Members-only caches

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

Ok look at the alternative....we get rie of this site cuz it's to much or they quit because of the out of pocket money it's costing to run it. Now we can send our new caches by mail to all the people we know. We can have a e-mail list of 100000 cachers and send them all at once. Face it with out the help of the site the whole thing would be 95% less fun if it even existed. This is a great site with wonderful features with auto e-mail to find what you want and don't want. Think of all the things you spend $30 dollars on that don't give you 1/3 the pleasure and exercise. Cheap intertainment !!!

Treat every CACHE you find..... .like it's Yours

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

Let me preface this by saying I am a paying member and I have absolutely no problem with people using the site and not paying.

However, in my not-so-humble opinion, refusing to pay and equating placing caches as contributing to this site is like not paying the cover charge at a club claiming that you are enough of a draw to bring others in. What, you think you're some kind of rock star?

Banner advertising is dead, so thinking you contribute in that round-about way is laughable.

The fact of the matter is, paying members are in effect supporting non-paying members. I'm fine with that. If it weren't for paying members I doubt this site would be what it is. The sheer size and scope of this site is beyond a hobby. If you think you contribute enough to this hobby, try footing the monthly bill for this site out of your own pocket.

'nuff said.

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

If you feel so "member exclusive" then it's ironic that you continue to log "non member" caches.

If you hide it, they will come.

Grandmaster Cache

Tank at: FISH WHISPERER'S LAGOON

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

quote:
Banner advertising is dead, so thinking you contribute in that round-about way is laughable.

No, it most certainly is not.

If you hide it, they will come.

Grandmaster Cache

Tank at: FISH WHISPERER'S LAGOON

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:
If you feel so "member exclusive" then it's ironic that you continue to log "non member" caches.

Those who become members receive extra features and benefits because they help support the site financially ... members are entitled to take advantage of all the features the site has to offer. By definition that includes those features available free to the general public.

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

quote:
Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:
If you feel so "member exclusive" then it's ironic that you continue to log "non member" caches.

Those who become members receive extra features and benefits because they help support the site financially ... members are entitled to take advantage of _all_ the features the site has to offer. By definition that includes those features available free to the general public.

I think an important point has been missed by GRANDMASTER.

Based on the discussions in this very thread, I can make a couple generalizations.

1. The Charter Members consider 98% of the value of Geocaching.com is available free to all. The remaining 2% are the features we could live without, but without the core 98%, this hobby would be nowhere near as enjoyable as it is.

2. There are relatively few members only caches. (This answers the original question.) I checked and found that I would need to travel over 120 miles from my home to get to the nearest members only cache.

3. No one (or almost no one) decided to be a charter member mainly for the value of the extras offered. They chose to be a charter member as a show of support.

4. Charter members don't hold anything against those that choose not to be charter members. For those of you with a thin skin - making a cache members only is NOT a form of disrespect.

-- Scott

ICQ: 5563417

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

Bassoon Pilot:

I'm totally in agreement with that. I think the extra services and features not available to me are an absolute perk for those wishing to generate revenue. I don't view "finding" a cache as a perk. That's something everybody that finds a cache should share with others. This thinking that $3 "protects" caching from "non-paying" members is an insult to those of us that spend two months "dues" on a single cache container - contents not included.

Scott, I'd agree with most of what you say except for every charter member I know runs the queries and pocket downloads. That's what causes someone to open their wallets - take away all the perks and see how many people are so willing to pony up their "show of support" dollars. Ask Jeremy how many people threw dollars at him BP (before perks). Our UBB doesn't charge - and we do offer a great service of free help/mentoring in the marine/reef hobby. The only way we'd get dollars is if we offered perks... Despite how often people tell us "how great we are" and "how much they appreciate us." Geocaching is a far less expensive hobby - so the marine folks can hardly be called "cheap."

Also,

quote:
Charter members don't hold anything against those that choose not to be charter members.

I disagree. Not with all charter members, but certainly you do have those cheapskates who'd rather pay $3 a month to have "unlimited finds" yet who spend far less a month hiding caches than non-charter members do. And you are holding something against non-charter members when you seek their caches, yet keep yours hidden from them. I think some of the points I'm making are being equally missed.

If you hide it, they will come.

Grandmaster Cache

Tank at: FISH WHISPERER'S LAGOON

[This message was edited by GRANDMASTER CACHE on February 01, 2003 at 09:25 AM.]

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

There are those of us that are willing to spend"2 months dues on a container",and place many caches ,and pay the 30 dollars a year,just so you cheapskates can play as well.I personally dont care if you pay dues or not,just stop complaining that those of us that do get something extra.Most caches really arent worth stealing,its just that some people like to screw up things for everyone else

I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess.

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:
...certainly you do have those cheapskates who'd rather pay $3 a month to have "unlimited finds" yet who spend far less a month _hiding_ caches than non-charter members do.

If you want to point out that being a Charter Member doesn't nullify the obligation to hide and maintain caches (etc), then you have a point worth making.

I recently found a cache with my brother and his nephews - the cache was full of Geojunk. I consulted the logs and discovered the second previous visitor left a free 6 inch sub sandwich coupon in exchange for some trinket. The next visitor took the sandwich coupon and left some worthless trinket. Some people don't get it.

Several Charter Members have said that their $30 divided by ## caches meant they paid only ## cents per cache. I don't think they were saying that to mean that their $30 entitled them to be a "cache freeloader" - poaching all the best prizes from the caches and leaving junk in exchange, and not hiding any caches.

I don't think you will find many Charter Members with that attitude. I suspect that the majority of Charter Members with over 30 finds have hidden at least one cache.

Sure, I use the Pocket Queries, but that honestly didn't factor into my decision. Neither did members only caches (there aren't any around here). I wouldn't pay $30 a year for Pocket Queries.

If you're feeling rejected, come to Iowa. There are 169 caches within a 100 mile radius of my home, and not a single one is members only.

Scott

ICQ: 5563417

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

quote:
just so you cheapskates can play as well

I rest my case.

Nobody that "hides" isn't entitled to "play" without being called a cheapskate. If you represent the "charter member" then I'm glad I'm not one in your "group." Happy caching. Those that make it possible for you to have something to find accept your rudeness nonetheless. Without the cheapskates you have precious little to support with your whopping $3.

I understand that this "person" (Jackson) is not indicative of the regular charter member. Most people who geocache give far more than they "take" which is why the hobby continues to grow.

If you hide it, they will come.

Grandmaster Cache

Tank at: FISH WHISPERER'S LAGOON

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

Hi Scott -

No, I'm not feeling deprived. There's hundreds of caches in the same radius around here. I'll never find them all. Placing them is far more fulfilling than finding them.

And I know most members don't think their $3 "entitles" them. There are those that do, however, think they are "better" than non-chartered members as has been demonstrated.

Happy caching, and my caches will always be welcome to anybody - whether or not I wish to buy pocket queries or not. I've stated my opinion in enough redundancy - and hope people continue to enjoy my caches.

If you hide it, they will come.

Grandmaster Cache

Tank at: FISH WHISPERER'S LAGOON

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by smillersmiller:
If you're feeling rejected, come to Iowa. There are 169 caches within a 100 mile radius of my home, and not a single one is members only.

Scott

Currenty, I think theres only one MOC in Iowa, hopefully its stays like that

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

as I stated before I have hidden only 1 moc the other 9 are not, I have no problem with people not paying if they so choose,however I do get TIRED of reading post of nothing but complaints about moc and paying to be a member,sites like these involve a lot of money to run and equip.Since I enjoy the sport I dont mind paying my fair share., and if I choose to place a moc its my busness,not yours.I guarantee if I lived in your neck of the woods all my hides would be moc. nuff said

I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess.

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:

And I know most members don't think their $3 "entitles" them. There are those that do, however, think they are "better" than non-chartered members as has been demonstrated.

This idea of a "geocaching elite" was much discussed back when the Charter Memberships were first offered. I don't think the claim has merit.

Supporting the site financially does "entitle" members to take advantage of the added features of the site if they choose to. The ability to create and search for MOCs are among those features.

To date, I have placed 17 caches. 16 were "public" caches available to anyone who visited the site. 1 is a MOC. Any non-member could have found any of my 16 "public" caches if they chose to.

I don't consider the fact that a non-member is unable to search for my MOC to be in any way discriminatory against that non-member ... I see the MOC as being more akin to a "bonus cache" for others who have also chosen to provide financial support to the site by purchasing a membership.

If, however, a cacher sought "public" caches exclusively and placed only "MOCs," I would agree such a situation would at least appear to be discriminatory.

I also don't agree that being a MOC necessarily provides a cache any additional protection from vandalism.

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by MaxEntropy:
Here's what you get for membership:

Pocket Queries:

Haven't used them yet.

MyPop! features in the Groundspeak Forums:

Nope, not yet

Charter Membership logo:

Nice

The thanks and appreciation ("warm fuzzies") from Geocaching.com for support of the game. We couldn't exist without your support!

Priceless

I joined because I've got way more than $30 worth of fun because of this site and I want to pay my way and support the game.

I see now why solohiker hikes solo.

Mickey

Max Entropy

More than just a name, a lifestyle.

Not many MOC caches but the above is worth it in my opinion.

I have temporally placed caches as MOC to get feed back before changing to regular status.

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

Jacksons - no they wouldn't.

If you hide it, they will come.

Grandmaster Cache

Tank at: FISH WHISPERER'S LAGOON

Posted February 1, 2003 · February 1, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:
Jacksons - no they wouldn't.

Exactly the kind of activity we'd like to avoid.

Exactly the kind of attitude that's not welcome.

Posted February 2, 2003 · February 2, 2003

Sorry, I don't take the bait from instigators, se7en... remember when you said:

quote:
The account I'm posting from right now is called a "Sock Puppet" account. It's so I can post and most people won't know who I am until it's too late!!! bwahahahah!

You must be used to hiding behind aliases.

If you hide it, they will come.

Grandmaster Cache

Tank at: FISH WHISPERER'S LAGOON

Posted February 2, 2003 · February 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TeamTJ:
Anyone know how many members-only caches there are?

Just curious if the $$ is worth it.

Thanks!

TeamTJ

Before the arrogant hijacking of this thread the original question should be repeated. My answer is I don't know how many, probably not many and yes it is worth it. If you are the kind of person who has never payed for shareware, although it is one of your favorite applications, then you most likely won't get the satisfaction that some of us have for supporting the site. If I didn't feel good about giving something back I wouldn't do it either.

A day without sunshine is like ...night.

Posted February 2, 2003 · February 2, 2003

The satisfaction is so great when our family places a really nice cache and posts the coords on this board so others can find it. That is giving back. It's time to just call off the bashing and accept that there are louses on both sides of the fence. But just because someone doesn't pay (instead feeling they are contributing by placing caches) doesn't make them a cheapskate. If the board were in financial despair - I'm sure more people would spend less on caches and allocate funds for the board. It's all about balance - the board isn't suffering for funds but so many places are lacking in caches. You can't have one level of "giving back" without the other.

I think that's fair enough. Nobody here is evil, I'm sure. Some people put effort here, others in caches. Some do both. As long as you participate at some level - you are deserving of the satisfaction and respect of being a "fair" participant.

p.s. The nature of threads is to veer somewhat off topic, but I'll do my part in helping answer:

No I don't think the $3 is "worth it" to find "member only" caches. Enough people place good caches and there is not a gold mine on the "other side of the fence. It's an honest answer to the question. There are so many caches around here that only a few people ever "find them all" and need the MOC. New caches pop up every week.

Maybe in some areas where caches are not as readily available then people would want any extras they can find - and then $3 would be worth it to them.

I think the thread got "diverted" a bit because there are a few different interpretions to the thread. When someone says "it's not worth it" I don't think they are slamming Jeremy or this board in any way... Their honest answer to the question "Is $3 worth it to find "more" caches" is no. They are not wrong for honestly answering a question. They are not saying "Groundspeak is not worth $3." There's not a person here who has even implied that.

Hopefully that brings a bit of quiet to the roar I admit I engaged in. I just don't want those who don't pay to feel like they are "lessor." Some of us pay $3 to help support the board. Others buy 3X tee shirts (and spend an extra two bucks for it) to help support the board. Others invest a considerable amount of money into buying ammo boxes and placing them with really nice items. That helps the board directly because it keeps the hobby strong. Without the hobby, you have no board.

Now Jacksons - you seem to have gotten hot - and so did I. I extend my hand and just ask that you not think people that don't pay $3 don't think they are supporting Groundpeak via other means. And it's not good to "flaunt" MOCs because people can get irritated and then all hell breaks loose. My record speaks of excellent trade-ups (read my logs) and excellent cache-hides (read my caches). I'd like to think I'm well-respected and people look forward to new cache hides from Team BigM.

Now, no more nastiness from anybody. Even the "undercover puncher" also known as se7en.

It's 5:30 on Sunday morning and I've spent all night trying to make some nice geocoins for everybody. I do believe I've failed miserably on my first mold but I will try a different wood tomorrow. There's far more worse things going on than anything to make fellow hobbyists who share a passion for this hobby to quibble about.

Back to work!

Cheers

If you hide it, they will come.

Grandmaster Cache

Tank at: FISH WHISPERER'S LAGOON

Posted February 2, 2003 · February 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by GRANDMASTER CACHE:
Now, no more nastiness from anybody. Even the "undercover puncher" also known as se7en.

I have absolutely no problem with that. I welcome it, in fact.

Posted February 2, 2003 · February 2, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by TeamTJ:
Anyone know how many members-only caches there are?

Just curious if the $$ is worth it.

Thanks!

TeamTJ

220 in the USA (I think).

Posted February 2, 2003 · February 2, 2003

I or no one has flaunted mocs and yes we did get a lottle hot but nothing personal because this is a great sport and we all support it by placing caches and supporting Groundspeak.I have been to other sites on camping and rving where you cant even look at forum topics, let alone post if you dont pay a fee higher than grounspeak charges.so I just hope people really apprectate what we get here. Grandmaster Cache you just keep on caching

I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess.

Posted February 3, 2003 · February 3, 2003

quit *****ing - if you like it and have the money, then spend it - if you don't have the money, or don't want to spend it, then don't!!

this thread is almost as bad as the apostrophe one!

yikes!

jenn

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

To answer the question......Is the $30 a year worth it for the MOC.

NO..there aren't enough of them.

Is the $30 a year worth the warm and fuzzie feeling you get for supporting and using a great web site with many advantages that help you enjoy your hobbie more ?

Yup sure is.

I feel kind of bad because I haven't placed a cache. Here in MI it has been a very cold winter and I don't think I can do the kind of job I want to do. In the spring I will place mine....already have the area picked and am working on the container.

If you do pay or don't pay....that is your thing and I will try to treat every one the same. How you support the hobbie is your thing...I just hope you get as much out of it as we do. If you see C&S Huffers please say HI and smile. We all enjoy the same outdoors and freedom to do what we like.

Treat every CACHE you find..... .like it's Yours

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

Members only caches are wrong, it supports this elitist cacher mentality. Granted I am a so called charter member and I pay because I thought it would improve and support the website. I also thought this was the only website that features geocaching. Turns out it isn't.

With all the things that have occured in the past few weeks, Accusations of hiding unsafe caches and now another cache stolen I am not feeling welcome any more. It may sound like a conspiracy theory but there is an "inner circle" here and most of us are on the outside looking in.

Capn Skully

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:
Members only caches are wrong, it supports this elitist cacher mentality. Granted I am a so called charter member and I pay because I thought it would improve and support the website.

So it's wrong for members to take advantage of features they have chosen to pay for? That's silly; then it must also be just as wrong for you, as a member, not to take advantage of features you chose to pay for.

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:
With all the things that have occured in the past few weeks, Accusations of hiding unsafe caches and now another cache stolen I am not feeling welcome any more. It may sound like a conspiracy theory but there is an "inner circle" here and most of us are on the outside looking in.

Yes, you do sound paranoid ... it is totally unclear how any of this relates to membership in Groundspeak or utilizing features available only to members. But I will say that because this is your first post to this thread, prior to your post you were indeed "on the outside looking in" regarding this matter.

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by C&S Huffers:
Ok look at the alternative....we get rie of this site cuz it's to much or they quit because of the out of pocket money it's costing to run it. Now we can send our new caches by mail to all the people we know. We can have a e-mail list of 100000 cachers and send them all at once. Face it with out the help of the site the whole thing would be 95% less fun if it even existed.

This is a problem, imo. Geocaching and geocaching.com are not the same. The more geocaching.com is branded as geocaching, the more reliant we are upon this site.

There's a page somewhere here that states that geocaching.com will never be pay-to-play. Yet, consider this. With the obvious expense everyone seems to think running this site is, wouldn't it be easy at some point for Groundspeak to institute the following:

The server bandwith is so great that we are going to have to make changes. Upon registering, one has to enter his ZIP code (no change). The ZIP cannot be changed unless you are a charter member (that doesn't seem like a big deal).

Later then . . .

Our bandwith is increasingly expensive. Therefore, we are limiting the radius of views to ten miles of your registered ZIP code (we are not charging you to play, but if you want more caches available to you, you will need to become a charter member).

Understand, I do not begrudge Jeremy or anyone else making money off this game. My issue is not if the players facilitate that endeavor, pretty soon we will not have a choice.

IMO, it is far better to not brand one site as geocaching. Once you dismiss all other sites who are out there posting caches, then you open yourself up to being at the one company's mercy.

Perhaps you have more faith it will not turn into the above than I. I like options. Giving the game to one company, as the above quotation does, limits my choices.

Fro.

________________________________________

Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Frolickin:
Giving the game to one company, as the above quotation does, limits my choices.

Your choices are limited, yes. But it's not by TPTB's doing. No one else has stepped up to the plate like Jeremy and company. This site is much easier to use and better organized than anything else. This site is just plain convenient.

I think TPTB know that it wouldn't take much for a truly competing website to spring up. Even the one's that are out there now are just waiting for this site to become more restrictive. Jeremy knows this. He's a smart guy and knows he can't give anyone any reason to jump ship. No pop-up ads, no in-yer-face ads, core site free, logical extras at a very cheap price, the list goes on.

Yes, this site has built some considerable momentum, but IMHO it's the best site any one has come up with to date.

...that's not to mention I like the one-stop shopping!

CR

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:
Your choices are limited, yes. But it's not by TPTB's doing.

I agree. But when the players of the game refer to this site as geocaching (one-stop shopping, etc.) it hurts the game for everyone.

This site has done a great service to the game. My point is that the game has to be larger than geocaching.com. By not placing all the eggs in the same basket the game remains less restrictive and less expensive, therefore, more universal.

A good businessman works to build a brand. Once he does so, the leverage is all his. Jeremy is doing a wonderful job. His job, however, is profit-driven. So far, that has not interferred with the game too adversely (if at all). Continued unchecked, however, profits drive decisions. Payrolls have to be met, etc. The Motley Fool is a similar case study in this respect. The free-flow of information fell to the pressure of making payrolls. Eventually, TMF was forced to go to subscriptions. That cut its membership considerably, but enabled the Gardners et al. to remain drawing an income.

I see geocaching.com similarly. It is in the users best interest to diversify.

Fro.

________________________________________

Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

Yep, I paid up to put something back into the activity. I have set a cracking MOC pour encourage les autres and it has attracted at least two other people to cough up the anti. Most caches are still open to all.

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

I'm not going to respond to most of the comments made here as I would be at this PC for the rest of the day. We have paid for only two memberships. Consumer Reports & Geocaching. Consumer Reports, because to get the info you want you have to pay. Geocaching.......Because we love it. Best hobbie we do together. We both enjoy the outdoors. We love nature. Finding places we never knew where there. And we have lived in this area all our lives. The excitement of finding the cache, or seeing the wildlife alive instead of roadkill. And many other reasons.

We had a GPS before geocaching came along. For boating. Replaced the old Loran. In fact, that's how we found out about this great thing called geocaching. Surfing the web for a new GPS.

Anyway, main topic. I think there is only one, maybe two, members only caches within a hundred mile radius of us. And from what I've heard, they aren't any better than the rest.

We pay the fee as an appreciation for something we enjoy. Get out of the house. Take the dog for a walk. EXCERCISE. And to keep this site running. I'd hate to see it lost due to lack of money.

Yes, we pay for more than just the membership. Gas, trinkets, ect. But it's worth it to us. I like getting messages about our caches & TB's. AHhhh, just the thrill of it all. Better than a stinky stadium reeking of alcohol & drunks falling all over you. I get the same thing at a concert too! JMO...Happy & Safe Caching...

rocker51

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

quote:
So it's wrong for members to take advantage of features they have chosen to pay for? That's silly; then it must also be just as wrong for you, as a member, _not_ to take advantage of features you chose to pay for.

No it isn't wrong to use the features I pay for. I pay for a weekly report that lists all the caches in my area, I then in turn download those to my GPSr. My first big disappointment is that State maps no longer show found caches. Shouldn't that be a premium feature? Some cachers used these maps on thier personal websites and suddenly the feature was turned off. IMHO Pay to Play is wrong. I can afford to buy top of the line GPSr, I can afford to travel to long distance caches, I can afford to place caches. Some people participating in this hobby can't become charter members because it could make the difference in buying milk for thier kids.

They go with other cachers and in many cases don't own a PC or GPS. So I am to exclude those honest hardworking people from particpating? My good friend an honest and hardworking person with a wife and four kids to support he can't afford a GPSr much less a membership in Groundspeak. So we "elitist" charter members are going exclude him. Before you ask how does he know about geocaching with out a PC, the public libraries and schools have PCs. He called me up the other day interested in a cache near our location.

Tell me where an MOC is fair to him...

Capn Skully

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:

No it isn't wrong to use the features I pay for. I pay for a weekly report that lists all the caches in my area, I then in turn download those to my GPSr. My first big disappointment is that State maps no longer show found caches. Shouldn't that be a premium feature?

It never was a premium feature, so we never paid for it. The reason given for it being removed was that it was too taxing on the servers, if I recall correctly. I miss this feature too; if you think it should be reintroduced as a premium feature, then make that suggestion.

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:

IMHO Pay to Play is wrong. ... Some people participating in this hobby can't become charter members because it could make the difference in buying milk for thier kids.

It's ridiculous to keep repeating that mantra when such a low percentage of caches are, in fact, MOCs. What percentage of caches in your local area are MOCs?

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:

... They go with other cachers and in many cases don't own a PC or GPS. So I am to exclude those honest hardworking people from particpating?

No. The only thing a non-member who finds a MOC with a member is denied is the opportunity to log the find online and increase their find count by one. Whoopee.

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:

Tell me where an MOC is fair to him...

Hey, then it must be unfair to me that I can't afford a Hummer II. That's okay though; I'll make do with what I have available to me and be thankful for it.

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:
...I can't afford a Hummer II.

Neither can I, but you gave[/i] me one...

I'd sell it, buy a Jeep with a butt load of accessories and upgrades, and a boat!

CR

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

quote:
It's ridiculous to keep repeating that mantra when such a low percentage of caches are, in fact, MOCs. What percentage of caches in your local area are MOCs?

As long as you keep saying I am wrong I will continue to say that MOCs are wrong. I paid my three dollars and I have the right to speak my peace.

I don't care if there is only one in my area. It is wrong. If there is one or one thousand it is still wrong.

Capn Skully

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:

As long as you keep saying I am wrong I will continue to say that MOCs are wrong. I paid my three dollars and I have the right to speak my peace.

You just go on looking foolish for as long as you want then, since you didn't need to "pay your three dollars" in order to voice your opinion. These forums are another free service available to anyone who merely registers.

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on February 05, 2003 at 01:39 PM.]

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Capn_Skully:
<>

As long as you keep saying I am wrong I will continue to say that MOCs are wrong. I paid my three dollars and I have the right to speak my peace.

<>

Capn Skully_

So if one of us says "you're right" will you stop?

This thread fast became nothing but a "No matter what you say, I'm still right" argument.

If no one is agreeing with you maybe you need to re-think what you are saying. If you feel that there shouldn't be any MOC's then don't hide any. There are a handful of MOC's in NJ. And one of those was placed as a goof.

Most of us joined to help support the website that we use to play. I did not join to be a member of the club.

Nuff said.

====================================

As always, the above statements are just MHO.

====================================

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

This sport has got to be the most fun for the buck that was ever created. That is why I am more than wiling to pay for the service! Elitist? try golf,tennis or even off-roading. BTW, I just found my first Members Only Cache.

Not because it was Members Only, because it was close by while I was doing some mantenance on one of my caches.

Also, I think it may be the only one in the Fort Worth area. Relax, enjoy and quit getting spun up.

Hiemdahl

Posted February 5, 2003 · February 5, 2003

We pay for a charter membership because we believe the site deserves support. The site, that is - the servers, the web programming, etc.

We finally got off of our butts and started placing some caches last weekend - 8 of them - to start paying back the community of cachers who have given us pleasure with their caches. We created a cache theme with them that allowed us to place them in locations near the areas where we have cached and enjoyed others' caches.

Paying back Groundspeak and paying back the community are two different things, and require different efforts. You pay back the site through $$. You pay back the community by placing caches, or by hosting event picnics, or whatever...

-J

Posted February 6, 2003 · February 6, 2003

Ok if I got this right........Jeremy is making money hand over fist and he has trouble getting the loads of cash to the bank. IF this is true then why aren't the people making this accusation starting a site like this. If I found something like this ( cash cow ) I think I would do it and buy that Hummer. Don't just sit on your hands...get going and make the big bucks like he is. Fact is I hope he is making some money for his time and talent but can see no way he is making a million dollars. Thanks for the nice clean and easy site and low fee Jeremy. I, with you will watch the other ones make lots of money with their own sites. Have them e-mail me with the location of it so I can compair it with this one.

Treat every CACHE you find..... .like it's Yours

Posted February 6, 2003 · February 6, 2003

My take:

I paid for a membership, not because of any particular "feature" I gained, but because I felt like supporting the site and being part of it.

With that said, I think members-only caches should be abolished. They're a form of elitism. Geocaching is a sport and a hobby, and making certain caches only available to those who pay turns it into either a "business" or a "club" depending on how you look at it.

I think the only thing that should keep you from finding _ANY_ cache is your own level of skill and ability. "Membership" should not be required to find a cache.

Let's face it, NO ONE is going to pay $30 just for access to some MOC's anyway.

--

Scott Johnson (ScottJ)

Posted February 6, 2003 · February 6, 2003

If someone wants to pay, great. If someone doesn't want to pay, great also. What got me irritated was an early post (from someone who has disappeared from the thread, by the way) that, in my mind, said, "you can get it for free and if you pay you're a sucker." That's what I have a problem with.

-----

Memory is a prism through which yesterday's light is passed.

Posted February 6, 2003 · February 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by ScottJ:

I think the only thing that should keep you from finding _ANY_ cache is your own level of skill and ability. "Membership" should not be required to find a cache.

My take:

Accessing the page of a MOC, then, is simply beyond the ability of a non-member.

MOCs are no more elitist than a "free" 4/4 cache would be to a wheelchair-bound participant ... MOCs are no more "elitist" in nature than a "free" cache that required the use of a boat or SCUBA gear would be to me.

I certainly wouldn't argue that such caches should be abolished. Everyone has limits; some might be physical in nature, others might be financial. That's life.

Out of my 781 finds to date, precisely four have been MOCs. Each MOC was really no different than any "free" cache; I did not concern myself with any reason the cache owners might have had for making their caches MOCs. My choice, as a member, was to seek the cache or not to seek the cache.

Of the 17 caches I have placed to date, precisely one has been a MOC. I chose to make it a MOC for two reasons:

1. A few members in the area mentioned that there were few, if any, MOCs in the region and they would like to have some.

2. I felt it might be environmentally desirable to limit the number of visitors to the location I had selected for the cache.

If that's what you deem to be "elitist," then so be it. I offer no apology.

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on February 06, 2003 at 06:58 AM.]

Members-only caches

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