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Ever met anyone fundamentally opposed to Geocaching?


Stakmaster
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I'm not referring to people who don't want geocaches hidden on their property or public officials who may want certain geocaches removed. I'm talking about those who know what geocaches are and are against them on a fundamental level across the board for whatever reason. They don't like them, they don't want them in nature, they think they're dangerous, they don't want to see them, or any other similar reason. Anti-cachers would fall into this category. Those that know what geocaching is and deliberately take or destroy them for personal reasons. 

I have not met any in person but I have seen and spoken to them online. Generally I've found it's a belief that geocaches don't belong in nature and detract from the purity of the outdoors. They're very open about stealing or destroying any caches they find and don't seem to want to talk about or discuss it. 

I've encountered something similar with rock cairns I stack along hiking trails occasionally. I enjoy making them and I've been told people enjoy seeing them (a few times people have stopped walking to watch me make them in fact) but they never seem to last more than a day or two on one particular trail. A passerby told me that he had seen kids kicking them down before, which for some reason didn't bother me too much. I looked it up online though and saw a similar type of people to anti-cachers who don't like seeing any cairn in nature because they go into nature to get away from civilization and cairns are a reminder that other people had been there (a mode of thinking I can understand partially which is why I'm mindful of where I make them now.) 

Have you met, spoken to, or seen online any people like this? People who know what geocaching is and flat out hate what it is and do not think it should exist? Is there any way to change their minds? What do you say to people like this?

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1 hour ago, Stakmaster said:

Have you met, spoken to, or seen online any people like this? People who know what geocaching is and flat out hate what it is and do not think it should exist? Is there any way to change their minds? What do you say to people like this?

No. And what happened to Leave no trace? 

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3 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

You got me there.

Lol. It just goes to show that stuff like that isn't black and white though. I'd say geocaching brings people who would not normally go hiking and adventuring out into nature and helps them appreciate it, but I could play devil's advocate and say that hiding tuppoware containers full of paper and pens in the woods is littering. Just saying.

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4 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

That's not true as the actual Leave No Trace principles go.

They have a Geocaching section on their site, hand out plastic Geocaching cards, and get invited to Geocaching Events, so that cachers can consider ways to reduce environmental impact.

Leave No Trace was a general rule long before there was a website and an organization. In its original and purest form geocaching would be definitely breaking that rule. I'm glad there's an actual website and people promoting it, and that they understand and appreciate geocaching, but technically it really doesn't belong in nature. Once again, just playing devil's advocate, but there are purists out there like I mentioned in the OP that think like this.

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3 hours ago, Stakmaster said:

...I'm not referring to people who don't want geocaches hidden on their property or public officials who may want certain geocaches removed. hose that know what geocaching is and deliberately take or destroy them for personal reasons. 

 - snip -

Have you met, spoken to, or seen online any people like this? People who know what geocaching is and flat out hate what it is and do not think it should exist? Is there any way to change their minds? What do you say to people like this?

Sure.  Many cache maggots are like this.  I remember there was a special one in NY once.  :)  

I don't expect to change anyone's mind.  If I could, you'd all be Republicans.    :laughing: 

One we knew of and caught (an environmental studies major), took caches all around,  claiming they were litter.  Two years later, that same person got a job with our state's largest landowner.  After all our ammo cans were removed, the other 2/3rds had to attend a long commission meeting with another cacher, explain this "other use" hobby again, and let them know the kook started this upset (where none existed earlier...)  in retaliation for catching him stealing geocaches earlier.  He was canned when they found out he was a nut with an agenda.

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Hmm...  Not sure if it the same, but...  I used to be a member and trail maintainer for a trail conference.  (Maintained that trail for ten years!)  Then came thta controversy with the ATC wanting to ban all caches along the AT.  Despite the fact that they did not own most of the trails involved.  Though, they did have the trail maintained.  I thought this a bad idea, and contacted the trail conference several time, by e-mail ans USPS mail.  And received no response whatsoever!  Not even "We disagree".  Ignore me?  Okay.  I will ignore you.  Stopped being a member.  Stopped maintaining the trail.

So, you could put the Appalachian Trail Conference on your list.  (Hmm...  Stopped hiking the AT about that same time.  Did finish about half of it.)

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As my family has been getting into geocaching this year, my oldest daughter has adopted an attitude of "I'm too cool for this." She said, "If non-geocachers are called muggles, then I'm Voldemort and it's my mission to destroy geocaching."

Don't worry, everyone, I think she's just joking!

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21 hours ago, Harry Dolphin said:

Hmm...  Not sure if it the same, but...  I used to be a member and trail maintainer for a trail conference.  (Maintained that trail for ten years!)  Then came thta controversy with the ATC wanting to ban all caches along the AT.  Despite the fact that they did not own most of the trails involved.  Though, they did have the trail maintained.  I thought this a bad idea, and contacted the trail conference several time, by e-mail ans USPS mail.  And received no response whatsoever!  Not even "We disagree".  Ignore me?  Okay.  I will ignore you.  Stopped being a member.  Stopped maintaining the trail.

Yep.  We lost ours to find that they didn't want too many noticing (just thru hikers) the pipeline that was cut though the AT in-between our caches.  All well within game lands too.  We never got a reply why as well.  But when we noticed a trail maintainers caches were left alone, my long-time membership ended that year...

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There have been a few shameless ones in the past. I seem to recall there was one in Washington state that had a blog where they described their outings to collect cache containers and showed photos of them putting the containers in a garbage can. I think their argument was the abandoned-items-in-nature-can't-possibly-be-good one. I always found it ironic that such a supposed nature nut would simply turf the containers rather than recycle them and their contents appropriately.

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Some searching for "cache maggot" will turn up some tales, like the gent who was arrested up around Rome, New York, about ten years ago.

There was some hint of cache maggotry proposed a while back around southwestern New Mexico, but I don't know that the guy ever graduated to full cache maggot.

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Anti-cachers probably fall into four main categories. 

1. "Geocaching is lame/dumb." I think I've only explained geocaching to one person who thought it a stupid waste of time. (Most people think the idea at least sounds kind of neat, even if they never try it themselves.) However, they are harmless, and would probably just ignore a cache if they stumbled across it.

2. EcoNazis. The kind who steal caches because they consider the containers a form of littering. These tend to be environmental activists who started with good intentions but went off the deep end long before they ever heard of geocaching. These people are rather rare and they usually have bigger fish to fry. I've heard of them on the internet, but never encountered any.

3. Haters. There are a few ex-cachers who probably have a grudge against caching for some perceived wrong. They may target caches in general, or specific cachers. Either way the problem is personal, not philosophical. Fortunately few people are such irrational grudgebearers. I've met a few people I suspect are or easily could be Haters.

4. Griefers. These people have no personal or philosophical problem with geocaching, they simply get pleasure from hurting the feelings of others. They're not limited to geocaching and manifest in different ways. They like being bullies, giving in to their inner five year old, doing bad things for the LOLZ or because they're bored. Most of these people are either very immature jerks, children, sadists, and/or sociopaths. This is I think the largest category. Fortunately, they are also usually short term cache maggots, either only trashing caches they find by accident or getting bored trashing caches so they move on to something else. I've met non-caching Griefers (anyone who is in gaming for awhile encounters them) and hear about cache maggots occasionally, but I don't think I've met any Griefers involved in geocaching except for the pro-caching variety.

(Pro-caching Griefers are the kind who intentionally hide difficult caches on a regular basis, especially evil nanos. They derive their pleasure from the same subconscious level of causing suffering - in this case, frustration - in others as anti-caching Griefers. They're sadists, but at least they're usually friendly, creative sadists and not destructive.)

Edited by JL_HSTRE
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I recently found a geoache which had some interesting entries in the logbook. Going back to 2014, there appears to a be non geocacher that found this remote wilderness cache and wrote some negative comments about geocaching in the book, even threatening to remove the cache entirely. While this person didn't make good on that threat, they continue to visit the cache once or twice a year and leave new comments each time they visit, sometimes calling the geocache trash, other times bemoaning how geocachers are "robots", sheep" or "connected lemmings", and suggesting that they are somehow unable to properly enjoy the area. It was interesting to see this person repeatedly leave these comments year after year, and the comments that geocachers would leave in response. It almost seemed like a dialogue of sorts, except the geocachers are only visiting the location a single time and are not seeing this person's replies and retorts.

It got me thinking about what this person must be like and I ended up writing a blog post about it. The post also has pictures from the logbook. If I had to categorize this person from JL_HSTRE's list, I would probably say this person is a combination of #1 and #2. They view the geocache as trash in the wilderness, and also view the game as pointless/detrimental and not the way people should be getting outside.

The thing I find most amusing about this is that the person keeps on visiting this geocache that they dislike, apparently checking up on it so that they can continue to comment on how they don't like it. It's like now that they know it is there, they can't help themselves but to look at it every time they walk by. I can sympathize with that feeling, even if I don't share this person's sentiments towards geocaching at all.

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13 minutes ago, Fugads said:

It got me thinking about what this person must be like and I ended up writing a blog post about it. The post also has pictures from the logbook. If I had to categorize this person from JL_HSTRE's list, I would probably say this person is a combination of #1 and #2. They view the geocache as trash in the wilderness, and also view the game as pointless/detrimental and not the way people should be getting outside.

Interesting...  If you do ever get to speak with this guy (writings look like a guy),  please ask about their opinions on summit logs as well.  I consider this hobby similar, only with better containers than a candle box or coffee can (well, maybe not much these days...), and can't recall one without a "log" to sign .  Thanks.  :) 

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