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Etiquette Question


DraigAthar
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Hi all!

 

I just have an etiquette question. What do you do if you visit a cache and are seriously disappointed by it, for whatever reasons? If you think it's lame, poorly thought out, badly hidden, an unfortunate location, anything like that, do you say as much when you log your find? Or do you stick with the old rule - "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all"? On the one hand, I like to be honest about my caching experiences, but obviously if I was always totally honest I could easily offend the cache owner. So what do YOU do in a situation like that? Just curious! icon_smile.gif

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Tough question. I have a couple caches that you might consider lame. One is designed to be a cache to take your children to; I designed it to be fun for the little ones. Another is so easy it made me laugh when I placed it; you don't have to get out of the car to retrieve the cache and log your find.

 

Maybe you should send the cache owner a private email, let him/her know what you think. It may have been hidden for a different audience.

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

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I'd just leave a breif log. "TNLNSL, Thanks". I don't see the benefit of trashing someone's cache in the log. Even a private e-mail isn't always a good idea. How do you politely tell someone that their cache is a stinker? No matter how you put it, some cache owners are very thin skinned and may take offense at any constructive criticism.

 

The only time I may say something is if the location is dangerous (but if it's a 4-5 star terrain, that's to be expected), or if its

placement doesn't conform with this website's guidelines (e.g. private property, on active RR tracks, etc...).

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

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quote:
If you think it's lame, poorly thought out, badly hidden, an unfortunate location, anything like that, do you say as much when you log your find?

 

"TNLN" pretty much covers it!

 

Ode to a Pigeon: Roses are Red, Violets are Blue, You Lookin' at Me? YOU LOOKIN' AT ME?! (b. katt, 7/14/03)

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On the other hand....

 

We have a longtime cacher in our area that doesn't mind speaking his mind when he sees something he doesn't like. On some occassions it's provoked some angry replies via the note response on a cache. He's not rude, just matter of fact about it. I've found the responses helpful. I'd drive by a cache and just look at the area and say, "yep, so-and-so was right, that's dangerous/lame/or whatever", and move on. And conversely, when he finds a great cache, he's quite prosaic in his praise. All in all, he's pretty even handed and helpful.

 

As a matter of fact, we've just had some terse exchanges about a new cache in the area that's near an outlawed geocaching area. The problem is the signal is so poor that's it's easy to be 100 ft off or more and not realize that's it's not on the outlaw location. That cache is starting to stack up the DNF's by the way.

 

BTW Brian, like the new avatar, but the signature line doesn't make sense icon_confused.gif

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If I were to see something wrong with a cache, I'd email the placer privately. I think we all owe it to the people placing caches to politely point out things you might see as an issue.

 

Of course, they may already be aware but still. To me, allowing an issue to go unreported to the cache owner is like allowing a co-worker to walk around with their fly down.

 

But logs are not the place for those kinds of comments, I don't think. I got a pretty negative comment and it really put me off because it was a public criticism of the cache. The thing is... the cache /is/ really crummy. icon_smile.gif So I needed the nudge, but would have preferred if it had come privately.

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Assimilating golf balls - one geocache at a time.

Flat_MiGeo_A88.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

I'd just leave a breif log. "TNLNSL, Thanks". I don't see the benefit of trashing someone's cache in the log...


 

I agree. Short brief to the point logs pretty much say "this cache sucked"

 

There is more to a cache than the cache itself. The company, the roadtrip, and things coming together can make a lame cache into the high point of a trip for no better reason than if it wasn't there you may not have stopped at a dive serving the best food you have ate on this planet bar none. Or something else along those lines.

 

Besides trashing the cache is also a good way for you to start gaining a reputation and having all your own caches trashed and plundered via community backlash.

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quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

The only time I may say something is if the location is dangerous (but if it's a 4-5 star terrain, that's to be expected)


 

BrianSnat brings up one of my pet peeves: There is a distinct difference between difficult and dangerous. I thoroughly enjoy tackling difficult caches. But I neither enjoy nor appreciate dangerous caches and do not understand why the two are equated or confused. I think that if a cache is dangerous this should be clearly stated in the cache description so that those of us who do not wish to risk life and limb in the pursuit of our hobby may be forewarned. Generally speaking, if I have a problem with a cache I will send a polite and private email to the cache owner, since I know that I would like to be informed if someone has a problem with one of mine. But if I encounter a dangerous cache I will make that clear in the public log entry as a heads up to other cachers.

 

In my own perspective of the pursuit, difficult has a worthwhile place and enhances the experience for me - but dangerous does not. I would never suggest banning dangerous caches - for one thing, it is a subjective quality and some may be comfortable with elements of danger that others are not. But if you're going to plant a cache that is best approached via climbing gear or helicopter, please put that in your description so you can include me out.

 

Peace,

Radical Geezer

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Go for Planet's advice, it's actually worth 3 cents.

 

In answer to the question, imho, it depends. You can't worry about the response/reaction, because you can't affect that. Different personality types are going to interpret it differently. I've heard people take straightforward logs offensively... I get irritated when people try to be tactful and don't simply say what they mean. I like criticism 'cause how else are you going to learn anything? You can't please all the people all the time after all.

 

If it's sensitive, email; otherwise, include it in the log so others may be aware.

 

hth,

 

Randy

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We agree with the concept here.

"Wait! No we don't! If Master has a problem, *#%$*#$ him!"

 

I have a cache where at least one of the first searchers thought it was next to a railroad track. See how he handled it.

 

It wouldn't have bothered me at all if he had sent me an email questioning the placement as well. This is of course referring to safety.

 

As for a 'lame cache', I'd echo the others. Keep the description to a "TNLNSL" and that usually is somewhat of a tip off.

 

I recently went for a cache without mapping it that turned out to be in the bushes near someobdy's front yard in a residential area. I was within 20 feet of it in the car, but didn't feel like looking for it due to the area.

I posted a polite note on the page stating that I didn't realize it was a residential placement and that I decided to not search for it because it wasn't the type I enjoy and wanted to let others know as well. I made no negative remarks about it, just stated that it wasn't for me.

 

People have differnet tastes, though and maybe you could write something along those lines like "If you like easy....blah blah..."

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quote:
Originally posted by DraigAthar:

What do you do if you visit a cache and are seriously disappointed by it, for whatever reasons?


 

What if you visited someones house and were seriously disappointed by it, for whatever reasons? Would you say gee your house sucks, you don't have nice lamps, or yor lawn needs mowing.

 

Hey, it ain't your cache, who are you to be disappointed by it? I don't play this game in order to live up to other people's expectations and I don't have expectations of other's caches!

 

When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

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quote:
Originally posted by Trogdor!:

What if you visited someones house and were seriously disappointed by it, for whatever reasons? Would you say gee your house sucks, you don't have nice lamps, or yor lawn needs mowing.


 

Ah, but someone else's house doesn't exist specifically for me (or anyone else) to visit and glean entertainment from it. Generally speaking, geocaches are placed for others to find and visit and be entertained as they do so. That's what makes it a game.

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What Trippy said. If a fellow casher hadn't e-mailed me about one of my newer placements, I wouldn't have known visitation was impacting the area more than I thought it would. If it's a fellow cacher you know (chat with on local geocachihng pages), you probably have an idea of their personality and what you can get away with when you e-mail them.

 

About badly hidden, a nudge might be to say 'cache wasn't very well hidden, you might want to see if someone's moved it from the original location'.... caches do tend to 'wander' at times.

 

Sometimes conditions change from when the cache was placed; construction, seasonal, etc. I think a part of one of UMC's multis got frozen in place- stuff where it affects others searching you should probably post in your log. If something has changed, especially if it can be considered 'unexpected', from when it was placed, many owners would like to know so they can check up on it.

 

Lame caches... I usually only list what I took and what I left, if applicable. Unfortunate location or poorly thought out, it depends on what is meant by that. I can't remember finding a cache that was truly poorly thought out (besides one that was 40' from an existing cache, before the .1 mile was in effect/enforced). Maybe one 10' from a highway or active rr tracks would be considered poorly thought out, but the admins catch those.

 

I walk the Maze of Moments, but everywhere I turn to, begins a new beginning, but never finds a finish... -Enya, Anywhere Is

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If I went to a "model home", and thought it was nothing special, I might say so.

 

If I went into a home with my real estate agent to look at it (as a prospective buyer), and I thought it was crappy, I would say so.

 

If you came to my house and said it was crappy, I wouldn't ask you back (unless I agreed with you).

 

As for short messages indicating crappy caches... I sometimes log TNLNSL on some outstanding caches because I don't see much point in being #129 to say "Great Location".

 

Don't read into people's words, you may be reading in the wrong language.

 

If a cache ia a 1/1, I'd expect it might not be exciting.

 

Maybe we need a third rating digit for how spectacular and fun it is... a 1/1/5 would be easy to get to, easy to find, and extremely spectacular, enjoyable & unusual... an exceptional cache.

 

Usually the more difficult it is to achieve, the more pleasurable the experience (with one exception perhaps).

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Once I read a funny magazine article. I nearly fell over laughing over it and couldn't wait for the guy I work with to read it. He did and chuckled a little but was nowhere near as moved by it as I was. The POINT: We react to things based on our unique points of view and ways of seeing things. There's no telling why some people are moved by one thing and not another.

 

Putting a negative "review" in the log because you personally didn't see the significance of the place or felt that thier skill in choosing it was lacking might turn off other people from seeking it and isn't fair to them or to the placer.

 

And to comment on the contents doesn't seem right either. That is beyond thier control unless thier not purging the junk during thier maintenance. In that case I'll simply say "TNLN".

 

In the case of the former, where I might not have seen a grand vista but still posted a find, I describe other things besides the details. "Nice day for a walk...thanks for the hide."

 

"Now may every living thing, young or old, weak or strong, living near or far, known or unknown, living or departed or yet unborn, may every living thing know happiness!"

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quote:
Originally posted by DraigAthar:

 

Ah, but someone else's house doesn't exist specifically for me (or anyone else) to visit and glean entertainment from it. Generally speaking, geocaches are placed for others to find and visit and be entertained as they do so. That's what makes it a game.


 

O.K. I agree with the points made regarding safety or impact to the surroundings. But I feel really strongly about the expectations and disappointments. I think it follows along with the what’s considered to be junk found in caches. For some reason a lot of people seem to thing that opening up a geocache is like opening a box of Cracker Jacks, if there isn’t something that little Billy (who got bribed up the hill with promises of great treasure) likes in the cache, the cache is a disappointment. So what were the entertaining things left in the first cache??? My first caches were placed before I ever visited these forums and I had no idea that people felt disappointed with what was in a cache. I placed a cache off a fairly out of the way trail with about 700 ft of climb in about a mile and a half. When I placed the cache I was thinking that I wanted people to come to the very unique spot and if I was way back up here on the hill what would I want cached up here if I needed something? So I placed things like shoelaces, sunscreen, a glasses repair kit, snake bite kit, and a couple of unique pins and a George dollar. The first to find made a comment that he was disappointed with the cache contents but left a very desirable Moun10bike geocoin. I was shocked that he was disappointed and I was honored that he had left such a prize in my cache. The interesting thing is that the FTF edited his log and removed the comment about being disappointed and elsewhere stated that he had learned that it wasn’t always what was in the cache that was important! I thought that was really cool. The next guy to the cache took the geocoin and left nothing!

 

When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

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The way I see it is we all have different views and different likes and dislikes. For every person that is disappointed there are 3 that are not, or the other way around. To post in the logs that you did not like the spot the cacher placed it in or were disappointed is rude in my eyes. This person did take the time and effort to put together a cache and go hide it for you to find. If you don't like it fine, just don't spew it out in the logs. If you have something usefull to say e-mail the owner with your thoughts and try and keep it in a positive light. Just look at it this way, if you spent your time and effort on something and someone comes along and calls in crap how'd you feel.

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I'd prefer any negative comments be emailed to me, but wouldn't be to upset if they were logged. I had a few very helpful comments emailed to me on my first cache. And I went and cleaned up a cache area that a log entry said was covered in beer cans.

 

I would prefer people be honest about their experience hunting my cache, but I don't think I'd ever put anything too negative in a log. Email works better for that.

 

I like Trogdor!'s answer too.

 

___________________________________________________________

If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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I'm not suggesting with my previous comments that you email people "Your cache sucked" but if you feel you have some helpful advice for them and frame it as advice (take it or leave it) then I don't see any harm in making a suggestion.

 

If I see a gladware container at a cache, I'll email the owner and relate my experience with gladware - it doesn't hold up well to the elements and especially to Michigan winters. Etc.

 

--------

trippy1976 - Team KKF2A

Assimilating golf balls - one geocache at a time.

Flat_MiGeo_A88.gif

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I was thinking about a slightly different subject.

 

Too many cache's placed by one person.

 

I was reading someone celebrated leaving their 100'th cache.

 

Well, If you have stuffed all the parks in the area, what fun is that for me?

 

How many is too many?

 

In an area with few/no cache's I'd say having someone place might be nice. But in a typical place, it prevents others from having that part of the game.

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quote:
Originally posted by YankeeRage:

I was thinking about a slightly different subject.

 

Too many cache's placed by one person.

 

I was reading someone celebrated leaving their 100'th cache.

 

Well, If you have stuffed all the parks in the area, what fun is that for me?

 

How many is too many?

 

In an area with few/no cache's I'd say having someone place might be nice. But in a typical place, it prevents others from having that part of the game.


 

Well some like to hide them, others like you just like to find them. Perhaps the question could be; How many is too few?? icon_rolleyes.gif I was going to have a ratio of about 10/1 finds/hides, but now I have a whole series of about 10 caches planned.

 

When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!

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quote:
Too many cache's placed by one person.

 

I was reading someone celebrated leaving their 100'th cache.


 

Well, If you have stuffed all the parks in the area, what fun is that for me?

 

You get to find them.

 

 

How many is too many?

 

There is no such thing as too many, as long as you can maintian them. Some people probably shouldn't place one cache, while others have the time and ability to mantain 50, 60 or more.

 

"You can't make a man by standing a sheep on his hind legs. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" - Max Beerbohm

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