+hoovman Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I've noticed some caches left by tourists. I won't mention which, but one I saw was placed on an island by someone who, according to their profile, lives too far from the cache location to maintain it, and I doubt anyone lives close enough to take it over. It has never been logged. This worries me. How do these get past the admins? Does the geocacher "ethic" require that I report the cache in question, as part of self-policing the game? Should I send the placer an email reminding that we have a responsibility to maintain our caches? (I don't think they'd go back to get it). I certainly could be wrong - maybe this person flys there often to check on it - but it seems unlikely. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment
+Katoomer Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I myself am a truck driver. Today I am in Waco TX. I live in Michigan. I pass many caches frequently all over. There is one right behind the truck stop in Youngstown OH. I dont know about that one you refer to. I just thought I'd give you something to think about. Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hoovman:I've noticed some caches left by tourists. ... one I saw was placed on an island by someone who, according to their profile, lives too far from the cache location to maintain it ... It has never been logged. This worries me. ... Should I send the placer an email reminding that we have a responsibility to maintain our caches? Is the cache local to you? Do you intend to search for the cache in order to determine its condition? Why worry? If the cache had received a few "No Finds," then perhaps some action would need to be taken; from your post, that does not appear to be the case. I agree with the basic premise that people should only place caches that they are able to maintain or have someone maintain for them; you haven't stated anything that would make me think the person who placed the cache has not done so. Quote Link to comment
+Dekaner Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Email the cache owner, email the admin. If it is the case that they dumped the cache and left without any means to maintain it, the cache should either be archived or adopted (preferred). - Dekaner of Team KKF2A Quote Link to comment
+droosa Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hoovman: I certainly could be wrong - maybe this person flys there often to check on it - but it seems unlikely. Thoughts? Are you Carnac the Magnificent? How would you know the circumstances? And why would you worry about it? Just go cache and have fun playing the game, let Admin be the cops. Some time back, a person declared a cache to be unsafe. Come to find out this person had never visited the cache. This rush to judgement and declaration was bogus. Probably best to stay out of the policing business, huh? Quote Link to comment
+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 You have found a total of FOUR caches and want to report me to the proper authorities?? Yes I live 2600 miles away from Maui and placed a cache there. The majority of caches on Maui are placed by tourists. The cache in question is Manawaipueo Gulch and over 40 people have found it. Why don't you just enjoy yourself instead of becoming chief of the anal police? In the past I have had moderators including Jeremy question me about a cache before it was approved. In this case it was just approved and it gets maintained. You don't need to know how do you? I hear voices.....and they don't like you! Quote Link to comment
+hoovman Posted December 8, 2002 Author Share Posted December 8, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite:The cache in question is http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=2623 and over 40 people have found it. Why don't you just enjoy yourself instead of becoming chief of the anal police? In the past I have had moderators including Jeremy question me about a cache before it was approved. In this case it was just approved and it gets maintained. You don't need to know how do you? Actually, your cache is not the one to which I was referring. For one thing, read my whole post - I said "It has never been logged." Obviously yours has been logged by many happy cachers. As a matter of fact it's somewhere that probably sees much less tourism than Maui: Easter Island and while I admitted in my post that I don't know the details, I still think my guess that it's not maintained is a decent one - I guess I should have kept that to myself. Sorry But I brought the issue up because, like me, the person who placed it is a newbie who has found fewer than 5 caches and it appeared that the cache might not follow the conventions that I am starting to learn about the game (permission, maintenance, placed by an experienced cacher). I asked if there was something I should do. I've basically received 2 suggestions: forget about it or discretly email the cacher and the admins. I really didn't intend to cause a fuss - that's why I didn't mention the specific cache at first. I guess I should have thought more carefully about whether my post would offend before asking questions on the forum. Sorry again. Besides not trying to ask quietly and privately about something, I also seem to have made the mistake of questioning the system while I'm still only on the very edges of it. For that I sincerely apologize. I'll just try and enjoy and learn like people have suggested. And as to why I would care about it at all: being part of something, even as a beginner, I want to contribute to its positive reputation with non-participants, in part so that it doesn't get harder and harder to get permission to place caches in places. Apparantly I let my zeal for the game go too far. On a happier note: I tripped over the cache in question at Buxley'sIt is a really cool way to find and read about caches all over the world, whether or not you ever plan to visit them. Quote Link to comment
+nincehelser Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 If you're going to worry about the quality of caches, stick to your locality. How about the cache farthest north? No one has visited that either. No one lives near it. Remote and exotic locations are part of the draw for some people. Some of these places may not draw many visitors...some may not be visited at all. Don't worry about it. Some may just want to dream of going there. Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 quote:Originally posted by nincehelser:Some of these places may not draw many visitors...some may not be visited at all. Don't worry about it. Some may just want to dream of going there. Don't give anyone ideas, or before you know it someone will "dream of finding it" and claim a virtual find. Quote Link to comment
Rubbertoe Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Dekaner of Team KKF2A:Email the cache owner, email the admin. If it is the case that they dumped the cache and left without any means to maintain it, the cache should either be archived or adopted (preferred). Archiving doesn't seem like an option, here, to me... I mean - if it is archived on the site, it'll still be out there. If it is archived on the site AND someone removes the cache and keeps the goodies, the person that placed the cache is gonna be really cheezed off. You can't really fault the cache approvers on this one, because there are surely many caches that are placed in far away locations - yet the person might regularly go there and be able to perform maintenance if needed. Not to mention that many people have family or friends in different states that are willing to do cache maintenance for them. Without knowing the cache(s) in question, it's really hard to say if they are "bad" or not. I think most people's reaction around here would be to give the hider(s) the benefit of the doubt - and then clean up their mess if they turn out to be stop-n-drop abandoned cache spewers. The Toe Pages Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted December 8, 2002 Share Posted December 8, 2002 Vacation caches are not a good idea and are discouraged. But sometimes people do freqent a certain area and place a cache there even though they may live a distance away. I am planning several Vermont caches, despite the fact that it's over 4 hours away. I do however visit the area frequently I don't know the specifics about this cache, but I think a general rule of thumb is that if you (or a designated maintainer) can't get out there within a few weeks to check out a reported problem, then you shouldn't place the cache. "You can't make a man by standing a sheep on its hind legs, but by standing a flock of sheep in that position, you can make a crowd of men" -Max Beerbohm Quote Link to comment
+Divine Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite:You have found a total of FOUR caches and want to report me to the proper authorities?? Aww, how's that for welcoming us newbies to the sport? How many found/hidden caches you consider enough for being 'allowed' to discuss in forums? As it has already been pointed, there are LOTS of caches out there hidden and left by tourists, and worrying about their condition is at least a good question. In my opinion, tourist resort caches are a good thing, a little spice to your vacation trips, perhaps. If there's no local maintaining, we're all responsible to check the condition of the cache (hide exposed containers better, pour the water out, replace non-working pens etc). Just like things you wish people would treat your local caches when they visit them. quote:Why don't you just enjoy yourself instead of becoming chief of the anal police? Is there an anal police department in Butte Falls? (Yeah, I know how it's pronounced, but when there's a pun to tamper...) - All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body. - Quote Link to comment
+bloodwood70 Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I stumbled on it also at buxleys but my question is if I spend the money to travel there for a caching vacation I would hope to get somthing more than 10 or so trinkets but beside that point i am looking at placing a couple caches in places not near my home I live in astoria OR and my job (in the past 2 years) has sent me to 5 different mexican cities 4 times each and san diego every other month along with san fran, newport,seattle, port angelas victoria bc eureka ca tacoma grays harbor coos bay i have regularly visited these places and yes i know i have no caches logged and i am new to the sport but the benchmarks have been quite interesting there are so many I average about 4 weeks at home and 6-7 weeks out at work so on my limited time at home I plan on logging some caches well as many as i can but the time away in the other cities i dont see any problem in placing a cache there if i can get to it and check on it sorry I rambled but all is ok I finally got my avatar fixed and the note below man its cool that is my little buddy thanks all HAPPY CACHING THATS NOT BURNT, THATS BAR-B-QUE Quote Link to comment
+Geo-Johnson's Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Maybe just keep an eye on it for a while. We have an island cache near us with no finds yet........unfortunately we found it on our list after we had put our boat away for the season.........but i bet you can figure out where our first find of spring will be....... Children are natural mimics who act like their parents despite every effort to teach them good manners. Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 There's probably way more caches abandoned by local cachers who have given up the hobby then caches placed by people just visiting. If you think a local cache needs maintenance, just do it after notify the placer. If you placed a cache someplace you visited, and you see it needs maintenance and can't do it, post a note on the cache page asking the next visitor to help out. You can also contact the cachers who have been there who appear active in the area with lots of their own hides and ask them if they would do you a favor and perform the needed maintenance. I don't see anything wrong with this. And I'm sure someone would help out. It's the same for people who have vacation homes in another state. If there's a problem, the local neighbors help out who live there year around help out. I hid a cache in FLorida 6 months ago, hasn't needed maintenance and loads of people have enjoyed going to the park it's located in. I don't think I was selfish about doing it and have enjoyed the heck out of locals as well as other visitors to Florida who have hunted it. I have a relative who can help out with maintenance but the above method could be used if they weren't there. Or, it could be the excuse I need to take another FLorida vacation. Alan Quote Link to comment
+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 quote:Is there an anal police department in Butte Falls? Before you make fun of our PD you'll have to show me a PD that isn't anal But we are proud of our entire PD, all one of them. Sometimes unkind people even refer to our fair city as Butt Crack Falls. Is that mean or what??? I have noticed that many other tourists have placed caches on Maui. Some are virtuals which of course require no maintainence but there are lots of standard caches. While visiting there the last time I replaced the cachebox and loggbook on a cache that was messed up. We can all help out can't we? I hear voices.....and they don't like you! Quote Link to comment
+Dekaner Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Judy&Dick:Are you Carnac the Magnificent? How would you know the circumstances? And why would you worry about it? Just go cache and have fun playing the game, let Admin be the cops? I couldn't -disagree- more. We all need to help monitor and maintain all of the caches out there. We should be one big happy family that are our watching each other's back's (and caches!) If a cache was setup in an irresponsible way, for whatever reason, the problem should be corrected or the cache should be archived. The question here really is, was this setup in an irresponsible way? I believe the answer to lie in 'if the cache owner can maintain it or not'. If not, it should be archived -and- pulled. (Perhaps email another local cacher to go retreive it.) Ideally this discussion could have been had privately between hoovman, the cache owner and perhaps Jeremy, but let's not bash hoovman for asking a very valid question on the forums. To get to the root of this problem though, the admin's do not have enough information to realistically approve/disapprove caches. Perhaps a few more fields in the cache submission page are in order, such as: - How do you plan to maintain this cache? - Did you get permission to place this cache ahead of time? - What type of land is the cache in? (City Park, State Park, Private Land, etc.) Then maybe cache owners would be a little more responsible. - Dekaner of Team KKF2A Quote Link to comment
+Ramness Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 quote:Originally posted by hoovman: As a matter of fact it's somewhere that probably sees much less tourism than Maui: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=21425 and while I admitted in my post that I don't know the details, I still think my guess that it's not maintained is a decent one - I guess I should have kept that to myself. Sorry whats even funnier, search nearby caches on that one. There is a cache a half mile away on the same island that had been there 9 months when this one was placed. It hasn't ever been logged either not even by the placers of this one... 2 Caches on one island, both half a mile apart. This Isn't rocket science... Quote Link to comment
+ooga booga Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Did anyone else notice that the coordinates on the cache mentioned in the above post seem a little...round? S 27° 11.000 W 109° 27.000 That must've been some luck finding a good hiding spot on those exact coordinates. Quote Link to comment
Rubbertoe Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 quote:Originally posted by ooga booga:Did anyone else notice that the coordinates on the cache mentioned in the above post seem a little...round? S 27° 11.000 W 109° 27.000 I've tried to hide one like that, but haven't had much like finding a suitable spot around here with lots of zeros. The Toe Pages Quote Link to comment
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