+Team Teuton Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Just saw this, thought some of you Geocoiners may be interested... Ebay Auction # 4131926678 Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 My sculpey one didn't make the cut. Quote Link to comment
+JMBella Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 That's pretty cool. Something tells me this thread will be shut very soon. Quote Link to comment
blocko1000 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I wonder when someone will auction off one of my cache cards I leave in the caches? Quote Link to comment
+Midway Cafe Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 There is little copy in the description on these Geocoins. What is the source? It seems to me that any that are trackable such as the USA Geocoin are the property of the original purchaser. If these were taken from a cache while they were on a mission then legal problems could be in the works. I would ask a few questions before bidding, peoples interests change over time and this may be their personal collection of traded/purchased items. Better safe than sorry. MC Quote Link to comment
CoyoteRed Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 What's next, using Ebay to ransom TBs? Quote Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 What's next, using Ebay to ransom TBs? Hmmmm....... Quote Link to comment
+cache_us_if_you_can Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 What's next, using Ebay to ransom TBs? Hmmmm....... Sparky, leave Waldo's cousin alone Quote Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 What's next, using Ebay to ransom TBs? Hmmmm....... Sparky, leave Waldo's cousin alone Quote Link to comment
+Johnnie Stalkers Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 What's next, using Ebay to ransom TBs? Brilliant! Quote Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 What's next, using Ebay to ransom TBs? Brilliant! Hmmm...wonder if I could hold a cacher for ransom on eBay? Hey, Johnny, wanna get kidnapped? Quote Link to comment
+SixDogTeam Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Bad pic, but they look more like sig items to me... Quote Link to comment
+Johnnie Stalkers Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 What's next, using Ebay to ransom TBs? Brilliant! Hmmm...wonder if I could hold a cacher for ransom on eBay? Hey, Johnny, wanna get kidnapped? Sure. Sounds like a good time. Quote Link to comment
Find Now, Log Later? Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 (edited) What's next, using Ebay to ransom TBs? HaHa! What a GREAT idea! One could also use eBay to help "move along" traveling caches. Edited May 17, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot Quote Link to comment
+bons Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Bad pic, but they look more like sig items to me... Top row. left to right: ? , USA geocoin , ? , Canada Geocoin , Canada Geocoin Bottom row left to right: ? , Texas geocoin ? , Canada Geocoin All the above linked items are trackable as travellers. I have no way of knowing if they are travellers, but the possibilty exists. The USA geocoin is trackable on geocaching.com. The Canada and Texas coins are trackable on their own site. Quote Link to comment
+olepaint & co Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Top row. left to right:? , USA geocoin , ? , Canada Geocoin , Canada Geocoin Bottom row left to right: ? , Texas geocoin ? , Canada Geocoin Don't know for sure but the wooden coin in the bottom row with the compass rose stamped on it looks exactly like one of ours. The only way to know for sure would be if the reverse side was shown. Not sure how it would have got into the hands of someone in Florida if it is ours but I am sure that I don't like it being sold on eBay. However, once it is out of our hands there is really nothing I can do to prevent it being sold anywhere. Kind of like a signed painting being sold. The artist may not like it that it wound up on eBay but it is no longer the artists property. Quote Link to comment
+Kitch Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Basically it IS the same thing as selling stolen TB's on Ebay. But i'm not helping the issue anymore by doing a bumb on this thread again. All I did is promote the sale. Quote Link to comment
+Team Tigger International Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 (edited) As much as I'd hate to put money in this guy's pocket, maybe one of the geocaching groups could pony up the cash, and get these trackables back in the system. I don't have a problem with ppl collecting geocoins, but if you're looking to clean out your collection, just put them in the nearest cache. Wulf (need a speel chequer) Edited May 17, 2004 by Team Tigger International Quote Link to comment
+thestosh Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 If they are bid on, that sets a president and others will think they can sell them on ebay. If I bought some coins and resold them I think that would be fine. I don't think selling other people's coins is cool. I think selling a pile of signature items is probably fine if you traded fairly for them and didn't just go raid a bunch of caches. Either way, it encourages people to clean out caches and sell the contents on ebay. Quote Link to comment
+Team DEMP Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Someone can just keep running up the min bid to $1,000,000 and no one will ever be able to actually pay for them. If they were retrieved as non-trade items, then the person selling them, assuming they aren't his originally, is not the owner of the items. It would be like putting a rental car up for sale on eBay! Quote Link to comment
+Kitch Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Someone can just keep running up the min bid to $1,000,000 and no one will ever be able to actually pay for them. Doesnt it just go back to the last high bidder then?? oh crap more advertising for this person... Quote Link to comment
+thestosh Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I emailed the seller with a link to this thread. Hopefully they can clarify their auction and (if appropriate) change or remove the auction. Quote Link to comment
+magking1971 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Hmmm, A new source of income! Now I have a reason to go Caching today! . . . . . . . Yes, I am joking.. That is wrong, selling other peoples property. Quote Link to comment
+Team DEMP Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Someone can just keep running up the min bid to $1,000,000 and no one will ever be able to actually pay for them. Doesnt it just go back to the last high bidder then?? And the winner, with a $3.4M final bid for stolen merchandise with a value of approximately $30 is ... ????? Wonder who was FTB (First to Bid) Quote Link to comment
Find Now, Log Later? Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 (edited) Someone can just keep running up the min bid to $1,000,000 and no one will ever be able to actually pay for them. If they were retrieved as non-trade items, then the person selling them, assuming they aren't his originally, is not the owner of the items. It would be like putting a rental car up for sale on eBay! My impression is that the cited auction is for a collection. The purchaser of the collection can do with it whatever they choose. (Keep it or recirculate it in whole or in part.) I don't think a person who left a geocoin or TB (or any other item) at a cache would be able to prove legal ownership of such an item, especially if the last person to retrieve it was able to demonstrate that s/he traded at least evenly for the item. The auction is in no way similar to putting a rental car up for sale on eBay. Edited May 17, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 uhhhh, OK then. Just don't bother asking to borrow my car. Quote Link to comment
Find Now, Log Later? Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 uhhhh, OK then. Just don't bother asking to borrow my car. I'm sure most lawyers aren't so naive as to lend out their cars without a signed contract far more prohibitive than a mere rental car contract. Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Correct. Nor to release travel bugs in North Jersey. Quote Link to comment
+Team DEMP Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I don't think the person who dropped a geocoin or TB (or any other item) into a cache would be able to claim legal ownership of such an item, especially if the person who retrieved it was able to demonstrate that s/he traded at least evenly for the item. The auction is in no way similar to putting a rental car up for sale on eBay. Using that same logic, then if I left $6 (plus estimated value of the cache contents) on the same spot, I could trade and sell on eBay the entire cache container and contents? What about the log book - could I leave the $0.50 it cost for the log book as a "trade" and take the log book? I think there are accepted trade items, accepted list of items that remain, and for TB & Geocoins an understanding that they are owned by the original placer and moved (for fun) to other caches. But I'm not a lawyer (but my brother is and I have to wonder if my parents are disappointed in me ) and I've seen stupider things argued here and in the courts, so who knows! Quote Link to comment
Find Now, Log Later? Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 (edited) Using that same logic, then if I left $6 (plus estimated value of the cache contents) on the same spot, I could trade and sell on eBay the entire cache container and contents? Trade items in caches are intended to be traded; the entire cache is (usually) not. I think there are accepted trade items, accepted list of items that remain, and for TB & Geocoins an understanding that they are owned by the original placer and moved (for fun) to other caches. I tend to agree with that. However, I don't know that such an understanding existed with those particular coins. Do you? It has not been established that the person auctioning the coins acted improperly in any way. Edited May 17, 2004 by Bassoon Pilot Quote Link to comment
+Team DEMP Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 However, I don't know that such an understanding existed with those particular coins. Do you? It has not been established that the person auctioning the coins acted improperly in any way. The eBay item says they were collected from all over the US. My guess is he acquired them through finding them in caches. Yes, we're assuming he's guilty which isn't the best assumption, but hey, if he wasn't what would we talk about Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Just because they are trackable doesn't mean that owner intended for them to be tracked. When I'm rich enough for my own coins they will be signature items and I have no intention whatsoever of tracking them. They are for people to take and trade for. If they end up on eBay, oh well. I sure won't buy them back. Quote Link to comment
CoyoteRed Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Don't assume that coins aren't meant to be travelers. I'd say let the person holding the auction show that these coins are not supposed to be travelers. If they are, then he shouldn't be selling them as he doesn't own them. Personally, I think an email in to eBay is in order to determine if he the rightful owner of the items. Right now, I'd say it's questionable. Quote Link to comment
+Doc-Dean Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 ... image deleted ... Look for the wet cat a few posts up. Can I lower the bid to $10.75?? Quote Link to comment
+Mopar Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Ditto what CR said. If we were talking about Travel Bugs, that's one thing. They are intended to move from cache to cache, and the purchaser retains ownership. GeoCoins are different. Just because they CAN be tracked, doesn't mean every owner intends every coin to be treated as a TB. The webpage for the CA geocoins says: Geocoins are custom minted and individually numbered coins that are designed to provide geocachers with a collectable, tradable and trackable cache items that are unique to geocaching worldwide, but with a Canadian flair. <SNIP> Whether kept as a memento of a memorable cache hunt or left as an irresistible cache trade item for a fellow cacher, a CA geocoin is the perfect treasure. The TX Geocoin site says the same thing. From the California Geocoin page: Q: If I find a California Geocoin in a cache, can I keep it or do I need to move it onto another cache like a Travel Bug? A: The decision to "Keep" or "Move On" a particular Geocoin will be up to the original owner of the Geocoin. On the tracking site, the original owner of the Geocoin will have choice to indicate that their Geocoin can be "Kept" or "Move On". Also, each Geocoin will be in a mini zip lock bag. There will be a sticker on the bag that will indicate "This Geocoin may be kept, but still please track it at: www.calif.geocoin.net" or "Please move this Geocoin to another cache (like you would a Travel Bug). This Geocoin can be tracked at this site. I personally have several geocoins that were given to me as gifts, or left as FTF prizes. My Moun10Bike geocoin is a memento of an awesome weekend of caching with him, I have no intention of leaving it in a cache, nor did he intend me to do so when I got it. (I also wouldn't auction it off on ebay) Quote Link to comment
+carleenp Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Outside of the arguments about ownership and whether the coins should travel etc, my concern is that it just seems wrong. I would hate to see one of my signature items sold on ebay when I inteded it to be kept or put in caches. Sure, I suppose someone could pick one up and do whatever he or she wanted with it, but it just seems tacky to me. Quote Link to comment
+Doc-Dean Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 If it is written somewhere in the rules/guidelines that its illegal (?) to sell the item for a profit, you may have a leg to stand on with complaining to Ebay and having the auction pulled. Does this solve the problem, I doubt it... Quote Link to comment
+The Leprechauns Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Thanks for the legal analysis, Doc-Dean. Hey Carleen... I have an angioplasty scheduled in OR 3 for 4:00 p.m. Are you available to assist? Quote Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Of course, I suppose they could all have been purchased by the seller, and there's the possibility that all the sig items were made by the seller, also. I've seen people in my area change sig items more often than they change their underwear. This is merely a possibility that apparently is being overlooked by the mob mentality here. Quote Link to comment
+Johnnie Stalkers Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 ........by the mob mentality here. BURN HER! CROWD: Burn her! Burn her! Burn her! Burn! Burn!... BEDEVERE: Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science? ARTHUR: I am Arthur, King of the Britons. BEDEVERE: My liege! Quote Link to comment
+Kitch Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Ditto what CR said. If we were talking about Travel Bugs, that's one thing. They are intended to move from cache to cache, and the purchaser retains ownership. SO what you are saying is that everybody that is going to place a "jeep TB" on their desk is really a small JEEP owned and stolen from JEEP?? I see an awful lot of small time crooks coming up.... Quote Link to comment
Pto Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 SO what you are saying is that everybody that is going to place a "jeep TB" on their desk is really a small JEEP owned and stolen from JEEP?? They [TBs] are intended to move from cache to cache A thief is a thief is a thief, right Quote Link to comment
+Kitch Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I'm sure many people won't look at it as stealing.... Quote Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Ok, so if the coins are actually owned by others, what if another cacher bought them (basically paid ransom) and put them back into circulation? It wouldn't make what he's doing right, but at least it would free them again. That is, of course, assuming that they don't belong to the person selling them. Quote Link to comment
+Team Tigger International Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 someone brought up the Jeep TBs. I wonder how many of them will end up on epay. Wulf Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Thanks for the legal analysis, Doc-Dean. Hey Carleen... I have an angioplasty scheduled in OR 3 for 4:00 p.m. Are you available to assist? Oh but that's the beauty of the law. We are all subject to it and ignorance is no excuse. That means that though we are barred from practicing it, we are obligated to try and understand it. So is helping someone else understand the quagmire practicing? Quote Link to comment
+norbu Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 I just can't fathom spending $20+ for a collection of sig items, two of which are from the same person, just different colors.... Quote Link to comment
Find Now, Log Later? Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Outside of the arguments about ownership and whether the coins should travel etc, my concern is that it just seems wrong. I would hate to see one of my signature items sold on ebay when I inteded it to be kept or put in caches. Sure, I suppose someone could pick one up and do whatever he or she wanted with it, but it just seems tacky to me. That's why people should attempt to remain as objective as possible when considering issues like this, especially when few facts are known. What "seems wrong" or "tacky" to one set of people may very well seem perfectly "okie-dokie" to another set. And it is entirely plausible that neither set is necessarily "in the right" (or "in the wrong.") Quote Link to comment
+carleenp Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Outside of the arguments about ownership and whether the coins should travel etc, my concern is that it just seems wrong. I would hate to see one of my signature items sold on ebay when I inteded it to be kept or put in caches. Sure, I suppose someone could pick one up and do whatever he or she wanted with it, but it just seems tacky to me. That's why people should attempt to remain as objective as possible when considering issues like this, especially when few facts are known. What "seems wrong" or "tacky" to one set of people may very well seem perfectly "okie-dokie" to another set. And it is entirely plausible that neither set is necessarily "in the right" (or "in the wrong.") You are correct that all the facts are not known. Still, it seems tacky to me and I would find it tacky even if the coins were not intended to travel. I would rather see them put in caches. Others might not not view it that way. I'm OK with that. Quote Link to comment
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