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New Category Proposal: Fraternal Order of Eagles

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I've been toying with the idea of proposing a category for the Fraternal Order of Eagles (F.O.E.) which traces its beginnings to Seattle, WA (home of Groundspeak!). In my travels the past few years, I've come across some historic buildings that were/are home to F.O.E. My own hometown contains a building which at one time housed a F.O.E. chapter. Each chapter is known as an 'Aerie' (like a bird's nest) and are located throughout the U.S.A. and Canada. Although Aeries are limited to these two countries, I feel they are still a viable candidate for inclusion in the Waymarking community based off their history, fraternal mission and the fact that they founded Mother's Day in America! Other major accomplishments this organization has had over the years:

 

  • Served as driving force in founding Social Security Program
  • Helped end age-based job discrimination with the "Jobs After 40" Program
  • Distributed Ten Commandments monoliths
  • Fought to keep Ten Commandment monoliths in public places

 

The following text is taken off the F.O.E. website to describe its history:

 

The F.O.E. was founded in February, 1898 by six theatre owners gathered in a Seattle shipyard to discuss a musician's strike. After addressing the matter, they agreed to "bury the hatchet" and form "The Order of Good Things." As numbers grew, members selected the Bald Eagle as the official emblem and changed the name to "The Fraternal Order of Eagles." The women's auxiliary traces its roots to 1927.

 

F.O.E. membership exceeds 800,000, with more than 1,500 local Aeries in the U.S. and Canada. Women's auxiliaries total more than 1,300. Members are recruited by other members and must be sponsored by two members before the membership process begins.

 

Motto: People Helping People

 

The 1,500 Aeries don't include the former Aeries that existed in towns and cities across America and Canada. My category proposal would also include former and current Aeries and would follow the same format and style as other current Meeting Houses (Odd Fellow Lodges, Masonic Temples, Grange Halls, Elks Lodges, Legion Posts and Branches, VFW Posts, Moose Lodges and Centers, Knights of Pythias, AMVETS and Knights of Columbus categories).

 

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

:grin:

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Yes, we have found several of these and often wondered why NO Category.

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I like People Helping People. :)

See there is a good area locator too with nearly 1,600 locations to start with.

 

My category proposal would also include former and current Aeries and would follow the same format and style as other current Meeting Houses (Odd Fellow Lodges, Masonic Temples, Grange Halls, Elks Lodges, Legion Posts and Branches, VFW Posts, Moose Lodges and Centers, Knights of Pythias, AMVETS and Knights of Columbus categories).

 

So the Category would be a combination of several fraternal and service organizations.

Then the Category name Fraternal Order of Eagles is incorrect.

The Category would then have a more comprehensive name. Then we have a more global one.

 

I don't know if there is an International Category for fraternal and service organizations on WM.

See there is a Lions Clubs International Markers

Grtz John.

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His the Fraternal Order of Eagles spread globally or can be found only in North America?

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Throughout the U.S.A. and Canada.

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As I said in my first post, the only drawback to this potential category is the fact that it's centralized to the U.S.A. and Canada. But I don't think that this should be a deterrent for moving forward. There are many existing categories that are centralized to one part of the world (a couple of categories only available in Europe were approved in the past couple of months). The Fraternal Order of Eagles (F.O.E.) has a long history, a great mission and have over 1,500 current chapters, not including hundreds former chapters that are found in many historic buildings around North America.

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Okay. It was a translation problem on this side. :lol:

Now I read your first post again and with your explanation I understand.

It reads "follow the same format and style as....."

Not every Waymarker has English as mother tongue, sorry. :D

Edited by dreamhummie
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I'd support it. I've already located at least a couple of FoE halls in my normal Waymarking area, with possibly a couple of others just a bit farther away. I think the only potential stumbling block would be convincing Waymarkers outside of North America to approve it. It isn't "global" in the literal sense, but I think it fits into the global criterion by not being limited to a small geographic area (ie. a city, county, state, etc.).

 

Side note: Is the text of the 4 criteria written down anywhere other than the page during a PR? I can't find them right now. If not, I'll make a point of copying them and putting them here in the forums and/or on my website.

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I think the only potential stumbling block would be convincing Waymarkers outside of North America to approve it.

 

You're absolutely right The A-Team, it would be indeed a problem.

We also want too only Dutch Officers in our Category Dutch National Monuments because of the good Reviewing the Waymark.

As I said it was a translation problem on my side. :D

Go for it guys.

Grtz John.

Edited by dreamhummie
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It looks good to me, but there's one part that I'm on the fence about:

...to locate any and all current and former aeries (chapters) across the United States and Canada...

While all aeries are currently only in the United States and Canada, this won't necessarily always be so. If this changes and new aeries are established in other countries, I'm concerned that the description may not get updated. This already occurred with the Target Stores category, which wasn't updated when Target expanded to Canada, and it may have happened with other categories. On the one hand, my gut feeling is to not state the locations so as to prevent such potential inaccuracies (there are a lot of category descriptions that desperately need to be updated), but on the other hand, it does make it more clear to visitors where they're located and there doesn't currently appear to be any evidence of expansion to other countries. I guess I'm fine with it either way, but I just wanted to bring it up as a potential talking point.

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We saw a FOE graveyard in Fort Worth yesterday -- If this category goes, I have a WM to submit in it :)

 

I hope such remnants of now-defunct chapters will be acceptable.

Edited by Benchmark Blasterz
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What happened to this category proposal? :blink:

 

We still think this is a good idea. Lets bring it back to life.

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What happened to this category proposal? :blink:

 

We still think this is a good idea. Lets bring it back to life.

I think it looks ready to go, but it would be best to wait until the current website problems are sorted out before trying any PRs. You wouldn't want to send it to PR and then find out the "Yea" option is broken. :laughing:

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Why not extend the category to all fraternal organisation world-wide. I searched for "fraternal organisations anywhere in Australia" & found the United Grand Chapter of Australia, Order of the Eastern Star, an organisation with similar aims to that of the Order of Eagles. There are chapters in each state. Website:

http://oesaustralia.org.au/

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Just got back into the Forums after the many fiascoes with the Waymarking site down for many days at a time.

 

What Tuena has proposed as a 'catch-all' category for all Fraternal organizations worldwide is not a bad idea. In this manner, there would be no need to continue adding ever-more categories within the Meeting Houses subtitle when one 'final' category could include the remaining organizations that exist in countries across the globe. As more fraternal organizations are discovered, they can be added to the category over time.

 

Thoughts?

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Just got back into the Forums after the many fiascoes with the Waymarking site down for many days at a time.

 

What Tuena has proposed as a 'catch-all' category for all Fraternal organizations worldwide is not a bad idea. In this manner, there would be no need to continue adding ever-more categories within the Meeting Houses subtitle when one 'final' category could include the remaining organizations that exist in countries across the globe. As more fraternal organizations are discovered, they can be added to the category over time.

 

Thoughts?

 

Sounds a little too wide of a category to me when you add all frat organizations worldwide. A fly by night 2 chapter fraternal organization would qualify for instance. And as little as I like fast food categories it would be like having just one category for the entire lot of all of them. Like wise with post offices, just one category world wide. But we have a track record of not doing either. Post offices go by country, fast food by chain. We occasionally make a catch all category but they don't have good track records in my humble opinion.

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As I said in my first post, the only drawback to this potential category is the fact that it's centralized to the U.S.A. and Canada.

 

Then you know what my personal vote will be :-)

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As I said in my first post, the only drawback to this potential category is the fact that it's centralized to the U.S.A. and Canada.

 

Then you know what my personal vote would be :-)

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As I said in my first post, the only drawback to this potential category is the fact that it's centralized to the U.S.A. and Canada.

 

Then you know what my personal vote would be :-)

 

That is unfortunate to read those words from you, Torgut, since the Fraternal Order of Eagles organization satisfies every other category criteria. Like I've mentioned in previous forum posts, there are MANY current Waymarking categories that exist strictly in the USA and yet contribute much to the Waymarking community in terms of historical significance, personal education mission values. Could the Fraternal Order of Eagles spread their wings farther than North America? Perhaps someday they will!

 

The purpose of my original intent to create this category is the fact that many of these F.O.E. lodges are/were in very historical buildings and I've come across a few F.O.E. signs hanging in front of these buildings that made me want to learn about their backgrounds and history.

 

Just because you live in one part of the world and may not ever visit a Waymarking category in another part of the world doesn't mean a potential category shouldn't exist.

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Just got back into the Forums after the many fiascoes with the Waymarking site down for many days at a time.

 

What Tuena has proposed as a 'catch-all' category for all Fraternal organizations worldwide is not a bad idea. In this manner, there would be no need to continue adding ever-more categories within the Meeting Houses subtitle when one 'final' category could include the remaining organizations that exist in countries across the globe. As more fraternal organizations are discovered, they can be added to the category over time.

 

Thoughts?

 

Sounds a little too wide of a category to me when you add all frat organizations worldwide. A fly by night 2 chapter fraternal organization would qualify for instance. And as little as I like fast food categories it would be like having just one category for the entire lot of all of them. Like wise with post offices, just one category world wide. But we have a track record of not doing either. Post offices go by country, fast food by chain. We occasionally make a catch all category but they don't have good track records in my humble opinion.

 

Fraternal is not a commonly used word in Australia so I didn't realize, until I just checked, there were so many such organisations world wide.

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1. Great idea for a new category that fits in with other similar ones.

 

2. Omnibus, catch-all categories are generally a bad idea. Each category should have a specific focus and stand on its own merits without reference to other categories. I think this is especially true where there are some existing categories. So, some get their own category and others just get lumped together in some "master" category? To define a category as, "Everything but . . . . " is usually not a very logical way to develop a category. I know we have a crazy quilt already with categories that intersect in some bizarre ways, but when we can avoid this, I think we should.

 

Let's take an example - bridges. I see categories for at least twelves specific type of bridges. I find this a lot more interesting than having just ONE category for ALL bridges. Then, let's say after the sixth bridge category was created someone said, "Let's just combine all remaining types of bridges into one big category?" The other six would not exist -- a great loss in my estimation. Even with that, not ALL bridges have a category. Some just aren't remarkable enough to deserve a waymark, unless someone comes up with another clearly defined category.

 

3. Global criterion. I have written about this before, but it is still misunderstood. The intent is not to ARBITRARILY limit a category to a geographical area. In it's simplest form it would be something like, "US waterfalls." That is obvious as a restrictive category. Sometimes this is justified, however, such as historic markers or benchmarks where geographic restrictions make sense. Sometimes it is easy to broaden a category, however. One example is Auto Clubs. It could be written as just AAA Clubs, a largely U.S. organization, but it was easy to expand this to include similar travel clubs in other world areas. Just because a certain category topic is confined largely to one country or area is NOT a reason for its failing the global criterion.

 

In this case, FOE may not be as international as the Rotary Club or Lions Club does not mean it is not a viable category.

 

I'd love to see this one go forward.

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OK, I've finally found a little time to tweak the Fraternal Order of Eagles category description and feel it's ready for an Officer vote. I invite anyone to look at the category and let me know if I'm forgetting something or need to add/delete something.

 

Link to the category: Fraternal Order of Eagles

 

Thanks!

 

Doug

thebeav69

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OK, I've finally found a little time to tweak the Fraternal Order of Eagles category description and feel it's ready for an Officer vote. I invite anyone to look at the category and let me know if I'm forgetting something or need to add/delete something.

 

Had a look, made two tiny little grammatical edits. It looks just fine. Well done, well presented. Send 'er off!!!

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Had a look, made two tiny little grammatical edits.

Same here. I also capitalized "Aerie" throughout, because the FOE seems to typically use the capitalized form. Otherwise, I think it looks good and I'd support moving forward!

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I generally vote based on my interpretation of the Global criterion which differs to that of Silverquill's. Some categories that aren't global have received my support based on practicalities. Well written & no doubt of interest to those in North America. If approved we could end up with dozens of similar categories as opposed to just one. I wont be rushing to set up a category for the one I found in Australia or for others that have chapters here as many are simply based in members' homes.

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I generally vote based on my interpretation of the Global criterion which differs to that of Silverquill's. Some categories that aren't global have received my support based on practicalities. Well written & no doubt of interest to those in North America. If approved we could end up with dozens of similar categories as opposed to just one. I wont be rushing to set up a category for the one I found in Australia or for others that have chapters here as many are simply based in members' homes.

It isn't clear if you'd vote for or against the proposed category.

 

If you'd be against it, can you explain why? To be clear, when the US and Canada is mentioned in the category description, it's only because those are currently the only countries that have FOE Aeries. It isn't an arbitrary restriction to just those two countries. If FOE expanded to other countries, they'd be happily included in the category as well. Would it make a difference if we took out that part and didn't mention the two countries?

 

I think your comment about the Global criterion highlights a major issue that needs to be dealt with by the Waymarking community. There are similar issues with the geocaching guidelines: everyone has their own interpretation, and the original spirit of the guideline/criterion has been lost to history. We need to collectively determine what the intent of the criteria is so category creators can ensure the category meets those criteria. If everyone is using their own personal criteria, it becomes nearly impossible to satisfy those countless different interpretations.

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I look at the here & now. You seem to believe that all categories have the potential to be global as their subject could become available in other countries. What's the chance of the FOE setting up a chapter in Australia or anywhere else outside North America when they haven't already done so. Then of course we have another criterion which if FOE set up an order in Australia wouldn't be met. A chapter in Sydney & one in Melbourne as the two largest cities perhaps.

 

It doesn't matter that the USA & Canada were mentioned. I always look to see whether the proposal is Global. Available in 2 countries is not Global. That's how I interpret Global. Silverquill's point 3 infers the opposite as far as I can understand. A category can be global even if it its restricted to one country. Doesn't make sense.

 

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I'm looking forward to seeing this go to PR if only so I can see the exact wording of the criteria again. This time I'll be saving the text so we can refer to it in the future (and debate them endlessly in the forums!).

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I'm looking forward to seeing this go to PR if only so I can see the exact wording of the criteria again. This time I'll be saving the text so we can refer to it in the future (and debate them endlessly in the forums!).

I have recently copied the text. I post it to the General Waymarking Topics, so it will not be buried in this thread after a while. Category Criteria

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To be clear, when the US and Canada is mentioned in the category description, it's only because those are currently the only countries that have FOE Aeries. It isn't an arbitrary restriction to just those two countries.

In my opinion, this is not a smart wording at all. Taken literally, the category text IS an arbitrary restriction, even when the sum of the excluded locations is zero. If you plan to accept new locations in other countries, then you don't have to mention the two countries now, and don't have to modify the category description later (which will not happen anyway in my experience).

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Thanks to all who helped contribute to this category. It's now in PEER REVIEW, so please vote!

 

:)

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Global - The directory has the potential for worldwide appeal, but only if the categories are not too restricted by region. Consider whether people from all over the world will be able to contribute to this category. We can afford to be somewhat flexible with the application of this guideline for truly outstanding categories.

 

Prevalence - How many potential waymarks exist throughout the world? Too few and the category may be of little or no interest to anyone. Too many and you may end up with a category full of mundane, everyday locations.

 

Interesting or Informative - In general, good categories can be classified in one of two ways. Interesting: Can you imagine yourself sifting through the gallery for compelling and entertaining images, or making a special trip to visit a waymark in this category? Informative: On the flipside, you may not exclaim "Wow!", but perhaps you or someone else might find the waymarks in this category useful in some way. These waymarks can aid in accomplishing an everyday task more efficiently, or serve to gather enlightening information about a commercial location which may or may not be available from traditional sources.

 

Redundant - Could this category be included as a variable in an existing category? For instance, let's say this new category is called "Blue Lighthouses". But, wait! There may already be a "Lighthouses category". Would it make more sense to add a variable for different colors in the "Lighthouses" details?

 

I wanted to post the Peer Review criteria text in this thread because so many ask about it before a category goes to Peer Review.

 

In regards to the Global objective it states: We can afford to be somewhat flexible with the application of this guideline for truly outstanding categories. I believe this category to be outstanding in terms of historical appreciation, its positive values and its mission statement. It's unfortunate there are a few people in the Waymarking community that are unable to appreciate these aspects and instead seem to be limited in their vision and too narrow-sighted to appreciate a potentially good category.. i.e., "It's hard to see the forest when you're focused on the trees."

Edited by thebeav69
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Global - The directory has the potential for worldwide appeal, but only if the categories are not too restricted by region. Consider whether people from all over the world will be able to contribute to this category. We can afford to be somewhat flexible with the application of this guideline for truly outstanding categories.

 

Prevalence - How many potential waymarks exist throughout the world? Too few and the category may be of little or no interest to anyone. Too many and you may end up with a category full of mundane, everyday locations.

 

Interesting or Informative - In general, good categories can be classified in one of two ways. Interesting: Can you imagine yourself sifting through the gallery for compelling and entertaining images, or making a special trip to visit a waymark in this category? Informative: On the flipside, you may not exclaim "Wow!", but perhaps you or someone else might find the waymarks in this category useful in some way. These waymarks can aid in accomplishing an everyday task more efficiently, or serve to gather enlightening information about a commercial location which may or may not be available from traditional sources.

 

Redundant - Could this category be included as a variable in an existing category? For instance, let's say this new category is called "Blue Lighthouses". But, wait! There may already be a "Lighthouses category". Would it make more sense to add a variable for different colors in the "Lighthouses" details?

 

I wanted to post the Peer Review criteria text in this thread because so many ask about it before a category goes to Peer Review.

 

In regards to the Global objective it states: We can afford to be somewhat flexible with the application of this guideline for truly outstanding categories. I believe this category to be outstanding in terms of historical appreciation, its positive values and its mission statement. It's unfortunate there are a few people in the Waymarking community that are unable to appreciate these aspects and instead seem to be limited in their vision and too narrow-sighted to appreciate a potentially good category.. i.e., "It's hard to see the forest when you're focused on the trees."

I personally do agree with Silverquill's interpretation on the Global criterion. So I think this category is viable. But you have been focused so much on your specific tree, that you don't realize that there is no way to call Meeting Houses category #13 truly outstanding. It's viable, but not at all truly outstanding.

 

From this perspective any Nay vote is completely justified by the Groundspeak guidelines, even more than the Yea votes. Calling different opinions limited or narrow-minded does not make go away the facts.

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I personally do agree with Silverquill's interpretation on the Global criterion. So I think this category is viable. But you have been focused so much on your specific tree, that you don't realize that there is no way to call Meeting Houses category #13 truly outstanding. It's viable, but not at all truly outstanding.From this perspective any Nay vote is completely justified by the Groundspeak guidelines, even more than the Yea votes. Calling different opinions limited or narrow-minded does not make go away the facts.

 

Good job for still voting Yea even if halfheartedly.

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Global - The directory has the potential for worldwide appeal, but only if the categories are not too restricted by region. Consider whether people from all over the world will be able to contribute to this category. We can afford to be somewhat flexible with the application of this guideline for truly outstanding categories.

 

Prevalence - How many potential waymarks exist throughout the world? Too few and the category may be of little or no interest to anyone. Too many and you may end up with a category full of mundane, everyday locations.

 

Interesting or Informative - In general, good categories can be classified in one of two ways. Interesting: Can you imagine yourself sifting through the gallery for compelling and entertaining images, or making a special trip to visit a waymark in this category? Informative: On the flipside, you may not exclaim "Wow!", but perhaps you or someone else might find the waymarks in this category useful in some way. These waymarks can aid in accomplishing an everyday task more efficiently, or serve to gather enlightening information about a commercial location which may or may not be available from traditional sources.

 

Redundant - Could this category be included as a variable in an existing category? For instance, let's say this new category is called "Blue Lighthouses". But, wait! There may already be a "Lighthouses category". Would it make more sense to add a variable for different colors in the "Lighthouses" details?

 

I wanted to post the Peer Review criteria text in this thread because so many ask about it before a category goes to Peer Review.

 

In regards to the Global objective it states: We can afford to be somewhat flexible with the application of this guideline for truly outstanding categories. I believe this category to be outstanding in terms of historical appreciation, its positive values and its mission statement. It's unfortunate there are a few people in the Waymarking community that are unable to appreciate these aspects and instead seem to be limited in their vision and too narrow-sighted to appreciate a potentially good category.. i.e., "It's hard to see the forest when you're focused on the trees."

 

So according to you I don't have the right to an opinion & should just blindly accept whatever comes along. My opinion is that your proposal is not outstanding, is not global & doesn't meet the prevalence criterion.

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Since there is a running commentary in Peer Review directed at those who consider the proposal doesn't meet the Global criterion I think it best that I address them as they appear.

 

yosam

 

 

…….... Interesting the Europeans disapprove because it is not "Global" yet demand small pockets of their county only categories be approved.

 

 

Up until this point there had been three denials, two of which were from waymarkers who live in New Zealand & Australia, both of which are located in the Southern Hemisphere.

dreamhummie

 

 

For those who said its not global: How many categories do you have already found in your own country that are global ????

 

 

I have found 291 categories & four could be seen as Australian only purely because they are headed ‘Australian or Australia’. Other countries have Trigs, Historical Markers, Benchmarks & Post Offices so really all my finds are global.

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Yay! The F.O.E. category was approved and there have already been a half-dozen submissions approved.

 

Feel free to submit any you come across! :lol:

 

~thebeav69

Edited by thebeav69
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