Found cache question

[BenL982]

Hello, I found a cache today which was high up in a tree. Due to a disability I have, I was unable to reach the cache. I logged it on my phone that I had found it, then soon after I received a message from the owner of the cache asking me to delete my log because I didn't Retrieve,sign and replace the cache. I have now done so but I find it very unfair that I should have to, especially more so that I am disabled and I physically cannot reach all the caches I find.

Now I am questioning wether I can log a find if I am unable to get the cache in my hand to sign the log sheet or is just being able to spot the cache enough to record a log? Does anyone else log a find even if they cannot sign the log but has seen the cache, disability or not?.

Thanks

[+JohnCNA]

Hello, I found a cache today which was high up in a tree. Due to a disability I have, I was unable to reach the cache. I logged it on my phone that I had found it, then soon after I received a message from the owner of the cache asking me to delete my log because I didn't Retrieve,sign and replace the cache. I have now done so but I find it very unfair that I should have to, especially more so that I am disabled and I physically cannot reach all the caches I find.

Now I am questioning wether I can log a find if I am unable to get the cache in my hand to sign the log sheet or is just being able to spot the cache enough to record a log? Does anyone else log a find even if they cannot sign the log but has seen the cache, disability or not?.

Thanks

The rules of the game say you have to sign the physical log in order to claim a find. Nothing unfair about that at all. I take a pass on most of the tree climbs myself. I don't have to get them all. There's way more than I could get in a lifetime, so I'm not really missing anything if I take a pass on the ones I don't or can't go after.

[+jellis]

Not to offend but how disabled are you? I am not but I don't like climbing trees. There are some, depending how high up or if they are wired on, I just ignore those or wait til I am with someone who can climb a tree. But if it's not too high up and maybe less then 20 ft and not wired, I use a grabby stick, hiking pole or an extendable painter's pole to retrieve and return the cache.

I know it seems unfair but there will be others you can't do. Like rope down a cliff to a beach, crawl through storm drains, scuba dive the ocean trench off of Europe, or fly to the space station. That is why they are high terrain caches. There are other ones that are doable like kayak or 4x4 in the desert.

[Pup Patrol]

Hello, I found a cache today which was high up in a tree. Due to a disability I have, I was unable to reach the cache. I logged it on my phone that I had found it, then soon after I received a message from the owner of the cache asking me to delete my log because I didn't Retrieve,sign and replace the cache. I have now done so but I find it very unfair that I should have to, especially more so that I am disabled and I physically cannot reach all the caches I find.

Now I am questioning wether I can log a find if I am unable to get the cache in my hand to sign the log sheet or is just being able to spot the cache enough to record a log? Does anyone else log a find even if they cannot sign the log but has seen the cache, disability or not?.

Thanks

 

If just being in the vicinity was enough to claim a "find", then there wouldn't be much point to the game.

 

Not all caches are meant to be found by everyone. That's just the way it is.

 

My personal belief is that if we don't sign the log, we don't claim it as a find.

 

I've seen logbooks frozen in place. The CO said "go ahead and log it as found". We declined, preferring to return to the cache when it wasn't frozen, and signing the log.

 

If the cache had gone missing or was archived prior to our return...oh, well, dem's da breaks.

 

B.

[+Walts Hunting]

No signlog. No find

[+niraD]

Now I am questioning wether I can log a find if I am unable to get the cache in my hand to sign the log sheet or is just being able to spot the cache enough to record a log?

From the "How is the game played?" section of Geocaching 101: "7. Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location."

 

As others have indicated, the expectation is that you will retrieve the geocache, sign the log, and replace the geocache. If you don't sign the log, then the cache owner can delete your online Find. For many caches, retrieving and replacing the cache is a significant part of the intended challenge.

 

There can be exceptions, but they're usually related to the log being unsignable (e.g., soaking wet). The idea is that the finder could have signed the log, and did everything necessary to sign the log for that cache, but something out of his/her control prevented it.

 

Does anyone else log a find even if they cannot sign the log but has seen the cache, disability or not?.

The people I know who have physical limitations either avoid caches that they are unable to retrieve and replace, or they find other ways to retrieve and replace those caches (e.g., tools, assistance from others). More than once I have left, to return later with the appropriate tool so I could retrieve and replace the cache.

[+niraD]

You might find the thread Found It = Didn't Find It informative.

[+on4bam]

Hello, I found a cache today which was high up in a tree. Due to a disability I have, I was unable to reach the cache. I logged it on my phone that I had found it

 

Why? Would you log the ISS cache because you could see it from your garden as it flew overhead? There's a reason you need to sign the log.

 

Now I am questioning wether I can log a find if I am unable to get the cache in my hand to sign the log sheet or is just being able to spot the cache enough to record a log? Does anyone else log a find even if they cannot sign the log but has seen the cache, disability or not?.

 

I don't climb trees, I don't scuba dive but your logic says I can log this sort of caches if I'm near them? Don't think so. There are millions of caches out there, it's no use wanting to log the ones you can't get to or can't solve. There are ignore lists for that, you won't even know they are there.

Any cache I'm not comfortable with finding I'll just ignore, it's not about the numbers anyway.

[+SageTracey]

Kudos to the OP for coming here and asking the question. It may not be the answer he wanted to hear but now he has a better understanding of the game.

[cezanne]

or wait til I am with someone who can climb a tree.

 

There is of course nothing in the guidelines that forbids such logs, but they would not make me happy. I have signed the log book of some caches but I they cannot reach the cache myself, I do not log a find and even if only 1 m is missing.

 

It's not a missed found it log (it's not worth anything) that makes me sad in some cases - it's only the fact that I could not manage what almost all cachers around can manage.

[+CV Kurt]

I would be nice if each cache's attributes reflected accessibility issues... I would hope that all COs would welcome suggestions here. YMMV.

[Pup Patrol]

I would be nice if each cache's attributes reflected accessibility issues...I would hope that all COs would welcome suggestions here. YMMV.

 

The OP did not mention the D/T rating for the cache, and did not mention whether there was any indication regarding accessibility in the cache description or previous logs. Or even just how high in the tree the cache is located.

 

So we have no idea of what information is available to determine accessibility issues.

 

One hopes that the cache has the appropriate D/T ratings at least.

 

Help Center → Hiding a Geocache → Review Process: Hiding a Geocache

1.15. Ratings for Difficulty and Terrain (D/T)

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=82

 

B.

[+cerberus1]

I would be nice if each cache's attributes reflected accessibility issues...I would hope that all COs would welcome suggestions here. YMMV.

 

The OP did not mention the D/T rating for the cache, and did not mention whether there was any indication regarding accessibility in the cache description or previous logs. Or even just how high in the tree the cache is located.

 

So we have no idea of what information is available to determine accessibility issues.

 

One hopes that the cache has the appropriate D/T ratings at least.

 

Help Center → Hiding a Geocache → Review Process: Hiding a Geocache

1.15. Ratings for Difficulty and Terrain (D/T)

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=82

 

B.

+1

Even with no attributes, a caches D/T ratings, the cache page, and even the map might normally reflect how one would access it.

The issue doesn't seem to be COs not using proper D/T ratings or attributes, but a person not knowing (since '10...) that you need to sign the log to claim a find, one of the basics in Geocaching 101.

[+Manville Possum]

I don't find it unfair, it's just part of the game rules that you have to sign the log.

[+cerberus1]

Kudos to the OP for coming here and asking the question. It may not be the answer he wanted to hear but now he has a better understanding of the game.

+1

[+justintim1999]

Can you describe what the cache looked like and how it was hidden?

[+on4bam]

Can you describe what the cache looked like and how it was hidden?

 

Spoiler alert!!

[+justintim1999]

Can you describe what the cache looked like and how it was hidden?

 

Spoiler alert!!

 

You think that anyone who will be searching for this particular cache is going to read this? Ok, If I asked you what the container looked like and how it was hidden could you tell me? Yes or No.

[+Manville Possum]

Can you describe what the cache looked like and how it was hidden?

 

Spoiler alert!!

 

You think that anyone who will be searching for this particular cache is going to read this? Ok, If I asked you what the container looked like and how it was hidden could you tell me? Yes or No.

 

Yes. It looked like a geocache in a tree.

[+on4bam]

You think that anyone who will be searching for this particular cache is going to read this? Ok, If I asked you what the container looked like and how it was hidden could you tell me? Yes or No.

 

I can't imagine you're serious about this... :lol: (2 emoticons just in case you missed this one too)

[+geocat_]

I work with people with disabilities and have actually used Geocaching to promote wellness as it has so much to offer to everyone! I sympathize with your message in your original post. As others have said, I believe you should get to the container and sign the log on every cache in order to count your find. That being said, I think most of us are "disabled" in a sense. I am not great at high tree climbs myself while others scurry up them without fear or difficulty. So by comparison, I am "disabled."

 

Don't sweat it. The high terrain caches are not for everyone. As others have suggested, you might be able to retrieve some that are out of reach using a tool or apparatus of some sort. I have cached with people in wheelchairs, with a man using a cane, a guy in a power chair, people with brain injuries, a girl with Lofstrand crutches, and a man who is blind. The trick is to find caches within your means. And that trick applies to all of us!

[+WarNinjas]

Sorry to hear about your situation. Really sucks! We place many caches. Some we place so cachers with disabilities can find them and then we place extreme ones for cachers that want a challenge. We make some puzzles for members who want a mental challenge.

I would suggest looking for ones you can get to. There are many out there that don't involve climbing a tree or taking a kayak. Just enjoy the adventure and finding new places. If you can't get to one go to the next one.

[+justintim1999]

You think that anyone who will be searching for this particular cache is going to read this? Ok, If I asked you what the container looked like and how it was hidden could you tell me? Yes or No.

 

I can't imagine you're serious about this... :lol: (2 emoticons just in case you missed this one too)

 

Point was that if it had been my cache and he could describe it and tell me how it was hidden I'd let him keep it as find. Hell I'd even go out there and help him retrieve so he could sign it if that would make the geocaching public happy. I'm having a hard time believing that people would begrudge a person with a physical ability the opportunity to log a cache as found just because they couldn't retrieve the log and sign it. In this case I really don't care what the "rules" say about what a "legitimate" find is. Come on people have we really fallen that far? If this person truly has a disability and legitimately went out there and found this cache but couldn't retrieve it because of his/her disability you think no find, too bad for you, better luck next time. It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You didn't retrieve the cache, You didn't sign the log, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir! WRONG!.

 

Without quoting the rules of the game give me one GOOD reason why this person should not be able to log a cache they actually found but couldn't retrieve, not because of there lack of mountain climbing skills or the fact that they were unwilling to crawl into a 3 foot culvert. Because they have a physical disability that prevents them from doing so. Golden rule people. How dose allowing this find hurt the game in any way?

[+justintim1999]

You think that anyone who will be searching for this particular cache is going to read this? Ok, If I asked you what the container looked like and how it was hidden could you tell me? Yes or No.

 

I can't imagine you're serious about this... :lol: (2 emoticons just in case you missed this one too)

 

I am serious about the subject not your comment. Thanks for the second emoticon, it took both to bring me off the edge.

[+kunarion]

if it had been my cache and he could describe it and tell me how it was hidden I'd let him keep it as find.

The Cache Owner has leeway to take circumstances into consideration. But if your cache is tough for people to access and you like them to always log a find, don't hook it at the top of a tree. For example.

 

The cache description should have enough info for the prospective finder to know in advance what to expect. In this case, it appears to be lacking. I've been to a couple of caches that seemed to be out of my reach, and although I went anyway (just to see what the deal is), I didn't expect it to be considered a “Find”, and the CO didn't either. Yet I could plainly see the container far, far away. Out of reach.

Edited August 1, 2015 by kunarion

[+justintim1999]

if it had been my cache and he could describe it and tell me how it was hidden I'd let him keep it as find.

The Cache Owner has leeway to take circumstances into consideration. But if your cache is tough for people to access and you like them to always log a find, don't hook it at the top of a tree. For example.

 

The cache description should have enough info for the prospective finder to know in advance what to expect. In this case, it appears to be lacking. I've been to a couple of caches that seemed to be out of my reach, and although I went anyway (just to see what the deal is), I didn't expect it to be considered a “Find”, and the CO didn't either. Yet I could plainly see the container far, far away. Out of reach.

 

I don't think it's about the lack of information on the cache page as much as the idea behind asking a cacher with a disability to remove the find. I'm sure BenL982 would have loved to climb the tree and retrieve the cache. I'm not suggesting that any one who gets close to where they think the cache is should log a find. What I am saying is that if you found the cache and can see it but because of a physical disability you can't retrieve it the find should be allowed to stand. Not the rule just my opinion.

[+kunarion]

if it had been my cache and he could describe it and tell me how it was hidden I'd let him keep it as find.

The Cache Owner has leeway to take circumstances into consideration. But if your cache is tough for people to access and you like them to always log a find, don't hook it at the top of a tree. For example.

 

The cache description should have enough info for the prospective finder to know in advance what to expect. In this case, it appears to be lacking. I've been to a couple of caches that seemed to be out of my reach, and although I went anyway (just to see what the deal is), I didn't expect it to be considered a “Find”, and the CO didn't either. Yet I could plainly see the container far, far away. Out of reach.

 

I don't think it's about the lack of information on the cache page as much as the idea behind asking a cacher with a disability to remove the find.

That's why I posted, to explain that.

Edited August 1, 2015 by kunarion

[+justintim1999]

if it had been my cache and he could describe it and tell me how it was hidden I'd let him keep it as find.

The Cache Owner has leeway to take circumstances into consideration. But if your cache is tough for people to access and you like them to always log a find, don't hook it at the top of a tree. For example.

 

The cache description should have enough info for the prospective finder to know in advance what to expect. In this case, it appears to be lacking. I've been to a couple of caches that seemed to be out of my reach, and although I went anyway (just to see what the deal is), I didn't expect it to be considered a “Find”, and the CO didn't either. Yet I could plainly see the container far, far away. Out of reach.

 

I don't think it's about the lack of information on the cache page as much as the idea behind asking a cacher with a disability to remove the find.

That's why I posted, to explain that.

 

So you think the cache owner was right in this situation?

[+kunarion]

So you think the cache owner was right in this situation?

The CO may opt to allow a find at his/her discretion, so that was not right or wrong. But a potential Finder must not expect a "Found It" log to remain, if he didn't sign the log. Part of the idea of Geocaching is to find it and sign it. There are other sites where you may simply arrive in the area and "count" it. In fact, if the OP would like the fun of simply going to a cache spot, he may make a Note log, or a DNF, or no log at all, all which I have done. Or bring a monkey-boy along for the find. I've brought one of those at times, they're very handy. But the cache page needs to mention the monkey-boy possibility, or some kind of info needs to be present on the page, or even this. Otherwise, you may be surprised upon arrival. "Ability" or not.

 

As a Cache Owner, I'm personally not all that strict about Finds. Go look at all the logs like "Found it, forgot my pen so I didn't sign it". So whatever the log, when it basically says, "Dude, just gimme the smilie!", trust me, it's right here, under the face palm:

 

Edited August 1, 2015 by kunarion

[+WarNinjas]

You think that anyone who will be searching for this particular cache is going to read this? Ok, If I asked you what the container looked like and how it was hidden could you tell me? Yes or No.

 

I can't imagine you're serious about this... :lol: (2 emoticons just in case you missed this one too)

 

Point was that if it had been my cache and he could describe it and tell me how it was hidden I'd let him keep it as find. Hell I'd even go out there and help him retrieve so he could sign it if that would make the geocaching public happy. I'm having a hard time believing that people would begrudge a person with a physical ability the opportunity to log a cache as found just because they couldn't retrieve the log and sign it. In this case I really don't care what the "rules" say about what a "legitimate" find is. Come on people have we really fallen that far? If this person truly has a disability and legitimately went out there and found this cache but couldn't retrieve it because of his/her disability you think no find, too bad for you, better luck next time. It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You didn't retrieve the cache, You didn't sign the log, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir! WRONG!.

 

Without quoting the rules of the game give me one GOOD reason why this person should not be able to log a cache they actually found but couldn't retrieve, not because of there lack of mountain climbing skills or the fact that they were unwilling to crawl into a 3 foot culvert. Because they have a physical disability that prevents them from doing so. Golden rule people. How dose allowing this find hurt the game in any way?

I would have let him log it as well.

[+justintim1999]

You think that anyone who will be searching for this particular cache is going to read this? Ok, If I asked you what the container looked like and how it was hidden could you tell me? Yes or No.

 

I can't imagine you're serious about this... :lol: (2 emoticons just in case you missed this one too)

 

Point was that if it had been my cache and he could describe it and tell me how it was hidden I'd let him keep it as find. Hell I'd even go out there and help him retrieve so he could sign it if that would make the geocaching public happy. I'm having a hard time believing that people would begrudge a person with a physical ability the opportunity to log a cache as found just because they couldn't retrieve the log and sign it. In this case I really don't care what the "rules" say about what a "legitimate" find is. Come on people have we really fallen that far? If this person truly has a disability and legitimately went out there and found this cache but couldn't retrieve it because of his/her disability you think no find, too bad for you, better luck next time. It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You didn't retrieve the cache, You didn't sign the log, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir! WRONG!.

 

Without quoting the rules of the game give me one GOOD reason why this person should not be able to log a cache they actually found but couldn't retrieve, not because of there lack of mountain climbing skills or the fact that they were unwilling to crawl into a 3 foot culvert. Because they have a physical disability that prevents them from doing so. Golden rule people. How dose allowing this find hurt the game in any way?

I would have let him log it as well.

 

Thank you for the short concise answer that is right to the point.

[+BruceS]

Closed at OP's request