Rule Changes

[+guamgirl46]

I am curious as to where one might find a listing of changes to geocaching rules and when these rules went into effect, such as challenge caches, caches in buildings (businesses, libraries, etc.), caches on military bases, or any significant changes that have occurred to the rules of the game that affect cache placement.  I have completed caches in other places and when I try to duplicate the type of hide where I live, I'm told it is against the rules.  I understand that many caches may be grandfathered in, but where is there a listing of these rule changes.  Before spending time, energy, and money to create something that I won't be able to place, I'd like to assure that I will be able to place the cache where I had intended it to be.

Edited April 23, 2023 by guamgirl46

[+GeoTrekker26]

Rather than search for a list that likely doesn’t exist ask your reviewer if you can implement your idea. They will give you appropriate feedback for your location. Despite the “company line” things are not universally interpreted the same.

[+peter-tvm]

You can use Wayback Machine to read the guidelines in the past. It's rather sporadic saved so some changes may be left out. 

 

Find the URL for the current guideline pages and copy into Wayback Machine and you can choose different dates in the past.

[+terratin]

Don't focus on past rules unless your aim is to post NAs on all those caches you've seen elsewhere. Which would be a bit weird tbo. Focus on the current rules and place caches that adhere to those. Think of why of all places you'd want to place a cache in a business and bring people there. Why on a military base. Also keep in mind that some of those old caches that are against rules required full permission and backup plans for backup plans, and were not simply approved by the reviewer. Thinking of a few caches in tourist infos on airports for example.

[+niraD]

4 hours ago, GeoTrekker26 said:

Rather than search for a list that likely doesn’t exist ask your reviewer if you can implement your idea. They will give you appropriate feedback for your location. Despite the “company line” things are not universally interpreted the same.

Your local volunteer reviewer may also be able to offer suggestions. For example, indoor caches require some outdoor component that meets the GPS usage requirement. New library caches therefore have multiple stages, such as an outdoor first stage that tells you where to look for the final inside the library.

[+JL_HSTRE]

If you encounter an old cache that seems unique there might be a reason you've never seen other caches like it.

 

Occasion you will find caches that violated the Guidelines from the day they were published because the Reviewer didn't notice the issue and nobody else Reported it.

 

For example, many years ago I found a difficult geocache hidden on a railing. It was difficult because it wasn't a magnetic hide like you'd usually seen in such a spot. A piece had to be unscrewed from the railing to pull out the cache. Thus detail undoubtedly wasn't mentioned to the Reviewer. Probably a dozen people before me Found it and just saw it as a clever hide. It was archived after I talked to the Reviewer.

 

Think through the consequences of your hide idea. Whether it's explicitly against the Guidelines or not, where are there potential problems if someone is looking for your cache but doesn’t know where it is? Would it be a problem if there were a hundred or a thousand other such hides? (A good mindset for all one's actions, not just in geocaching.)

 

In the example I gave about the railing: what if someone seeking the clever hide starts unscrewing important parts of the railing? Would the government agency that is responsible for the railing?

[Keystone]

I've been a Reviewer since May 2003, so I've seen most of the guideline changes over the years.  Wrote quite a few of 'em personally, back in the day.

 

The advice you received to focus on the current guidelines is good.  Regardless of publication date, the publication of any one cache does not serve as "precedent" for any other.  That statement is in the Hiding Guidelines.  Nevertheless, here are some thumbnail answers for the topics you mentioned:

 

For Challenge Caches, the key date to remember is April 21, 2015.  That's when a moratorium went into effect for a year or so, while the guidelines for acceptable challenges were rewritten and made much more restrictive.  Duplicating a pre-moratorium challenge presents a much higher risk that the challenge is no longer permitted.  But, even after challenge caches became publishable again, the rules have been tweaked several times since.  Always refer to the linked Challenge Cache guidance for current information.  Also, trust the challenge checker writers at Project-GC - they know what's acceptable.

 

For "Caches in Buildings," there are two guideline provisions in play.  Caches inside businesses are never allowed, because of the Commercial Caches guideline.  If you've found a cache inside a business, it's  either because the review process was imperfect, or because the cache received special permission from Geocaching HQ.  Out of the nearly 60,000 caches I've published, I've only published one cache inside a business with HQ's permission, and that happened back in 2008.  The cache page says: "This cache has been approved as an exception to the guidelines by Groundspeak."  For caches with a stage inside a library or other non-profit location with no more than a nominal admission fee, just follow the guidance on indoor caches in the Help Center.

 

For caches on military bases/installations, the "restricted locations" guideline has been in effect since the earliest days of geocaching.  Exceptions were sometimes made, like for bases in the Middle East or Afghanistan so that geocachers serving military duty in war zones had some caches to find in a safe location during their deployment.  Even these placements have since been restricted.  There's a chance of placing a cache in a recreational area or near a museum on a military base, if it is open to the general public, but the hoops you'd need to jump through regarding permission, cache page instructions, etc., would be substantial.

 

I hope that this guidance is helpful.  It's an example of what you would hear back if you wrote to your local Community Volunteer Reviewer for guidance in advance of placing a cache that you think might be problematic.  I happily respond to such email inquiries several times per month.  It's what we're here for!

[Keystone]

5 hours ago, peter-tvm said:

You can use Wayback Machine to read the guidelines in the past.

 

I have separate access to all the historic versions of the Guidelines, so I thought it would be fun to quote an example.  From November 2003, here are the Guidelines for "off limits" locations:

 

Quote

Caches will be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive):

• Caches on land maintained by the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges)
• Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.
• Caches placed on archaeological or historical sites. In most cases these areas are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans.
• Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks. In general we use a distance of 150 ft but your local area's trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply.
• Caches near or on military installations.
• Caches near or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings and airports.

 

So, the "buried caches" guideline is not new.  The "no caches on military bases" guideline is not new.  And so forth.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Keystone

[+guamgirl46]

Thanks for the responses.  I was particularly curious regarding the military bases because we previously had numerous ones on the military bases where I live and other local cachers who had been caching longer than I said that they had previously been allowed and then the rules changed.  Of course, if you are a cacher, it is frustrating when you see a cache published and even have an opportunity for FTF, but you don't have base access. 

 

But what distance is considered near a military base?  For example, I had a cache in a pole on the side of a street near a park.  I archived it and placed a new cache in a pole next to the old one, but further away from the nearest base and it was denied saying it was on military property.

 

Having so many bases on island, our roads may pass by installations, but all military property is fenced and marked.  One cacher moved a cache 4 times before it was accepted even though the map to check if a location is available showed that each place tried for placement was acceptable.

 

Regarding other types, I get ideas of types of hides when I travel to the States and have more opportunities to find a variety of caches.  I know I've done a couple in airports as I traveled and have done several in libraries.  As we have no library caches here, I thought it might be nice to have one so I now have a better understanding.

 

 

 

[+JL_HSTRE]

1 hour ago, guamgirl46 said:

all military property is fenced and marked

 

Marked, probably, but not necessarily fenced. When in doubt, check the local property appraiser maps.

 

A Coast Guard reservation near me only ever fenced the portion with structures.

 

Eglin AFB in the Florida Panhandle has a substantial area that is managed as conservation lands (the Florida National Scenic Trail even passes through it), although the property is sometimes closed for training exercises. It requires a special permit to use even when it is open. Geocaching is allowed there (I think there is even seasonal hunting on parts of it), also under permit, and probably not everywhere on the conservation part. I don't think the conservation area is fenced.

 

A number of public highways pass through Eglin, US Highway 98 passes through nearby Tyndall AFB, and US 27 goes through Fort Benning. I'm not sure if the highways are easements or DOT property outright, but I'd imagine the military would really prefer there not be any PnG hides there.

 

With schools, military bases, and playgrounds I would use the rule of thumb that if you can see it you're probably too close.

 

[+TTO2]

The rule I have never seen written that got me (my Reviewer said it was just in the Reviewers forum) was that a cacher had to take a complete step away from stage one of a Multi to stage two. Is there a such a database of unpublished guidelines?

I could be just missing it in the guidelines.  

Edited May 10, 2023 by TTO2

[+NanCycle]

On 4/23/2023 at 7:00 PM, guamgirl46 said:

  One cacher moved a cache 4 times before it was accepted even though the map to check if a location is available showed that each place tried for placement was acceptable.

 

 

 

 

Unless you are referring to a special map available to reviewers, the “map to check if a location is available “ only checks as to whether the location is blocked by another cache, not whether is is prohibited by any other reason.

[+niraD]

5 hours ago, TTO2 said:

The rule I have never seen written that got me (my Reviewer said it was just in the Reviewers forum) was that a cacher had to take a complete step away from stage one of a Multi to stage two. Is there a such a database of unpublished guidelines?

It sounds like the info in the Reviewers forum is the database.

 

I've heard it said that the guidelines are already long enough that many wannabe cache owners don't bother reading them, and that including more details about specific rulings would just make that worse.

 

With that said, I have found two-stage multi-caches where I could touch the first stage with one hand while touching the final stage with the other. That probably involved taking "a complete step away" from the first stage, but not much more than that.

 

I've also found mystery/puzzle caches where there were easy-to-find "this is not the cache you're looking for" decoys at the solution coordinates, as well as the actual harder-to-find cache container. But that's a different cache type, with different guidelines.

[Darwin473]

6 hours ago, TTO2 said:

...was that a cacher had to take a complete step away from stage one of a Multi to stage two...

 

I recall reading about a multi around a lake, where if you followed all the stops the final was under the first one! It may have been a series of caches instead of a multi, but that seems like the kind of thing that is creative and clever but would get old quick if lots of people started doing it.

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 5/10/2023 at 10:11 AM, TTO2 said:

The rule I have never seen written that got me (my Reviewer said it was just in the Reviewers forum) was that a cacher had to take a complete step away from stage one of a Multi to stage two. Is there a such a database of unpublished guidelines?

 

I'd file that under common sense.

 

A multi-stage cache must have multiple non-identical waypoints otherwise it's not a multi. Two containers at the same coordinates is a Mystery at best.

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 5/10/2023 at 4:52 PM, Darwin473 said:

I recall reading about a multi around a lake, where if you followed all the stops the final was under the first one! It may have been a series of caches instead of a multi, but that seems like the kind of thing that is creative and clever but would get old quick if lots of people started doing it.

 

A "roundabout" or runaround is a classic style of multi in which the waypoints form a loop. It can be quite helpful, or at least keep the seeker actively seeking the whole way, while blocking out other hides.

 

But having the first and last stage at the same location feels like a ripoff. Not to mention the people who might accidentally find the final while seeking the start. I'd file that under "just because you could doesn't mean you should."

[+paleolith]

On 4/23/2023 at 11:08 PM, JL_HSTRE said:

Marked, probably, but not necessarily fenced. When in doubt, check the local property appraiser maps.

 

I think that guamgirl46 was referring to her specific location, which from her username is presumably the island / US territory of Guam. It goes along with the rest of the discussion to say that local knowledge matters.

[+Harry Dolphin]

On 5/10/2023 at 10:11 AM, TTO2 said:

The rule I have never seen written that got me (my Reviewer said it was just in the Reviewers forum) was that a cacher had to take a complete step away from stage one of a Multi to stage two. Is there a such a database of unpublished guidelines?

I could be just missing it in the guidelines.  

 

I've found 3 or 4 multies where the final is in the same container as the original stage.  No other stages.  I told one of the COs that he should stop hiding these caches.

[+niraD]

37 minutes ago, Harry Dolphin said:

I've found 3 or 4 multies where the final is in the same container as the original stage.  No other stages.  I told one of the COs that he should stop hiding these caches.

So... was the log under a hidden panel or something? How would you find the "first stage" and not realize that it is also the final?

 

I've found offset multis with very short offsets ("where I could touch the first stage with one hand while touching the final stage with the other"). And I've found mystery/puzzle caches hidden at the posted coordinates, where the challenge was to figure out how to access the log. And I've found containers hidden directly under decoys. But I'm having difficulty figuring out how a single-container multi-cache could even work.

[+fuzziebear3]

I found one where the beginning and the final were at the same coordinates.  The beginning was 'obvious', and most cachers would find it first.  Then you found several intermediate, and it led back to the beginning location.   Hmmm!!!   Then looking a little more carefully, the final was also there, just a bit more difficult to find.

 

[+fuzziebear3]

I've also done one, called worlds shortest multi, where the hint said upper right side of post.  That one told you same coordinates, bottom back of post.

 

[+thebruce0]

There's the classic double-sided bottle cap style "world's shortest multi" with one side to unscrew to "open first", directing you to open the other side which held the micro/nano logsheet.

Edited May 24, 2023 by thebruce0