[Feature Request] Introduce an Attribute for Biltema / Fishing Rod Caches

[+TriciaG]

Regardless of all the discussion, logic, and reasoning in this thread, regardless of polls and petitions and pleadings, the bottom line is that it's HQ that will decide whether or not to do it. I don't know how much they consider the discussion in the forums when they make the decision.

[+GerandKat]

On 6/19/2022 at 3:16 PM, The Leprechauns said:

 

Good luck with that.  Would you also like reviewers to enforce your vision of Difficulty and Terrain ratings for these caches?  They'd probably want to double their pay before agreeing to either.

Not even if they rise the pay on factor 1,000

 

On 6/19/2022 at 4:02 PM, Max 1996 said:

As long as reviewers don't actively enforce a consistent rating,

You won't see that at any time, because D/T rating can't be objetivly measured, as our measure will differ from peolpe form other regions (keep it in Germay:  as we're living in northern Germany our highest mountain is something like 168m high, we're not used to climb mountain, so our perspective on steep incline will definitly differ from cacheowners in the alpine parts of Bavaria.

 

-------------------------

We've already said this in the German part of this forum.

The battle on the correct D/T rating for fishing rod cache is nothing but a proxy battle: Those "brainless athlete" cachers who are in favor of high T ratings get mad about the "chubby programmer" now beeing able to get their T4.5/5 grid filled, and those "chubby programmers" get mad about those "brainless athlete" cachers filling their D4.5/5 grid with those fishing rod caches. (If your seeing some irony in this part, your irony detector is working fine, if not please proceed to the irony detector mechanic near you)

 

[+monsterbox]

On 6/19/2022 at 11:59 AM, barefootjeff said:

 

Sorry, I was just trying to help. The information in the Australian regional wiki said it's based on advice from GCHQ and I'd assumed that advice would apply globally. Obviously not.

 

As far as the definition of "Specialised Equipment" goes, again apologies for quoting from the Australian wiki but this is their distinction between specialised equipment (T5 rating) and a special tool (attribute):

SPECIAL EQUIPMENT

These are things requiring training to use, safety equipment such as helmets or life jackets, and are not part of the caching tool kit you can carry easily, or the tool kit the average geocacher would carry most of the time. Boats, large ladders, and rope climbing or abseiling equipment are examples. For example, a technical tree climb requiring ropes etc. would be a T5. But a free climb without the need for special equipment would be 4.5 or lower (often much lower). Once you’re up there if it’s hard to open or find the cache then that would be reflected in the D rating. A pole cache (tree fishing) on the other hand, would be generally be low Terrain in most cases if it’s easy to get to the position you need to be at, but higher Difficulty to reflect a tricky manipulation.

I definitely second the terrain part, but I would love to see them being D5! This also includes "tools" and yes, it indeed IS a special tool. Nobody that I'm aware of doing these kind of caches had that tool upfront. Every single one of them extra bought such a pole just for that specific reason. So, please, let them be D5/Tx

[+monsterbox]

7 hours ago, GerandKat said:

Not even if they rise the pay on factor 1,000

 

You won't see that at any time, because D/T rating can't be objetivly measured, as our measure will differ from peolpe form other regions (keep it in Germay:  as we're living in northern Germany our highest mountain is something like 168m high, we're not used to climb mountain, so our perspective on steep incline will definitly differ from cacheowners in the alpine parts of Bavaria.

 

-------------------------

We've already said this in the German part of this forum.

The battle on the correct D/T rating for fishing rod cache is nothing but a proxy battle: Those "brainless athlete" cachers who are in favor of high T ratings get mad about the "chubby programmer" now beeing able to get their T4.5/5 grid filled, and those "chubby programmers" get mad about those "brainless athlete" cachers filling their D4.5/5 grid with those fishing rod caches. (If your seeing some irony in this part, your irony detector is working fine, if not please proceed to the irony detector mechanic near you)

 

Sorry, both true and wrong :-)

Yes, let's say a T4 in Hamburg might be different from a T4 in the Alps. But a T5 or D5 should always be the same. Either something IS a special tool or it's not. And don't tell me, 10+m fishing rod isn't.

So, the next question would be, is it a D5 or a T5? Both include tools! I'm for having them be a D5, as even a wheelchair person could do them and it usually is pretty easy to get to ground zero.

I also don't understand why you reviewers aren't able/willing to come up with at least a German rule that for. You guys do this for events, so, why not for these kinds of caches?

[+dprovan]

32 minutes ago, monsterbox said:

So, the next question would be, is it a D5 or a T5? Both include tools! I'm for having them be a D5, as even a wheelchair person could do them and it usually is pretty easy to get to ground zero.

I have no idea whether this is supported by any of the documents, but just by logic, I've always assumed that t5 meant you needed a special tool to get to GZ -- a boat or climbing gear, for example -- while d5 meant you needed a special tool such as a fishing rod to retrieve the cache once you got there.

[+GerandKat]

3 hours ago, monsterbox said:

with at least a German rule that for.

we don't have rules, we have guidelines, and could you please be so kind, and tell us: where do we find the guideline concerning D/T ratings?

There isn't a guideline about it. So we don't care, if you like to place a d5/t5 on a guard rail, that's okay for us. We might be inclined to ask once if you believe that this pumped up (you know the German term: Schw...vergleich) is correct, but if you tell us, that ths is correct, we're totally fine with that.

Our job is purely checking objectively if a listing is guideline compliant. D/T rating is purely subjectiv. (and yes our players would rather call a fishing rod a special equipment and we don't care, if you move to the container or move the container to you. If they ever are going to place a "biltema" traditional (spoiler they won't) they would list it as T4-T5)

A few years ago we had the German Reviewer Meeting (R.o.T.) in our hometown where we discussed wether we should have a fixed D/T for those kind of caches, and the reaction from the two HQ lackeys was clear: NO, D/T ratings is clearly COs decision, nothing we're reviewing (exept T1 is always wheelchair accessible).

 

3 hours ago, monsterbox said:

You guys do this for events,

 

No, we don't do that, D1 was a fix from HQ, and whatever you're doing with the T rating is up to you...

[+thebruce0]

12 hours ago, GerandKat said:

The battle on the correct D/T rating for fishing rod cache is nothing but a proxy battle: Those "brainless athlete" cachers who are in favor of high T ratings get mad about the "chubby programmer" now beeing able to get their T4.5/5 grid filled, and those "chubby programmers" get mad about those "brainless athlete" cachers filling their D4.5/5 grid with those fishing rod caches. (If your seeing some irony in this part, your irony detector is working fine, if not please proceed to the irony detector mechanic near you)

 

We have similar arguments about caches on little islands, or puzzles that can be solved with a simple solver, etc. if a cache can be easily completed not the way the CO intended, what should it be rated?  That's still up to the CO

 

Alternatively, the COs could just start rating your 'fishing' caches all 1.5/1.5's because of how commonplace and easy they are (with the special tool required attribute, of course) 

Hey if it's about the fun and adventure, not the stats and numbers...

[+niraD]

5 hours ago, monsterbox said:

But a T5 or D5 should always be the same. Either something IS a special tool or it's not.

What about situations where a tool is something most people carry with them every day in one area, but something few people own in another area?

[+GerandKat]

14 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Hey if it's about the fun and adventure, not the stats and numbers...

^this, a trillion times, ^this!

[+dubidubno]

What does "biltema" mean?

[+kunarion]

9 minutes ago, dubidubno said:

What does "biltema" mean?

I had a guess, so I did a little googling and found this:

"Biltema is community slang for Swedish tree caches."

"The nickname Biltema originates from the shop that is infamous for selling cheap rods that work perfectly for these caches."

 

So, I was way off with my guess.  

Edited July 7, 2022 by kunarion

[+Ms Maddy]

I went to log an Adventure Lab bonus cache a few days back and it had an attribute for a Special Tool. And the tree climbing attribute was crossed out. Problem though as it turned out to be a tree fishing geocache. Many COs put a tree fishing symbol in the title, at least. This cache did not have one. 

It was a short walk to GZ. However, if I'd driven or trekked for miles, I would not have been a happy camper to discover this Terrain 1.5 geocache was unable to be logged. AND the CO had the cheek to message me and say it was my own fault for showing up unprepared, as the cache had a Special Tool attribute. I have multiple tools in the kit that can be used for geocaching. But have no intention of purchasing (at some cost) a bulky fishing pole. Some cachers are out there with broken fishing poles as they're not designed for shoving up trees. 

 

Can HQ please sort out the tree fishing mess? I do not expect to be able to log every geocache. Particularly as I'm of small stature. But the proliferation of tree fishing in some areas is a runaway train. An attribute for a pole would be helpful and some way to filter them out.

 

AND perhaps AL bonus caches should be achievable by most of us? Thx. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Ms Maddy

[+Max and 99]

2 hours ago, Ms Maddy said:

I went to log an Adventure Lab bonus cache a few days back and it had an attribute for a Special Tool. And the tree climbing attribute was crossed out. Problem though as it turned out to be a tree fishing geocache. Many COs put a tree fishing symbol in the title, at least. This cache did not have one. 

It was a short walk to GZ. However, if I'd driven or trekked for miles, I would not have been a happy camper to discover this Terrain 1.5 geocache was unable to be logged. AND the CO had the cheek to message me and say it was my own fault for showing up unprepared, as the cache had a Special Tool attribute. I have multiple tools in the kit that can be used for geocaching. But have no intention of purchasing (at some cost) a bulky fishing pole. Some cachers are out there with broken fishing poles as they're not designed for shoving up trees. 

 

Can HQ please sort out the tree fishing mess? I do not expect to be able to log every geocache. Particularly as I'm of small stature. But the proliferation of tree fishing in some areas is a runaway train. An attribute for a pole would be helpful and some way to filter them out.

 

AND perhaps AL bonus caches should be achievable by most of us? Thx. 

I can't even find a recent AL bonus of yours with 1.5T that has a special tool attribute. 

Since the help center does not advise the placing of bonus caches for ALs, I do not foresee any push to make them accessible by most. Even the Adventure Labs themselves can be inaccessible to some.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Max and 99

[+Ms Maddy]

On 11/21/2022 at 1:16 PM, Max and 99 said:

I can't even find a recent AL bonus of yours with 1.5T that has a special tool attribute. 

Since the help center does not advise the placing of bonus caches for ALs, I do not foresee any push to make them accessible by most. Even the Adventure Labs themselves can be inaccessible to some.

What do you mean, you can't find an AL bonus of mine with a special tool attribute? It's not my geocache. 

 

I posted a note on an AL bonus cache that I could see hanging way up in a tree. The CO responded to my note, telling me to obtain a fishing pole. No interest in doing that. Not now, not ever. 

 

"Even if I get it down from its perch, I have no way of replacing the cache 🤷‍♀️"

 

What I'd like to see is a tree fishing attribute, so I can filter them off the map. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Ms Maddy

[+Max and 99]

1 hour ago, Ms Maddy said:

It's not my geocache.

Ones you found. 

Edit: just found a video to watch to see what a biltema geocache is, as I've never found one. Learned something new. The one I watched was way up high!! 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Max and 99

[+niraD]

57 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Ones you found. 

And apparently, Ms Maddy didn't find it either (because it's an elevated cache designed to be retrieved with a special tool).

[+Ms Maddy]

On 11/23/2022 at 3:20 PM, niraD said:

And apparently, Ms Maddy didn't find it either (because it's an elevated cache designed to be re

trieved with a special tool).

Correct... I did not log the cache as it was out of reach. 

 

And you can't see my notes or DNFs. 

[+HHL]

1 hour ago, Ms Maddy said:

And you can't see my notes or DNFs. 

 

Quote

19.11.2022 By Ms Maddy | Found: 10311 Even if I get it down from its perch, I have no way of replacing the cache ?????

Edited November 24, 2022 by HHL

[+Propagandaminister]

Over two years have passed and nothing has changed - while Biltema caches spread like crazy.

It happens now very often that when planning a cache trip, that at least one Biltema cache sneaks in unrecognized - so disappoinment is predetermined when realizing the cache could not be reached.

 

While preparing and filtering the planned caches list it is possible to locate the caches with unusual high D/T rating or particular words in the name, but not all owners use one of these methods.

The special tool attribute does not really help, it applies to many caches and is commonly used for items which are considerd standard ECA - most of these "special tools" which fit is a small bag are always carried with me (telescopic mirror, magnet, flashlight, UV-light, multitool, screwdrivers, string, tape etc..).

 

What I do not want on hour long trips is to carry some large pieces of equipment like climbing gear, scuba gear or 10 m telescoping poles with me, just in case.

On 6/19/2022 at 6:26 PM, Hügh said:

-

• Ladder required
• Lock-picking kit required
• Screwdriver/drill required
• Magnet required
• Non-standard logbook (ie. scratching name into wood, CD, or other non-paper materials; need the right tool for that!)
• QR-code scanning device required
• Internet connection required
• Writing implement required
• Geocache-finding skills required

Where do you draw the line?

And this is exactly where to draw the line, all things that can not be carried around easily (not part of standard ECA) and are commonly required on geocaches.
From your list a Ladder qualifies without doubt, drill is also a larger piece of equipment and lock picking is open to discussion.
 
Second step is to consider how common the requirement is.
As a  worldwide cacher I can tell you that Biltema caches are factor 10-100 higher than ladder lockpicking and drill are.
 
Yes it depends on the region, Biltema is mainly common in Europe - but what does that mean?
To get in idea of the worldwide share, lets look at the numbers:

 

(These are all countries with more than 5k active caches, as of 9.3.2025)

 

So even with Germany alone as one of the Biltema hotspots, being the 2nd largest Geocaching territory should be enough that the issues of the Geocaching community should be taken seriously by the HQ.
But with the rise of Biltema in other countries like UK, France, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Czechia, Poland, Austria, Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Denmark and Slovakia

the region to be considered now contains about half of the Geocaches worldwide!
 
So please do something about this issue.
If a new attribute or binding rules for D/T-rating, we just want a solution.

 
Here are some considerations which are common sense for us cachers in Northern Europe, but might be new to other regions cachers:
 

• Biltema is a synonymous for a long lightweight telescopic pole (like Kleenex for paper napkins in some regions).
  While the original purpose was intended for fly fishing, it became universal in other fields, e.g. antenna pol, long tripod for photography, Geocaching etc.
• A Biltema should not be called fishing rod to avoid misunderstanding.
  A standard fishing rod with a reel is not long nor stable enough to grab the container.
• Biltema rods are available at official Geocaching Shops. In fact when searching for Biltema rods, many online shops list Geocaching as its main purpose.
  https://geoversand24.de/shop/en/carbon-rod-10-meter-hook-for-biltema-caches-4321
• Files for 3D printed Biltema hooks can be downloaded from the internet for free.
  For example here: https://www.thingiverse.com/ritschwumm/collections/43083878/things
• Biltema caches usually cannot be reached by climbing or other means – they are only reached by rods or poles.
  There is a codex to choose trees or places which do not allow climbing, to prevent people to put themselves into danger.
• To make sure to reach all locations it is recommended to have a Biltema rod with a minimal length of 10 m
• While not impossible, it is very unlikely to reach a well hung Biltema container with an improvised tool.
  I tried myself with constructions of tree branches, broom sticks and standard fishing rod – without success.
• Many Biltema owners follow an inofficial rule to mark the cache T4 which works for me.
  
  Why T-rating?
  The hard part is to physically reach the container, which is governed by the surroundings - rocks and trees are part of the terrain.
  
  Why T4?
  The T-rating must be high, to show it is actually hard to get close to the hiding spot.
  Holding the Biltema looking up and fumbling around makes you sweat and hurts in the neck after some time, but there are still caches
  that physically more demanding, like with climbing gear or scuba diving. Hence no T5 rating, for the Biltema.

Thank you!

Edited March 9 by Propagandaminister

[+baer2006]

1 hour ago, Propagandaminister said:

Here are some considerations which are common sense for us cachers in Northern Europe, but might be new to other regions cachers:

Here (Bavaria), in not quite so Northern Europe, much of what you call "common sense" is not common at all...

 

1 hour ago, Propagandaminister said:

Biltema is a synonymous for a long lightweight telescopic pole (like Kleenex for paper napkins in some regions).

None of the cachers here is actively using the term "Biltema".

 

1 hour ago, Propagandaminister said:

There is a codex to choose trees or places which do not allow climbing, to prevent people to put themselves into danger.

True for many of them, but definitely not all.

 

1 hour ago, Propagandaminister said:

To make sure to reach all locations it is recommended to have a Biltema rod with a minimal length of 10 m

Around here it's 8m. My rod is that long, and of hundreds of these fishing caches I attempted, ecactly one was too high.

 

1 hour ago, Propagandaminister said:

While not impossible, it is very unlikely to reach a well hung Biltema container with an improvised tool.

Happens all the time. Often leads to the cache "wandering" downwards, because people cannot replace it as high as it was with the improvised tool.

 

1 hour ago, Propagandaminister said:

Many Biltema owners follow an inofficial rule to mark the cache T4 which works for me.

Here most owners give a high D rating (D4 to D5), only a minority uses high T (and then usually T5).

 

 

And something on the actual topic: Almost all owners here use the "Special tool" attribute, and explicitly say what is needed (a pole) in the listing and/or the hint. Which is totally fine for me.

[+The Leprechauns]

On 6/18/2022 at 10:38 PM, The Leprechauns said:

I've found more than 1,000 caches rated T3 or higher, and more than 1,000 caches rated D3 or higher, across 45 states in the USA.  I have never seen one single cache that required a fishing pole to hook a container from up in a tree.

 

A new attribute needs to be relevant worldwide.  I would not look forward to explaining what "biltema" means to geocachers who are curious about when to use such an attribute.

 

I like the idea of using the "no tree climbing required" and "special tool required" attributes in combination.  This would allow filtering out biltema caches where those attributes are properly applied, without sweeping in too many non-biltema caches.

 

I am happy that this thread was bumped, because it gave me an opportunity to re-read my answer from more than two years ago.  Since that time, I've moved to a new area where it's become relatively common to hide caches that are hooked to a tree branch, requiring a telescoping pole with a hook in order to retrieve and replace the cache.  It all started when one of our friends placed a challenging cache series in our favorite park.  His instructions for the first cache in the series said "Some caches require special tools (the tools you need may include long grabber pole (mine is 18 feet) UV light, tweezers or hemostats, flashlight)."  So, that's when we bought a telescoping disc golf retrieval pole with various attachments.  We've since found about 25 caches that required use of our TOTT.  We've enjoyed the retrieval challenge and the related hikes.  All of the cache pages either state explicitly that a retrieval pole is needed, or they use the attribute combination suggested earlier in this thread:  "no tree climbing required" and "special tool required."  They are easy to spot, provided that I read the cache page.

 

Wise people say that "geocaching is a global game, played locally."  Biltema caches work just fine in my locality.  There's not an annoyingly high number of them, and they're pretty easy to spot by reading the cache page.  This sounds like a problem for the local community in Northern Europe to solve.

[+Mausebiber]

I have my fishing pole always with me, it is very short, fits easily in my backpack, weights almost nothing and expanded is 7.2 m long.  With my stretched arm, I can reach everything up to 8 m.

 

 

[+HHL]

33 minutes ago, The Leprechauns said:

This sounds like a problem for the local community in Northern Europe to solve.

Your knowledge of European sensibilities seems somewhat incomplete. The most relaxed (in every aspect) people in Europe are those from the north (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark). It seems you meant the fussy Germans, right?

[+capsai]

I don't really think that a new attribute is needful. Special tool attribute exist, some owners adds a fishing emoji in the cache title and there are even informations in listings, what kind of tool is required.

 

But also to be honest: as someone who is annoyed by biltema only trails coming and going in my region, i would like to have a kind of ban or moratorium or saturation rule for biltema caches.

[+HHL]

9 minutes ago, capsai said:

But also to be honest: as someone who is annoyed by biltema only trails coming and going in my region, i would like to have a kind of ban or moratorium or saturation rule for biltema caches.

The Ignore List is your friend.

Frohes Jagen

Hans

[+barefootjeff]

6 hours ago, Propagandaminister said:

Many Biltema owners follow an inofficial rule to mark the cache T4 which works for me.

Why T-rating?
The hard part is to physically reach the container, which is governed by the surroundings - rocks and trees are part of the terrain.

Why T4?
The T-rating must be high, to show it is actually hard to get close to the hiding spot.
Holding the Biltema looking up and fumbling around makes you sweat and hurts in the neck after some time, but there are still caches
that physically more demanding, like with climbing gear or scuba diving. Hence no T5 rating, for the Biltema.

 

The Regional Wiki here (New South Wales, Australia) says that the difficulty of maniplating your pole to access and return the cache should be in the D rating, not the T rating:

 

Given that this directive originated from HQ, I'm a little surprised that Europe has gone the other way.

 

6 hours ago, Propagandaminister said:

It happens now very often that when planning a cache trip, that at least one Biltema cache sneaks in unrecognized - so disappoinment is predetermined when realizing the cache could not be reached.

 

If I'm caching in an area with a fair number of caches, there'll usually be a few I can't find for whatever reason but it doesn't ruin my day, it's just part of caching life. I once did a train trip to the Illawarra coast south of Sydney (requiring 3 trains and taking about 3 hours each way) where there was a bunch of 2/4 caches I needed for a challenge I was working towards. Out of the 5 caches, I only found 1, an EarthCache. A little disappointing, yes, but it was still a fun day out and at least I didn't DNF all of them.

 

All that said, I wouldn't object to an attribute for pole-fishing caches. Some time back, the Regional Wiki recommended using the combination of the No Tree Climbing Required and Special Tool Required attributes for them but that was later removed. The more prolific hiders of these caches, though, still use that combination of attributes.

[+baer2006]

45 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

The Regional Wiki here (New South Wales, Australia) says that the difficulty of maniplating your pole to access and return the cache should be in the D rating, not the T rating:

 

Given that this directive originated from HQ, I'm a little surprised that Europe has gone the other way.

As I said in my other post, Europe has not "gone the other way" unanimously. In my area, it's usually a high D rating. With basically the same reasoning as what you quoted.

[+arisoft]

19 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Given that this directive originated from HQ, I'm a little surprised that Europe has gone the other way.

 

I have made my first fishing (Biltema) cache at year 2010. It is T5 because reaching the cache without a special tool was difficult. I know that some players climbed the tree but T4 was still too low for this kind of hide. I don't buy the explanation that using a pole is anyway difficult. In Finland, practically all fishing caches are high terrain T3,5 to T5. Usually T5 with special tool attribute. High terrain attribute is good warning sign for the players not to rush to the cache without checking first what is the challenge.

 

Today I was caching with my e-bike and had no pole with me. All caches were T4 or T5. I found all of them without a fishing pole because at every cache there was a fallen tree branch on ground to use as a pole.

 

I understand that obscure guidelines from HQ have led to this confusion. That is why there are different interpretations about this subject between areas. But saying that a fishing pole is not a special tool is absurd. Even a flashlight has its own attribute. I support this new attribute for fishing caches because the HQ has originally failed to write clear guidelines in this regard.

 

 

[+barefootjeff]

1 hour ago, arisoft said:

But saying that a fishing pole is not a special tool is absurd.

 

They didn't say it's not a Special Tool, they said it's not Specialised Equipment. Although the words are similar, they have quite distinct meanings. Specialised Equipment is stuff to get you to the cache, like a boat, climbing gear, scuba gear, etc., whereas a Special Tool is something to locate, retrieve and open the cache, like a magnet, flashlight, screwdriver, grabber tool and yes, a fishing pole.

[+arisoft]

3 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Specialised Equipment is stuff to get you to the cache, like a boat, climbing gear, scuba gear, etc., whereas a Special Tool is something to locate, retrieve and open the cache, like a magnet, flashlight, screwdriver, grabber tool and yes, a fishing pole.

 

This is the original definition when I published my first fishing pole cache

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20110122075152/http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=82

 

Quote

 

D5 Extreme
A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache.

 

T5 Requires specialized equipment and knowledge or experience
(boat, 4WD, rock climbing, SCUBA, etc.) or is otherwise extremely difficult.

 

 

If the fishing pole is not a specialized equipment then it does not belong to either group.  I have seen a trend towards this practice.

 

[+katrinundgerwin]

We can confirm that the former lead of the Community Volunteer Service Team in 2018 explicitly told the German Reviewing team not to go into fights about D/T ratings (root cause was one colleague who wouldn't publish any fishing rod caches with a T5 rating). 

These were also the last comments we've  read in the reviewers forums a few weeks ago (since we retired after 11years of service for the frog).

 

We don't believe in a fundamental change about that topic in the last few weeks.

 

The discussion about D/T ratings on fishing rod caches is a proxy discussion: The sportive, hardcore (and a little simpleminded) climber elite gets mad if a chubby (and very smart) programmer gets those hard earned T5 caches with a simple fishing rod, and the chubby (and very smart) programmer gets mad if the sportive, hardcore (and a little simpleminded) climber elite get those D5 caches with a simple fishing rod.

 

Back on topic: why should the Geocaching HQ use expensive Dev time to change something that isn't broken. Rather than that, tell those COs who won't mark their cache properly if they want their caches to be found.

 

 

[+arisoft]

8 hours ago, katrinundgerwin said:

The discussion about D/T ratings on fishing rod caches is a proxy discussion: The sportive, hardcore (and a little simpleminded) climber elite gets mad if a chubby (and very smart) programmer gets those hard earned T5 caches with a simple fishing rod, and the chubby (and very smart) programmer gets mad if the sportive, hardcore (and a little simpleminded) climber elite get those D5 caches with a simple fishing rod.

 

You nailed it. This is exactly the way I see what is happening. For the record, some elite climbers used, without permission, to tie those "Biltema" caches permanently to the tree to prevent finding them without a glimbing gear. Exactly for this reason you explained.

 

8 hours ago, katrinundgerwin said:

Back on topic: why should the Geocaching HQ use expensive Dev time to change something that isn't broken.

 

New attribute could solve this problem created by ambiguous wording of guidelines about the level 5 rating. Am I guessing right that there is no proper guideline even now. Only some regional advice, like in Australia?

Edited March 10 by arisoft

[+The Leprechauns]

On 3/9/2025 at 1:26 PM, HHL said:

On 3/9/2025 at 12:46 PM, The Leprechauns said:

This sounds like a problem for the local community in Northern Europe to solve.

Your knowledge of European sensibilities seems somewhat incomplete. The most relaxed (in every aspect) people in Europe are those from the north (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark). It seems you meant the fussy Germans, right?

 

My post merely parroted the words used by @Propagandaminister, who bumped this thread.  If there are issues about European sensibilities to be ironed out, I suggest that you resolve them directly.

 

From your other posts to this thread, it would appear that you and I are on the same page.  If there were too many of any type of cache in my local area that I didn't want to find, I would use the Ignore List.  Mine's mainly full of puzzles that I have no hope or desire of ever solving.

[+HHL]

18 minutes ago, The Leprechauns said:

From your other posts to this thread, it would appear that you and I are on the same page.  If there were too many of any type of cache in my local area that I didn't want to find, I would use the Ignore List.  Mine's mainly full of puzzles that I have no hope or desire of ever solving.

Definitely yes to every statement.

Frohes Jagen

Hans

[+niraD]

13 hours ago, The Leprechauns said:

If there were too many of any type of cache in my local area that I didn't want to find, I would use the Ignore List.  Mine's mainly full of puzzles that I have no hope or desire of ever solving.

All I have on mine are challenge caches that I'll never complete the challenge for.

[+ecanderson]

Perhaps Colorado is different from much of the rest of North America, but the need for a telescoping pole has been a 'thing' here for many years.  Not only are they used for retrieving 

'hanging' caches from trees, they are necessary for retrieving magnetic caches from high up on steel posts and poles (large highway signs, light poles, electrical towers, athletic field scoreboards, etc.). 

 

 

 

 

[+Marty]

In my opinion, it would be adequate to distinguish this specific type of cache with an attribute.
The fact that there is no distinction for this now widely used type of cache causes considerable problems. Players include this type in the cache name or use a combination of two attributes. Neither of these options seems optimal to me.
There are players who specialize in catching this type of cache and find it quite difficult to navigate.
In short, I personally think that this specific type of cache deserves this distinction.

[+ecanderson]

On 3/25/2025 at 1:11 AM, Marty said:

In short, I personally think that this specific type of cache deserves this distinction.

If the concern is having a cacher show up without the appropriate tool, then add the information about this requirement to the description.  An attribute won't change the fact that the cacher now knows type style of the hide.

 

Otherwise, "Special Tool Required" should be sufficient to provide warning.

 

[+Numanoid]

On 3/9/2025 at 3:57 PM, baer2006 said:

 

None of the cachers here is actively using the term "Biltema".

 

You can partially blame the reviewers for that. Some of them said, the use of this term counts as advertising and is therefore not allowed.
So most of the newer cachers aren´t familiar with it anymore. 
Maybe it´s just a bavarian thing, you guys certainly are peculiar. 

[+arisoft]

7 minutes ago, Numanoid said:

You can partially blame the reviewers for that. Some of them said, the use of this term counts as advertising and is therefore not allowed.
So most of the newer cachers aren´t familiar with it anymore. 
Maybe it´s just a bavarian thing, you guys certainly are peculiar. 

 

I have bought two poles from Motonet, not Biltema. In Finland no one is using on even know this Biltema cache meaning even though here are many Biltema stores.

Edited April 15 by arisoft