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Clongo_Rongo

Moved by a previous finder

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Posted (edited)

image.png.968848541fe719a80b1b35aad643b7a0.png

 

i looked for a cache today, but it was moved by a previous finder, when i read the logs ?

when you find a cache and you think the placement does not meet the D/T rating you move it ?

Surely it’s the CO that sets the D/T not the finder ?

Edited by Clongo_Rongo
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

image.png.968848541fe719a80b1b35aad643b7a0.png

 

i looked for a cache today, but it was moved by a previous finder, when i read the logs ?

when you find a cache and you think the placement does not meet the D/T rating you move it ?

Surely it’s the CO that sets the D/T not the finder ?

 

You are assuming that the cache had never been moved by other previous finders.  It is not uncommon to find a cache out in the open or fallen to the ground.  In such a case, as a finder, I generally try to place it back in my best guess as to where it should  have been, note that in my log, and log Needs Maintenance.

 

Without more detail it is impossible to know if what the previous finder did was appropriate or not.

Edited by fizzymagic
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1 minute ago, fizzymagic said:

 

You are assuming that the cache had never been moved by other previous finders.  It is not uncommon to find a cache out in the open or fallen to the ground.  In such a case, as a finder, I generally try to place it back in my best guess as to where it should  have been, note that in my log, and log Needs Maintenance.

 

Without more detail it is impossible to know if what the previous finder did was appropriate or not.

 

my issue is it was moved by a finder that did not agree with the D/T rating 

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13 minutes ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

image.png.968848541fe719a80b1b35aad643b7a0.png

 

i looked for a cache today, but it was moved by a previous finder, when i read the logs ?

when you find a cache and you think the placement does not meet the D/T rating you move it ?

Surely it’s the CO that sets the D/T not the finder ?

 

That has always been a pet-peeve of mine. To read a log that someone placed it where they thought it should be. 

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Well, the other day I found a cache lying on the ground out in the open.  I re-hid it in a nearby place that fit its D rating.  

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7 minutes ago, NanCycle said:

Well, the other day I found a cache lying on the ground out in the open.  I re-hid it in a nearby place that fit its D rating.  

I've found a couple caches lying out in the open. I've re-hidden them as well as I could, based on the information I had (difficulty and terrain ratings, hints, photos, the nature of the container, etc.). I also emailed the CO, specifying exactly where and how I re-hid their cache.

 

I can see an "inaccurate" difficulty or terrain rating being part of a finder's decision that the cache is out of place, or part of a finder's decision where a cache belongs when it was found out of place. But simply moving it because the difficulty or terrain rating is "inaccurate" seems to cross the line.

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23 minutes ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

image.png.968848541fe719a80b1b35aad643b7a0.png

i looked for a cache today, but it was moved by a previous finder, when i read the logs ?

when you find a cache and you think the placement does not meet the D/T rating you move it ?

Surely it’s the CO that sets the D/T not the finder ?

17 minutes ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

my issue is it was moved by a finder that did not agree with the D/T rating 

 

Did you ask the previous finder why they moved it ?  If not, and there's no more to the log, isn't "didn't agree" your opinion ?

 

Similar to a few, we've found enough caches out in the open, that we placed em off-trail (fitting the rating...) and emailed the CO.

If we were there earlier and taking new folks out to learn the hobby, we'll simply move it back to where we found it. 

 - The other 2/3rds  (FTF monster) had many caches seen as originally intended.     :)

A lot of low D/T caches have cache creep...

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58 minutes ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

image.png.968848541fe719a80b1b35aad643b7a0.png

 

i looked for a cache today, but it was moved by a previous finder, when i read the logs ?

when you find a cache and you think the placement does not meet the D/T rating you move it ?

Surely it’s the CO that sets the D/T not the finder ?

This is exactly what I would say if I found a cache lying on the ground, in the open, when a hanger indicates it was supposed to be in the tree. Like a cache I found this week. 

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i get the - it was on the floor and placed it back 

 

My issue is - it was moved as the finder did not agree with the D/T rating ?

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1 minute ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

My issue is - it was moved as the finder did not agree with the D/T rating ?

The devil's in the details.

 

You haven't given us many details, so it's hard to say whether or not this was a reasonable thing for the finder to do.

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30 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Did you ask the previous finder why they moved it ?  If not, and there's no more to the log, isn't "didn't agree" your opinion ?

 

Similar to a few, we've found enough caches out in the open, that we placed em off-trail (fitting the rating...) and emailed the CO.

If we were there earlier and taking new folks out to learn the hobby, we'll simply move it back to where we found it. 

 - The other 2/3rds  (FTF monster) had many caches seen as originally intended.     :)

A lot of low D/T caches have cache creep...

This is why I do my best to place the cache in "immovable" locations.

I've noticed the ones with the least amount of "cache creep" are the ones that are tethered to the location.

Micros and smalls tend to "creep" more. Magnetic caches move ALL OVER THE PLACE. 

 

It seems like I always need to choose locations that have one obvious hiding place.

As for T ratings, I try to follow the website's guidelines. Most of my caches can't be easily accessed from a wheelchair, so I tend to go 1.5 as a minimum.

After reading all of these replies, I have the urge to go to all my caches and make sure they're in the "right spot."

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7 minutes ago, niraD said:

The devil's in the details.

 

You haven't given us many details, so it's hard to say whether or not this was a reasonable thing for the finder to do.

 

i must be missing some thing here ?

 

you look for a cache and you find it, but you look at the cache page and see the D rating and think thats too easy so i will move it to some where else. 

that fits the D rating, 

its the Co that sets the D?T and if you disagree you should not move it 

 

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I had a cache that was meant to be sitting out in the open. It was a fake rock hiding in plain sight amongst a bunch of real rocks, but occasionally someone would decide that it needed to be "properly" hidden by covering it with those other rocks. A few times I'd almost written it off as muggled until I finally spotted it where someone had concealed it.

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32 minutes ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

i get the - it was on the floor and placed it back 

 

My issue is - it was moved as the finder did not agree with the D/T rating ?

 

Our issue is -- you didn't provide any evidence of the previous finder's intent.

 

Did you ask the previous finder where the cache was when they found it?

 

Did you ask the owner of the cache how it was meant to be hidden?

 

Are you 100% certain that the previous finder moved it from the intended location to another?

 

I didn't think so.   Seems to me that you are imputing motives to the previous finder based on one possible interpretation of their log, which is by no means the only possible interpretation.

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1 minute ago, barefootjeff said:

I had a cache that was meant to be sitting out in the open. It was a fake rock hiding in plain sight amongst a bunch of real rocks, but occasionally someone would decide that it needed to be "properly" hidden by covering it with those other rocks. A few times I'd almost written it off as muggled until I finally spotted it where someone had concealed it.

:)

Similar, we had a "rock" micro on the edge of a bike trail.  under a small ledge. The hint was even "no need to leave the trail". 

 - But we got a lot of throwdowns because it just "couldn't be there". 

Folks would place a throwdown up to 20 feet into the woods (adding insult to injury...) when all they had to do was kneel down. 

 

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1 hour ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

you look for a cache and you find it, but you look at the cache page and see the D rating and think thats too easy so i will move it to some where else. 

that fits the D rating,

Let me try again. Let's say that someone finds a preform camouflaged to look like a pine cone, with a wire hanger attached to it.

 

Example #1: ThisCacher finds it on the ground, in the open, next to the trail. His device is pointing at a pine tree a few feet off the trail. The listing is D3.5, so he was expecting a significant challenge, not a container on the ground, in the open, next to the trail. He concludes that the cache was supposed to be hanging from one of the branches of the pine tree, and replaces it there.

 

Example #2 ThatCacher finds it hanging from a branch of an oak tree at GZ. The listing is D3.5, so he was expecting a significant challenge, not a fake pine cone hidden in a tree that "obviously" is not a pine tree. He concludes that the cache was supposed to be hanging from the pine tree 30-40 feet away, and replaces it there.

 

I would argue that one of these examples is a reasonable choice, and that the other is not. But you haven't provided enough information for me to decide whether the situation you're concerned about is like the first one or like the second one.

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18 minutes ago, niraD said:

Example #1: ThisCacher finds it on the ground, in the open, next to the trail. His device is pointing at a pine tree a few feet off the trail. The listing is D3.5, so he was expecting a significant challenge, not a container on the ground, in the open, next to the trail. He concludes that the cache was supposed to be hanging from one of the branches of the pine tree, and replaces it there.

Me. Two days ago. Where I found the cache, in the ground in the open,  didn't match the D/T so I put it up in the tree. Any reasonable person would do the same.  Maybe if the cache was rated wheelchair accessible I would have left it there on the ground. 😁

 

 

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Me. Two days ago. Where I found the cache, in the ground in the open,  didn't match the D/T so I put it up in the tree. Any reasonable person would do the same.  Maybe if the cache was rated wheelchair accessible I would have left it there on the ground.

 

When this new doc decides I can play again, there's a "tree" cache that the CO said was up high.  CO is now inactive.

"Finders" have said in their logs that it's now on the ground.   No NMs.  

I'm hitting that one first, and after sitting on my can to do a "high tree cache", I'm placing a NM. 

The CO's inactive.  Where on this huge tree did it once belong ?   

 - Nope, it stays where it is, and hopefully I'd start the natural process to finally remove another piecea carp by an inactive member.

Edited by cerberus1
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5 hours ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

image.png.968848541fe719a80b1b35aad643b7a0.png

 

i looked for a cache today, but it was moved by a previous finder, when i read the logs ?

when you find a cache and you think the placement does not meet the D/T rating you move it ?

Surely it’s the CO that sets the D/T not the finder ?

It seems like folks are not answering the question you are asking. Looking at some of your recent finds, I think the real question is, what's a "fab bacon butty"?

NO! wait, that's not it... It looks like someone actually wrote in their log that they moved it to match the D rating. And, no, they should not have moved it without checking with the owner. If it was out in the open you have to give it a little cover but if you don't know exactly where it was you should not move it "nearby."

Your instincts were correct.

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1 hour ago, hukilaulau said:

And, no, they should not have moved it without checking with the owner. If it was out in the open you have to give it a little cover but if you don't know exactly where it was you should not move it "nearby."

The issue here is the previous finder didn't state if they found it on the ground, in the open, obviously out of place, or if the move was because they didn't agree with the rating and placed it "more appropriately". THE LOG DIDN'T SAY, so we can't assume either way.

 

I, too, have placed caches found on the ground back into a tree, based on the terrain rating and the hanger attached to the container, or placed one in a hidey hole that matched the description or hint when I found the cache obviously out of place.  And I will say that in my log, so it's clear that I'm the one who placed it for the next finder, and the CO can come check it if they are so inclined.  If I'm not sure, I'll state that we put it back where we found it, and not try to second guess where it "should" be.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, hukilaulau said:

It seems like folks are not answering the question you are asking. Looking at some of your recent finds, I think the real question is, what's a "fab bacon butty"?

NO! wait, that's not it... It looks like someone actually wrote in their log that they moved it to match the D rating. And, no, they should not have moved it without checking with the owner. If it was out in the open you have to give it a little cover but if you don't know exactly where it was you should not move it "nearby."

Your instincts were correct.

Fab bacon butty = Fabulous bacon sandwich. Butty is an English slang term for buttered bread, as in sandwich. Or a it could also mean a small, working, un-powered, canal boat.

I prefer chip butties.

 

Edited by colleda
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13 hours ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

 

i must be missing some thing here ?

 

you look for a cache and you find it, but you look at the cache page and see the D rating and think thats too easy so i will move it to some where else. 

that fits the D rating, 

its the Co that sets the D?T and if you disagree you should not move it 

 

 

You are.  In THIS example, using yourself as the finder of the cache and not a previous finder of the cache, then yes, this is wrong.  You found it, didn't agree with the D rating and placed it back somewhere else.  Even though you didn't agree with the D rating, it should have been returned to the same place you found it.  You should have then sent off an email/message to the CO letting them know that their cache might be hidden in a manner they didn't intend as you felt the 3.5 D cache was more like a 1.5 D.

 

In your original post, you're positing the same notion but without any firsthand information about where they found it.  You have NO idea if they found it on the ground, hanging on a low branch, under a leaf, under a rock, or any other scenario.  You are assuming that they found the cache as it was intended to be found by the CO and they placed it somewhere more difficult.  That's only one possibility.  You could have assumed that the previous finder found the cache as it was NOT intended to be found by the CO and they placed it somewhere that matched what they believed the rating indicated.  You have NO knowledge of how the CO placed it and NO knowledge of how the last finder found it so you can't assume that their actions were faulty.  

 

If there was a hint that said "hanger" and the previous finder found it on the ground, then that's a no brainer.  If there was no hint (and nothing in previous logs to help identify where it was originally placed) and the previous finder found it on the ground, they probably should have put it back where they found it and notified the CO in some manner, which means you would have found it on the ground as well.  We can't tell if the previous finders truly did anything wrong because we have no knowledge of where they found it or whether or not they were in contact with the CO to help replace it as it was intended.  There's more to this that needs to be fleshed out and it's not as simple as it appears.

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i did not find this cache i looked for

 

This cache is not as first placed, it has a throw down and that has been re-hid in a different place by a finder.

 

But the throw down does not match the hint item i think ?

 

so  the throw down may be the reason that its moved, so really two issues here ?

 

1 - could not find the caches so placed a throw down

 

2 - the next finder finds the throw down and moves it to match the D rating.

 

so i feel i have not chance of finding the cache and the  4 people who DNF'ed it also before me also

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

i did not find this cache i looked for

This cache is not as first placed, it has a throw down and that has been re-hid in a different place by a finder.

But the throw down does not match the hint item i think ?

so  the throw down may be the reason that its moved, so really two issues here ?

1 - could not find the caches so placed a throw down

2 - the next finder finds the throw down and moves it to match the D rating.

so i feel i have not chance of finding the cache and the  4 people who DNF'ed it also before me also

 

Thank you for explaining this.   :)

A perfect example how a throwdown can throw everything outta whack.

 

When you couldn't find it either, did you leave a NM ?   Did the CO say anything ?

I feel if the CO hasn't said anything yet, after 4 DNFs, I'd at least leave a NM...

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Thank you for explaining this.   :)

A perfect example how a throwdown can throw everything outta whack.

 

When you couldn't find it either, did you leave a NM ?   Did the CO say anything ?

I feel if the CO hasn't said anything yet, after 4 DNFs, I'd at least leave a NM...

 

the T D was Oct 2018 it was found 3 times  - then the next finder as per my opening post moved it  -  it was found once after that, then the DNF's

 

no comments from the Co ?

 

i put a NA on it

Edited by Clongo_Rongo
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9 minutes ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

the T D was Oct 2018 it was found 3 times  - then the next finder as per my opening post moved it  -  it was found once after that, then the DNF's

 

no comments from the Co ?

 

i put a NA on it

Before the THROW DOWN it had 8 DNF's

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45 minutes ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

This cache is not as first placed, it has a throw down

Well, there's your problem right there.

 

For reference, see the Help Center article Respond to "throwdowns".

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, colleda said:

Fab bacon butty = Fabulous bacon sandwich. Butty is an English slang term for buttered bread, as in sandwich. Or a it could also mean a small, working, un-powered, canal boat.

I prefer chip butties.

 

 

OT.

A Bacon Butty, is NOT the same as a Bacon Sandwich...

Butty >>

bacon-butty.jpg

 

On Topic, if the HINT doesn't suggest where the cache should be, D/T is the next best thing as a guide to re-hiding an obviously "not in the right place" cache...

Edited by Bear and Ragged
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2 hours ago, Bear and Ragged said:

 

OT.

A Bacon Butty, is NOT the same as a Bacon Sandwich...

Butty >>

bacon-butty.jpg

 

On Topic, if the HINT doesn't suggest where the cache should be, D/T is the next best thing as a guide to re-hiding an obviously "not in the right place" cache...

Bacon bappy?  Groan.

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2 hours ago, Bear and Ragged said:

 

OT.

A Bacon Butty, is NOT the same as a Bacon Sandwich...

Butty >>

bacon-butty.jpg

 

On Topic, if the HINT doesn't suggest where the cache should be, D/T is the next best thing as a guide to re-hiding an obviously "not in the right place" cache...

Dang!  I would have to see that just before dinner time.  Now I have to clean the drool out of my keyboard!

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16 hours ago, Clongo_Rongo said:

the T D was Oct 2018 it was found 3 times  - then the next finder as per my opening post moved it  -  it was found once after that, then the DNF's

 

no comments from the Co ?

 

i put a NA on it

 

Was there a previous NM log to let the CO know that there might be an issue?  If so, the NA is the proper next step, especially since there has been no CO response.  If not, you should have filed the NM log, waited a bit and then followed up with the NA if the CO didn't do anything to address the NM log.  The fact that it was found before you means it's still there (the throwdown is anyway).  Give the CO the opportunity to fix it and then get the reviewer involved if they don't.

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On 6/23/2020 at 12:45 PM, coachstahly said:

 

Was there a previous NM log to let the CO know that there might be an issue?  If so, the NA is the proper next step, especially since there has been no CO response.  If not, you should have filed the NM log, waited a bit and then followed up with the NA if the CO didn't do anything to address the NM log.  The fact that it was found before you means it's still there (the throwdown is anyway).  Give the CO the opportunity to fix it and then get the reviewer involved if they don't.

the reviewer has posted a co must check note - so wait and see 

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