Ftf Equalization

December 8, 2003

Hypothetical premise: Suppose, hypothetically, that there is a (purely hypothetical) cacher in your 'hood who (hypothetically, of course) gets all the FTFs. :lol:

Someone whose commute takes him near every part of the state at exactly those times when a new cache is announced.

Suppose you wanted to let others get one or two FTFs at some time in their lives.

Could you think of anything to level the playing field?

Now, could you think of anything legal to level the playing field?

5.9k · December 8, 2003

Figure out where his cable dsl goes into his house and pin the coax.

December 8, 2003

1. Take away his glasses

2. Move to a different 'hood.

December 8, 2003

Got the answer... I placed a cache last week that is designed to be an easy find, but a difficult process of getting there. It's going to take a dedicated cacher some time to decrypt the clues, allowing more time for new cachers to beat them to it.

FTFers seem to want to spend an hour caching or driving to a cache instead of an hour decoding the stuff they need to get the coordinates. It's one thing to have a multi with virtuals and another entirely to make the cacher get their brain around something complicated, like Hexadecimal to Decimal Conversion and CypherText Encryption.

My example: The Hex

I just have a feeling that I'm going to be answering a lot of questions.

December 8, 2003

Bzzzzt! Crim's is vandalism, BeeGees' first is petty theft, at best.

As for BeeGees' second, this hypothetical person would just expand his range, I'm sure.

Any sort of hides that would level the FTF playing firld?

5.9k · December 8, 2003

Well then.

Try this, rig the container to blast out pepperspray in the face of the first person to open the container. The second person to open the container will be the first finder.

The sprayed person will be a lot more hesitant to be the FTF next time.

December 8, 2003

My example: The Hex

Is that 546 supposed to be there?

December 8, 2003

OK, Crim now leads the pack with Assault and Battery.

BeeGees in second with Petty Theft.

Bjorn74 is still benign...

December 8, 2003

Okay, how about this....

1) People have to answer a number of questions and submit the answers online, along with their email address.

2) You have an automated system that 'marks' the answers, say on Fridays at noon, and emails the results to those that have submitted their answer sheets. Those with a perfect score get the final coords. Those with wrong answers are invited to resubmit for the following weeks 'exam'.

This way, everyone attempting the cache gets the coords at the same known time.

You could call it the 'Geocaching Certification Exam'.

If you key the tests on email address, people can resubmit as many times as they like to correct their answer sheets, but only one email is sent out per respondent.

1.1k · December 8, 2003

FTFers seem to want to spend an hour caching or driving to a cache instead of an hour decoding the stuff they need to get the coordinates.

I do believe this depends, entirely, on where you live.

There are a mess of puzzle caches in the Bellevue/Redmond area and they have the same race for FTF on those as they do for trad's. It took five days for someone to find Cryptonomicon. Which is terribly fun and a wee bit time consuming to decrypt.

I'm about 2.5h away from that one and am waiting for the opportunity to pass through the area to search for it...

While I wouldn't exactly say I'm a FTF hound, it is kind of fun to upset the locals in a community about an hour away by getting the FTF's in their own backyards. They've got at least an hour on us, and sometimes even a day or two depending on the weather, and they're still not getting them (and cranky about it when we do!)

Take that. And THAT!

-=-

michelle

2.1k · December 8, 2003

Easy....wait for "he of the quick FTF" to hide a cache.

Someone else will be the FTF on it. I promise.

5.9k · December 8, 2003

Name it, "A Fun and Easy Cache For Gays"

December 8, 2003

Is that 546 supposed to be there?

Yeah, cruel, isn't it? There is at least one easy way to do the cypher when you have it in a copyable format, so I don't feel real bad. I think it's apparent that you need to get one of the numbers toward the end...

1.4k · December 8, 2003

Criminal wrote:
Name it, "A Fun and Easy Cache For Gays"

I'm certain if I wrote that, that I'd be presented with at least a nice shiny new 10% on to my warn meter and an accompanying condescending comment.

*****

5.9k · December 8, 2003

Criminal wrote:
Name it, "A Fun and Easy Cache For Gays"

I'm certain if I wrote that, that I'd be presented with at least a nice shiny new 10% on to my warn meter and an accompanying condescending comment.

*****

It wasn't directed at anyone.

It wasn't insulting to anyone, even a gay anyone.

It's just reality the gayness is something that is thought of with scorn. I didn’t make it so.

December 8, 2003

There are a mess of puzzle caches in the Bellevue/Redmond area and they have the same race for FTF on those as they do for trad's.

Well, yeah. You're right. There will inevitably be a race for the FTF, but I think you get a more level playing field on the tough caches. Here in Columbus, I think it's more likely that you'll get some team work between prolific cachers and newbies just to get more neurons on it. Plus, it really doesn't matter if it takes the FTFer a week to find the cache. That's long enough for anyone to do it in the same period in most cases, right?

I want someone to claim The Hex soon just so I can make sure it's do-able. I don't really care who gets it first as long as they had to work to get it.

December 8, 2003

Okay, how about this....

1) People have to answer a number of questions and submit the answers online, along with their email address.

2) You have an automated system that 'marks' the answers, say on Fridays at noon, and emails the results to those that have submitted their answer sheets. Those with a perfect score get the final coords. Those with wrong answers are invited to resubmit for the following weeks 'exam'.

Appears that everyone simply glazed over this idea. Looks pretty creative. Thanks "West Coast Explorers; I'm gonna work on it.

December 8, 2003

Caveat: Sock puppet email accounts. I'd suggest to limit the number of quizzes that get graded per week.

December 8, 2003

It would be a shame for me to get a Warn %, considering my relative few post, but here is what I would try, if I were bothered by FTF hogs.

A 2 stage Multi with the 1'st stage being a very small micro, very well hidden. If I am not mistaken a cahce owner can alter the original waypoint by a limited distance to recover from errors when placing a cache. I would have my coords purposefully off by the maximum allowable distance, AND I WOULD WARN OF THIS IN THE CACHE LISTING. I would state thate at time=X, and Day=X, I would correct the 1'st waypoint online. This would at least give more time for people to become aware of a new cache, and fix the starting time for anyone interested enough to check back.

Of course I suspect such a cache might get caught up in the approval process.

5.9k · December 8, 2003

On a serious note, this worked for me. It stumped a few folks.

December 8, 2003

I would have my coords purposefully off by the maximum allowable distance, AND I WOULD WARN OF THIS IN THE CACHE LISTING.

the only flaw with your plan is that your starting coordinates would have to be "spot-on" perfect, or you can't accurately predict the distance you are away from the coordinates you give.

December 8, 2003

1 - If you were to compile an email distribution list of all of the more active cachers in your area, which you can probably glean from log listings on your local caches, you can email everyone on the distribution list, except the cacher in question, with the new cache listing. Once it has been found, you could submit it to GC for listing on the site.

1a - Send the cache listing only to your caching buddies and list it after one of them has found it.

2 - If the person in question is not known to frequent the other listing sites, you could list it on NC first, until it is found, then list it on GC.

3 - You could send the cacher in question a polite email asking him not to seek the cache until it has been found by someone else. If he does anyway, you could delete his log entry.

_________

Gorak

Geo 33E 34

December 8, 2003

3 - You could send the cacher in question a polite email asking him not to seek the cache until it has been found by someone else. If he does anyway, you could delete his log entry.

_________

Gorak

We Have A Winner

Thank You to all other participants but this is all that it really takes. As cache hiders we do have the final say. You could even go a step further and post a note on the cache page that cacher "XYZ" is not the first to find so the FTF is still up for grabs.

Edited December 8, 2003 by WCoaster

38.2k · December 8, 2003

Easy, go to Bassoonpilots house, slash his tires and put Crazy Glue in his car door locks.

1.4k · December 8, 2003

Gorak wrote:
3 - You could send the cacher in question a polite email asking him not to seek the cache until it has been found by someone else. If he does anyway, you could delete his log entry.

I don't think you could reasonably delete the log and stay within the rules of the site. As has been stated by the administration of this site, excluding someone from a cache hunt is not permitted.

But it might be OK to send the cacher a note asking him to acknowledge that there are new people who might wish to get a First to Find once in a while and that it would be a nice courtesy to allow at least a little time to give a newcomer a chance at finding the cache.

But then again, you could just wait anxiously at your computer hitting the refresh button over and over and over again until that new cache pops up. When it does become available you could run out immediately and possibly beat the hypothetical cacher to the cache, get the FTF, and the satisfaction of knowing that you beat his skinny little rear-end.

*****

GEO 35 47

2.6k · December 8, 2003

Before the cache is approved email certain cachers the coords and explain why your doing it.

FTF gets into your blood, I know from first hand experience its a lot of fun to beat out another cacher in the area.

Yeah Yeah Yeah I know its not a competition

1.4k · December 8, 2003

get to know the guy, find out their weaknesses and design a cache to exploit them. Everyone has their weaknesses. Mine is math. Throw math into a cache and I'll probably never find it... much less be FTF.

3.9k · December 8, 2003

I love FTF's. I know it's not supposed to be a competition... BUT IT IS! I am one of those people that, if it's at all possible, will run out to grab a FTF as soon as it comes up. Now I don't grab every one, but I wish I could. If someone emailed me and asked if I could WAIT for another person to grab it first.... ... I'd say ya know what I'll think about it. Then I would run out, grab the cache and log: I thought about it, and No. Of coarse it's only fun because there are a few players around here that like to run out and be the FTF. If I ran out as soon as it came up got the FTF, did a little FTF dance and bragged about it, and the 2nd to find got there a week later because nobode gives a dadgum about FTF, well that would just be plain silly.

December 8, 2003

Hypothetical premise: Suppose, hypothetically, that there is a (purely hypothetical) cacher in your 'hood who (hypothetically, of course) gets all the FTFs.

Someone whose commute takes him near every part of the state at exactly those times when a new cache is announced.

Suppose you wanted to let others get one or two FTFs at some time in their lives.

Could you think of anything to level the playing field?

Now, could you think of anything legal to level the playing field?

well, since hypothetically, there are quite a few NJ cachers who share the FTF honors, it would hypothetically be hard to design a hypothetical cache that any of the purely hypothetically typical FTFer couldnt log and the other hypothetical slowpokes could.

Edited December 8, 2003 by NJ Admin

1.4k · December 8, 2003

WCoaster wrote:
As cache hiders we do have the final say. You could even go a step further and post a note on the cache page that cacher "XYZ" is not the first to find so the FTF is still up for grabs.

You'll need to see the past thread titled Opinions wanted... Is a reserved FTF cheesy or not? for the discussion regarding limiting the reserving of who can or cannot log a First to Find.

In that thread Hydee wrote:

Would a cache that openly excludes one user be posted, I doubt it. I see excluding one user or a group of users as mean-spirited and very different that reserving the FTF to honor one member.

Seems as the cache owner, you don't have the final say.

*****

2.3k · December 8, 2003

WCoaster wrote:
As cache hiders we do have the final say. You could even go a step further and post a note on the cache page that cacher "XYZ" is not the first to find so the FTF is still up for grabs.

You'll need to see the past thread titled Opinions wanted... Is a reserved FTF cheesy or not? for the discussion regarding limiting the reserving of who can or cannot log a First to Find.

In that thread Hydee wrote:

Would a cache that openly excludes one user be posted, I doubt it. I see excluding one user or a group of users as mean-spirited and very different that reserving the FTF to honor one member.

Seems as the cache owner, you don't have the final say.

*****

As a cache owner you always have the final say. Geocaching.com is a listing service. You, as the owner, are free to list your cache with any or all the services that will accept your cache. If you chose to list with a service then you choose to abide by their guidelines.

1.4k · December 8, 2003

CO Admin wrote:
As a cache owner you always have the final say. Geocaching.com is a listing service. You, as the owner, are free to list your cache with any or all the services that will accept your cache. If you chose to list with a service then you choose to abide by their guidelines.

I suppose that is true. What I should have said then is "Seems as the cache owner listing a cache on this site, you don't have the final say."

*****

Geo: 20 95N

December 8, 2003

Reserved FTFs are about as gruyeresque as claiming a find on your own hide.

So is asking people to hold off from getting FTF if they can.

December 8, 2003

As a cache owner you always have the final say. Geocaching.com is a listing service. You, as the owner, are free to list your cache with any or all the services that will accept your cache. If you chose to list with a service then you choose to abide by their guidelines.

After a quick review of Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines, I seen nothing in The Guidelines that prohibits the exclusion of a specific person or group from either seeking or being FTF for the cache. Based on The Guidelines only, it appears that doing such does not violate The Guidelines in any way. If the cache is not approved, then it would not be because it contravenes The Guidelines, but because The Approver made up his own "rule".

_________

Gorak

Geo 35 48 95X

December 8, 2003

The best way to get FTF on caches is to get comfortable with night caching. A cache get's approved at, say, 11pm - go for it then.

also, this ftf'r. can you check and see that he is physically logging the cache? perhaps you can catch something going on there...

2k · December 8, 2003

What you need is a real fanatic. I have two FTF's, and we have some (one) real avid FTF'ers. How did I snag mine? One I got because I found it on a cache search before I left for work and took "lunch" at 8:30 am. The other I got because I read the log at 10:00pm, mrs rusty said no-way was I going out to the top of a mountain in the middle of the night, so I got up at 4:30am. Drove across the valley in a topless four by four in the freezing cold then ramboed up a nasty dirt road to avoid the time consuming hike. I found the cache about 1/2 hour before the local FTF king. See all it takes is a little dedication. The frontal lobotmy probably helped too.

December 8, 2003

well, since hypothetically, there are quite a few NJ cachers who share the FTF honors, it would hypothetically be hard to design a hypothetical cache that any of the purely hypothetically typical FTFer couldnt log and the other hypothetical slowpokes could.

Stand by.

Edited December 8, 2003 by Team Og Rof A Klaw

December 8, 2003

Find out what that person is not an expert at, and incorporate that skill in your cache. Our local frequent FTFer is not as fond of math as some, so a math puzzle will earn someone else an FTF.

December 8, 2003

Now, hypothetically, suppose that you found out that the hypothetical supercacher and his kid have placed two (hypothetical) brand-new ones today within striking distance?

Edited December 8, 2003 by Team Og Rof A Klaw

1.4k · December 8, 2003

The best way to get FTF on caches is to get comfortable with night caching. A cache get's approved at, say, 11pm - go for it then.

That works great if the cache comes available in the evening or outside work hours. I really like night caching -- it takes some of the gloom out of our darker winters. There has been occasion when I've left the house during sub-daylight hours to get a new cache if I happen to see it come available -- especially if it's close to home.

*****

Geo 37

1.3k · December 8, 2003

After hunting one of the Magellan caches, and clicking the refresh button repeatedly for well over 24 hours, I believe there is a need for a new feature.

If individual cachers were allowed control over when the coordinates, and maps for a given cache are released, it could add an exiting edge to the game. The cache page will already be posted, people will have time to prepare, clues could be added gradually, leading up to the release of coords.

I have no idea how difficult adding such a feature would be, but it would be appreciated by many, on both sides of the cache page.

December 8, 2003

FTFers seem to want to spend an hour caching or driving to a cache instead of an hour decoding the stuff they need to get the coordinates. It's one thing to have a multi with virtuals and another entirely to make the cacher get their brain around something complicated, like Hexadecimal to Decimal Conversion and CypherText Encryption.

Yeah, you aren't kidding. But I'm working on your code. Oh, yes. And very soon, I will have it. And when I go on the hunt, I will be able to say:

"dadgum it! I messed up the conversion...546, 546, 546, 546"

After that, I imagine my speech will dissolve into complete incoherence, and I'll have to be dragged away to my padded cell.

December 9, 2003

Hypothetical premise: Suppose, hypothetically, that there is a (purely hypothetical) cacher in your 'hood who (hypothetically, of course) gets all the FTFs.

Someone whose commute takes him near every part of the state at exactly those times when a new cache is announced.

Suppose you wanted to let others get one or two FTFs at some time in their lives.

Could you think of anything to level the playing field?

Now, could you think of anything legal to level the playing field?

It sounds like the playing field is already level and you want to make it unlevel against this guy. If he works that hard to get FTF glory, then he deserves it.

Just my $0.02

December 9, 2003

Can someone explain what the joy of being FTF would be if it wasn't truly a FTF?

If I have advance notice of a cache that someone placed, and it allows me to be FTF, what is the point? Why not just start making up caches within a small group of people, and find each others caches before posting them?

We in MA have some very prolific cachers, and it's a battle between a few to be the FTF. So be it - we all know that Walden Run, Blackstone Val and Feathers will be hot on the trail of your cache.

To me that's pretty cool - knowing that 3 people will likely hit your cache the same day or next day that it's posted. Instant gratification for the placer!

If people *really* want to be a FTF, they'll get rabid like the others, and join in the hunt. I for one, just for fun have signed up with the skydivers alert, so I can see what's been put out there in my area. I don't have a FTF yet, but I'm working on it.

If you're worried about the FTF prize always going to the same person, then you could have the option - as I did on my 2nd cache placed - of having a FTF prize, and then a few 'early finders' surprizes. This took care of the issue of FTF and the others that almost got a FTF.

Another option would be to make two or three prizes, and have the 2nd or 3rd one be the best prize of the lot - just have them wrapped with the info on the outside.

I like the FTF to be a true FTF and not an artificially concocted result.

December 9, 2003

I started geocaching just 9 days ago. I have 8 finds and 2 are FTF's. I have seen about 6 more I could have driven 30 min. to and got more FTF. but I left them for others while I hone My skills. I am unemployed and have lots of time. There was one only about 50 or 60 mile from me that went for over a year till someone found it ! They are still the only ones that have found it. It is called 10peak by slinger 91. He is good and I am looking forward to trying his, they are physically challenging.

This may also be a way to defeat that person that gets all the FTF's make real physical!

December 9, 2003

You could use the technique that was used here: (read the first few logs)

10SNE1

Of course in the cache above, this was an honest mistake, but if you did it accidently 'on purpose' I bet you'd surprise the cacher who you are trying to slow down.

3.8k · December 9, 2003

The problem is easily answered.

On this cache the hypothetical purportrator (FTF),

was not intimidated in the least by the "cache guardian."

This is apparently a photo of the "guardian."

Perhaps if the cache owner had used this instead.

Queensland version of a cache guardian.

December 9, 2003

Around here, it seems that cachers figure they can slow me down (and do) by hiding a LOT of multi's. That way, I can only prepare data for the first stage. One of every six caches (16%) is MA is a multi. Compare that with Easyland (CA), where it is more like 6%.

-WR

December 9, 2003

Around here, it seems that cachers figure they can slow me down (and do) by hiding a LOT of multi's.

We're only trying to fulfill your signature line.

(By making you stronger, I mean. Certainly not by trying to KILL YOU.)

December 9, 2003

I'm surprised that no one has asked if this person might be an approver!

I worked at being FTF for weeks before I finally got my FTF on the way to work one morning. It was so SWEET!

Ftf Equalization

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