Is there any market for cheap preforms?

[rodke]

Howdy all!

 

I have been geocaching for a little over two years now in central Texas (geocaching.com login: rodke) and just came across a preform the first time about a month ago while at our local corporate challenge 5K. I was impressed with how durable the container was and realized that it had lots of potential. I cut the top off of several 2-liter bottles and sanded the plastic down to make my own super durable cache from the same soda bottle material, but that took me a lot of time to sand them down nicely.

 

So I went out looking for preforms and found that almost everywhere, they are $3+ each, although, some places you can get them for about a dollar with shipping if you want to purchase a bunch.

 

So I started looking to do a large import from a manufacturer, something like 5-10,000 units. If I did, I obviously don't need that many, but I could easily resell them for $1 each (maybe less) with shipping included, as long as someone purchased like ten or more. Shipping is my real wildcard, but I think I could just throw them into any envelope for shipping and they would be fine.

 

I don't have any idea which size would be most popular, and I obviously wouldn't be able to carry many sizes due to the bulk purchase.

 

Do you hiders out there think I'm nuts, or is this a need that I could fulfill? I am thinking that for a buck, you can get something a a little cheaper and bigger than a small bison tube, will last longer, and certainly doesn't have the o-ring problems that me and my girls seem to encounter everywhere when geocaching.

 

I have a buddy that could do a very simple ecommerce site and shopping cart, and would only accept paypal for payment. Literally, I'd have 1-2 products for sale and that's it.

 

Any good or bad, lay it on me. No one is going to hurt my feelings.

[+kunarion]

Be sure you know what you're getting. Preforms are shaped to produce a bottle in a factory, usually not so great for a Geocache, especially the big bottles.

 

But a scaled-up version of those 20-ounce soda bottle preforms might be pretty sweet. Another option would be to manufacture a roomy straight-sided Geocache bottle from an otherwise odd-shaped preform.

Edited September 26, 2013 by kunarion

[rodke]

Be sure you know what you're getting. Preforms are shaped to produce a bottle in a factory, usually not so great for a Geocache, especially the big bottles.

 

But a scaled-up version of those 20-ounce soda bottle preforms might be pretty sweet. Another option would be to manufacture a roomy straight-sided Geocache bottle from an otherwise odd-shaped preform.

 

I would be looking at the ones that are an inch across or smaller. Most of them seem to be a 28mm mouth.

 

Can you elaborate on your idea of a scaled up version of the 20-ounce preform? I have looked at preforms for 20-ounce, 1-liter and 2-liter bottles. Can you describe what would be ideal? The one I found here in Temple, TX had a normal soda bottle cap on it, but the body of the preform was probably only about 3/4" across (maybe 16-20mm), so the mouth and lid were a little bigger than the body.

 

What makes them not so good for a geocache? If I did this, I'd obviously like to get what works best for geocaching, which in my mind would be something where the body was the same size or smaller than the mouth and lid. I can't imagine fishing out a log that had unraveled in one that had a fat body. I don't think that they should be very long either, since getting the log out could be a bugger.

 

Thanks for any additional input you have!

[+kunarion]

Can you elaborate on your idea of a scaled up version of the 20-ounce preform? I have looked at preforms for 20-ounce, 1-liter and 2-liter bottles. Can you describe what would be ideal? The one I found here in Temple, TX had a normal soda bottle cap on it, but the body of the preform was probably only about 3/4" across (maybe 16-20mm), so the mouth and lid were a little bigger than the body.

 

What makes them not so good for a geocache? If I did this, I'd obviously like to get what works best for geocaching, which in my mind would be something where the body was the same size or smaller than the mouth and lid. I can't imagine fishing out a log that had unraveled in one that had a fat body. I don't think that they should be very long either, since getting the log out could be a bugger.

 

Thanks for any additional input you have!

A bottle as wide as the cap would be fine. Bigger bottles tend to have a preform no wider than the smaller preforms, so I don't know if that "bigger preform" would be an improvement. But I was vaguely imagining that they could be heated and formed specifically for Geocache containers.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

The two liter preforms (such as these from Steve Spangler Science) are GREAT cache containers.

 

I have dozens of them out in the real world, and I can't think of a single one that has failed. I have one on a paddle cache that is at times submerged that has stayed dry inside. I also had a full-on submerged cache (in 2+ feet of water) with no issues.

 

Also, as you can see from the link, they can be had for about $1 a piece when you buy a dozen or so.

 

I have also seen the 20oz preforms in the wild, and are great for stages of a multi.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

For logs, I cut strips of heavy paper/card-stock ~3/4" wide and just shorter than the inside length of the preform, and staple several strips together. I can usually get 5-10 strips inside. Using the heavy stock, and making them long makes for easy extraction from the tube.

[+kunarion]

For logs, I cut strips of heavy paper/card-stock ~3/4" wide and just shorter than the inside length of the preform, and staple several strips together. I can usually get 5-10 strips inside. Using the heavy stock, and making them long makes for easy extraction from the tube.

That's what I've done with some of my micros, and it is much nicer than rolling them up. Which some cachers do anyway with those log strips.

 

Soda bottles are designed to be opened a couple of times. So I've been a little leery of placing one. Glad to hear that they work. I'd suppose it's the cap that's most likely to fail (being cross-threaded or whatever), so if that happened, I'd "Have a Coke and a Performed Maintenance" ... There's no shortage of extra caps...

[+K13]

I have one of these out now. It performs splendidly. It was acquired as geolitter about a year ago, so I'm not sure how long it was in use prior to my CITO.

To the OP, you would have to get them right to be able to match the price of the ones in that Steve Spangler Science link. Keep us informed on your progress.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Shipping costs (which needs to include packaging costs, printing, and travel to the point of shipment, if required) will be the thing that will make it hard for you to beat existing suppliers. You need to really research that first, not guess.

I've done geocoin shipping for the FGA a couple of times - it's a serious cost on a coin, and it would be for this as well.

 

 

--

 

I've seen preforms in use, they seem to hold up well as far as staying dry. The SOP for logs around here is to staple a rolled up log to a straw, cut to fit, log a tad shorter than the length of the preform.

 

This makes extraction and rolling pretty easy. i assume that at some point, the staples fail.... but at some point, everything fails ;-)

[+SwineFlew]

If you want to resell them, ebay!!!

[+ras_oscar]

You can also make durable cache containers with the discarded soda bottle tops, by processing them like this:

 

http://centralohiogeocaching.org/wiki/index.php?title=How_to_make_a_%22pop_bottle%22_cache_container

 

I've done a few for fun. The advantage is you are repurposing something that would otherwise be discarded as waste. Materials cost is zero if you can find a reliabe source of empty soda bottles.

[+Fugads]

These are very common with cache hiders in my area, with one power trail exclusively using them. For the longest time, I didn't know they were called pre-forms and what their original function was. The only time I had seen them before geocaching was when getting liquid yeast for brewing . Once painted dark green, brown or black, they can be pretty tough to find when well placed in a bush. The cap is often the give-away, with paint seeming to flake off easier (or maybe it's just from people opening and closing them). They also make for good stages in a multi, using a clear pre-form and gluing the lid shut.

 

That said, they are not usually my favorite thing to find, but neither are bisons.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

You can also make durable cache containers with the discarded soda bottle tops, by processing them like this:

 

http://centralohiogeocaching.org/wiki/index.php?title=How_to_make_a_%22pop_bottle%22_cache_container

 

I've done a few for fun. The advantage is you are repurposing something that would otherwise be discarded as waste. Materials cost is zero if you can find a reliabe source of empty soda bottles.

 

But what's your time worth? When I can get a ready made container for $1, I can't see spending the time and effort to make a container.

[+Mudfrog]

The two liter preforms (such as these from Steve Spangler Science) are GREAT cache containers.

 

I have dozens of them out in the real world, and I can't think of a single one that has failed. I have one on a paddle cache that is at times submerged that has stayed dry inside. I also had a full-on submerged cache (in 2+ feet of water) with no issues.

 

Also, as you can see from the link, they can be had for about $1 a piece when you buy a dozen or so.

 

I have also seen the 20oz preforms in the wild, and are great for stages of a multi.

 

This is a coincidence as i had just did some searching for the best price yesterday. I ended up finding a site where buying a quantity of 30 would come out to a drive out price of about .85 cents a piece.

 

As others have stated, they can always be had for around a buck so i'm not sure it it would be something the OP would want to consider.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

The two liter preforms (such as these from Steve Spangler Science) are GREAT cache containers.

 

I have dozens of them out in the real world, and I can't think of a single one that has failed. I have one on a paddle cache that is at times submerged that has stayed dry inside. I also had a full-on submerged cache (in 2+ feet of water) with no issues.

 

Also, as you can see from the link, they can be had for about $1 a piece when you buy a dozen or so.

 

I have also seen the 20oz preforms in the wild, and are great for stages of a multi.

 

This is a coincidence as i had just did some searching for the best price yesterday. I ended up finding a site where buying a quantity of 30 would come out to a drive out price of about .85 cents a piece.

 

As others have stated, they can always be had for around a buck so i'm not sure it it would be something the OP would want to consider.

 

I get mine from Steve Spangler also, usually 30 or 40. Its hard to believe their prices could be undercut enough to make the effort worthwhile.

The baby soda makes about the best micro there is.

[+J Grouchy]

I just wish I could go somewhere to pick them up instead of ordering online with the shipping costs and time involved.

[+SwineFlew]

They sell well at events. yes I see people do that. Right along with anno cans.

[Clan Riffster]

Any good or bad, lay it on me. No one is going to hurt my feelings.

I love 2 litre preforms. They are, as best I can tell, the most durable micro container out there.

But I think you'd end up stuck with a bunch of them.

[+SwineFlew]

Any good or bad, lay it on me. No one is going to hurt my feelings.

I love 2 litre preforms. They are, as best I can tell, the most durable micro container out there.

But I think you'd end up stuck with a bunch of them.

Yes, they are the best. When I was in Texas doing a power trail out in the middle of nowhere and there was tons of those out in the weather and the hot western Texas sun.(very dry and up to 110 days) They been out there for around three years and I was stock how well they hold up without breaking down. The lid can be an issue but replaceable if you have a bunch with you.

[+SwineFlew]

Anyone that buy them, Please, just please roll up the paper to a stick. They come out faster. Plus,dont over do it. I see some with too much paper with no stick and its very annoying!! Just put a wire on them with a double hook and paint it and you are all set to go. When the CO put a bunch of paper on a stick and drop it in, they come out faster and the paper will last longer. This is base on what I saw over the last three years of geocaching.

 

With a double hook, you can tie them to about anything small. In Texas, I see them tied to pokey bushes. Oh they are painful, but the cache last forever because people stay away form them. LOL. I see some dropped in a pipe fence post with the hook hanging over the edge. Those film can will break down like crazy in the Texas sun. Preforms all the way!!

[+WarNinjas]

It is a great idea for sure. The only problem I see is that I got a link from here where you can get 30 bottle preforms for about $20. I cant remember exactly but I think it worked out to about $.88 each. So buying in bulk to sell for $1 each might not work out great but on ebay they cost more.

[+kunarion]

It is a great idea for sure. The only problem I see is that I got a link from here where you can get 30 bottle preforms for about $20. I cant remember exactly but I think it worked out to about $.88 each. So buying in bulk to sell for $1 each might not work out great but on ebay they cost more.

I bought a box of 50ml centrifuge tubes for $60, free shipping. A box of five hundred! They're thin-walled, so they won't stop a bullet like the preforms will, but they're slightly wider, and have the same kind of cap seal. I've had a lot of fun inventing cache containers, but have only placed one. And I still have about four hundred and eighty to go, before I have to buy preforms or something.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

Anyone that buy them, Please, just please roll up the paper to a stick. They come out faster. Plus,dont over do it. I see some with too much paper with no stick and its very annoying!! Just put a wire on them with a double hook and paint it and you are all set to go. When the CO put a bunch of paper on a stick and drop it in, they come out faster and the paper will last longer. This is base on what I saw over the last three years of geocaching.

 

With a double hook, you can tie them to about anything small. In Texas, I see them tied to pokey bushes. Oh they are painful, but the cache last forever because people stay away form them. LOL. I see some dropped in a pipe fence post with the hook hanging over the edge. Those film can will break down like crazy in the Texas sun. Preforms all the way!!

 

For hanging, I use a bit of 14ga wire (stripped from a length of Romex) twisted around the neck below the "collar" and then formed into a loop. Allows me to hang it in hollow stumps, over tree branches, etc etc etc.

 

As for logs, see my post above - strips of paper staples together vice the rolled up. Even easier to extract - it just slips right our, and leaves room for a pencil.

[+JBnW]

It is a great idea for sure. The only problem I see is that I got a link from here where you can get 30 bottle preforms for about $20. I cant remember exactly but I think it worked out to about $.88 each. So buying in bulk to sell for $1 each might not work out great but on ebay they cost more.

Another source, Science Bob. 30 for $18.95, plus shipping.

[+Mudfrog]

Since we're throwing out links,, here's the cheapest i found so far.

 

Hometrainingtools.com

 

$17.95 for 30 tubes with caps

$ 5.95 shipping

$ 1.48 guestimate for tax

 

$25.38 total which comes out to $.85 per tube.

 

 

Be aware that i have not purchased from this website so i don't know how reliable they are or how their service is.

[+msrubble]

Similar item at American Science & Surplus. They're PET, 50 ml, and the seller says they're watertight. $3.50 for a package of 10; $5.95 shipping under $15. So $0.95 each if only buying one package. If you bought 3 packages, that works out to $0.55 each.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

From one of the previously linked to stores, these look super cool!

 

Edited September 27, 2013 by BBWolf+3Pigs

[Clan Riffster]

From one of the previously linked to stores, these look super cool!

 

Me like!

[+Don_J]

The two liter preforms (such as these from Steve Spangler Science) are GREAT cache containers.

 

I have dozens of them out in the real world, and I can't think of a single one that has failed. I have one on a paddle cache that is at times submerged that has stayed dry inside. I also had a full-on submerged cache (in 2+ feet of water) with no issues.

 

Also, as you can see from the link, they can be had for about $1 a piece when you buy a dozen or so.

 

I have also seen the 20oz preforms in the wild, and are great for stages of a multi.

 

This is a coincidence as i had just did some searching for the best price yesterday. I ended up finding a site where buying a quantity of 30 would come out to a drive out price of about .85 cents a piece.

 

As others have stated, they can always be had for around a buck so i'm not sure it it would be something the OP would want to consider.

 

If I read the OP correctly, he doesn't want to go into the preform business. He just couldn't find them for less than $3 each so he was wondering about buying them at bulk and selling off the excess at cost. With the links provided, he can forget that idea.

[+J Grouchy]

From one of the previously linked to stores, these look super cool!

 

 

 

"CLEAR PLASTIC JARS W/KNURLED CAP"

 

I love that word...knurled.

[rodke]

Wow, I can't believe that my post generated this many replies! Thanks for all of your input, advice and comments about various containers.

 

I've done some additional research since finding cheap preforms seems to be something that many of us have suffered with. For the preforms themselves, I can beat even the cheapest of prices listed above, even in small quantities (like 5-10 units). I think I could land in the I could land in the range of .50 each, plus shipping. So the highest I would be is around .85 each for a dozen with shipping, and down to .55 each for an order of 100.

 

Does this change the game, and alter anyone's response to the viability of my crazy idea?

[+msrubble]

I don't think this is viable. Listen to yourself, rodke. In your first post, you are unhappy at being unable to find preforms at a good price, unless you buy in bulk. What sellers want for a single unit is exorbitant (and then there's shipping to consider).

 

The price range you have talked yourself down to is not cheaper than other vendors already out there, and it would be a significant outlay for you to get going. You would have to differentiate yourself in some way, because you're not significantly better on price. Why should I buy 100 from you to get the lowest price, when I can get 30 for the same per-unit cost elsewhere? I thought the problem was having to buy in bulk to get a good deal.

 

It could be a little moneymaker on the side if you go to a lot of events, though, and selling is allowed. The preforms could be sold and bought at a lower price because no shipping is involved. The buyer gets a decent container, potentially at lower cost than online, and immediate gratification.

[+Trucker Lee]

So you buy in bulk. Some shipping methods have additional charges for home delivery, then you have to store them. How big is that box again? How much time do you want to spend counting out preforms into rip-proof postal bags and putting on postage? Some will always get lost, dropped under the freezer in the garage, caps missing, etc,, that is called shrinkage and comes out of your pocket.

 

The science source seems good for preforms.