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What is Geocaching brochures

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Does anyone know where I can get cards or brochures which describe what geocaching is all about? I know of the ones on GC.com, but they are more "Let's get started" descriptions, rather than "Here, officer, this is what I'm doing" explanations.

 

Ideally I would want them in several languages as I'm heading to several European countries in a few months.

 

Thanks

 

Tony

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Does anyone know where I can get cards or brochures which describe what geocaching is all about? I know of the ones on GC.com, but they are more "Let's get started" descriptions, rather than "Here, officer, this is what I'm doing" explanations.

 

Ideally I would want them in several languages as I'm heading to several European countries in a few months.

 

Thanks

 

Tony

Some time ago found some on Google. There are plenty there that can be downloaded and printed (and laminated if you want to go that far).

Here's an example you could use to make up your own if you want.

 

https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/228144217/geocaching-muggle-cards-swag?ref=market

 

You could use Google translate for the foreign language but it would be beneficial to have them proff read by some one who speaks the language.

Edited by colleda

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I carry laminated cards that fit in my wallet. I haven't yet been questioned by the police but I have been asked by some passing muggles. I simply say I'm geocaching and if they ask what that is, I show them the card. If they're interested, they take the card with them. Here is the text of the card:

 

GEOCACHING is an exciting, family friendly, treasure hunting game using a handheld GPS unit or a GPS enabled smart phone. Containers of differing sizes, called geocaches, are hidden in a variety of locations all around the world. They are often camouflaged to keep their whereabouts a secret. Each geocache contains a logbook for the finder to sign and may contain treasure for the finder to swap. At present there are over 6 million people enjoying this recreational activity by searching for over 2 million active geocaches. There could be one hidden close to your home!

www.geocaching.com

 

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Edited by Calypso62

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Thanks for that, Claypso. I've decided to print myself some business cards and have taken part of your text as the basis.

 

The front of my card will read

I am Geocaching

Geocaching is a world-wide family-friendly 
hide-and-seek game played using 
GPS-enabled devices.

There are over 7,500,000 players 
searching for more than 2,500,000 
caches in over 170 countries.

I am searching for a cache hidden nearby.  
Please look at my GPS device for details.

The back will read

A cache may be as small as a pencil eraser 
or as large as a barrel, but it must contain 
a paper log so players can sign their name 
as evidence of their visit. A cache will often 
be camouflaged to keep its whereabouts a secret.

There may be trinkets inside, but players are 
strictly prohibited from leaving dangerous 
items, food or things which may not be 
family-friendly.

The main aim of these cards will be to hand to police or other people who don't speak English. Once I'm happy with the text, I'm planning to post the final text into a thread here in the hope that helpful folk will translate it into their native tongue.

 

So, if anyone has any comments on the text, please feel free to comment, criticise or offer suggestions on how to improve it.

 

Thanks

 

Tony

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So, if anyone has any comments on the text, please feel free to comment, criticise or offer suggestions on how to improve it.

Good idea. I think the only part I'd change is this:

 

A cache will often be camouflaged to keep its whereabouts a secret.

We (cachers) are not trying to keep the location a secret, especially since we're posting the coordinates of where it is. Instead, we're trying to keep it from the sight of non-cachers and/or make it harder to find. I'd maybe say something like:

 

"A cache will often be camouflaged to make it more challenging to find."

 

Emphasizing that some caches are difficult to find might also help explain why you're spending a lot of time looking around the same area, by communicating to whomever receives the card that these can be hard to find. Other than that minor thing, it seems like good info.

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"A cache will often be camouflaged to make it more challenging to find."

 

I like that so I'm changing my card to include this. Thanks

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Thanks for that, Claypso. I've decided to print myself some business cards and have taken part of your text as the basis.

 

The front of my card will read

I am Geocaching

Geocaching is a world-wide family-friendly 
hide-and-seek game played using 
GPS-enabled devices.

There are over 7,500,000 players 
searching for more than 2,500,000 
caches in over 170 countries.

I am searching for a cache hidden nearby.  
Please look at my GPS device for details.

The back will read

A cache may be as small as a pencil eraser 
or as large as a barrel, but it must contain 
a paper log so players can sign their name 
as evidence of their visit. A cache will often 
be camouflaged to keep its whereabouts a secret.

There may be trinkets inside, but players are 
strictly prohibited from leaving dangerous 
items, food or things which may not be 
family-friendly.

The main aim of these cards will be to hand to police or other people who don't speak English. Once I'm happy with the text, I'm planning to post the final text into a thread here in the hope that helpful folk will translate it into their native tongue.

 

So, if anyone has any comments on the text, please feel free to comment, criticise or offer suggestions on how to improve it.

 

Thanks

 

Tony

 

I could have used something like this when I had encounter with a couple of policemen in Italy. What really helped in that case was that I was able to give them the URL for the geocaching web site where they were able to read more information about the game. Including "For more information go to www.geocaching.com" might be a helpful addition to your text. The other thing that helped was an assurance that caches were placed with permission and would not be located on private property or some location where the public was not allowed.

Edited by NYPaddleCacher

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Thanks to Noncentric for the suggestion, now incorporated.

 

To NYPaddleCacher - it was your earlier post describing your experience in Rome which prompted me to think about this. I've added the link you suggested to the text.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

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FWIW, here's the text from the cache note portion of the extra logs that I print and carry in my geocaching kit:

Congratulations! You found an official geocache!

Geocaching is a high-tech scavenger hunt where players (geocachers) use GPS to find hidden containers (like this one). The basic rules are:

  1. Sign and date the log sheet.
  2. Trade items if you want to, just remember to leave something of equal or greater value.
  3. Re-hide the container exactly where and how you found it.

Please re-seal the container carefully so it stays weather-proof. Do not leave anything edible, dangerous, or illegal.

If you find something labeled “Trackable at Geocaching.com”, then it’s best to leave it in the geocache unless you know what to do with it.

To join us, or to learn more, visit

www.geocaching.com

If this container happens to be on private property and you wish it removed, then please let us know. We apologize, and will be happy to move it.

Feel free to use any of this wording if you find it useful.

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Thanks to Noncentric for the suggestion, now incorporated.

 

To NYPaddleCacher - it was your earlier post describing your experience in Rome which prompted me to think about this. I've added the link you suggested to the text.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

 

Don't you have an upcoming trip in Europe where you might use these as well? When I looked at some of the available brochures in the past I found that GS has several on their site but were somewhat difficult to find and that they seemed more promotional than for a target audiences of LEOs or land managers.

 

The other thing I would like to see would be to create them in a format that looked a little more "professional" and not something someone just typed up in a text editor. If I can find some free time I might build a little web application as an open source project that would allow others to submit translated versions and generate brochures in printable PDF formats. It would probably need to blessing from GS to use their logo and other graphics but I think it would be worth the effort.

 

 

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"A cache will often be camouflaged to make it more challenging to find."

 

I like that so I'm changing my card to include this. Thanks

 

Thanks to Noncentric for the suggestion, now incorporated.

 

I'm glad it was useful. Creating such cards seems like a good idea. I haven't had the need for these myself, yet, but you've gotten me thinking that maybe I should print some out as well.

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To NYPaddleCacher

 

Yes. Actually I have two trips planned. A major trip in September/October and another in December. The latter ends up in the USA so I don't expect too may language problems there.

 

-------

 

I've started a new thread here so folk can post translations in their native language. I'm hoping a moderator will pin the thread somewhere so that the translations can be freely available.

 

I'm particularly interested in French, German, Italian and Dutch, but I'm also going to Croatia, Lithuania, Hungary Switzerland and Belgium so any and all translations will be useful.

Edited by Gill & Tony

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I'm from Germany and I'm talking to all other people here in Europe without knowing there native language.

Very easy, because we all share one common language, English.

 

So, If I can talk to those people in English, you shouldn't be too concerned if you speak English to.

 

Regards, MB

Edited by Mausebiber

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I'm from Germany and I'm talking to all other people here in Europe without knowing there native language.

Very easy, because we all share one common language, English.

 

So, If I can talk to those people in English, you shouldn't be too concerned if you speak English to.

 

Regards, MB

I'm sure you are right, but it just needs one experience like NYPaddleCacher had in Rome to cause a problem. I look at these a bit like travel insurance. I hope I don't need them, I don't expect to need them, but if I do need them I'd rather have them than not. For a few cents a card they are a lot cheaper than travel insurance :D

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I'm sure you are right, but it just needs one experience like NYPaddleCacher had in Rome to cause a problem. I look at these a bit like travel insurance. I hope I don't need them, I don't expect to need them, but if I do need them I'd rather have them than not. For a few cents a card they are a lot cheaper than travel insurance :D

 

Of course not everyone in Europe can understand English though many actually can.

To me parts of what you write in your text however do not seem to address to people whom you want to explain that what you do is harmless. It's more like a section from the guidelines what to do and what not to do. As I cannot identify with your text, I will not provide a German translation over in the other thread (the version suggested there does not come from a native speaker and contains many mistakes).

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I'm sure you are right, but it just needs one experience like NYPaddleCacher had in Rome to cause a problem. I look at these a bit like travel insurance. I hope I don't need them, I don't expect to need them, but if I do need them I'd rather have them than not. For a few cents a card they are a lot cheaper than travel insurance :D

 

Of course not everyone in Europe can understand English though many actually can.

To me parts of what you write in your text however do not seem to address to people whom you want to explain that what you do is harmless. It's more like a section from the guidelines what to do and what not to do. As I cannot identify with your text, I will not provide a German translation over in the other thread (the version suggested there does not come from a native speaker and contains many mistakes).

 

I think that what G&T has come up with is a really good start for explaining that the activity is harmless. I can only go by my one experience but the LEOs that I encountered seemed to be mostly concerned with why there were names and dates on the log sheet and that people weren't going into to historic, sensitive areas (they specially asked if there were any in the Roman forum). Assurances that permission is required and that the modification or defacement of existing objects is important.

 

That said, the text of the card isn't set in stone. That's why I set up a github repository that will allowed the text to be "versioned". If there are mistakes in any of the translations corrected versions can be submitted and I'll update the repository. I'm treating it like a typically community open source project. Open source project *rely* on others to correct what may be wrong and submit it back to the project. Of course, anyone is free to download a version and make any corrections they deem necessary and use that instead. Nobody is forcing anyone to use anyone to use the text as is.

 

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I think that what G&T has come up with is a really good start for explaining that the activity is harmless. I can only go by my one experience but the LEOs that I encountered seemed to be mostly concerned with why there were names and dates on the log sheet and that people weren't going into to historic, sensitive areas (they specially asked if there were any in the Roman forum). Assurances that permission is required and that the modification or defacement of existing objects is important.

 

 

While it seems true that no cache is hidden inside the forum romanum, of all the geocaches I visited in (central) Europe not only a few are hidden in historic and sensitive areas and I guess the majority of all geocaches I have visited is hidden without any permission (not all might need one, and only in very rare cases a cache gets archived because of lack of permission, for example in the wilderness area Dürrenstein, the largest remaining primeval forest in Central Europe, a nature reserve of the category Ia IUCN, or caches between railway tracks when someone posts NA) and would not get permission anyway for telephone boxes, traffic signs, railway property, on or below bridges, in roundabouts, in/modyfing guide posts, in caves, in stone walls, at chapels, in graveyards, in a quarry, on natural preserves and forests owned by large landowners, in ruins or lost places and not only one geocache I found is modifying and/or defacing (if you see it from the other, non-geocaching side) existing objects and this is seems to me not because of some black sheep but the perception that geocaching is/was a secret unnoticed activity.

 

And maybe there is a diffence to other countries where private property goes absolutely first and what is not explicitely allowed is preceived as trespass and countries like Austria, where the path allowance (Wegerecht) allows the access to all agricultural land (except ploughed fields and meadows) and to forests and to non-productive areas like barren with few exeptions even without the permission of the owner and where large natural areas (more than 10% of the territory) and the majority of the lakes are owned by the republic itself.

 

So based on what I've seen until now and what seems acceptable for the majority of geocachers (and also reviewers that don't ask for written permission even for T5 on bridges or caches on railway property where you can expect that no authority will grant one) in a region (and also where a lot of Germans, Austrians, Czechs, Slovaks and Poles go for vacation and for geocaching, like the Croatian Coast) then assuring that permission is required and no modification or defacement of existing objects happens seems simply strange to me, no matter what the guidelines tell about it, but obvious this seems a cultural thing.

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Of course, anyone is free to download a version and make any corrections they deem necessary and use that instead. Nobody is forcing anyone to use anyone to use the text as is.

 

Of course not. I just thought that it should be pointed out that the German version which has been suggested contains quite a number of mistakes.

 

Moreover, I guess that it is not too likely that a native speaker will provide a translation of exactly the text G+T prepared.

 

I did not intend to go into details, but believe me that information about family-friendliness of swag is certainly nothing anyone here will be interested into (neither geocachers nor muggles nor authorities). Actually, family-friendliness is anyhow a much less important topic around here as also some other topics are that are much more important for e.g. in the context of geocaching in North America.

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And personally I believe that if you have (without being met with a geocache in your hands and an officer asking what it is) to admit that you are at a certain location because you are geocaching then something is wrong anyway if you can't be there simply having a walk, looking in the sky, taking photos, looking for your fallen down key or writing long love letters on your smartphone.

 

And if you are met with a container in your hands by an officer asking what you are doing here it is of no relevance what the guidelines say, as you can't know (well sometimes you could suspect there can't be a permission for this placement) the truth behind the placement. Then not speaking the language I'd rather have a more detailed brochure about geocaching with me and a card that tells the officer

 

"I am geocaching and was searching for a cache hidden nearby. Geocaching is a real-world, outdoor treasure hunting game using GPS-enabled devices where players attempt to find a geocache (container) hidden at specific coordinates. If more information is needed please have look at that more detailed brochure or www.geocaching.com or look at my GPS device for details for this geocache."

 

and one spare

 

"If this container needs to be removed for any reason, please contact the geocache owner at the email address listed inside the cache or visit geocaching.com/help and send a message with unique information about the geocache, such as the GC code, geocache name, or a nearby address (including the city and country)."

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I think that what G&T has come up with is a really good start for explaining that the activity is harmless. I can only go by my one experience but the LEOs that I encountered seemed to be mostly concerned with why there were names and dates on the log sheet and that people weren't going into to historic, sensitive areas (they specially asked if there were any in the Roman forum). Assurances that permission is required and that the modification or defacement of existing objects is important.

 

 

While it seems true that no cache is hidden inside the forum romanum, of all the geocaches I visited in (central) Europe not only a few are hidden in historic and sensitive areas and I guess the majority of all geocaches I have visited is hidden without any permission (not all might need one, and only in very rare cases a cache gets archived because of lack of permission, for example in the wilderness area Dürrenstein, the largest remaining primeval forest in Central Europe, a nature reserve of the category Ia IUCN, or caches between railway tracks when someone posts NA) and would not get permission anyway for telephone boxes, traffic signs, railway property, on or below bridges, in roundabouts, in/modyfing guide posts, in caves, in stone walls, at chapels, in graveyards, in a quarry, on natural preserves and forests owned by large landowners, in ruins or lost places and not only one geocache I found is modifying and/or defacing (if you see it from the other, non-geocaching side) existing objects and this is seems to me not because of some black sheep but the perception that geocaching is/was a secret unnoticed activity.

 

That may be more the reality of geocaching, but the real goal here is the try to have something simple and understandable that would tell an authority (or even a land manager) that Geocaching is a game played by responsible people. The suggestion that it's a family activity is to imply that it's not some secret activity played by anarchists. Geocachers can't even agree upon an definition of "a find" but we don't need to explain all that.

 

 

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And personally I believe that if you have (without being met with a geocache in your hands and an officer asking what it is) to admit that you are at a certain location because you are geocaching then something is wrong anyway if you can't be there simply having a walk, looking in the sky, taking photos, looking for your fallen down key or writing long love letters on your smartphone.

 

And if you are met with a container in your hands by an officer asking what you are doing here it is of no relevance what the guidelines say, as you can't know (well sometimes you could suspect there can't be a permission for this placement) the truth behind the placement. Then not speaking the language I'd rather have a more detailed brochure about geocaching with me and a card that tells the officer

 

"I am geocaching and was searching for a cache hidden nearby. Geocaching is a real-world, outdoor treasure hunting game using GPS-enabled devices where players attempt to find a geocache (container) hidden at specific coordinates. If more information is needed please have look at that more detailed brochure or www.geocaching.com or look at my GPS device for details for this geocache."

 

and one spare

 

"If this container needs to be removed for any reason, please contact the geocache owner at the email address listed inside the cache or visit geocaching.com/help and send a message with unique information about the geocache, such as the GC code, geocache name, or a nearby address (including the city and country)."

 

That last paragraph would actually be a nice addition to a "I am Geocaching" brochure. In my encounter in Rome I told the polizia that I would contact the person the geocache if they felt it should be removed, and offered to return it to the location where it was found, but they said that they would return it themselves. It was found by someone else later in the day and continues to be found.

 

I don't have a problem with maintaining a "brief" I am Geocaching brochure and Detailed version in the repository I set up but I'm not going to try to enforce what the content should be.

 

 

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That may be more the reality of geocaching, but the real goal here is the try to have something simple and understandable that would tell an authority (or even a land manager) that Geocaching is a game played by responsible people. The suggestion that it's a family activity is to imply that it's not some secret activity played by anarchists. Geocachers can't even agree upon an definition of "a find" but we don't need to explain all that.

 

Typically the most types of encounter a geocacher will have are however not with authorities and land managers, and then what AnnaMoritz wrote becomes relevant again. Telling about geocaching should be the recourse only if it's really necessary and there is no reason to explain a bored local looking out of the window about geocaching without any real need.

 

Moreover, I do not think that the police cares about which trading stuff might be in a cache - so the part about food etc seems to be much less important than many other things. Also authorities in countries like Austria and Germany (and many others) will not really care about the family-friendliness.

 

I'm not sure whether you maybe misunderstood some comments by AnnaMoritz. The intent was not to include all those things which occur in the geocaching reality on a card or in a brochure. However anyone who travels around to cache in countries with a different caching tradition and different rules should not rely on that what is true at home is also true somewhere else. I never ever would tell the authorities here that geocachers do not deface or change objects because it's simply not true here.

 

You also always need to use your own judgement whether you are allowed to reach a location - just the fact that a cache is there, will not help you in that regard.

Edited by cezanne

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That may be more the reality of geocaching, but the real goal here is the try to have something simple and understandable that would tell an authority (or even a land manager) that Geocaching is a game played by responsible people. The suggestion that it's a family activity is to imply that it's not some secret activity played by anarchists. Geocachers can't even agree upon an definition of "a find" but we don't need to explain all that.

 

Typically the most types of encounter a geocacher will have are however not with authorities and land managers, and then what AnnaMoritz wrote becomes relevant again. Telling about geocaching should be the recourse only if it's really necessary and there is no reason to explain a bored local looking out of the window about geocaching without any real need.

 

It may be relevant if what G&T was trying to accomplish was to come up to a brochure that could be shown to every non-geocacher one might encounter but that's not what they're trying to do. All they're trying to do is create a simple card which explains what they're doing to someone when there is a language barrier. It doesn't need to be perfect and cover every possible scenario.

 

At the end of the day, if someone is geocaching in a country in which they don't understand the native language, and they are approached by a LEO, having something the conveys the idea that they're engaged in a harmless activity is better than nothing at all.

 

 

Moreover, I do not think that the police cares about which trading stuff might be in a cache - so the part about food etc seems to be much less important than many other things.

 

The part about food may be very interesting to someone that might be concerned about someone from another country (and especially another continent) bringing a food item into the country and leaving it there. The section about swag is mostly to convey the idea that geocache containers aren't being used to store illegal contraband and that may include food. Here is what the U.S. Customs site says about bringing food into the U.S.

 

"You must declare all food products. Failure to declare food products can result in up to $10,000 in fines and penalties."

 

 

Also authorities in countries like Austria and Germany (and many others) will not really care about the family-friendliness.

 

 

The inclusion of "family-friendly" is more to convey the idea that it's a game played by families, is generally a wholesome activity, and not some underground porn trading cult. Even if authorities in Austria and Germany don't care if it's a game governed by a guideline that prohibits swag that isn't family friendly I am completely baffled that someone would complain about the inclusion of language that indicates that the game is intended to be a wholesome activity.

 

Nobody has mandated that each version of a card in a different language needs to be a word for word translation. If there is something unique about caching in a specific country, additional text could be included which addresses a specific issue could be added. For example, I wouldn't want have a Spanish language direct translation of the English version to hand to a LEO in Cuba. The card states that it's a "game played using GPS-enabled devices.". It's illegal to bring a GPS into Cuba so a version which describe the game as a "location based game" might not raise a red flag as much as a version which implied that a GPS must be used.

 

If there was something truly unique about geocaching in Austria and information that could made available to a LEO in Austria that could prevent an uncomfortable encounter that it would be worth having a de_AT version. You could provide that but you seem more interested in arguing and complaining about why this won't work in Austria than helping a geocacher that might visit your country.

 

 

I'm not sure whether you maybe misunderstood some comments by AnnaMoritz. The intent was not to include all those things which occur in the geocaching reality on a card or in a brochure. However anyone who travels around to cache in countries with a different caching tradition and different rules should not rely on that what is true at home is also true somewhere else.

 

As I have geocached in 21 different countries on four continents I think I have a fair amount of experience for how geocaching is different in different places, and frankly my experience is that it's really not all that different as you claim.

 

 

I never ever would tell the authorities here that geocachers do not deface or change objects because it's simply not true here.

 

You also always need to use your own judgement whether you are allowed to reach a location - just the fact that a cache is there, will not help you in that regard.

 

You're really missing the point. The purpose of the card isn't go guarantee that none of the 7+ million geocachers never break any rules. I think it's a good bet that no LEO ever would assume that because there are rules that nobody will ever break them. The point is just to inform the LEO that the game we're playing is governed by a set of guidelines that suggest that the activity we're in engaged in is intended to be played in a manner that isn't breaking any laws and not some underground covert activity with no concern for local laws.

 

 

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Of course, anyone is free to download a version and make any corrections they deem necessary and use that instead. Nobody is forcing anyone to use anyone to use the text as is.

 

Of course not. I just thought that it should be pointed out that the German version which has been suggested contains quite a number of mistakes.

 

Moreover, I guess that it is not too likely that a native speaker will provide a translation of exactly the text G+T prepared.

 

I did not intend to go into details, but believe me that information about family-friendliness of swag is certainly nothing anyone here will be interested into (neither geocachers nor muggles nor authorities). Actually, family-friendliness is anyhow a much less important topic around here as also some other topics are that are much more important for e.g. in the context of geocaching in North America.

That is very useful information, cezanne. Perhaps, instead of translating my text, you might consider contributing a new version more suitable for European audiences.

 

Thanks

 

Tony

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I had hoped that this thread would be used for discussion and the other thread would be restricted to translations. Is there an accepted way to ask a moderator to merger discussion posts from the other thread into this one?

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It may be relevant if what G&T was trying to accomplish was to come up to a brochure that could be shown to every non-geocacher one might encounter but that's not what they're trying to do. All they're trying to do is create a simple card which explains what they're doing to someone when there is a language barrier. It doesn't need to be perfect and cover every possible scenario.

 

No, it does not need to be perfect but the point is that it rather should not be showed to someone without necessity - that's not an issue of the language barrier as whether the info is on a card or whether one personally tells someone about geocaching does not make a difference, It should be avoided if possible.

 

At the end of the day, if someone is geocaching in a country in which they don't understand the native language, and they are approached by a LEO, having something the conveys the idea that they're engaged in a harmless activity is better than nothing at all.

 

I agree but I I apparently missed the mention of LEO in the posts of G+T.

For me it makes a big difference whether we talk about a card which is shown to LEOs and other authorities or do any muggle asking "What are you doing here?" (and yes, this question can easily come and I encountered it many times in my caching time).

 

Edit: I realized that the police is mentioned in the other thread but not over here where I read all the posts.

 

The part about food may be very interesting to someone that might be concerned about someone from another country (and especially another continent) bringing a food item into the country and leaving it there. The section about swag is mostly to convey the idea that geocache containers aren't being used to store illegal contraband and that may include food. Here is what the U.S. Customs site says about bringing food into the U.S.

 

I'm aware of the US regulations and when I have come across them for the first time many years ago it seemed very strange to me that they one might even end up with an issue with having a single apple in one's luggage.

 

I cannot imagine a police officer in my country caring about whether someone brought along a food item from somewhere else. That's a completely different world.

 

The inclusion of "family-friendly" is more to convey the idea that it's a game played by families, is generally a wholesome activity, and not some underground porn trading cult. Even if authorities in Austria and Germany don't care if it's a game governed by a guideline that prohibits swag that isn't family friendly I am completely baffled that someone would complain about the inclusion of language that indicates that the game is intended to be a wholesome activity.

 

I did not say that but if someone translates the English version word by word, what might be the reason for including certain formulations does not come across any longer.

That was one of the reasons why it did not make sense to me just to produce a stubborn German version of the proposed English one.

 

Nobody has mandated that each version of a card in a different language needs to be a word for word translation. If there is something unique about caching in a specific country, additional text could be included which addresses a specific issue could be added.

 

Nobody said anything contrary and in order to understand what the English version tries to convey, this needs to be discussed and questioned first.

When someone translates something for his/her own purpose, that's not a big deal to deviate from the original. One can hardly do that if someone asks for a translation like it happened here.

 

For example, I wouldn't want have a Spanish language direct translation of the English version to hand to a LEO in Cuba. The card states that it's a "game played using GPS-enabled devices.". It's illegal to bring a GPS into Cuba so a version which describe the game as a "location based game" might not raise a red flag as much as a version which implied that a GPS must be used.

 

Good point. That's also one of the reasons why I reacted sceptically to the request of G+T without prior discussion. Cuba will not be on the list however anyway.

 

If there was something truly unique about geocaching in Austria and information that could made available to a LEO in Austria that could prevent an uncomfortable encounter that it would be worth having a de_AT version. You could provide that but you seem more interested in arguing and complaining about why this won't work in Austria than helping a geocacher that might visit your country.

 

Actually why do you think that AnnaMoritz and myself mentioned what we mentioned? We mentioned it exactly to try to help someone not to end up in troubles due to wrong expectations.

 

As the card text is regarded, it makes a big difference to me whether the card is shown to whomever one encounters who asks what one is doing here or just to what you refer to as LEOs.

 

My intent was not to complain, just to get a clearer picture of what should be conveyed on the one hand and on the other hand to point that some of the basic assumptions you make are simply not true.

 

Of course you can hand out a card saying that geocachers never deface anything but if you get caught at a cache where it is obvious that something has been defaced there, that will not be very helpful to let you end up credible, right?

 

As I have geocached in 21 different countries on four continents I think I have a fair amount of experience for how geocaching is different in different places, and frankly my experience is that it's really not all that different as you claim.

 

I think you have mainly concentrated on quick urban traditionals in Europe and not on the sort of caches that we wrote about.

If G+T will stick only to the same sort of caches, the chances to end up in certain kinds of troubles is definitely reduced - however in a city like Vienna it is still there.

 

 

The purpose of the card isn't go guarantee that none of the 7+ million geocachers never break any rules.

 

I never understood it that way. Just read what I wrote above about credibility when being confronted by a LEO and take also into account what I wrote about that it is helpful for someone coming to Europe to cache that some basic assumptions that might be true at home are not true here.

 

I think it's a good bet that no LEO ever would assume that because there are rules that nobody will ever break them. The point is just to inform the LEO that the game we're playing is governed by a set of guidelines that suggest that the activity we're in engaged in is intended to be played in a manner that isn't breaking any laws and not some underground covert activity with no concern for local laws.

 

I agree with the first statement. But suppose you are caught when you cross an active railroad track (just an example of many). Do you really think that it will help you when you present a card mentioning what geocachers are not supposed to do when you are just caught doing something you should not do?

 

It seems to me that one point you apparently did not get is that the point I tried to make was not that there will always be a few cachers breaking some rules but that there are a lot of rules you would expect that the majority of cachers care about but it's simply not true. So you will encounter caches that break the rules in your terminology with hundreds of finds and noone complaining or even mentioning the issue. I think that this is something important to take into account both in terms of preparing and selecting caches and in terms of taking into account that some arguments are not very credible if one is caught to not live up to them.

Edited by cezanne

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That is very useful information, cezanne. Perhaps, instead of translating my text, you might consider contributing a new version more suitable for European audiences.

 

I think that what AnnaMoritz suggested would be good start. However it will depend a lot on whom you intend to show such a card. Over in the other thread you mentioned police, here you did not mentjion anyway.

 

I would use a completely different sort of approach of dealing with muggles than with authorities.

 

Moreover while I think it's a good idea by NYPaddleCacher to set up a repository, I think that for using the different language versions on a larger scale, a more neutral text might make sense.

For your personal use, "have a look at my GPS-device" makes sense. On my GPS-device they would not see anything that could inform them about geocaches.

The new German version refers to GPS-device or smartphone. That extends the range of cachers to which it will apply, but still not all are comprised.

 

My own personal approach would be to first agree on a text and its meaning and then care about getting this message across in other languages (that's more than just translating).

 

Right now I see it as waste of time to native speakers of languages which have not been covered for their help.

 

As your personal journey is regarded (not the card you intend to bring along), do you plan to visit mainly urban caches? If also plan to visit caches in forest areas, I'd recommend to you to get some informations about the rules that are very different across Europe (almost each country has its own rules).

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As your personal journey is regarded (not the card you intend to bring along), do you plan to visit mainly urban caches? If also plan to visit caches in forest areas, I'd recommend to you to get some informations about the rules that are very different across Europe (almost each country has its own rules).

I will be part of an organized tour for the first 4 weeks and will be restricted to where the group takes us. This will mostly be urban areas, but some will be in the country. I don't expect to be doing any hiking. The last two weeks will be on our own, driving from Amsterdam to Switzerland and then touring Switzerland. This will be less urban, but I still don't expect to be doing anything like a serious hike - maybe a walk to a waterfall or a scenic lookout, but no major hikes.

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That may be more the reality of geocaching, but the real goal here is the try to have something simple and understandable that would tell an authority (or even a land manager) that Geocaching is a game played by responsible people. The suggestion that it's a family activity is to imply that it's not some secret activity played by anarchists. Geocachers can't even agree upon an definition of "a find" but we don't need to explain all that.

 

Typically the most types of encounter a geocacher will have are however not with authorities and land managers, and then what AnnaMoritz wrote becomes relevant again. Telling about geocaching should be the recourse only if it's really necessary and there is no reason to explain a bored local looking out of the window about geocaching without any real need.

 

Moreover, I do not think that the police cares about which trading stuff might be in a cache - so the part about food etc seems to be much less important than many other things. Also authorities in countries like Austria and Germany (and many others) will not really care about the family-friendliness.

 

I'm not sure whether you maybe misunderstood some comments by AnnaMoritz. The intent was not to include all those things which occur in the geocaching reality on a card or in a brochure. However anyone who travels around to cache in countries with a different caching tradition and different rules should not rely on that what is true at home is also true somewhere else. I never ever would tell the authorities here that geocachers do not deface or change objects because it's simply not true here.

 

You also always need to use your own judgement whether you are allowed to reach a location - just the fact that a cache is there, will not help you in that regard.

I'm curious as to why it seems to bother you so much that there may be unnecessary information on the card. So what? If they don't care to read about the swag or what is or is not allowed in the cache, they won't read it. What is your resistance here all about, and why do you not want to help provide a better translation? You have me very confused.

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I'm curious as to why it seems to bother you so much that there may be unnecessary information on the card. So what? If they don't care to read about the swag or what is or is not allowed in the cache, they won't read it.

 

The issue I have is wuith situations where what is written on the card does not reflect the reality. Another point I adressed is of course that it makes a huge difference to whom and under which circumstances the card is shown. I have explained that before. A text for authorities is something else than a card shown to curious muggles (which in my opinion rather should not be told about geocaching anyhow).

 

For example, statements about no defacement on the card text will come across quite weird if someone is caught at a cache where of course some form of defacement has taken place.

The same is true when being caught when crossing an active railroad track or being caught on private property when the property owner is not informed about the cache (standard case).

 

One thing is coming up with a text in one language, another one is fully understanding why particular phrases are used in that language as only this allows to come up with a reasonable version in other languages (translations are not what is called for in my opinion in this context, though of course much easier) and still another one, and maybe the most important one is to make cachers aware that not all what they are used to to be true in their home setting is true everywhere.

 

Of course if G+T is applying the card just for his personal use in the setting of his apparently mainly urban tour with a group (so not much time anyway) where he will hardly be exposed with caches

which do not involve the aspects that make me have a more complex view of the topic.

 

 

 

What is your resistance here all about, and why do you not want to help provide a better translation? You have me very confused.

 

As the German version is concerned, Thore's version can be used anyhow provided one wants to stick to the idea of taking G+T's English text and to translate it quite closely to other languages without further discussion and reflection. That's certainly a valid approach - not mine however.

 

If I'm not convinced about the original text and/or still do not feel that I understand exactly why the used formulations are exactly like they are, I would not even start with translating something apart from the fact that my approach would rather not apply a translation approach but first trying to grasp the intended messages and then try to come up with something that comes as closely as possible to that in another language and caching culture. That of course requires discussion that apparently is too tiresome for the participants here who are interested into something else.

Edited by cezanne

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Well then, don't provide a direct translation. Provide what you think it should say.

 

"Another point I adressed is of course that it makes a huge difference to whom and under which circumstances the card is shown. I have explained that before."

I didn't see where you explained that before. I do see where you said that before. Can you give a concrete example of where it would make a significant difference to whom the card was shown?

Edited by knowschad

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That's pretty good, but wordy. :anicute:

 

The Topic seems to be more about a wallet-sized card version now. There are translations here, with text that may fit on a card:

https://www.geocaching.com/tools/

 

One issue with using text from a pre-printed brochure is, I may wish to use slightly different terms than what a brochure uses, and then I'm right back to needing a translation. For example, I may not wish to use the specific term "Treasure Hunt" (if you like that term as it relates to Geocaching, use it. It's just an example).

Edited by kunarion

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Just go here http://www.geocachin...nline_color.pdf

All information provided

That's pretty good, but wordy. :anicute:

 

The Topic seems to be more about a wallet-sized card version now. There are translations here, with text that may fit on a card:

https://www.geocaching.com/tools/

 

One issue with using text from a pre-printed brochure is, I may wish to use slightly different terms than what a brochure uses, and then I'm right back to needing a translation. For example, I may not wish to use the specific term "Treasure Hunt" (if you like that term as it relates to Geocaching, use it. It's just an example).

 

The main difference between the brochures you point out on the GS site and the wallet-sized cards being proposed is the intended audience. The brochures on those links seem to be written for a potential geocacher and explain how the game is played. The cards being proposed are more for a situation where a LEO or some authority is asking "what are you doing?". Of course, having copies of both wouldn't hurt either.

 

I agree with the "treasure hunt" language. I would prefer something like "electronic scavenger hunt". Similarly, in another post I suggested the for a Spanish version, used in Cuba, it shouldn't mention the use of a GPS device as it's illegal to bring a GPS into Cuba.

 

 

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The cards being proposed are more for a situation where a LEO or some authority is asking "what are you doing?". Of course, having copies of both wouldn't hurt either.

The cards do depend on the situation.

 

LEO is mainly concerned with "What are you doing?". I tell them "I'm Geocaching" and get a blank look, then say "There's a small box hidden here somewhere with a log to sign, I find it with a GPS". And both cops nod, "Oh yeah, we've heard of that!", and they're on their way. I'm also tempted to explain why I'm Geocaching, like "It brings me to many cool places I never even knew about", but I resist because at this moment I'm at a rusty LPC :anicute:. LEO needs to know I'm not in distress, and not causing a problem.

 

If someone walking in a park asks me what I'm doing, their next question is often "can I do this too"? Now we're back to the whole brochure. If the next question is "Why?", that tends to require some explanation. :anibad:

 

If I had a choice, I'd have the minimum text about "scavenger hunt using GPS, it's safe/legal, it's called Geocaching", and have the web site URL for the specifics. That way I only need one card for each language. Yes, if I'm in Cuba, the card might not say I'm "using GPS". Maybe the cards could be organized by region or country rather than "language" only.

 

If the translations go line-by-line, I may choose the lines to print, depending on how much info I want to print, vs how tiny I want all that text to be.

Edited by kunarion

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The cards being proposed are more for a situation where a LEO or some authority is asking "what are you doing?". Of course, having copies of both wouldn't hurt either.

The cards do depend on the situation.

 

LEO is mainly concerned with "What are you doing?". I tell them "I'm Geocaching" and get a blank look, then say "There's a small box hidden here somewhere with a log to sign, I find it with a GPS". And both cops nod, "Oh yeah, we've heard of that!", and they're on their way. I'm also tempted to explain why I'm Geocaching, like "It brings me to many cool places I never even knew about", but I resist because at this moment I'm at a rusty LPC :anicute:. LEO needs to know I'm not in distress, and not causing a problem.

 

Yes, that about covers it. The tricky part is when the you and the LEO don't speak a common language.

 

 

If someone walking in a park asks me what I'm doing, their next question is often "can I do this too"? Now we're back to the whole brochure. If the next question is "Why?", that tends to require some explanation. :anibad:

 

If I had a choice, I'd have the minimum text about "scavenger hunt using GPS, it's safe/legal, it's called Geocaching", and have the web site URL for the specifics. That way I only need one card for each language. Yes, if I'm in Cuba, the card might not say I'm "using GPS". Maybe the cards could be organized by region or country rather than "language" only.

 

That's why I used standard Locale strings which define a language and a region (e.g. .en_US is English as spoken in the U.S. vs. en_UK is English as spoken in the UK). The actual text may be nearly identical but it does allow for differences. The repository also includes a Readme.md (yes, the md means Markdown) that describes each file (e.g. Portuguese/Portugal) and could include any additional useful information.

 

 

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