Challenge cache - find caches from a specific list which changes over time

[+pantadeusz]

There used to be challenge caches which require people to find caches from a specific list, which changes over time, for example:

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4M87N

(top 20 most favourited multis in Dublin)

 

My question is: would such a challenge still be allowed according to new challenge requirements? If not, which guideline would it break?

 

Thanks

[+Max and 99]

30 minutes ago, pantadeusz said:

There used to be challenge caches which require people to find caches from a specific list, which changes over time, for example:

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4M87N

(top 20 most favourited multis in Dublin)

 

My question is: would such a challenge still be allowed according to new challenge requirements? If not, which guideline would it break?

 

Thanks

Do you think maybe this applies? 

[+arisoft]

If it is not a list, but is a database search, and the cache owner has no way to select the caches, it should be allowed. For example, most favorited caches and oldest caches etc. are typical allowed challenges.

Edited May 8 by arisoft

[+pantadeusz]

6 minutes ago, arisoft said:

If it is not a list, but is database search, and the cache owner has no way to select the caches, it should be allowed. For example, most favorited caches and oldest caches etc. are typical allowed challenges.

Do you have an example where such a thing was allowed in the last 7 years?

[+SW00P]

Gca9b80

[+Hügh]

This, I believe, is still publishable. “5 of 7 oldest caches in county” is similar and many of those have been published recently. 

[+pantadeusz]

What about: all of the top 20 caches in Wilson scale (as ranked on project-gc) in a given city?

[+arisoft]

1 hour ago, pantadeusz said:

What about: all of the top 20 caches in Wilson scale (as ranked on project-gc) in a given city?

 

Can you explain how to calculate the Wilson scale in the cache description? The checker is mandatory, but the CO should be able to explain how it works for users not using Project-GC.

[Rock Chalk]

2 hours ago, pantadeusz said:

What about: all of the top 20 caches in Wilson scale (as ranked on project-gc) in a given city?

 

The Wilson Score is not a permitted challenge criteria, primarily because criteria must come from information broadly available on Geocaching.com. There are a few exceptions to that guideline (ex. counties), but the Wilson Score is not one.

[+pantadeusz]

Well, that's okay, it doesn't have to be Wilson scale, what about favourite point percentage instead?

 

So the challenge would be:
1) Find all of the top 20 caches in a given city.

2) Find at least 15 of the top 20 caches in a given city.

3) Find at least 5 of the top 20 caches in a given city.

Where "top" means "currently in the top 20 of the favourite point percentage list".

 

Would any of (1), (2) or (3) be acceptable?

Edited May 11 by pantadeusz

[+MNTA]

7 hours ago, pantadeusz said:

Well, that's okay, it doesn't have to be Wilson scale, what about favourite point percentage instead?

 

So the challenge would be:
1) Find all of the top 20 caches in a given city.

2) Find at least 15 of the top 20 caches in a given city.

3) Find at least 5 of the top 20 caches in a given city.

Where "top" means "currently in the top 20 of the favourite point percentage list".

 

Would any of (1), (2) or (3) be acceptable?

Can't do city unless the city is also considered a county. Virginia and Maryland have some that come to mind.

 

So you can do counties or states (or their equivalents in other countries)

 

I used to own a cache find a top10 favorited caches in 50 different counties.  Post rule change. I've seen one copy of this challenge in California. Personally I think states is a bit hard specially for folks in the western US where we have counties bigger than entire us states (Harney County Or 10,133 mi^2 vs Rhode Island 1,214 mi^2 which is also bigger than the land area of 9 US states) 

 

https://project-gc.com/Challenges/GC7R26B/35398

Ada County (ID) (#5♥119): GC5PTXJ TB Hotel S&PC2 (2017-03-25)
Adams County (PA) (#3♥424): GC8808 High On Longstreet (2021-08-07)
Alameda County (CA) (Archived♥142): GCQX32 Centerville Depot Solo (2019-02-09)
Arlington County (VA) (#1♥516): GCG77Q The Other Unknowns (2021-08-04)
Baker County (OR) (#2♥68): GC2EV2Z Tree Rest (2017-03-24)
Barren County (KY) (#1♥270): GC9A0ZZ Elsie (2023-07-17)
Clackamas County (OR) (#1♥4872): GCGV0P Original Stash Tribute Plaque (2016-07-06)
Harney County (OR) (#1♥47): GC1EC8C 9733 - Steens Mtn. (2020-09-27)
 

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 5/8/2024 at 4:03 PM, Hügh said:

“5 of 7 oldest caches in county” is similar and many of those have been published recently. 

 

This is allowed because although oldest active caches can change, older archived hides still qualify. Your qualifications don't change as the list changes.

 

OP example of Most Favorited Caches changes as Favorites are added to other caches, or removed because a cache is archived. 

[+Hügh]

4 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

This is allowed because although oldest active caches can change, older archived hides still qualify. Your qualifications don't change as the list changes.

 

OP example of Most Favorited Caches changes as Favorites are added to other caches, or removed because a cache is archived. 

 

That is true. Nonetheless, Reviewers do appear to be accepting challenges based on top favourite point lists. For example:

• GC90CNR - 10 of 20 most favourited caches in Iowa.
• GCAH8R3 - 5 of 100 most favourited caches in Luxembourg region, Belgium.
• GC94R3P - find the most favourited cache in 5 provinces or states.
• GC9127E - find 33 of the 99 most favourited caches, in the region in which you have the most finds.
• GCAF4FW - find 7 of the 77 most favourited caches in Börde, Sachsen-Anhalt, Germany.
• MNTA's GC7R26B, GC9YDAJ, GCA1GX8 - find one of the top ten most favourited caches in 50 counties.
• GCA9R03 - find one of the top five most favourited caches in ten states.

That said, other Reviewers appear to be rejecting challenges based on top favourite point lists. For instance, GCAFMP1 was originally requested to Project-GC as "Find one of the top five favorited caches in at least five Canadian provinces", but was eventually re-done as "Find two Multi-caches in at least six Canadian provinces." GCAE30N was requested as "find 12 of the 20 most favourited caches in Connecticut" last September, but is not yet published.

[+MNTA]

Requirement #11 Specific lists: OK: A challenge based on caches with at least X number of Favorite Points can be published, as the information comes from Geocaching.com. Not OK: A challenge based on elements under the cache owner’s primary control is not acceptable: examples, my favorites, my caches, bookmark lists, caches by this owner, or this group.

 

Combining #11 with #14 Positive Challenge Criteria and to me favorite challenges are a no brainer. 

 

Yes it is possible for a cache to fall off the qualification list. My advice to COs is to be a little flexible remember this is for fun. There is no prizes awarded except a virtual smiley. If a reasonable attempt was made let the person claim it. Specially since travel is probably required. 

 

Press the reviewer for their reasons to reject favorite challenges. It may be a correct decision it also may not be. The key item is that the information is coming from geocaching.com.

 

 

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 5/12/2024 at 1:21 PM, Hügh said:

That is true. Nonetheless, Reviewers do appear to be accepting challenges based on top favourite point lists. For example:

• GC90CNR - 10 of 20 most favourited caches in Iowa.
• GCAH8R3 - 5 of 100 most favourited caches in Luxembourg region, Belgium.
• GC94R3P - find the most favourited cache in 5 provinces or states.
• GC9127E - find 33 of the 99 most favourited caches, in the region in which you have the most finds.
• GCAF4FW - find 7 of the 77 most favourited caches in Börde, Sachsen-Anhalt, Germany.
• MNTA's GC7R26B, GC9YDAJ, GCA1GX8 - find one of the top ten most favourited caches in 50 counties.
• GCA9R03 - find one of the top five most favourited caches in ten states.

 

I notice these all involve a seeker's choice of 50% or less of the criteria.

 

So 5 of 10 most favorited in a county would fly, but the entire Top 10 would not.

[+pantadeusz]

19 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

 

I notice these all involve a seeker's choice of 50% or less of the criteria.

 

So 5 of 10 most favorited in a county would fly, but the entire Top 10 would not.

Would that be some official guideline somewhere (even a local one), or more of an "up to the specific reviewer" sort of decision?

[+JL_HSTRE]

3 hours ago, pantadeusz said:

Would that be some official guideline somewhere (even a local one), or more of an "up to the specific reviewer" sort of decision?

 

No idea. That's just my deduction from the examples given.

[Keystone]

7 hours ago, pantadeusz said:

Would that be some official guideline somewhere (even a local one), or more of an "up to the specific reviewer" sort of decision?

Finding all ten of the most highly favorited caches in X, or all ten of the oldest caches in X, constitutes a "specific list."  Finding any five out of the ten, as selected by the finder, introduces an element of choice so that it's not a specific list.  See  the published guidance quoted in the very first reply to the opening post in this thread.  By the way, 50% is not a maximum cap, but you should be safe in selecting that as the challenge criteria.

[+pantadeusz]

Is there a maximum cap?

[Keystone]

I have published, and seen other Reviewers publish, many "six out of ten" challenges.  There is no documented maximum, but I think you might run into trouble at or above the 80% level.  Check with your local Reviewer if you push past 60%.  I hope that this is helpful.

[+thebruce0]

Yeah I'd think that 'maximum cap' may vary from region to region and dependent on the makeup of those top list items.