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Central Valley Cachers

Fattuhr

By Fattuhr
in West and Southwest

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C&MMorris

+C&MMorris

Posted
Posted

Great points Ron. Dont change your caches at all. NOT EVEN YOUR CLUES!!!! I think your caches are a blast. Some times your CLUES make it a REAL CHALLENGE. Like showing a nice outcropping of rocks when the cache is not close to the rock pile icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Like I said before when I made my comment I wasnt thinking of any one person or group.

 

I really dont care if a person logs a DNF on one of my caches or not as long as they had fun. That's what this GAME is all about right, haveing fun!!!

 

I just dont like it when people whine over there first attempt when they cant find it. And NO I'M NOT POINTING FINGERS!!!!!

 

Anyway, Tammi said it, We are all Adults here so we should act like it.

 

As Forrest Gump would say... That's all I have to say about that.

 

I hope everyone has a good weekend and remember... HAVE FUN WHILE GEOCACHING!!!!!!!!!!

 

Mike

 

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

 

[This message was edited by C&MMorris on November 01, 2002 at 09:31 AM.]

 

[This message was edited by C&MMorris on November 01, 2002 at 09:32 AM.]

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fizzymagic

+fizzymagic

Posted
Posted

Your points are all quite good, Ron. When we cache in a group, we do what you described; everyone has to find it on their own. I usually spot the cache, go look someplace else for a few minutes, and then casually mention that I found it.

 

But there is one big difference between that and searching on your own: in a group, if it's there and anyone finds it, then eventually everyone will find it, even if it takes a while.

 

Thus my question: Ron, have you ever been present at one of your caches when somebody searched, could not find it, gave up, and went home? If so, then I am impressed, and I'd love to see the log that generated! But I don't recall ever reading such a log.

 

By the way, I am not taking (or meaning) anything personally here. I've been doing online discussion for a long, long time and I know that often things come out looking a lot harsher than intended. So unless you really try, you are unlikely to offend me.

 

If you really want to see nasty, you ought to see magicians' discussion boards! Yow.

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Ron Streeter

Ron Streeter

Posted
Posted

...not sure I understand your question. Do you mean have I been at a cache I placed where I was watching others try to find it and they did not?

 

If that is the question, then the answer would be no. I have several times watched people look for one I had placed. After a while they were so far away I would steer them within 10 feet or so.

 

After more time would go by, I might steer them within 4 feet. Usually then, they would find it.

 

******

 

If this is not what you meant, please rewrite it for me.

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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Green Achers

+Green Achers

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by LuvOzzy:

My two cents on logging DNF's:

 

I don't use the DNF feature. If I go out to look for a cache and don't find it, I will then make another trip and try again. I did use the frowny face on Dragonfly after my second trip was a failure. In that situation, I might post a DNF...or if the cache is somewhere that I don't care anything about revisiting.

 

Ya, Jaimee. That works great. I think the topic (which has been beat to death) is more about people that never post the DNF therefor never informing the responsible to do a check up.

 

When I do my frown faces, I make a great effort to return and turn that frown upside down. I also try to make it clear if it was my failure (like not having enough time - or incompetence - or whatever). That way the owner knows whats going on without alarming them or other cachers without merrit.

 

Just thought I'd say that as you looked a little spurred on the subject... but I think everyone pritty much agrees with you.

 

Now what about those people that never give the DNF feedback! Is there no honor? icon_biggrin.gif

 

Looks feel a cache dash coming on...

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"Happy Trails make Happy Tails."

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Green Achers

+Green Achers

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by fizzymagic:

Thus my question: Ron, have you ever been present at one of your caches when somebody searched, could not find it, gave up, and went home? If so, then I am impressed, and I'd love to see the log that generated! But I don't recall ever reading such a log.

 

Hey Fizzy,

 

Welcome home (late, I know). Did you read my last hunt log? I was at ''Bullwinkle Is Looking For His Friend'' at spent over an hour. While hunting, I had a couple different people pass by and I'm sure one new cacher that gave up waiting for me to leave (I was just sitting there doing nothing - waiting for him to leave).

 

Finally, I gave up for the day and started to leave and ran into two other new cachers. We had a great talk and then parted ways. They were unable to find the cache too, but then three more cachers followed them and were successful.

 

It was a real freeway of cachers so I posted a frown and poked fun at myself. It was fun hunting (darn I didn't find it) and it was fun writting about it and seeing how everything fell in place after my posting.

 

I'll be back... maybe tomorrow is free as the Diamonds are all up. (I withheld enough for my obligations).

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"Happy Trails make Happy Tails."

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Ron Streeter

Ron Streeter

Posted
Posted

...alrighty then ! Let's explore your question further.

 

If YOU had been the one I was watching looking for one of my caches, how would YOU feel if I didn't steer you to it finally...still allowing you to find it?

 

I don't think I would keep many caching friends if I said...*tough ! Maybe you'll find it another time.*

 

On the other hand, handing out further hints through email is tough too. I guess I am *teasing* people a bit if I give them a further email clue and they STILL can't solve it. Hard to tell how much of a clue to give.

 

The whole *your clue stinks* issue makes me sometimes want to eliminate a clue altogether. This would make a cache search the same for every single person who went after a cache as no *interpretation* or *misinterpretation* could take place.

 

I know I use the clues a fair amount when I go looking. This is especially true if it's a LONG clue I don't want to decipher in the field...I print it out at home. Then it's a few days before I go, and if I'm going for 6 or so, I've forgotten which clue goes with which cache, and I don't look at the clue unless i just can't find it. And of course, some of the clues are...well, clueless.

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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Green Achers

+Green Achers

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Streeter:

The whole *your clue stinks* issue makes me sometimes want to eliminate a clue altogether. This would make a cache search the same for every single person who went after a cache as no *interpretation* or *misinterpretation* could take place.

 

I need to agree with those feelings... I've always found your clues to stick... right up to the point that I find the cache and realize that the clue was fantastic. Therefore, I'd say the only people that think one of your clues doesn't pass the smell test just didn't understand it.

 

The clue is your chance (your = any cache creator) to portray your cleverness. It also weeds out the weak. icon_biggrin.gif (Talk about fighting words!!) icon_biggrin.gif

 

So just keep doing what you're good at and let the cache hunters come as they will. You can't please all the people all the time. But you CAN confuse most of the people most of the time. icon_wink.gif

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"Happy Trails make Happy Tails."

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fizzymagic

+fizzymagic

Posted
Posted

I agree with you about giving cachers clues when you're with them; that is part of why I like caching in a group sometimes.

 

In fact, the very fact that somebody knows the cache is still there is a big piece of information. If I am hunting a cache that nobody has seen for a couple of months, I am more likely to give up earlier than I would be if I were certain that the cache was actually present. I could go on and give a long exposition on Bayes theorem and how it relates, but I'll spare everyone. icon_wink.gif

 

As to stinky hints: I've really only done that once to you. Well, OK, twice, but the first one doesn't count since I was an immature young cacher. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

I've also had people tell me that some of my hints stink. I generally don't take it too seriously, and I often email the person offering to help more if I can. It's fun to make caches hard, but I try not to make them so frustrating that the cacher doesn't have a good time. The point for me is to challenge the cacher to think about the cache and maybe learn something, not for me to prove that I'm smarter than they are. (Not that I think anybody around here does that, BTW).

 

But I do disagree in one way; I think that negative feedback on caches is just as important as positive feedback. When I hear people characterize any less-than-glowing log for a cache as "whining," I am uncomfortable.

 

As a cache placer, I think it is my responsibility to make the search a fun experience; if somebody didn't have fun, I need to know that just as much as I enjoy hearing when people did have fun. A criticism of one of my caches is not a criticism of me; I try to look at it as an opportunity to improve the cache. I know you do, too, since I've seen you make excellent improvements to your caches based on user feedback.

 

A couple of other things related to this discussion: I will sometimes leave criticism at caches I find as well as those that I don't. Such was the case for a multicache at Disney World I did last week. One of the stages required getting information that kept getting changed about once a month. The hider kept updating the description after a few people couldn't find the cache because of the changed information. I pointed out that since most people are at Disney World on vacation, they can't check the Internet every day to see the updated description. So I suggested using something more permanent as the intermediate step.

 

There was a cache at Epcot that I'd been wanting to do for a long time. It's a physical cache, extremely well-hidden. Since I was at the park with a guy who had already found it, I raced ahead so that I could find it before he had a chance to give me any additional hints. It was more fun that way.

 

Finally, I did a few caches in the DC area. Since my meetings ran all day, I ended up doing them all at night in the rain. It certainly adds to the challenge! I enjoyed making them harder for myself by doing them that way.

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Ron Streeter

Ron Streeter

Posted
Posted

...you are not the only one who has criticized my caches (clues or otherwise), but you ARE on a short list !

 

I think that any crictism (or comment) that is going on about other peoples' criticisms is just trying to clear the air a bit, and several people have hit the nail on the head when they have said....*you can't please everyone*.

 

There is another old *mom's* saying that could apply too, though I personally would be hard-pressed to apply it...*If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all*.

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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Fallen

+Fallen

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by ZachNLiam:

Are we adults here? icon_confused.gif I honesly can't believe people are complaining about DNF's.

 

To me geocaching is a fun game. You win some, you lose some. It's not my life, it's a wonderful pastime where I have met some really great people.

 

Anyway, just my 2 cents. Can't we all just get along??? icon_biggrin.gif

 

Tammi

 

http://www.garmin.com/graphics/guy.gif

http://www.jamzcheer.com/cvcth.jpg

 

I really wasn't complaining or anything, I just wanted to know if people logged them or not. I really could care less if they do or don't. So... We are all just getting along.

 

70546_800.gif

 

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

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C&MMorris

+C&MMorris

Posted
Posted

I went and cheched on some caches today.....

 

Kassie's cache in roberts ferry is still there and everything is in good shape.

 

The Fern Gully cache is no longer a fern cache. Fizzy is right, The Ferns are gone. All the vegatations around the cache is gone for that matter. I took the cache from under it's rock and I might replace it when the plants grow back.

Fizzy- You,Pepper and Jimswim can log it as a find since you 3 looked for so long. But again I took it.

 

Michael Jr.'s cache was destroyed. I only found a couple of pieces of what was in the cache. I did put some new stuff in a new container and put it back close to where it was. It will now be a 2 part cache. It will hopefully be a better cache the next time cachers go and look for it.

 

Sweet tarts and Kassie's cache will be checked on tomorrow. Hopefully they will be in better shape.

 

Mike

 

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

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C&MMorris

+C&MMorris

Posted
Posted

It's a beautiful spot at the right time of year. You know what the gully looks like. Imagine that Gully a beautiful green full of ferns. It's amazing that a little spot like that is in an area like that. I hope you 3 go back when it green and pretty. Mike

 

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

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Pepper

+Pepper

Posted
Posted

Well hi ya'll, gosh I have been out of the loop only for a day or two and look at all this talk and on that note I take the 5th! icon_biggrin.gif

No matter what is said I still LOVE my caching, with my partners or all by myself. I even find them all by myself without any help sometimes icon_wink.gif.

 

Have a great weekend and CACHE ON!

Pepper

 

Horizontals where it's at!

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fizzymagic

+fizzymagic

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by C&MMorris:

I hope you 3 go back when it green and pretty.

 

We will, I promise. Even if there is no cache there, I want to see it in its green state. I could kind of imagine it while we were there, but it was hard...

 

That brings up an interesting question: what about seasonal caches? Should some caches get disabled during the summer because they are too hot or whatever, and then re-enabled in the winter? Caches in the Sierra do this automatically, when the roads get closed for the winter.

 

I'm looking forward to doing a bunch of hiking caches I have been putting off until the green season. Has anyone else been deliberately postponing some caches until winter?

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Pepper

+Pepper

Posted
Posted

only if Fizzy drives!

 

Yes we will be back to the Valley to do more caching and it WILL be fun. We will also each find the caches all on our own because we can icon_biggrin.gif

I guess I just can't keep quite that's just not me.

When we head out ya'lls way just be ready to a call WHAAAMBULANCE! icon_razz.gif hehehe

 

Pepper

 

Horizontals where it's at!

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Brute-Force

+Brute-Force

Posted
Posted

Has anyone seen this cache page yet? http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=41125. I drove past it this morning on my way to San Jose. (yes, I do know the way). The closer I got, the bigger and taller and steeper it became. As I got right up to it, I decided to just keep on going! Now that looked a bit fearsome. I'd like to go back and get it but I'd rather not be alone. Any takers want to meet me there? icon_smile.gif

 

If a little Brute Force doesn't work, try using a lot!

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georgeandmary

+georgeandmary

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Brute-Force:

Has anyone seen this cache page yet? http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=41125. I drove past it this morning on my way to San Jose. (yes, I do know the way). The closer I got, the bigger and taller and steeper it became. As I got right up to it, I decided to just keep on going! Now that looked a bit fearsome. I'd like to go back and get it but I'd rather not be alone. Any takers want to meet me there? icon_smile.gif

 

If a little Brute Force doesn't work, try using a lot!

 

It's a good 45 minute drive for me. I'll save it for the next time I'm going to morgan hill or monterey. Three day weekend is coming up. I'll let you know if I head that way.

 

george

 

39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

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Naitram

+Naitram

Posted
Posted

It's great...i've been out midnight caching with DJ_Keith 3 times (Fallen joined us this last night) and tonight makes the third time we've been stopped by a cop. well...the second was just a security guard, but still. And every time we were being nicely behaved little citizens, just, behaving a bit oddly icon_wink.gif

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georgeandmary

+georgeandmary

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Naitram:

It's great...i've been out midnight caching with DJ_Keith 3 times (Fallen joined us this last night) and tonight makes the third time we've been stopped by a cop. well...the second was just a security guard, but still. And every time we were being nicely behaved little citizens, just, behaving a bit oddly icon_wink.gif

 

Considering you were caching in the Tuolumne River park, I'm not suprized that a cop questioned 3 guys poking around in the bushes. Pun intented.

 

george

 

39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

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C&MMorris

+C&MMorris

Posted
Posted

OK all you high tech. computer people. I have another computer question for you. HOW DO YOU STOP ALL THOSE STUPID!!!!!! POP UP WINDOWS FROM COMING UP EVERYTIME YOUR TRYING TO VIEW SOMETHING ON THE INTERNET????

Those darn things are driving me crazy. everytime I log into the forum 2 pop up right away. PLEASE HELP!!!!!

 

Mike the computer dummy.

 

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

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fizzymagic

+fizzymagic

Posted
Posted

Uh oh.

 

If you've got windows popping up all over the place, then you have what is commonly known as "spyware." Because geocaching.com isn't putting up those windows!

 

Spyware is nasty little software that installs itself along with another program, usually some freeware thingie. Since the software is supposedly installed on purpose, it isn't removed by antivirus programs.

 

But luckily there is a way to get rid of it! Go to www.lavasoft.de and download Ad-aware. It works like a virus scanner, but removes spyware instead. I've used it for a couple of years and swear by it.

 

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

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Naitram

+Naitram

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by georgeandmary:

 

Considering you were caching in the Tuolumne River park, I'm not suprized that a cop questioned 3 guys poking around in the bushes. Pun intented.

 

george

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

 

specially considering all the stuff that was being picked out of socks and brushed off of jackets...probly looked like we'd just finished a nice roll in the weeds. is there *ANY* park you can go to that's not a pickup location anymore? jeez.

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georgeandmary

+georgeandmary

Posted
Posted

Fallen and the other bush beaters had a little fun night caching. I heard the story about cache ninja today and it was quite funny. It had lots to do with the group cachers not wanting to spoil the find for the others. Maybe he'll share it at the pizza party but he might not be able to unless all the locals go find it.

 

Wouldn't want to spoil the surprize.

 

george

 

39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

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Green Achers

+Green Achers

Posted
Posted

Hey Ron! Are you up yet?? Lets go caching... We're burning non-Daylight.

 

Just kidding. I'm pulling an all nighter. Probably shouldn't be on the road tomorrow (Or is that Today) 'cause no sleep makes you drive like your drunk. Worse yet, how would I respond to any Police after being awake for two days? Probably talk drunk too.

 

Speaking of Police. What did you guys tell the cops the other night? Did you confirm their suspicions about your group (wink) or did you tell them you were using a 14 billion dollar Government system and couldn't talk about it? LOL

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"Happy Trails make Happy Tails."

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georgeandmary

+georgeandmary

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Brute-Force:

Does anyone else use and have problems loading up the state map to look for caches? It can literally take me hours to zero in on a few caches. Always timeing out on me. Don't know if it's the site or my settings.

 

If a little Brute Force doesn't work, try using a lot!

It comes, it goes. I don't rely on it too much. I just load everything I can into my gps and go for the closest cache.

 

george

 

39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

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Green Achers

+Green Achers

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Brute-Force:

Does anyone else use and have problems loading up the state map to look for caches? It can literally take me hours to zero in on a few caches. Always timeing out on me. Don't know if it's the site or my settings.

 

If a little Brute Force doesn't work, try using a lot!

 

Hey Mr. Force. You think you have slow service? Try using an old farm phone line with a half dozen slices between the new service lines and our house service box.

 

We replaced the whole houses wiring to a Cat-3 network. Then we tested the service coming to the house and found out it sucks. The phone company said they will only replace it if I dig the trenches. (I'm not sure if that includes crossing the road to the poles).

 

Until the trenching, we have been through all this slow stuff. It turns out that Netscape Communicator is much slower than Internet Explorer. Also, minimize all those extras that may waste your phone line. Timing out is either an application setting or your ISP is cutting you off. (We dropped Earthlink because they cut you off if you're ''Inactive'' which it what it looks like when down loading).

 

Better yet, just get off the phone line and enjoy the speed of cable. (Our only options are the phone line or phone line up load$ plu$ $atilite down load$). I feel for you on the slow maps. Just use the ''nearby caches'' link on any cache.

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"Happy Trails make Happy Tails."

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Naitram

+Naitram

Posted
Posted

Well, this last encounter consisted of:"

cop: you guys just leaving?

me: yup

cop: okay, don't get many cars out this late

me: yup

 

the other two times were much more confrontational, and i figured it would be a lot easier to be honest than to try to get them to believe we were doing a statewide banana slug inventory, and we were out at nite since they're nocturnal. (are they?)

 

quote:
Originally posted by Green Achers:

*snip*

 

Speaking of Police. What did you guys tell the cops the other night? Did you confirm their suspicions about your group (wink) or did you tell them you were using a 14 billion dollar Government system and couldn't talk about it? LOL

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"Happy Trails make Happy Tails."

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C&MMorris

+C&MMorris

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Green Achers:

 

Hey Mr. Force. You think you have slow service? Try using an old farm phone line with a half dozen slices between the new service lines and our house service box.

 

"Happy Trails make Happy Tails."[/quote

 

Bill. I know exactly what you your talking about. I too have an old farm house with old phone lines. I even have the original phone. As for an ISP I use bigvalley out of Ceres. They are $8.00 a Month. I've been pretty happy with them. My computer never drops me. Check them out at www.bigvalley.net

 

Mike

 

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

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georgeandmary

+georgeandmary

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Brute-Force:

Well, I guess I need to spend some bucks on a USB and get my GPS connected to my CPU! Sorry...

Anyways, I went a planting today. Watch for 5 new caches to appear soon. Most are easy, but that 1. icon_biggrin.gif Just trying to fill in some holes out this way.

 

If a little Brute Force doesn't work, try using a lot!

 

You don't need a USB for the gps, a serial port works fine. Unless you're loading lot's of maps which makes the USB nice. But for waypoints, serial is fine.

 

What is a must to have is a Palm or Handspring handheld PDA. With that and the Pocket Querry you're always ready to go.

 

I break the state into a number of regious with my pocket querry search options. Many of the regions overlap, but that's better than missing caches like I did when I went to sacrmento. Elk Grove ended up being a dead spot on my map.

 

Once the GPS and Handspring are loaded. I'm ready to go anywhere withing a 100 miles of here.

 

george

 

39570_500.jpg

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

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Fallen

+Fallen

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Streeter:

....Fallen on his 100th find (and his 101..cache ninja). Number 200 can't be far behind.

 

Ron

 

__I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.__

 

I thank you Ron for the kind remark. I am imagining I shouldn't stay away from the forum for 2 days anymore!

 

70546_800.gif

 

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

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Fallen

+Fallen

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by Green Achers:

Hey Ron! Are you up yet?? Lets go caching... We're burning non-Daylight.

 

Just kidding. I'm pulling an all nighter. Probably shouldn't be on the road tomorrow (Or is that Today) 'cause no sleep makes you drive like your drunk. Worse yet, how would I respond to any Police after being awake for two days? Probably talk drunk too.

 

Speaking of Police. What did you guys tell the cops the other night? Did you confirm their suspicions about your group (wink) or did you tell them you were using a 14 billion dollar Government system and couldn't talk about it? LOL

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"Happy Trails make Happy Tails."

 

We told them we were just leaving. Had no idea what the park was or we probably would have come up with something else.

 

70546_800.gif

 

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

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Brute-Force

+Brute-Force

Posted
Posted

Yea, nicad and NiMH batteries are great except for 1 thing. They do not have the same voltage rating as do alkaline. Normal AAs are 1.5 volts. NiMH and NiCad are 1.2. Using 4 alkalines would generate 6 volts compared to only 4.8 from the others. The more batteries a device takes, the worse the spread gets. And, some things just do not perform well at a reduced voltage level. Some devices do have an extra slot for an extra NiMH just to bring up the voltage. Does anyone even care? icon_biggrin.gif Didn't think so.

 

Anyways, those guys out in the dark in that park. I noticed a nice rainbow magnet in Ninja if any of you want to go get it. icon_wink.gif

 

If a little Brute Force doesn't work, try using a lot!

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Green Achers

+Green Achers

Posted
Posted

quote:
Brute-Force has logged a cache on your watch list (go go gadget cache). You can visit the cache at the following link:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=17312

 

User comments:

Yep, I found it and something else! As I got close to the cache area and started my hunt, I noticed some black plastic in a neat hiding spot in some branches. I gave it a tug and I turned out to be a bag with something in it. My thought was that it was the cache. That thought faded as I could hear sloshing in the container. I opened the bag to find a brand new can of charcoal starting fluid! Did someone swap them? No! I found the cache just below a few minutes later.

Took: Homie

Left: tiny car

Tonight: barbecue!

 

Mr. Force is funny... What times the Q dude?

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"Happy Trails make Happy Tails."

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Ron Streeter

Ron Streeter

Posted
Posted

....can't be beat.

 

I guess Morris was busy today as some of the caches I found were close by him.

 

I found 3 of Brute's new 5. One I couldn't find and one I posted as a note...injuries and dark shut me down.

 

I also couldn't find two of George's, but I did find one other.

 

I learned there are a lot of caches in the area I was looking in, and I learned I need to do a better job of using the Pocket Query. I sort of gave up on it since I had trouble using the reader on my Prism, but I can also load them to the laptop that is always with me, and they are easier to read on that...Pocket Query here I come.

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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