Central Valley Cachers

5.3k · November 18, 2002

I just made a comment on something I thought was funny...

I had no idea there was a whole brouhaha going on about this!

My apologies to all involved.

Me, I placed a very crappy cache yesterday in Pleasanton. Literally. Chuguy already found it.

November 18, 2002

It's interesting listining to both sides of the line. I can see the point's on both sides. BUT, Like Jaimee said there is no love lost here.

I consider both Ron and the Crawford crew my friends. I enjoy going caching with and seeking caches from both of them. So that being said, Keep putting out the fun caches BUT dont over rule them to much or they wont be fun. I could say more but I wont. I take the 5th.

And that's all I have to say about that!!!!!!!!

Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

1.1k · November 18, 2002

Fizzy,

Who are you trying to kid??? When you posted the words quoted below, you knew exactly what you were doing.

quote:
Originally posted by fizzymagic:
This would be the cache where you not only have to sign the log in blood, but you have to post a picture of yourself bowing down on your knees to worship the almighty cache hider?

Jaimee

Before criticizing others, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do the criticizing, you will have their shoes AND be a mile away!

2.6k · November 18, 2002

NOt on the forums, well how about on cache pages?

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=42095

Talking about pissy comments. If I find the cache then I found the cache. 99% of the cache I've found, I've signed the log with a pen or pencil. A few, recently, I've signed with whatever I've had available.

If ron had a problem he should have said something but instead he hides a cache up north and notes me on the page. Hows that?

So if I find that cache, and use my rubber stamp, or a sticker, or a calling card, I expect ron will delete it.

It's a game. Hide a cache, find a cache. Simple.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

1.1k · November 18, 2002

George..reread my post. I said nasty comments had been made by BOTH sides.

I hadn't seen the cache page you linked until just now. I don't think that references like that should be made on a cache page.

The whole Ron V. George thing really distracts from the fun of the caching, especially when it's blasted on the forum pages. What I need to do is just not involve myself anymore and stay completely out of the whole thing. I just have a problem with keeping my trap shut apparently.

Maybe George and Ron should spend a day caching together, talking smack to each other all day, beating the hell out of each other or whatever it takes to clear the air!!

DISCLAIMER: I am not advocating violence. That is just my feeble attempt at making a J-O-K-E!!!

Before criticizing others, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do the criticizing, you will have their shoes AND be a mile away!

1.1k · November 18, 2002

Happy fingers..duplicate posting..sorry!

November 18, 2002

DISCLAIMER: I am not advocating violence. That is just my feeble attempt at making a J-O-K-E!!!

Hey, Thats How we settled things as kid's. We would go out and beat the livin Sh1t out of each other. After the fight was over there was no more trouble between the two or 3 or 4 of us. I used to love ending conflics that way. But that's just me.

Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

1.1k · November 18, 2002

Hey..I have an idea!! I think we should rent those big Sumo suits for Ron and George and let them have a Sumo wrestling match. We could make it an event cache and everyone who attends can get a find!

Jaimee

Before criticizing others, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do the criticizing, you will have their shoes AND be a mile away!

2.6k · November 18, 2002

Have I ever made a cache with caveats directed toward ron?

Ron has 2.

Have I ever hid a cache to as a dig toward another person?

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=31839

For those who have found this cache, you know and I know it's a dig towards me.

Ron has emailed other players and brought me into the subject when I wasn't even part of the discussion. He's even denied finds for other players because they were my friends.

Ask me if you want to hear the whole story.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

November 18, 2002

I want to hear the Rest of the Story. I'm kind of interested now.

George does make a good point here!!

Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

1.2k · November 18, 2002

....I think everyone knows there is no love lost between you and I, though the beginnings of that are lost to my memory.

I will address a few issues you have raised today in this forum.

1) If you don't like the requirements of my caches (as relates to signing the log or any other requirements) don't look for them. Obviously the log with a regular pencil comments in my caches lately are directed to you as you seem to not be able to keep a pencil/pen on your person.

2) As to the dollar I placed in your Castle Air BAse cache, I didn't have the cache description with me, so I didn't remember from the original reading that it was to be a *where*s George* dollar. Someone else (or you) can turn it in to that. Isn't this an example of putting an *undue requirement* on a find? Sacrcasm intended.

3) As to your post that I had *found* two of my own caches, that is part of a test that I owe to you. I will be addressing this in detail later today on this forum.

4) So, George, take your own advice...*it's just a game*. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the *game*.

5) and Finally, though it is just a game, I feel honesty is an important part of the game. It depends on trust in many ways. A violation of that trust diminishes the offender and those offended.

Ron

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

1.2k · November 18, 2002

Just read your latest post.

Fallen's find of a virtual cache I placed was denied because he did not provide the correct answers.

Go ahead and tell your story though..it should be interesting to hear...perhaps as interesting as the story I will tell later today.

Ron

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

November 18, 2002

Thought I would check up on the forum and I see people are back in the sandbox.

What would you do if your kids acted like this? I sure am glad my kids don't read this forum it would be hard to explain to them why adults are acting like this, and probably need a freaking time out!

Come on people, IT'S A GAME!!!!!!

Well I am out of this, maybe we will just quit caching or not read the forums anymore, it isn't worth this mindless dribble.

Tammi

2.6k · November 18, 2002

Ron, how much of your day do you spend worrying about me?

Go find a cache.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

1.2k · November 18, 2002

Isn't that a bit like the pot calling the kettle black?

Meanwhile, I think Mike Morris indicated he was interested in your story. Why not tell it here so everyone can hear it and draw their own conclusions?

The *test* (with which I *believe* you are abundantly familiar) is still ongoing and I will write it up later today.

Ron

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

November 18, 2002

...because I have had caches with problems also.

Ok. I have really been trying to be nice and get along with everyone because (as said before) this is only a game as with everything else... but I have been mentioned. So why not.

Nothing is offensive.

Banderita... We all should know it well right? Well I guess I don’t. Coming back from a great weekend caching on the east side I see this cache coming up and I figure ehh why not. So we stop. The coordinates lead me to the middle of the road with the question something along the lines of, “What is the name of the train pictured here?”. Easy enough, I see the train. Next there is some question about the XXX Feathers Store about 0.25 mile down the street. No problem, see the town. Right? It’s a cool town anyway. So the next question asks, “What is the phone number across the street?” No big deal, there is a building right across from the XXX Feathers Store with a sign on it that says, “For entrance after hours please call (someone that I don’t remember) phone number is on the inside of the door”. Uhh... ok so I am imagining I have to open this door and get the phone number? Nope, locked! So I write that down. Next question. “What is the business type next to the phone booth?” Well, no phone booth around here, so I go back down the street near the train where there is a phone booth and write down the type of business next to it. Keep in mind, this is the only phone booth in town.

So I get home and e-mail him the answers thinking, cool... no problem. The next day I get a nope! Sorry those aren’t the right answers. So I e-mail him back and ask him where exactly did I mess up? He replies and tells me I have the wrong phone booth and the previous person who found the cache said that phone booth had been removed but he could tell where it had been. So the other person, who also couldn’t get all of the information was allowed to log the cache? And how exactly was I supposed to find a business next to a phone booth and a phone number of a phone that no longer exists? In my opinion I had NO chance of getting this cache because all the parts weren’t there, so (in my opinion) it should have been disabled until Ron could fix it. Then Ron says that the people down the street could have given me the correct answers. How exactly could I have known this? Given the circumstances I did the cache the best it could have been done. Ron avidly held his stance at not giving me the cache because I’m “not caching for numbers”. Whatever that means.

I would have given it to me... but I guess that would have been like signing your name in blood.

Not to start anything (like that helps), but I was mentioned.

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

November 18, 2002

So how is everyone else doing anyway?

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

1.2k · November 18, 2002

sounds right. That is pretty much the way I remember it.

Perhaps I should have given him the credit for the find, but I did not given the email dialogues we were having at the time. If I gave credit to another cacher who did not provide the right answers, it probably had something to do with believability and friendship.

I'm sure Fallen and others have stretched a bit for some one they felt friendly toward. Fallen may remember that after I found one of his caches I let him know that either the previous cacher (George as it happens) had not put it back properly, OR the clue was wrong. Fallen indicated in a return email that He (Fallen) might have constructed the clue a bit off. I offered the tip to Fallen in the believe that the clue MIGHT mislead some people, and there are some people (no names right?) who go buggy if clues aren't written to the correct millimeter.

Edit: pushed the button too soon!

So, that's my version of that. Not much different from Fallen's, but guess it depends on your perspective.

Fallen...your name will get mentioned again in the next post which addresses the *test* issue.

Don't take it personally...it's just the facts.

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

1.2k · November 18, 2002

Here are some links for any interested party to read. Once you have followed this trail, you can draw any conclusion(s) you want. If you don’t want to follow the links….don’t.

Any additional facts provided by any parties are certainly welcome.

George’s post of August 9 at 2:36 pm

http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=3000938983&m=9790927054&r=2600959925#2600959925

After seeing some “test” notations on some of George’s cache pages, I remembered his post shown above and then I saw his cache page for Where I First Looked. It was published on November 17.

Here is the url for that cache as it exists at roughly 6 pm on November 18.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=43390

When I looked at it there was a November 17 entry by George that said –Test--. It was a NOTE entry. There was also a NOTE entry by Fallen which said --I hear you--.

Now when looking at that cache page, those entries are gone.

Anyone reading this can draw any conclusion they like. I am open to the fact I may have mis-interpreted all of the links shown here.

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

1.2k · November 18, 2002

When I tried the approach today (which George suggested on August 6 at 2:36 pm) I posted two find posts on two of my own cache placements. One of them was the Cow Pie Trail cache.

They were immediately recorded as finds by geocaching.com. I waited to see if Dan Miller’s stats page(s) would add to my find counts. Sometime after the noon hour today, Miller’s computer sampled the data at the geocaching.com server and my find counts went up on Miller’s stats page.

About 10 p.m. tonight I will convert those two finds at geocaching.com to notes, or delete them completely. My find counts at geocaching.com will adjust downward, but theoretically my find counts at Dan Miller’s pages will not, thus mis-representing the number of finds I have to my credit.

While I can understand that occasionally one might accidentally post a find instead of a note, I can’t believe it would happen on a truly regular basis.

Once again, if the facts I present here don’t tell the whole story, then I am open to suggestions from any and all interested parties that will enlighten me.

Ron

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

November 18, 2002

So you did one good thing for me. Thank you. I always do that myself. If I come upon a cache and there is no pencil I will usually leave one so George doesn't have to prick his finger. I always like to make sure caches are in the best condition and e-mail the owner if they are not. I also carry extra log books just incase I come across a cache with a full one. Do I feel special? Probably not.

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

2.6k · November 18, 2002

I haven't written much on the logs lately, but I wanted to make a couple of comments after today.

First

Fizzy I know and respect you a great deal, but I think your comment earlier went to far. If Ron wants to make requirements in order to log his cache, then so be it. I may think it unnecessary to make such demands, but it is his right to do so. It was approved by the powers that be and if we don't like it then we don't go after those caches.

Second

Ron I think it was a bit petty of you to make a direct comment about George on one of your cache pages. I believe that you are better than that and it makes you look biter.

Third

I have know Fallen's story for some time and I felt that it was unfair that he was not allowed to claim the cahe. I know that circumstances arise and exceptions are made when it is impossible to complete the task at hand and if the cache finder has tried. Ron, I know you understand this because you did this recently with Brute Force's barracks cache. The authorities told you the area was off limits, they stopped you from finding the cache and I thought that it was fine that you claimed it as a find. It was not your fault that you couldn't complete the find. the same is true with Fallen. I understand again that George's name was mentioned as to why you would not allow him to claim that find, if this is true then I hope you will reconsider.

Fourth

Tammi I hope this silliness does not sour you to geocaching. I enjoy seeing your family at our local events.

Finally

Ron It appears to me that you are challenging our find count. I can't believe that you think we have cheated in some way. I would be more than glad to e-mail you a complete list of our found and hidden caches. I do again think this is beneath you

Mary

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

November 18, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Streeter:
When I tried the approach today (which George suggested on August 6 at 2:36 pm) I posted two find posts on two of my own cache placements. One of them was the Cow Pie Trail cache.

They were immediately recorded as finds by geocaching.com. I waited to see if Dan Miller’s stats page(s) would add to my find counts. Sometime after the noon hour today, Miller’s computer sampled the data at the geocaching.com server and my find counts went up on Miller’s stats page.

About 10 p.m. tonight I will convert those two finds at geocaching.com to notes, or delete them completely. My find counts at geocaching.com will adjust downward, but theoretically my find counts at Dan Miller’s pages will not, thus mis-representing the number of finds I have to my credit.

While I can understand that occasionally one might accidentally post a find instead of a note, I can’t believe it would happen on a truly regular basis.

Once again, if the facts I present here don’t tell the whole story, then I am open to suggestions from any and all interested parties that will enlighten me.

Ron

__I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.__

Check my caches. I actually did find that one yesterday. When I said "I hear you" it was totally a joke. If you don't believe me check my actual finds versus the finds on the stats page. Im actually missing 4 caches there. Big deal!

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

2.6k · November 18, 2002

You're right, I posted a note. Sad sad sad little man.

I deleted the note. Sad sad little man.

my profile says I have 526 finds and 114 hides.

Dan's page says I have

522 over all finds

466 in californa finds

103 hides in california (never hidden out of state)

You right, my total should be higher.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

1.2k · November 18, 2002

Fallen...

Yes, I know you found the cache. I saw your true find log. I was wondering why George posts *test* and why you logged a note saying *I hear you*. Just seemed odd to me.

Mary...

I understand everything you said. Do you understand what I said? I said...here are some facts...interpret them as you will.

If they can be interpreted in more than one way, then I'm sure those interpetations or explanations will be forthcoming.

Mary, I also received your email to me. I don't know that I've been called worse, but perhaps.

As regards Tammi's note earlier, while I understand her frustration with what she was seeing here, I'm sure she and her husband are capable of making the decision to cache or not cache on their own, and for their own reasons.

I have made no bones about the animosity that exists between George and I and an tip-toeing around it is probably not healthy. It probably will be that he (and by extension you) and I will just have to do our own thing(s) whatever those things may be.

I have had no interest in caching with George as his approach is different than mine and I stumble around more than he does I'm sure. That's not a problem as I know he doesn't want to cache with me either.

Each of us has supporters in our caching community, and some of those supporters are friends and supporters of each of us. I have no problem with that.

I wish you and George the best in pursuing your caching hobby...it just isn't the way I choose to pursue it.

Ron

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

November 18, 2002

Has everyone heard of a game called the WHITE ELEPHANT. It's like a fun exchange X-MAS game.

I think we should have a CVC X-MAS party and play this game. What does everyone think? Let me know. Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

2.6k · November 18, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by C&MMorris:
Has everyone heard of a game called the WHITE ELEPHANT. It's like a fun exchange X-MAS game.

I think we should have a CVC X-MAS party and play this game. What does everyone think? Let me know. Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

Only if you dress up like Santa Mike. I always like a good gathering. I just can't wait until it gets warm enough to have one in a park somewhere.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

November 18, 2002

Place a cache log it.

Find a cache log it.

This is all fun and games anyway. The blood pressure medication should still be administered the same as it was before anyone ever started caching.

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

November 18, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by C&MMorris:
Has everyone heard of a game called the WHITE ELEPHANT. It's like a fun exchange X-MAS game.

I think we should have a CVC X-MAS party and play this game. What does everyone think? Let me know. Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

I'm in!!!

Does anyone mind if I wear all black?

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

2.6k · November 18, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Fallen:

I'm in!!!

Does anyone mind if I wear all black?

http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/70546_800.gif

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

As long as you wear elf shoes too.

george

Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more.

November 18, 2002

As long as you wear elf shoes too.

Elf shoes with skulls, right?!!!

B.B.Q. in the park on a warm sunny day sounds good. But I think we will be stuck in doors.

Any suggestions as to were this should take place? There is a resturant on Mchenry in Modesto that I think would be good.

How about a date? Sometime before Christmas.

December 19, 20 ? Let me know.

Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

[This message was edited by C&MMorris on November 18, 2002 at 08:57 PM.]

November 18, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by C&MMorris:
As long as you wear elf shoes too.

Elf shoes will skull's right!!!

B.B.Q. in the park on a warm sunny day sounds good. But I think we will be stuck in doors.

Any suggestions as to were this should take place? There is a resturant on Mchenry in Modesto that I think would be good.

How about a date? Sometime before Christmas.

December 19, 20 ? Let me know.

Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

Im on vacation then so that would work for me.

Anywhere is good as long as this veggie could eat.

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

November 18, 2002

Hey Fallen, You dont run around straping yourself to tree's saying SAVE THE FORREST!! do you?

Just kidding, Trying to lightin up the forum.

Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

November 18, 2002

But I think it is spelled forest. As long as we respect it, I think we will be doing just fine. So no, in that particular aspect I do not go that far.

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

November 18, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by C&MMorris:
Has everyone heard of a game called the WHITE ELEPHANT. It's like a fun exchange X-MAS game.

I think we should have a CVC X-MAS party and play this game. What does everyone think? Let me know. Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

Sounds good to us, but only if there is plenty of meat for us carnivores.

Guess I'm back to caching?

I'll think of a place to go. Unless Mike is thinking of that Mexican place on McHenry that sounds good. But we better reserve now, places will be filling up.

Tammi

November 18, 2002

Wow Tammi, Your good. that was the place that I was thinking about. If you know of a better place please let me know. I cant think of any other's at this time.

Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

November 18, 2002

If we can all agree on a date in the next couple of day's and a place to have it. I will call and reserve it. Tammi is right It will have to be reserved REAL SOON.

Mike

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

5.3k · November 18, 2002

To any I offended. I know Jamie doesn't believe me, but I had no clue all this was brewing under the surface. I do know that I thought the extra requirements on that cache were kind of funny, which was the genesis of my original post.

Meanwhile, while all of you have been waging war, Pepper and I placed a cache in Ripon today. I hope you guys like it.

We also found the Spike and Ivy cache in Manteca today and it is a great cache! Wonderful job, Ron!

1.1k · November 18, 2002

Sounds fun Mike! From what Pat was telling me, the White Elephant game sounds sorta like what they play at the big barn Christmas party next door. We always attend and have a really good time. It's always fun to steal away that gift that someone wants to keep soooooo bad!!

Any date is cool with us. The 19th would probably be easier because it's a Thursday, but whatever works is cool. I know a lot of places do a special Xmas party package with appetizers and drink specials too. If you can't find a suitable location to hold a party, we can always use our house. It's big enough for a big group and we have plenty of parking. Also, if it was at our house, we could get Pat drunk and watch him dance and stuff!!!!

Jaimee

Before criticizing others, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do the criticizing, you will have their shoes AND be a mile away!

1.2k · November 18, 2002

As usual this year I'm traveling back to Kansas to visit my mother during the Christmas season, so probably won't make the Christmas party...pretty sure that will make things a little more comfortable for some folks (me included) but as adults we should be able to deal with differences.

I have deleted the finds, notes, etc from my Hang Ten and Cow Pie Trail caches. These include my posts and other peoples posts. Any posts going in now will probably be a result of a search for the caches.

I can appreciate that almost no one wanted to comment here in the forum on the *recent unpleasantness*, but I also appreciate the emails I received on both sides of this issue.

The sides were about equally represented.

One person told me not to worry about what other people did, but what I did...that's good advice.

Another included this....

……..employees are expected to refrain from engaging not only in improper behavior but also in behavior that others might perceive to be improper. To gauge the propriety of an action, consider how it would be reported in tomorrow's newspaper. Bear in mind that ….. employees are required to live up to a higher standard of ethical behavior than the general public.

So, life goes on. I know I will continue to enjoy the caching I do and I know others will too.

Ron

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

November 18, 2002

How many post's can you get on 1 page?

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

November 18, 2002

More than 41

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

November 18, 2002

more than 42

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

November 18, 2002

more than 43

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

November 18, 2002

more than 44

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

November 18, 2002

more than 45

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

November 18, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Streeter:
As usual this year I'm traveling back to Kansas to visit my mother during the Christmas season, so probably won't make the Christmas party...pretty sure that will make things a little more comfortable for some folks (me included) but as adults we should be able to deal with differences.

I have deleted the finds, notes, etc from my Hang Ten and Cow Pie Trail caches. These include my posts and other peoples posts. Any posts going in now will probably be a result of a search for the caches.

I can appreciate that almost no one wanted to comment here in the forum on the *recent unpleasantness*, but I also appreciate the emails I received on both sides of this issue.

The sides were about equally represented.

One person told me not to worry about what other people did, but what I did...that's good advice.

Another included this....

……..employees are expected to refrain from engaging not only in improper behavior but also in behavior that others might perceive to be improper. To gauge the propriety of an action, consider how it would be reported in tomorrow's newspaper. Bear in mind that ….. employees are required to live up to a higher standard of ethical behavior than the general public.

So, life goes on. I know I will continue to enjoy the caching I do and I know others will too.

Ron

__I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.__

I would have no problem with you there. No 'real' harm is meant by anything I say. Like I say, its all a game and I too will continue to have fun caching and finding your caches too. Oh well, people are just too serious with this stuff anyway.

Happy caching everyone!

If there is something to B17ch about I'll make sure you're the first to know.

November 18, 2002

more than 46

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

November 18, 2002

There is a method to my EVIL way's. I'm done.

Carolyn

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

November 18, 2002

almost there

If it's got wing's, I can fly it!!

Central Valley Cachers

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