Strict Geocaching Talk

December 3, 2003

We all are customers of this site, whether it is explicit, by paying premium membership and purchasing products like hats, shirts, and travel bug tags, or implicit, by keeping the number of visitors to the site up, which helps bring adv. dollars to GC.com.

As a customer of the GC.com website, do you like the forums better now that there is a strict policy about being totally on subject and sticking only to talk about geocaching ?

My personal view is that the website has become boring, and one could affirm this by looking at the number of times I have logged on recently vs. about two months ago.

I hope this posting does not get shut down. I am not posting this question with any ill intent towards GC.com, but rather, am a less than 100% satisfied customer, wondering what other customers think. As a for-profit entity, I am suspect answers to this post could be valuable.

Thanks

Edited December 3, 2003 by hikemeister

1.3k · December 3, 2003

I'd like to see an off-topic unmoderated forum for anyone who wishes to boost their blood pressure to the point of cardiac arrest. But as for the rest of the forum, yeah. I think it's good that it is being moderated and kept on topic.

38.2k · December 3, 2003

My personal view is that the website has become boring, and one could affirm this by looking at the number of times I have logged on recently vs. about two months ago.

Maybe that's the point. Fewer bandwith problems .

8.4k · December 3, 2003

Most business owners respect the opinions of those who patronize their establishment on a daily basis. They are the ones who are loyal and keep the lights on and the overhead paid for.

Unfortunatly....but this has been done to death so I won't go there.

Cashew Nut made an excellent point in his "mind your own business" speech on another thread.

I go to as many events as I can. The main topic (when discussion turns to the forums) at the events, that I have been to since May, has not been the general hostile environment in these forums but .....you can guess the rest....I'll take cashew nut's advice.

OUT

Sn gans

1.3k · December 4, 2003

I'd like to ask a question. What do most of you think would happen if suddenly, TPTB decided to have a completely open, uncensored, unmoderated forum? If foul language, personal attacks, disrespectful posts about the admins, etc. were allowed, what would be the outcome? Would the forums quickly degenerate into a place where only a very few people visited, and the order of the day was belittleing and insulting people for their opinions?

A little of that goes on now, imagine if it were allowed to run rampant.

24.7k · December 4, 2003

If you deleted porn posts, spam, and not much else the forums would probably be a notch or two better than they are now.

Sometimes it's the police trying to break up the crowd that sparks a riot.

1.3k · December 4, 2003

Further, I think the biggest underlying gripe the anti-mod crowd has is that they are punished for personal attacks. If you get into a conversation, and you can't think of an intelligent reply that doesn't insult the people you are conversing with or about, an insult seems to be the immediate solution. If that kind of behavior was allowed to continue unchecked, you're likely to recieve a similar insult as a response. Be careful what you wish for.

December 4, 2003

I'd like to ask a question. What do most of you think would happen if suddenly, TPTB decided to have a completely open, uncensored, unmoderated forum? If foul language, personal attacks, disrespectful posts about the admins, etc. were allowed, what would be the outcome? Would the forums quickly degenerate into a place where only a very few people visited, and the order of the day was belittleing and insulting people for their opinions?
A little of that goes on now, imagine if it were allowed to run rampant.

I don't think that providing an extreme example like this, which clearly no one would advocate, is very helpful to the discussion. Obviously I was not talking about this kind of stuff. Please get real and consider posting a response about a more realistic scenario -- where geocachers like to periodically talk about baseball scores, favorite kinds of beer, etc.... not foul language, attacks (oops, sorry -- was this an attack -- only voicing concern about your post -- not you, or your right to post what you said)...

3.9k · December 4, 2003

Let me ask you this question. If Jeremy had never provided the fourms in the first place...would you still be unhappy?

Maybe that would be a solution...do away with the fourms. That way there is no off topic, no on topic..no topic at all.

The fourms for the most part have brought us some great things. Remember when you were a newbie? If you wanted answers to this game/sport, you came to the fourms for answers and advice. If you came in here today you would only find confusion and dissent.

These fourms were put here for us to discuss Geocaching and to help the newcomers to find answers. The poor people coming in today only find topics complaining about admins, moderators, approvers. Very good example we are all setting.

It's amazing how a few rebels can drag intelligent people down to their level. Then they sit back and laugh about it. These people could care less about Geocaching. As I've pointed out before. Do some research on the fourms and you will see who I'm talking about. They never post in a positive topic, or have anything positive to say.

These same people are driving away good cachers from these fourms by the hundreds, soon to be by the thousands if people don't wake up and realize that a few people have destroyed it for the rest of us.

Everyone wants to talk about their rights to freedom of speech being violated here. You have no rights here. You are on private property. Don't start a riot under the disguise of trying to protect rights. It's like walking into my house and telling me you have the right to say and do as you please. I don't know about the rest of you, but if someone did that in my house they would find themselves on their a** in the front yard wondering what hit them.

El Diablo

1.4k · December 4, 2003

hikemeister wrote:
As a customer of the GC.com website, do you like the forums better now that there is a strict policy about being totally on subject and sticking only to talk about geocaching?

Actually, there are many geocaching topics that are not allowed to be discussed anymore.

*****

December 4, 2003

Don't start a riot under the disguise of trying to protect rights.

El Diablo

Wow -- that is a bit much, don't you think?

I thought the idea also was to have fun -- isn't that part of this sport ?

3.9k · December 4, 2003

Don't start a riot under the disguise of trying to protect rights.

El Diablo

Wow -- that is a bit much, don't you think?

I thought the idea also was to have fun -- isn't that part of this sport ?

Do you see any fun in these fourms anymore?

El Diablo

December 4, 2003

That's funny, I thought this site was about GEOCACHING. Finding and placing caches is hardly boring. The problem is some people want these forums to be their form of personal entertainment. The forums are only a small part of what this sport is about.

4k · December 4, 2003

If I was a customer in a restaurant, and the owner/manager talked to me the way I've seen a particular mod here talk to people, I would walk out. Then I ask myself,"Why am I still here." No good response comes to mind. Guess I'll go caching instead.

errrrrrrrrrrr, ummmmmmmmmmm............ geoCaching

8.4k · December 4, 2003

I'd like to ask a question. What do most of you think would happen if suddenly, TPTB decided to have a completely open, uncensored, unmoderated forum? If foul language, personal attacks, disrespectful posts about the admins, etc. were allowed, what would be the outcome? Would the forums quickly degenerate into a place where only a very few people visited, and the order of the day was belittleing and insulting people for their opinions?
A little of that goes on now, imagine if it were allowed to run rampant.

Rampant!!

I AM SO SICK OF FOREGONE CONCLUSIONS!!!!

What the heck was it before?

I don't have to have my "Old Cheese" but this "new cheese" isn't to my liking either.

I could sometimes be the lowest common denominator on a thread. I will push the envelope beyond good taste, but I have limits as do most adults.

The FUN has been archived in this online event cache.

Sn gans

1.3k · December 4, 2003

What the heck was it before?

It was moderated before, only there were fewer people doing it.

I was going to say more, but... eh.

December 4, 2003

That's funny, I thought this site was about GEOCACHING. Finding and placing caches is hardly boring. The problem is some people want these forums to be their form of personal entertainment. The forums are only a small part of what this sport is about.

Agree 100% that it is the finding and placing of caches that is the #1 part of this sport, and that the forums are just a small part of what it is all about.

However, certainly that small part can also be some fun, and not strictly educational.

Really, how much do you care who has seen the biggest cache container, or the smallest cache container -- really important stuff. Glad they are only allowing important information on the site now.

1.4k · December 4, 2003

El Diablo wrote:
The poor people coming in today only find topics complaining about admins, moderators, approvers. Very good example we are all setting.

Now wait a second -- that is far from the truth. You act like the General forum is the only forum here. It's not. Anyone wanting to learn about caching goes where? Hey, how about Getting Started? I don't see anyone doing anything in there but helping out by offering advice and suggestions. Nope, no complaining there. Want to learn about Travel Bugs? There's a place for that. How about something in your local area? There's a forum for that too.

What you fail to mention in your elequent post is that there is a second tier of cachers here, of which you are one -- they are those who are familiar with the rules, the problems, and to a certain degree, each other. A sanitized environment for these people will not allow them the ability and courtesy to add constructively and positively to the activity or the community.

What you fail to realize is that there is an online culture that has developed here and the members of that culture do not wish to be oppressed. They want to talk openly and honestly about the issues that they face while engaged in this activity.

What we really don't need is someone trying to tell us how we can, or cannot do, that which we are all passionate about. We are not idiots.

What we also really don't need is the condescending attitude and insults that are frequently delivered by the few that feel they know what is best for all.

This game (activity, sport, whatever you want to call it) is a community activity -- it cannot function without a common meeting place OR without a community to fill that meeting place. There is a symbiotic relationship -- but half of the equation is being ignored, stiffled, insulted and generally disregarded.

Time to acknowledge that this is a two way street.

*****

Edit: typo

Edited December 4, 2003 by Jomarac5

1.3k · December 4, 2003

Well, the container threads seem to be pretty popular, so some people do care.

December 4, 2003

Well, the container threads seem to be pretty popular, so some people do care.

Well you might have me there .... I got chills reading about that micro made out of a breath strip container.

4k · December 4, 2003

ROFLSHINPMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

errrrrrrrrrrr, ummmmmm.............. geoCaching

December 4, 2003

So what interesting geocaching-related issue do you wish to discuss?

(Note that anything to do with forum moderation or the problems that brought it on so strongly isn't directly geocaching-related. It's only forum-related.)

1.4k · December 4, 2003

Yumitori wrote:
(Note that anything to do with forum moderation or the problems that brought it on so strongly isn't directly geocaching-related. It's only forum-related.)

In fact, it is geocaching related because the changes that are currently taking place are inhibiting us from openly discussing geocaching related issues.

*****

3.9k · December 4, 2003

J5,

You make some valid points. I could get into some of your other points with you but it would be considered a personal attack, and rightly so. I disagree with what you do here and the way you go about it. Now for the record that is not a personal attack just a personal opinion.

El Diablo

1.3k · December 4, 2003

Well, I'm all up for discussing geocaching related topics. I think the problem is that the definition of "discussing" is as varied as the people who wish to participate in it.

6.4k · December 4, 2003

If I was a customer in a restaurant, and the owner/manager talked to me the way I've seen a particular mod here talk to people, I would walk out. Then I ask myself,"Why am I still here." No good response comes to mind. Guess I'll go caching instead.

errrrrrrrrrrr, ummmmmmmmmmm............ geoCaching

If I owned a store, and GAVE everyone who walked in a valuable item FOR FREE, even if they walked in every single day for that free item, and never purchased anything from me... and all they did is complain that they dont LIKE the free item I give them... they want a DIFFERENT free item... a product I don't even care to stock in my store....

.....after months and months of them complaining every day, they would hear a LOT worse come out of my mouth as I banned them from my store.

December 4, 2003

(snip)
It's amazing how a few rebels can drag intelligent people down to their level.

(snip)

They never post in a positive topic, or have anything positive to say.

(Snip) .......walking into my house and telling me you have the right to say and do as you please. I don't know about the rest of you, but if someone did that in my house they would find themselves on their a** in the front yard wondering what hit them.

El Diablo

El Diablo

Is yours a self fulfilling prophecy? Sounds like it.

Even if what you said was true it takes 2 to argue about it, so why not turn the channel instead of adding to it?

You complain others never have anything positive to say, Well your post wasnt any ray of sunshine....

1.3k · December 4, 2003

You could say the same about your post as well, all the more ironic because you actually pointed it out.

3.9k · December 4, 2003

(snip)
It's amazing how a few rebels can drag intelligent people down to their level.

(snip)

They never post in a positive topic, or have anything positive to say.

(Snip) .......walking into my house and telling me you have the right to say and do as you please. I don't know about the rest of you, but if someone did that in my house they would find themselves on their a** in the front yard wondering what hit them.

El Diablo

El Diablo

Is yours a self fulfilling prophecy? Sounds like it.

Even if what you said was true it takes 2 to argue about it, so why not turn the channel instead of adding to it?

You complain others never have anything positive to say, Well your post wasnt any ray of sunshine....

Why should I turn the channel? I've been here for years. Do I have a self fulfilling goal? Yes. I want the fourms back civil and positive. It takes two to argue? Yes. There was my post plus your post...so that is two. So your correct there also.

I want the fourms back with no flamming, no bashing, and just a little whinning...I like to whine sometimes...like now. Is it too much to ask?

El Diablo

December 4, 2003

True to a small extent, however the point was that if the self appointed defenders of the perpetual virginity of forum posts wouldnt take the bait,...... how long would the whining last? Mush less methinks IMHO.

Point: fire goes out when someone quits feeding it.

3.9k · December 4, 2003

True to a small extent, however the point was that if the self appointed defenders of the perpetual virginity of forum posts wouldnt take the bait,...... how long would the whining last? Mush less methinks IMHO.
Point: fire goes out when someone quits feeding it.

You mean by posting to the topic? I agree with you somewhat. However, once you realize the enemy isn't going away, then it's time to stand up and take back control. Otherwise 6 months from now...neither you nor I would be in here discussing this. Actually if it keeps going the way it is, I'll be in here for a shorter time than that.

El Diablo

1.4k · December 4, 2003

El Diablo wrote:
...the enemy isn't going away

Enemy? Perhaps it's your perception that is creating your grief.

I thought we were all friends.

*****

December 4, 2003

Actually I'm refering more to the change the channel aspect. This is one thread out of how many thousand? Like helping newbies? Cruise the newbie boards. Dont go looking for contraversial (sp?) threads and trying to fix people.

There are plenty of people that love a good debate. They may argue a position that is actually diffrent than they really believe just for the exercise.

If you prefer sunshine and roses, hit those kinds of threads

December 4, 2003

It just seems like there is a group of people that like things a certain way and they think everybody else should not think any differently than them.

A person can see the topic. They can see who is posting what. Just don't read it if you don't like it or don't want to. How fudging hard is that?

I really wish I had the time to go back through all the old posts and check on something. I would look at all of the threads about putting an end to virtuals. I can not say for sure but my guess is those who don't like virtuals and feel they should not be on this site are the same ones (of course not all but I would guess many) who are female dogging about the female dogging of the Admins/Mods/this site (take your pick or add your own).

If you don't think like them then you are wrong and your thoughts should not be shared. They may corrupt everyone else, we just can't have a group of people thinking for themselves and expressing an opinion. It might start letting people think differently than them. That just can not be allowed.

These arguments are not about free speech. We are not given that right here, this is a private business. But it is about a community, a group, a club if you will. How many times have we gone to meetings and had discussions about things that in no way relate to the reason we are there? That happens it is part of the social activity that makes belonging to those things fun. In the end the business of the meeting gets done. But I guess some find that just to ... something. I really can't get my mind around what their problem is.

3.9k · December 4, 2003

Actually I'm refering more to the change the channel aspect. This is one thread out of how many thousand? Like helping newbies? Cruise the newbie boards. Dont go looking for contraversial (sp?) threads and trying to fix people.

There are plenty of people that love a good debate. They may argue a position that is actually diffrent than they really believe just for the exercise.

If you prefer sunshine and roses, hit those kinds of threads

You keep telling me to not do the same thing your doing.

BTW going off topic. I see from your profile you do RC aircraft. I did it for a few years and then lost my mentor. So I gave it up. I miss it a lot.

El Diablo

4.5k · December 4, 2003

What you fail to mention in your elequent post is that there is a second tier of cachers here, of which you are one -- they are those who are familiar with the rules, the problems, and to a certain degree, each other. A sanitized environment for these people will not allow them the ability and courtesy to add constructively and positively to the activity or the community.

Why would management operate in what appears to be a contradictory way that seems to ticking off so many then? When things don't make sense, follow the money.

This is a business. A sanitized version of the forums reduces conflicts and keeps the newcomers coming. "Nothing scary here for the family, ma." Once signed up, your committed. It's part of a business plan to increase profit, as a business is suppose to, and not necessarily allow rules that are better for some of the customers than the owner. It's also why a monopoly never turns out the best product or creates the best rules over the long run. As long as the business plan protects the long term customer base, it will stay a monopoly.

So if you want things that are different, you have to convince a prejudicial business management that it's in their best financial interest. Kind of like getting a land manager to see how good caching is to his and his park's benefit if he would allow it. Baring that, you're whistling in the dark!

Alan

December 4, 2003

You keep telling me to not do the same thing your doing.

Yes, but I freely admit I enjoy a little more spirited debate than you might care for, so my posting here is not as diametrically opposed to my likes and dislikes as yours.

Sorry to hear of your RC problems but maybe its for the best. Crashing a few hundred dollars of planes in an afternoon will give you way more of a blood pressure problem than reading these threads!

1.3k · December 4, 2003

I don't recall ever arguing in favor of something I don't agree with, but I suppose it could happen. I do love a good debate. I like to post in "controversial threads", but I don't like to see them closed down. They get closed when people get out of hand. It is possible to have a fast paced, heated debate without insulting people. I have a pretty good idea when a thread is about to be closed (most of the time) just by reading the posts. People can get upset when someone points out flaws in their position on a topic, and flaming and attacks often result. That's when the threads get locked. Usually it's two or three random people who square off against each other in any given controversy. That's fine, as long as the discussion remains civil. The mods are there to attempt to keep those topics open for people to use by nudging people in the right direction. If, despite their best efforts, the htread cannot be saved, is gets locked.

December 4, 2003

I'd like to see a return to the old days when the most controversial thing in the forums was a toe with blinking eyes or a random MagicMan zinger. We never needed the mods then.

1.8k · December 4, 2003

I don't have to have my "Old Cheese" but this "new cheese" isn't to my liking either.

Hey now...

8.4k · December 4, 2003

I don't have to have my "Old Cheese" but this "new cheese" isn't to my liking either.

Hey now...

ROFLMAO!!!

Sn gans

3.9k · December 4, 2003

You keep telling me to not do the same thing your doing.

Yes, but I freely admit I enjoy a little more spirited debate than you might care for, so my posting here is not as diametrically opposed to my likes and dislikes as yours.

Sorry to hear of your RC problems but maybe its for the best. Crashing a few hundred dollars of planes in an afternoon will give you way more of a blood pressure problem than reading these threads!

I don't mind a spirited debate as long as it's civil and on topic. I realize that people have different opinions than I do, and I often learn from those opinions. It's the flamming and taking over the topic I disagree with.

You made a statement about not responding and they would go away. Do you think if the Republicans stopped responding to the Democrats that they would go away, or the other way around?

Every side needs someone to stand up and champion their cause. I remember these fourms when I started way back when. It could get a little heated and off topic, but it was totaly different. Everyone had respect for each other.

El Diablo

4k · December 4, 2003

El Diablo wrote:
...the enemy isn't going away

Enemy? Perhaps it's your perception that is creating your grief.

I thought we were all friends.

*****

I'll be your friend.....I'm lonely......I'm scared.......I'm cold and hungry......ya got anything to eat?

errrrrrrr, ummmmmmmmmmm.......... geoCaching

1.4k · December 4, 2003

El Diablo wrote:
It could get a little heated and off topic, but it was totaly different. Everyone had respect for each other.

That must have been a time before some people started looking at others as "the enemy".

*****

Edited December 4, 2003 by Jomarac5

4k · December 4, 2003

If I owned a store, and GAVE everyone who walked in a valuable item FOR FREE......

Where's the value in a forum that gets closed just because you don't agree with what the mods have to say, regardless of how intelligently or how ignorantly you state your case, just simply because you disagree?

EDITED BY POSTER TO BE NEAR-TOPIC: errrrrrrr, ummmmmmmm............ geoCaching

Edited December 4, 2003 by Sparky-Watts

3.9k · December 4, 2003

I have a cat that looks just like you Sparky. Only his name is CB..stands for Cracker Barrel which is where I found him. I think he escaped from a traveler. Although as mean as he is...they might have tossed him.

El Diablo

2.3k · December 4, 2003

What you fail to realize is that there is an online culture that has developed here and the members of that culture do not wish to be oppressed. They want to talk openly and honestly about the issues that they face while engaged in this activity.

What we really don't need is someone trying to tell us how we can, or cannot do, that which we are all passionate about. We are not idiots.

You hit the nail right on the sweet spot of the head J5!

I love talking about geocaching, but as I have gotten to know those of you who post regularly, I find myself wanting to discuss other topics which may or may not be related to geocaching... Email is not a good recourse for this as I still want to experience the community culture and input. Its very refreshing to see all the differences between all of us yet we share some of the same passions.

3.9k · December 4, 2003

El Diablo wrote:
It could get a little heated and off topic, but it was totaly different. Everyone had respect for each other.

That must have been a time before some people started looking at others as "the enemy".

*****

There were none then. we had some people that thought differently than most. They expressed views that weren't shared by most, but they were respectful and in return were respected.

El Diablo

1.4k · December 4, 2003

El Diablo wrote:
There were none then. we had some people that thought differently than most. They expressed views that weren't shared by most, but they were respectful and in return were respected.

Wow. Did you see that airplane fly by?

I think you missed the point completely.

*****

4k · December 4, 2003

I have a cat that looks just like you Sparky. Only his name is CB..stands for Cracker Barrel which is where I found him. I think he escaped from a traveler. Although as mean as he is...they might have tossed him.

El Diablo

Actually, that isn't a picture of me......her name is Punkin, and I found her in a box beside the road while caching one day. She had a broken leg, so I fixed it. Now she's the BRATTIEST cat of the four I own!

errrrrrrr, ummmmmmmmm................ geoCaching

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