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Very unsafe caches by Geocachers


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It's generally the seekers' responsibility to search safely...that includes looking out for wildlife, dangerous situations, etc.

You're never under any obligation to seek out a cache. I've called off a search from time to time when it didn't seem safe to proceed under the circumstances.

That being said, if there is a specific and known/likely hazard the cache hider should try to inform the seekers if at all possible so they are aware.

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Not living in the area, I can't comment from personal experience, but having looked at both cache pages, it doesn't look like they're placed in intentionally or inheirently dangerous places.

 

In the case of the Greenway cache, None of the other finders had complained about the snakes nearby, so it's likely that they're a new development. The cache owner should be informed, but in previous logs the most dangerous wildlife mentioned is slightly annoyed geese. Your log should be enough to put future visitors on their guard.

 

In the case of NJ Palisades, you took a fall, but no others have mentioned difficult or tricky terrain. Perhaps you picked a more difficult approach than those other people, but a big part of this sport is figuring out the best approach.

 

I hope you don't get turned off the game because of these mishaps. Think of them as learning experiences. You know to watch you footing, and both you and your son (hopefully) now know to keep well away from snakes, and to use sticks to poke into dark crevises.

 

-- Mitch

 

[This message was edited by Pneumatic on July 10, 2002 at 10:55 AM.]

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I'm with Pneumatic on this.

I'm glad you logged your difficulties with the snakes...keknj will be sure to avoid this one...

but as for tripping and hitting your head while walking through brush...I sympathize...but, ummm...Be aware of your surroundings, watch your step and know your abilites. Don't go anywhere you don't feel comfortable going, even if a thousand people went before you without incidient. For same reason I don't don't blindly follow my insane friends while skiing.

ApK

 

quote:
Originally posted by Pneumatic:

Not living in the area, I can't comment from personal experience, but having looked at both cache pages, it doesn't look like they're placed in intentially or inheirently dangerous places.

 

In the case of the Greenway cache, None of the other finders had complained about the snakes nearby, so it's likely that they're a new development. The cache owner should be informed, but in previous logs the most dangerous wildlife mentioned is slightly annoyed geese. Your log should be enough to put future visitors on their guard.

 

In the case of NJ Palisades, you took a fall, but no others have mentioned difficult or tricky terrain. Perhaps you picked a more difficult approach than those other people, but a big part of this sport is figuring out the best approach.

 

I hope you don't get turned off the game because of these mishaps. Think of them as learning experiences. You know to watch you footing, and both you and your son (hopefully) now know to keep well away from snakes, and to use sticks to poke into dark crevises.

 

-- Mitch


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quote:
User ACME geocachers has contacted you with the following message:

 

Saw the logs of your bad experience at those GWho caches.

 

I visited that Hackensack Greenway cache too, and was sure I saw some

queer looking snakes lurking in the reeds. I think they were engaging

in illegal activities I don't want my kid to see. icon_wink.gif


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I'm gonna side with the rest of the local cachers. The cache has been out awhile, things in nature change. I'm sure there was no nest of water snakes near the 1st cache when it was hidden in the winter. That being said, as populated as NJ is, whe still have our fair share of wildlife, some of it dangerous. You need to use common sense and care, and also accept that nature is not predictable.

Say we eliminate every cache where there was any possible chance of being attacked by a bear, a bobcat, a wolf (yes, we have those here in NJ), a raccoon, snake, rabid hamster, or a dog off his leash. Now lets drop those caches in high crime areas where the most dangerous animal is man.

Archive any cache close enough to a road where a car careening out of control might hit you.

Remove any cache that is more then 3 feet from a paved trail, so you dont trip over a rock or a log. Make sure there are no steps on that trail, so you dont trip.

Eliminate any that MIGHT have poison ivy grow near them in the next few years.

Now, if there are still any caches left, lets get rid of them, because you might get bit by a skeeter with West Nile, or a Lyme infected tick.

Geee, what a fun hobby Geocaching will be then, huh?

 

Illegitimus non carborundum!

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I am sad that you and your son got hurt. Being injured, especially while doing something that is supposed to be fun and relaxing, is the pits.

 

On the other hand, I have to agree with the cachers who say that it sounds like, in the case of the snakes, it was a new nest, and not something that the owner of the cache knew about when he/she placed the cache. The hole sounds like normal subsidence - I see those holes all over the Bay Area. A walking stick to poke the ground ahead of you might be a good idea.

 

In the end, though, if you are nervous about the cache hider's common sense in placing his/her caches, I'd say just skip caches by that person.

 

I have caches that I deliberately go after because they are hidden by particular cachers. If I found myself getting hurt by one person's caches in particular, I'd probably make a point of choosing other peoples' caches.

 

Again, I don't think the hider is at fault, but it sounds like their idea of a suitable location and yours are just incompatible.

 

Shannah

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Well, the cache with the snakes sounds like it is currently dangerous, and I'm not sure it's unreasonable to say it should be moved or temporarily disabled until the area isn't infested. The spot probably was perfectly fine when the cache was placed, and the other one doesn't sound inherently dangerous. I've waded through poison oak, scrambled across slimy creeks, and skidded down canyon slopes without thinking that the cache itself had any problems -- though I've occasionally thought that it deserved another difficulty star while trying to pick my way down a rocky slope without landing on my rear (well, it was listed as 1/1!).

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Every time you head out the door there is a risk. You are more likely to get hurt driving to the cache than actually hunting the cache.

 

A hiking stick is one of the best items you can take with you on caching adventures. It gives you extra stability when you walk. It allows you to lift branches and brush away leaves from areas you don't want to stick your hands into.

 

Also,

Carry a first aid kit.. just in case. Many people always have cell phones on them (your business), even into the woods. Although, they're of little use where I do a lot of my caching.

 

george

 

Remember: Half the people you meet are below average.

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It's summer. Snakes are out everywhere. They could just as easily be under your car as next to a cache. We all just need to watch where we're sticking our feet and hands. There will probably be a LOT of snakebites in Texas as the floodwaters are receding. What we do is (usually) an outdoor activity. There are risks with any outdoor activity. Keep in mind your GPSr points you in a straight line to the cache. That usually ain't the best route to go. Always search for the path of least resistance. As for the snake that wrapped itself around your son, are you SURE it was a water snake? That would be very unusual behavior for a water snake. They usually skee-daddle long before you're anywhere close. Sounds more like a king snake or other member of the constrictor family. Of course though, if you go to GWho's website, it looks like he may have had a little trouble placing the caches himself! icon_wink.gif

 

Ever notice everybody is willing to give THEIR 2 cents worth but only offer a penny for YOUR thoughts?

 

[This message was edited by pater47 on July 09, 2002 at 04:11 PM.]

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I have done many stupid things while looking for caches. I have learned from each one, and I don't repeat mistakes more then a couple of times.

 

But I never blame the cache owner for my own injuries. I saw in advance what I was going into and then made the incorrect decision to plod on.

 

One of the first lessons of geocaching is to get rid of "cache fever". That feeling as you get close to lose sight of everthing else except getting there. Even if you don't and decide that it is too dangerous, you have a interesting log to write.

 

Now I just need to take my own advice about the "cache fever" thing... icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Dan

 

A = A

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overcoming the challenges is what geocaching is all about. You don't know what's going to be around the cache so you should just be careful. Last year I got poison ivy 3 times. I didn't blame the person that placed the cache. I still need to learn what that crap looks like though, I haven't learned, but have been lucky this year. Or I've gotten an immunity to it.

I hope I don't run into any snakes either when I go out caching. I like to try and catch them and then I think whether or not they are poisonous.

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OK,

 

You guys are just asking for it (funniness, that is...)

 

==============================================

Out here in Okrahoma, snakes is just part of the fun! "Hell, bring the little pards down here. We got plenty of snakes and lizards for them to play with. There's no problem with that at all." [My apologies to Michael McDowell, Warren Skaaren, & Larry Wilson.]

 

Since we ain't got no stinkin' mountains (like Colorodeo), and we ain't got no stinkin' deserts (like Arizon-eye-eh), and we ain't got no stinkin' ocean shore (like Floride-eh), and we ain't got no stinkin' Skyskrapers (like New Yark), and since we don't "paahk da kaar" (like in Joisey), and since we ain't got no stinkin' orange groves (like them thar Caleyforn-eye-ahuns do), and since we put "R"s in our wash (as in "Warrrrsh the Supper dishes"; shoot-fire, snakes is about the only stinkin' thing I got to make 5/5 caches out of!

 

Oh yeah, I burrey it in a toxic wast contamination site (we got lots of that!) and then I plant a few land mines, and surround it with electrified barbed-warrr... Heck-fire, I always puts the "Don't Dig HEAYARRR!" sign (that's to throw them Texans off!) right smack dab plumb on it! But, without that sack o' Diamond Back rattlers sittin' squar on top of the burial mound (which is where in tarnations the cache is, dontcha know), shoot, the kiddies 'ud just up and skeddadel clean off with the cache.

 

Be a derned shame too, them thar cigar boxes (for the cache container) is gittin' powerful hard to come by. And lands sakes, you just cain't find fresh scorpions, spiders and slugs to put in one as trinkets hardly nowheres anymores! (Oh sure, I puts in some cigarettes and charrin' 'backey fer the kiddies, dontcha know.)

 

So, ya'll come on down to Okrahoma, and we'll have a couple six-paks and some crawdad pie and show ya'lls what real geocachin' is spossed to be like!

 

Yeeeeee-hhaaaawwwwwwww!!

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

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quote:
Originally posted by unclerojelio:

For someone from OK, majicman is very well spoken! A real fart smeller! icon_biggrin.gif (snip)


 

Keep taunting me with compliments and I'll send you to my home website to read some of the books I have written (sorry, I'm from Okrahoma - I meant - writ...)

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

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quote:
Originally posted by majicman:

Keep taunting me with compliments and I'll send you to my home website to read some of the books I have written (sorry, I'm from Okrahoma - I meant - writ...)


 

Books? Y'all got books in OK? Will wonders never cease?

 

icon_biggrin.gif

 

... Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--

I took the one less traveled by, ...

 

unclerojelio

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quote:
Originally posted by unclerojelio:

Books? Y'all got books in OK? Will wonders never cease? icon_biggrin.gif


 

I hope to spit in yer messkit, we does!

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

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This topic has come up before. Believe it or not there is a significant number of geocachers out there who think that it the cache hider's responsibility to ensure the safety of the cache seeker. I don't agree with that position. If you get hurt hunting a cache, sorry. It's your fault.

 

"There's no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently."

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quote:
Originally posted by Web-ling:

If snakes and holes make a cache too dangerous, then 95% of the caches in Texas should be archived. I should also probably stay out of my backyard.


 

Ooohh, snakes and holes... now that's a pictorial opportunity if'n I ever seed one! Leave it to one of them thar' dad-blasted Texicans...

 

(Oh, holes in the ground! I git it now!!)

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

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I wish to express my deep and heart-felt appreciation to all of those recent posters whom have assisted me in completely dragging this thread off on a 87 degree tangent.

 

It does my old heart good to smell what ya'll is currently steppin' in!

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

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quote:
Originally posted by majicman:

I wish to express my deep and heart-felt appreciation to all of those recent posters whom have assisted me in completely dragging this thread off on a 87 degree tangent.

 

It does my old heart good to smell what ya'll is currently steppin' in!

 

--majicman


 

And let me express MY appreciation to all of those who, while on the topic, expressed support for the position of individual responsibility! That not one of us said "These dangerous caches should be archived, outlawed, surrounded in warning tape, with large punative and compensatory awards going to the victims" makes me proud to be a member of this community!

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quote:
Originally posted by ApK: And let me express MY appreciation to all of those who, while on the topic, (snip)

 

What does that mean, "on the topic"? That's a concept that I just don't seem to grasp! hehe icon_biggrin.gificon_wink.gif

 

--majicman

 

(Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!)

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quote:
Originally posted by infosponge:

We put a travel bug tag on an alligator and chained it up to a tree near one of our caches. Nobody's picked him up yet. Come to think of it, nobody's made it back from that cache yet either... hmmm...


 

Steve Irwin has been tied up attending openings of his movie.

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Sorry Majic_on_the_half_shell, this needs a serious response.

 

Many here have commented that individuals are responsible for their own safety.

I couldn't agree more but am not limiting this concern to snakes and injury from external forces.

 

If you've lived a sedimentary life for an extended time, please be careful to not put undue strain on the old ticker.

 

I'm concerned that some psycho will place a bomb somewhere, someday.

I'm very afraid that we'll lose someone who pushed themselves too hard in the pursuit of a FTF or another geonotch under their belt.

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When someone posted they found poison ivy by my cache, I added their comment to the text of my cache description in bold so it always stay on the first page. the message otherwise would get "lost" as the original post moves to the next page as subsequent finders log their finds.

 

In effect, update your cache page when need be. There's no reason for dangerous or unhealthy situations not to be flagged.

 

Alan

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Well now, I just did 500 in damage to my Georig while caching. I've also fallen on rocks, ripped up my legs on rocks and sagebrush, found rattlesnakes and ticks by the score. I've been dehydrated, waded through 4' of snow in a T-Shirt and countless of other stupid things. Not once was it ever the person who hid the caches fault. As a hider of caches I can't control people who might drive over rocks their rig can't handle. I can't tell them to avoid a tick that might cary Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever or Lyme Disease. I can't keep them from falling face first into mouse droppings and contracting the hanna (sp?) virus. I can't make them take enough water, or force them to carry a walking stick. I can't stop them from looking in a junk pile when I myself didn't hide it there. The amount of things I can't control is vast, yet what YOU as a cache can control is even more important. You are responsible, because YOU are the one that will get hurt if you do something stupid. Sorry to year you all got hurt, but maybe you should now focus on simpler caches until you get your hiking legs and learn to use a stick to poke in holes, to not fall on the rocks, and to not bash in your GeoRig because you could not see where you were going... Oh wait. I resemble those remarks...

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even typed something and deleted it since it had pretty much already been said. Just have to add my vote to the personal responsibility side. We enjoy difficult and challenging caches. We also know when to call it quits when we are not up to the challenge. That hasn't happened with a geocache yet, but we have backed out of other situations upon discovering that we didn't have enough water, the kids weren't up to it, we didn't have proper equipment or clothing, that *unbreakable* (but really pretty) horse we bought for a steal really was unbreakable, etc.... In most cases, it just makes us more determined to prepare better and try again. Blame the cache owner? No way! If a truly dangerous situation does arise, I hope that they would post a warning. But for the most part, I think it's up to each person/team to decide what their comfort zone is and to stay within it.

 

GeoMedic - team leader of GeoStars

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Of course there are ticks and snakes and slippery rocks. One would expect that when you're out in the field. But if your cache is 20 feet from a cliff, it's plain wrong and irresponsible if you don't post that fact on your cache page. Remember this is not a professsional sport like race car driving or a dangerous hobby like mountain climbing where the players know the sport itself is dangerous. There are "amateurs" out there, with varying experience with their family and kids just out for the afternoon.

 

It's kind of like inviting someone to come over to your house. You wouldn't be expected to tell them not to speed, or pass when they shouldn't, or stop at the lights, etc. But if you knew that a stop sign was down at an intersection they had to go through, wouldn't you tell them about it?

 

Alan

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quote:
Originally posted by Mushu:

 

If you've lived a sedimentary life for an extended time, please be careful to not put undue strain on the old ticker.


sed·i·men·ta·ry

Pronunciation Key (sd-mnt-r, -mntr) also sed·i·men·tal (-mntl)

adj.

Of, containing, resembling, or derived from sediment.

Geology. Of or relating to rocks formed by the deposition of sediment.

 

If you've lived that kind of life, you're not at all up for geocaching. . . Not even for those meaningful caches that have high sedimental value icon_razz.gif

 

On a more serious note, I think it does bear being repeating...frequently...that Geocaching, like any walk in the wild, is an At Your Own Risk activity. A cache hunt is not a Disney Land attraction. I can see people, like me, who live in a country where many people feel the Government should protect citizens from any possible opportunity to harm themselves, might see a professional looking web site like geocaching.com, see the star ratings, see the nicely written cache pages, and fall into the mindset that they are not REALLY walking off-trail in unknown areas, they are on an organized "cache hunt activity" and can safely keep thier head down over the GPS and be safely guided to the prize. It happens to me, and I conciously know better.

Sure, if a cache were on the edge of a cliff, like Alan said, I'd appriciate if the cache page mentioned it, but why should expect it? I don't expect, or want, the government putting warning signs and fences around every possible drop in the wilderness...I need to watch out for my self if I choose to walk around where sidewalks aren't. Why should I expect differently, just because someone told me the left tupperware container at point X?

 

[This message was edited by ApK on July 15, 2002 at 06:57 AM.]

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It's the cacher who is responsible for his or her own safety. There are several caches in Oregon that are accessed only at low tide and the Pacific Ocean waits for no one. I have and will not attempt these with my family, kids 3 and 11 years. There are other caches better suited to us and our capabilities and limitations. We screen caches and have eliminated several by the location, log entries and map study. I would suggest the same. I have also approached a cache and turned around because of the terrain. We, unlike the USCG, do not have to go. The USCG says they have to go, they also say they don't have to come back. We do have to come back. Logging caches are not worth a life or injury.

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In Geobuddy's defense, sometimes the terrain and difficulty ratings are innacurate and inconsistent and might not adequately prepare you for your hunt.

Sounds like Geobuddy had unusually bad luck his first time out, but we should just let him know it comes with the territory, the cache is probably not to blame and he should just learn from the experience and keep on truckin.

I'd feel bad if he stopped caching because of this, but maybe it just wasn't for him in the first place. It really does take a "unique" person to endure the serious hazards of nature just to find a little box of junk hidden in the woods.

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quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

It really does take a "unique" person to endure the serious hazards of nature just to find a little box of junk hidden in the woods.


Pet peeve alert. Sorry 'bout this Goat...

 

But actually, it would take an "unusual" person to endure the serious hazards of nature... If it required a "unique" person, there would only be one geocacher.

 

u·nique [yoo neek ] adjective

 

1. only one: being the only one of its kind

 

Jamie

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Z:

quote:
Originally posted by Goat6500:

It really does take a "unique" person to endure the serious hazards of nature just to find a little box of junk hidden in the woods.


Pet peeve alert. Sorry 'bout this Goat...

 

But actually, it would take an "unusual" person to endure the serious hazards of nature... If it required a "unique" person, there would only be _one_ geocacher.

 

u·nique [yoo neek ] _adjective_

 

1. only one: being the only one of its kind

 

Jamie


 

...of course, another interpretation would suggest that ONLY unique people geocache, as there are no human clones yet.

 

[RANT]

Seriously, though Jamie, this is pet peeve of mine, too! What bothers me most is that dictionaries (being descriptive, not proscriptive) now list "unusual" as a second definition for "unique" so we now no longer have a word to unambiguously mean "one of kind."

That's not living language, that's just dilution of expressiveness and loss of subtlety due to to ignorance and laziness.

[/RANT]

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I agree that it is the cacher is responsible for making the judgement call as to whether to do a cache or not. I also know that when the cache was placed, possibly in a different season, the conditions may have been different. On the other hand, people use the rating stars as part of the determining factor to decide if it is an appropriate cache for their needs. Seeing that first page, with the snakes, wouldn't that push up the difficulty rating. It is marked as a 1 now and I don't consider snakes that close to a cache being a 1. What does that clayjar rating system put it at?

 

Personally, if I come that close to a snake, I will puke and pass out!

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I personally assume responsibility for myself and anyone I may bring along .

 

I consider this a sport , since it gives me a good workout , so far anyway .

 

We found one today where you could easily have turned an ankle or took a fall IF you aren't careful .

 

I guess maybe you should look for indoors caches from now on ?

 

Hope you guys recovered ok icon_biggrin.gif

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I myself was in a tarrantula/snake riddled area and was quite cautious but no doubt was a little scared. Never reach into a hole or a hollow tree. Always use a stick or something first and look around for a place to run before you think you need it.

 

All we can do is try to use our better judgement when placing them. We already know to consider the wildlife and nature preservation. Just consider some safety when placing the darn thing. If an event happens, note it in the logs. I.e. hey watch out for falling rocks on this one or I saw a rattlesnake on the way or some such

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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Z:

Pet peeve alert. Sorry 'bout this Goat...

 

But actually, it would take an "unusual" person to endure the serious hazards of nature... If it required a "unique" person, there would only be _one_ geocacher.


 

Well, at least no one said it would take a "unique individual." icon_wink.gif

 

Oh, incidentally, I accompanied my daughter to the cache-in-question today. No sign of snakes, nesting-or-otherwise, in the vicinity of the cache, or of police, or anyone else, watching the park. We did meet up with dozens of friendly ducks.

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quote:
Originally posted by Geobuddy:

I have just started Caching and have now gotten injured on two caches placed by the same person, also my son got hurt on the last one. icon_mad.gif


 

I've not yet read all the other replies in this thread yet, but I have to say that any cache might have a hidden danger nearby.

 

Any time you are hiding something out in nature, you run the risk of animals or bugs being around - and if you are looking for the cache and you don't feel that it is safe, you should stop and go look for another one.

 

I find it hard to hold the hider responsible if a random animal wanders in and bites you, or if you trip and fall on something that is in the area, sorry.

 

Rubbertoe - Webcam - Image Archives

--== http://www.bigfoot.com/~rbatina ==--

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all i can say is if you can't stand the heat well never mind.I go camping alot. and it rains I don't stop going camping.I went to a cache today came out loaded with ticks.comes with the sport.I went right to another.Just be carefull and always know your surroundings.

Thanks

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