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noncentric

[FEATURE]: Change labeling of "Corrected Coordinates"

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6 hours ago, noncentric said:

Less incorrect use by CO's

 

That's enough reason by itself.  +1

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Nice idea. See also this recent thread on the same topic - CO misuse of "corrected coords" when Update Coords log is what's needed.  OP there asks for Update Coords as an entry into the Admin Tools box.

I'm in favor of whatever is easiest to  implement. 

I'm in favor of recognizing that most new cache owners are app users primarily or only, and need for the Geocaching.com app to support cache ownership.  Update coords, archive logs need to be included, and Write Note needs to be the default log for COs, instead of  Owner Maintenance.

 

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The only issue that I would have is that one can use corrected coordinates for multi or traditional caches, thus using the term "Solved" might get confusing as well.

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1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

The only issue that I would have is that one can use corrected coordinates for multi or traditional caches, thus using the term "Solved" might get confusing as well. 

 

True, though personally I'd consider new coordinates in a multi a partial 'solve' on the tasks. I'd fully agree with the traditional though. In those cases they really are 'corrected' coordinates. Or 'adjusted' coordinates

That said, I never use the corrected coordinates feature on the website anyway :P after the native checker I copy out the correct coords and reset them, sending the solved coords to my app via personal note. I just prefer the manual way.

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1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

 

True, though personally I'd consider new coordinates in a multi a partial 'solve' on the tasks. I'd fully agree with the traditional though. In those cases they really are 'corrected' coordinates. Or 'adjusted' coordinates

That said, I never use the corrected coordinates feature on the website anyway :P after the native checker I copy out the correct coords and reset them, sending the solved coords to my app via personal note. I just prefer the manual way.

 

I manually (unless the native checker does it for me) use corrected coordinates every time I solve a puzzle.  As far as I know I don't have any traditionals or multis with corrected coordinates so I can do a search with the "has corrected coordinates" filter and it tells me how many puzzles I've solved.  

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Yep, I just do all that in my app (my entire caching career is in there) and that corrected coords feature kind of messes that up.

But anyway.  I can see the value of adjusted that name a bit - especially if there's an inconsistency between the app and the website (on top of a common CO mistaken use)

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7 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

The only issue that I would have is that one can use corrected coordinates for multi or traditional caches, thus using the term "Solved" might get confusing as well.

No label could ever be perfect in all scenarios, so one needs to be used that can describe the majority of the usage. I'd have to assume that puzzle/multi solutions account for the highest usage by far, so "Solved" would be the best fit. The relatively-small other uses of the feature would fall under the heading of "exceptions to the rule".

 

I'm all for this change, for all of the reasons described by noncentric. As a text label change, it would be exceedingly simple to implement, yet would provide quite a bit of benefit.

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8 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

The only issue that I would have is that one can use corrected coordinates for multi or traditional caches, thus using the term "Solved" might get confusing as well.

 

6 of one, half-a-dozen of another.  As The A-Team mentions below, the overwhelming use of the "corrected coordinates" feature is for puzzle/multi caches. I would contend that the 'final' location of a multi-cache is still closer to a "solution" than a "correction", so using "Solved" instead of "Corrected" is a better match.

 

And regarding traditionals, or other types of caches where someone is actually "correcting" an "incorrect" cache location, when using the pencil icon on the website to enter a corrected coordinate, the official app will show it as "Solved Coordinates".  So even if someone disagrees with the nuances of item #1 in the OP, there is still item #2 in the OP that applies.

 

 

26 minutes ago, The A-Team said:

As a text label change, it would be exceedingly simple to implement, yet would provide quite a bit of benefit.

 

Yes - I see it as "low hanging fruit".  An interesting test would be for half of English language users to have the label changed to "Solved", while the other half retains the "Corrected" label.  Then analyze the usage after some time and see if there's any indication of less 'incorrect' usage with one label vs the other.  But this would probably be a tedious test to implement.

Of course, this brings up the localization issue.  I don't know if there would be a meaningful difference between "Solved" and "Corrected", when translated into other languages - or even if there's inconsistency between the website and app in other languages. If the only meaningful difference is for English, then that would eliminate localization issues with the feature request.

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19 hours ago, noncentric said:

My request is to change the labeling of the Corrected Coordinates feature to Solved Coordinates.  The most common use of this feature is to enter puzzle or multi solutions, so the "Solved" verbiage would be appropriate.  The original posted coords are rarely "incorrect", so the "Corrected" is not as appropriate.

 

This change would be aimed at accomplishing a couple things:

  1. Less incorrect use by CO's -- Reducing instances where Cache Owners find that their cache's posted coords are incorrect and then use the "Corrected Coordinates" feature, thinking that they have now 'corrected' the cache page. They don't realize that the posted coords on the cache page are still incorrect, since they see the 'correected' coords when they look at the cache page. If the labeling says "Solved", then that might prompt CO's to consider whether that is the feature they really should be using.  It might also help to have a link or verbiage referencing the "Update Coordinates" log when a cacher opens an owned cache, but at least a labeling change would help.
  2. Platform consistency -- Consistency between the app and the website.  In the app, updated coordinates show as "Solved Coordinates" in the Waypoints section. Entering a "Solved" coordinate in the app syncs with the "Corrected" coordinates section on the website, which could be non-intuitive for users.

 

image.png.39223a0fbdec5a835d77898535f39070.png

 

Within the past year or so I have tried to instruct five cachers in the correct way to change the coordinates of their caches, after they thought they had corrected them using the "Corrected Coordinates" method.  Only one has had a favorable outcome and two are still pending.  The other two caches were archived due to lack of owner response.  I first send the CO a PM; if no response I write a  NM log; if still no response I write a NA log.  Eventually the reviewer writes a RN, if still no response the cache is archived.  

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2 hours ago, NanCycle said:

Within the past year or so I have tried to instruct five cachers in the correct way to change the coordinates of their caches, after they thought they had corrected them using the "Corrected Coordinates" method.  Only one has had a favorable outcome and two are still pending.  The other two caches were archived due to lack of owner response.  I first send the CO a PM; if no response I write a  NM log; if still no response I write a NA log.  Eventually the reviewer writes a RN, if still no response the cache is archived.  

 

Great to try and help out.  I just recently suggested revised coords to a CO and included the link to the Help Center article in my cache log.  Not sure if that will help, but am hoping.  It's not the first time I've suggested updated coords to a CO.

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In my preferred geocaching app, the term Final Coordinates is used. This makes sense in the context of a mystery or a multi.

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On 1/30/2019 at 3:35 AM, palmetto said:

I'm in favor of recognizing that most new cache owners are app users primarily or only, and need for the Geocaching.com app to support cache ownership.

 

I respectfully disagree on this point.  I use the app to FIND caches, but there is a lot more involved in PLACING caches; the website geocaching.com is currently required for creating a cache listing, and I think it should stay that way.  An app user ONLY cannot create a cache page and successfully hide a cache, it HAS to be done on the website.

 

The app is what I use when I am out seeking caches.  Logging, creating caches, planning a route, solving puzzles - for all of that I am on my computer and use the website.  

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4 hours ago, Wet Pancake Touring Club said:

I think Solved works for the majority of cases, and it is nice and short.

 

Personal coordinates is more generic, but I actually think it would be more confusing for most users.

I was thinking "solved" was an ok compromise until you suggested "personal" only to brush it off. I feel like "personal" kinda hits the nail on the head. That's exactly what the field is and the key to how users should think about the field. Can you explain why you think it's confusing?

 

The only problem I can think of for "personal" is that it doesn't convey that changing it actually moves where the cache looks like it is. "Corrected" gets that idea better. (My guess is that that's why "corrected" is being used: despite the confusion that makes some people think it changes the coordinates for everyone, it does, nevertheless, make the user realize that the coordinates are being changed as opposed to some alternative coordinate being added.) But "solved" has the same problem as "personal" in that regard.

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23 minutes ago, dprovan said:

I was thinking "solved" was an ok compromise until you suggested "personal" only to brush it off. I feel like "personal" kinda hits the nail on the head. That's exactly what the field is and the key to how users should think about the field. Can you explain why you think it's confusing?

 

The only problem I can think of for "personal" is that it doesn't convey that changing it actually moves where the cache looks like it is. "Corrected" gets that idea better. (My guess is that that's why "corrected" is being used: despite the confusion that makes some people think it changes the coordinates for everyone, it does, nevertheless, make the user realize that the coordinates are being changed as opposed to some alternative coordinate being added.) But "solved" has the same problem as "personal" in that regard.

My main thinking on why Personal would be confusing is that I was trying to keep the label short. If it were changed to "My personal updated coordinates", that would be much more descriptive, at the expense of screen real estate.

 

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1 hour ago, Wet Pancake Touring Club said:

My main thinking on why Personal would be confusing is that I was trying to keep the label short. If it were changed to "My personal updated coordinates", that would be much more descriptive, at the expense of screen real estate.

 

I am a fan of "short".

But also, part of my reason for using "Solved" in the OP is that "Solved" is what the app uses - so using "Personal" or "Final" or something else, would not address the issue of platform consistency in the OP.  Of course, both the website and app could be updated, but I think a change to one platform only (website) makes things easier.

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16 hours ago, dprovan said:

I was thinking "solved" was an ok compromise until you suggested "personal" only to brush it off. I feel like "personal" kinda hits the nail on the head. That's exactly what the field is and the key to how users should think about the field. Can you explain why you think it's confusing?

 

The only problem I can think of for "personal" is that it doesn't convey that changing it actually moves where the cache looks like it is. "Corrected" gets that idea better. (My guess is that that's why "corrected" is being used: despite the confusion that makes some people think it changes the coordinates for everyone, it does, nevertheless, make the user realize that the coordinates are being changed as opposed to some alternative coordinate being added.) But "solved" has the same problem as "personal" in that regard.

 

Personal coordinates might get confused with Personal Note....now, if a Personal note could optionally contain a set of coordinates...

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"Solved" works for me; it implies that you have worked to find a solution to a puzzle or signed a challenge you are working on (I enter dup coordinates on challenges I have signed to keep them on the map until I can turn it to a smilie).  And I think most folks who are in this game deep enough to be solving puzzles or working challenges are likely to also understand that changing the coordinates with the pencil icon  on the website will be visible only to them.  Especially if they cache with other people who do NOT have the changed coordinates!

 

"Updated" or "Corrected" on the other hand, implies you are changing the coordinates globally.  Tht should take you straight to a Reviewer note, and make it clear that this is changing it for ALL to see.  Whatever is done, it needs to be consistent between the app and the website.  And since cache page creation/editing is not a part of the app, keep the cache page that everyone sees consistent with the app language.

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On 1/30/2019 at 3:58 PM, NanCycle said:

 

Within the past year or so I have tried to instruct five cachers in the correct way to change the coordinates of their caches, after they thought they had corrected them using the "Corrected Coordinates" method.  Only one has had a favorable outcome and two are still pending.  The other two caches were archived due to lack of owner response.  I first send the CO a PM; if no response I write a  NM log; if still no response I write a NA log.  Eventually the reviewer writes a RN, if still no response the cache is archived.  

 

One of the two pending caches was updated today and I got a nice thanks message from the CO.

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