Caches With Wrong Coordinates

[+NilsK]

Nothing bad about a nice series of caches for collecting hints ... finding the final cache is always a pleasure. But is it possible to have a flag for all those "these are not the real cache coordinates", so I can avoid getting them in my pocket query?

 

I just hate it when I see a cache on my map, go close to it and after finding a parking spot read the description to find out there is no cache here at all. I often go caching alone and driving and reading cache descriptions at the same time seems a bad idea.

 

I have four ideas for that problem:

 

(a) have a database flag for those caches, so they can easily be filtered out

 

( have specific coordinates for these caches (0N, 0E for example ... I doubt there will ever be a real cache).

 

© define a new cache type "final of a series" for them, which again makes them easy to filter out.

 

(d) Make these caches "mystery caches" and do not approve them, when they have another type - this again allows easy filtering

 

All ways allow them to still be there but make them go away from the waypoints in the GPS, where they do not make sense anyway.

 

Just my $.02

 

Nils

[+CYBret]

Ummmmmmm......

 

If people would make proper use of the Mystery/Puzzle cache designation it would call attention to the cache not being a straight-forward "come to these coordinates" find.

 

Of course, that also means that the rest of us have to pay attention to the big ol' question mark.

 

Bret

[+CompuCash]

it also helps to read the descriptions first - no?

[tlg]

I mentioned a similar problem a few days ago; I was seeing multi-caches listed as traditional caches and since I don't always read the description I was stratching my head quite a lot.

 

I was thinking that maybe something could be included in the approval process; perhaps a quick "is the cache type accurate" box for the approver to check.

[+NilsK]

Reading the Description sure shows it. But it gets quite annoying, when you are driving and see you have some time left, see a cache on your map, drive there and when you stop find out there is not cache.

 

Also I had the case, where I was in an area, that somehow seems to be series-final-wonderland. When I was hitting "show nearest caches" I had to read through five or so descriptions to find a cache that really existed. When there are so simple ways to mark these caches, why not do it? If anyone has a good reason why these can not be mystery caches or put into the system with coordinates 0N,0E that is okay. I just currently see no reason.

 

Nils

[+IV_Warrior]

When there are so simple ways to mark these caches, why not do it?

 

They SHOULD be listed as mystery caches. The problem isn't with the website, it's with cache owners not listing their caches properly.

 

If anyone has a good reason why these can not be mystery caches or put into the system with coordinates 0N,0E that is okay. I just currently see no reason.

 

Nils

 

If they were listed with totally bogus coords like that, nobody would find them. The coords need to be semi-accurate, for them to show up in searches for the right areas.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

Nothing bad about a nice series of caches for collecting hints ... finding the final cache is always a pleasure. But is it possible to have a flag for all those "these are not the real cache coordinates", so I can avoid getting them in my pocket query?

 

I just hate it when I see a cache on my map, go close to it and after finding a parking spot read the description to find out there is no cache here at all. I often go caching alone and driving and reading cache descriptions at the same time seems a bad idea.

 

I have four ideas for that problem:

 

(a) have a database flag for those caches, so they can easily be filtered out

 

( have specific coordinates for these caches (0N, 0E for example ... I doubt there will ever be a real cache).

 

© define a new cache type "final of a series" for them, which again makes them easy to filter out.

 

(d) Make these caches "mystery caches" and do not approve them, when they have another type - this again allows easy filtering

 

All ways allow them to still be there but make them go away from the waypoints in the GPS, where they do not make sense anyway.

 

Just my $.02

 

Nils

 

How about we just put the coordinates on the cache page and nothing else, that way you don't need to read anything. And we don't waste our time putting together an interesting description for other cachers.

 

John

[+Right Wing Wacko]

We have a local cacher that likes to put Parking Coordinates as the cache page coordinates and then puts the real coordinates in the cache description.

 

While I applaud her for wanting to provide parking coordinates, more than once i've been searching around what looked like a good place for the cache in the parking lot for one of her caches before realizing my mistake.

[+Hemlock]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

 

If you notice a cache listing that is mis-categorized, email your local reviewer and ask him/her to fix it. The cache type descriptions are pretty specific. A traditional cache is at the posted coords while a mystery cache is not at the posted coords.

 

Most of the caches I've changed were older ones that were created before the mystery cache type was defined.

[+beejay&esskay]

I contacted geocaching.com about a miscategorized mystery cache. On Tuesday (this is Saturday) they said they corrected it. I don't see the correction yet.

 

How long should it take?

[+Jared_and_Tanis]

Sounds like you need to filter your finds in your PQ. Filter out multicaches, mystery caches, and anything else that requires more than a "here's the exact location" mentality.

 

~Jared

[tlg]

Sounds like you need to filter your finds in your PQ. Filter out multicaches, mystery caches, and anything else that requires more than a "here's the exact location" mentality.

 

~Jared

I think you're missing his point; he's talking about those multi-caches and mystery caches that are incorrectly labelled as traditional. The PQ filters won't help there.

 

Of course I could be missing the point as well.

 

Follow Hemlock's advice; just make sure to mention in your email that the cache is not yours. They'll look at and change if it it needs changing. I know I sent them several waypoints for caches that were not labelled properly and they were changed within 24 hours.

 

I wonder if it would be possible to set something up in the cache submission/reviewing process to help eliminate these problems? Yes, I am repeating myself.

[CoyoteRed]

Sounds like you need to filter your finds in your PQ. Filter out multicaches, mystery caches, and anything else that requires more than a "here's the exact location" mentality.

 

~Jared

That's the problem. While filtering on traditionals, a puzzle is mis-categorized and you don't find out until you've hiked the 2 miles along loose-sand horse trails to find out you have to hike another half a mile to near another entrance to the area to find some clues.

 

"Read the discription" is not the answer as a lot of people like to "go with the flow." They see a traditional on the map, they show up at the location, and expect to find the cache at or near the listed coords.

[AJK]

Maybe the answer is to have some sort of checkbox on the cache submission page:

 

Are the coordinates given the coordinates of the final cache?

 

If this is checked then the submitter can use the "traditional" classification. Otherwise they have to choose mystery or multi.

 

There is no need for extra information - we just need cache submitters to use the correct designation. What's to say any other system will result in cache owners complying?

 

AJK

[+Jared_and_Tanis]

Is this something that admins can see? Maybe they should be able to delay approval until the cache type is changed to match the description of the cache. That would avoid having to add anything new to the page. Maybe they already do this, I don't know.

 

~Jared

[+Hemlock]

I don't think the problem is new caches. Most of those already do get fixed before approval. The bigger problem is the really old caches, from before the guidelines were well defined.

[+beejay&esskay]

I contacted geocaching.com about a miscategorized mystery cache. On Tuesday (this is Saturday) they said they corrected it. I don't see the correction yet.

 

How long should it take?

I contacted them again and the change has been made.

 

I'd say the best way to handle a cache that is misclassified as a traditional is to e-mail contact@Groundspeak.com with the information.

 

I intend to do that with any I'm aware of in my area.

[Jeremy]

We used to have situations where people changed traditional caches to virtuals when the cache went missing (instead of actually maintaining/replacing the cache). That was when we decided to keep people from changing the type after it was approved.

 

Yes, most of the time the reviewers make the change, but occasionally one slips through. If you see one you can contact us to fix it. Thanks!

 

(edited to clear up my grammar)

Edited July 27, 2004 by Jeremy

[+bluegrassfan]

If you have a problem with cache categories, why not contact the cache owners? I had a cache miscategorized and the cache webpage was edited without my knowledge. I believe I should have at been contacted first. However, my cache is a multi, but was changed to a mystery. So who was wrong, the Admin who changed it without notifying me, or me. Oh, yeah, and lets not forget the Admin who approved it in the first place, whom, I believe has hunted it. I kind of makes you wonder. Someone wanted to hunt my cache in question, but didn't bring the printout. I have over 100 no finds because I chose not to take the printouts, or left them at home or in my car. Now I use a PDA. There is no excuse for not reading the webpages for caches you plan to hunt. Many times I embed hints in the body and not in the HINT section. It is planned that way. Read or don't hunt.

 

There won't be any future problems with my caches after August 31. They will all be archived. If the hunters won't read the pages and can't be courteous enough to contact me when they have problems, then there isn't much point in having them out there. We have people in my area who want cache owners home and cell phone numbers so they can call to get help. Maybe we should publish those in the cache webpages, too. What other things can cache owners do to make level 3, 4, or 5 easier? My point is, if you won't read the cache webpages, maybe the caches owners should be available to lead the way, do all the counting, identifying of data, and any calculations and hand it out. With over 2000 caches within a 100 mile radius of my home, I don't see that happening. And besides, that won't allow the caches owners to find their own complaints about others caches webpages; they won't have the time to hunt.

 

In conclusion: PLEASE READ the pages. Contact the owners (don't ask for hints other that what are there). Give us a chance, first, before contacting an Admin. And why not contact an Admin in Your area instead of one who is hundreds of miles away?

 

I guess that's more that my 2 cents worth. Happy hunting.

 

Bluegrassfan

[+Mopar]

However, my cache is a multi, but was changed to a mystery.

So you are saying your cache was originally listed as a multi cache, and it was changed to mystery/puzzle?

 

It would probably help if you told everyone what cache it is so we could see what you are talking about.

[+strikeforce1]

Hey Mopar, here is the listed cache in question, I think! I'm not 100% sure if this is it, Eye Of The Beholder GCGA1C . It's the only mystery cache listed in his profile, but the header says a micro. Now I'm real confused. It sure looks like a puzzle cache to me. I would email the approver and ask for a reply as to the change. Remember to be nice , not hostile, it will go further . SF1

[+Mopar]

Hey Mopar, here is the listed cache in question, I think!  I'm not 100% sure if this is it,  Eye Of The Beholder  GCGA1C . It's the only mystery cache listed in his profile, but the header says a micro.  Now I'm real confused.  It sure looks like a puzzle cache to me. I would email the approver and ask for a reply as to the change. Remember to be nice , not hostile, it will go further .  SF1

looks like that's the one. I'm confused though. The cache owner said "my cache is a multi, but was changed to a mystery", but the admin that changed left a rather nice note on the cache page that says:

Hello,

Pardon the intrusion, but after receiving an inquiry from a geocacher in the area, I have edited your cache page to change the type from "traditional cache" to "unknown/mystery cache." This is because the cache is not located at the published coordinates.

 

Enjoy the cache!

 

If it was marked as a traditional, the hider was clearly wrong. If you looks at the cache type descriptions (link) there is no way that cache should be a traditional. A mystery/puzzle cache is:

The “catch-all” of cache types, this form of cache can involve complicated puzzles you will first need to solve to determine the coordinates. The only commonality of this cache type is that the coordinates listed are not of the actual cache location but a general reference point, such as a nearby parking location.

That seems to fit your cache description the best, in my opinion, but it could prob be listed as a multi too. Either way, it's NOT a traditional cache which it appears it was originally listed as.

Edited August 9, 2004 by Mopar

[+Mopar]

OK, since SF1 pointed out the cache, I guess I can make some comments based on what I see there.

 

If you have a problem with cache categories, why not contact the cache owners?  I had a cache miscategorized and the cache webpage was edited without my knowledge.  I believe I should have at been contacted first.

The cache owner can't change the type, only the admins can do that. The admin explained what he was doing and why in a note to your page, which is also emailed to you. So you were contacted and he did tell you it was changed, and why.

 

However, my cache is a multi, but was changed to a mystery.  So who was wrong, the Admin who changed it without notifying me, or me.  Oh, yeah, and lets not forget the Admin who approved it in the first place, whom, I believe has hunted it. 

Who was wrong? You. For listing it as a trditional in the first place, not a multi or puzzle. As for the admin who reviewed it, I'm sure s/he is human, not a robot, and occassionally makes mistakes. Some slip thru the cracks until people point them out.

 

I kind of makes you wonder.  Someone wanted to hunt my cache in question, but didn't bring the printout.  I have over 100 no finds because I chose not to take the printouts, or left them at home or in my car.  Now I use a PDA.  There is no excuse for not reading the webpages for caches you plan to hunt.  Many times I embed hints in the body and not in the HINT section.  It is planned that way.  Read or don't hunt.

 

There won't be any future problems with my caches after August 31.  They will all be archived.  If the hunters won't read the pages and can't be courteous enough to contact me when they have problems, then there isn't much point in having them out there.  We have people in my area who want cache owners home and cell phone numbers so they can call to get help.  Maybe we should publish those in the cache webpages, too.  What other things can cache owners do to make level 3, 4, or 5 easier?  My point is, if you won't read the cache webpages, maybe the caches owners should be available to lead the way, do all the counting, identifying of data, and any calculations and hand it out.  With over 2000 caches within a 100 mile radius of my home, I don't see that happening.  And besides, that won't allow the caches owners to find their own complaints about others caches webpages; they won't have the time to hunt.

 

In conclusion:  PLEASE READ the pages.  Contact the owners (don't ask for hints other that what are there).  Give us a chance, first, before contacting an Admin.  And why not contact an Admin in Your area instead of one who is hundreds of miles away?

Several times there you say the person who reported it had no printout and didn't read the cache page. You also ask that the cachers contact the hider first with a problem.

How do you know who reported it? And, more importantly, looks like someone DID contact you, via the cache logs, 3 months ago, and you ignored it.

[robertlipe]

There's been a lot of confusion with this. Despite having to check the billion page long definition every time you edit a cache page, I don't think the word has really sunk in and there are a LOT of caches that are miscategorized. (I had one of my own that was miscategorized and I got my chops busted over it which is what made me go back and revisit the current rules.)

 

By my understanding, If cachetype == traditional, the coordindates typed in the coord box must be the location of a logbook. If it's unlikely that someone could sign the logbook from only those coordinates, it's not a traditional. The lines between special, letterbox, and multi aren't entirely clear, but the intention of "traditional" does seem clear to me: given only the lat, the long, and a suitable dose of Mojo, you should be able to complete the cache.

 

The site has historically done an uncomprehensive job of distinguishing *container* type from *hunt* type and perhaps I'm the least experienced user of the site, but in my mind, a lot of the lines remain fuzzy....

[+*gln]

snip ...

 

Most of the caches I've changed were older ones that were created before the mystery cache type was defined.

BINGO!! Or because the reviewer didnt catch it the 1st time around. :-)

 

I think I need to go change some caches now.

 

glenn