Religious Materials OK?

February 6, 2003

You are correct!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Vince Malum Patientia"

1.3k · February 6, 2003

Put what you want in a cache, as long as it isn't harmful or pornographic. There is nothing a person could put in a cache that will sway my beliefs one way or another. The REASON why it's there might make the difference. If you're leaving a religious item because you truly believe someone would want to trade for it, fine. But leaving an item in hopes of aligning someone's beliefs with your own is a futile waste of limited cache space. The decision about how to worship (or not) is something very personal, and I don't think a pamphlet or tape in a cache is going to make a difference. There is a thread about what type of items would you like to find in a cache, and I don't recall anyone mentioning religious items.

[This message was edited by BloenCustoms on February 06, 2003 at 04:54 PM.]

3.1k · February 7, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by montythemule:
For a moment, lets change the belief system expounded upon here to the Islamic belief....If these are equally welcomed, then thats the correct spirit.

By the same token, if Xian items are considered verboten, so should items of all religions be. This includes dreamcatchers, prayer flags, fetishes, books and tapes on yoga or Tai Chi...

quote:
My vote is No don't put it in! My personal belief is you should stay neutral and not impose your personal opinions on anyone that is just having a good time doing what they enjoy!

Isn't this imposing your personal opinions on everyone enjoying reading this board?

Besides, we're talking about trinkets, not Jack Chick tracts and pamphlets, which I believe have been explicitly forbidden. Anyone who finds cache trinkets holding sway over their religious beliefs better not drive past a church or walk by the Christmas card section of a Hallmark store.

Mein Vater war ein Wandersmann, und ich hab' auch im Blut

4.7k · February 13, 2003

i'm not in favor of having religious materials foisted on me or anyone else with no choice.

i can choose not to take any labelled material i might not want

or i can choose to find out what lurks unknown..i can put it soemwhere else if i don't want it.

some religious materials while worthless to me on spiritual grounds are interesting on artistic merits, or just plain anthropological curiosity.

leave what you like. don't be hateful. i'll be happy to look at and consider your cross or ankh or pentacle. ...or the demo from your indie band for that matter.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

February 17, 2003

We need someone putting copies of "Anthem" or "The Communist Manifesto" or "The Necronomicon" or something in caches just to keep it interesting.

What Would Yoda Do?

February 19, 2003

My screen name is a reference to scripture and I'm all for spreading the Word but I really doubt leaving some tape/cd/track/pamphlet/cross or rosary is a very effective means of doing so. Evangelism requires communication and sensativity to the other person. Bombing caches with tracks is hardly a subtle way to fish. I suppose it's possible that some person might stumble upon some tape or pamphlet, decide to check it out and it change their life. Doesn't seem likely though. In fact, there's a good chance that seeing such stuff would tend to further alienate people who are already turned off by "religion." My view is that it's best to just enjoy this pasttime for what it is -- good exercise, simple enjoyment, a nice thing to do with the kids. Now if I happen to meet someone out caching and a "door of utterance" presents itself, that's one thing. But littering caches with religious materials seems like a mistake to me.

1.6k · February 21, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by EraSeek:
Your cd's may attract me if I felt they had a higher level of intellectual content to them and not just a rehashing of someone else's beliefs and why I should think the way they do.

But what if I don't like McDonalds because I am a radical leftwing vegan zealot, and I find that someone has left a coupon for a free Quarter pounder with cheese, which really irks me?

Would it be in this case, McToy: yes, McCoupon: no?

canadazuuk

1.6k · February 21, 2003

and oh yeah, to stay on topic, put 'em in

your reasoning is excellent

My Creation cd's from Answers in Genesis have found some new homes... and people quite enjoyed my caches they were in.

I have a cache coming out titled 'Romans 1:20'.

Stay tuned.

canadazuuk

March 2, 2003

http://www.geocaching.com/articles/requirements.asp

... where, under the heading "Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines", you will find the following:

"Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas will not be listed. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

Don't use geocaching to pursue your agenda either by way of the caches you create, or by the items you leave in caches. The point here is "agenda". You've asked about leaving certain items because of your desire to spread a certain message. No. It's against the posted rules, and would be seen by many as offensive for that very reason.

Unfortunately it's impossible to make exceptions for caches or items that "we all agree are good and worthy" because we don't all agree. If you want to pursue your Christian agenda by using geocaching as a vehicle, the proper method is to start a Christian geocaching site.

GeeMack

March 3, 2003

I'm an Atheist,I swear to God I am.Why do people want to leave religious items,condoms, and other waste of time crap like this in a Cache?Lets have some fun people!Save the Jesus loves the world stuff for church.I think it's time for me to get off this site and go listen to the Beatles.Man,I miss John Lennon,"IMAGINE" that...

March 5, 2003

Sorry, came late to this discussion.

I like to leave Get Out Of Hell Free cards as a signature item in all of the caches that I find, not because of it's religiosity or lack and parody of it, but because it's funny.

However, I did take a Book of Mormon from a cache a few years ago, more because the cache was full and needed the room, but knowing that I'd find a good use for it someday. That good use came this winter. We've had more Jehovah's Witnesses and bible thumpers knocking on the doors in the neighborhood. So, whenever I answer and they're there, I find out who they're representing, and trade them out some of their propaganda for some of another religion, thank them, and kindly but firmly close the door. Taking it from a largely existential view, none of us has the right answer, so I'm doing a service by disseminating other's research.

So, in answer to the subject, go ahead and leave 'em in! I'm an adult, and have a highly honed ability to ignore things that I find distasteful. I can ignore things in a cache, and try to leave it in better shape than I found it, and you may reach someone with your literature. Just don't be offensive, or tell me that I'm going to Hell as an opener, or I'll cache in/trash out that sucker faster than you put it in there.

Budophylus

San Antonio, TX

5-star cache team member (because we can make the easiest 1/1 into a 5-* difficulty cache)

What started all of this? Well, I said to my friend: "I'm bored. Can't we find a new sport?" Now, hundreds of caches later...

March 5, 2003

Being a Christian is awesome! Leaving a tract hoping that someone will find it is impersonnal and is about the same as an ad in a newspaper. Personally, I believe it is better to share your faith by living example. Those you influence will be forever changed.

March 5, 2003

"Leaving a tract hoping that someone will find it is impersonnal and is about the same as an ad in a newspaper."

Exactly, this constitutes an agenda. Any message for which one would buy advertising space in the newspaper is obviously inappropriate material for placing in a cache.

luv2fish also said...

"Personally, I believe it is better to share your faith by living example. Those you influence will be forever changed."

Glad you feel that way. Thanks for helping point out that everyone should set a good example. Do NOT leave any materials, religious or otherwise, with the intent of spreading a message. Pursuit of political, commercial, or religious agendas must all be avoided as part of the geocaching game, or they must all be allowed.

If religious propaganda is acceptable as cache contents, then we happily welcome other informative material that may be left by the Ku Klux Klan or the Nazis, for example. Of those replying to this thread, it seems likely that many advocates of pursuing their own religious agenda would cry "foul" if Satanists started leaving more of their pamphlets in caches, yet Satanism is a religion, too.

The game is currently very specific about prohibiting outside agendas. Be a good example, don't do it. Those who leave such materials set a bad example by being clearly without regard for the other players and the objective of the game.

If you left religious materials in caches before you knew the rules, you were just negligent. If you leave this sort of material after you know the rules, you're simply a contemptuous jerk. Leaving condoms displays more class.

GeeMack

March 6, 2003

Geemack,

I've never understood why it is okay to tell others why it is not okay for them to express opinions, then in the same breath, express your own. We all have an agenda or two, so what?

The "rules" of geocaching are not very complicated and the only real rule is to use common sense. There are a few no-no's like tabacco, ammo, fire arms, liquor, etc., but that's about it, and those are "common" sense.

I don't think any of us want to start defining what is okay and not okay in a cache. Stick with the common sense idea.

Okay, you may not be religious, that's your choice. Let's stick with the original question, is it okay to put religious materials in a cache? Answer: Sure. (You may not like it, but others may.)

Is it a great idea? Not in my opinion, but neither is a I wouldn't call anyone names or pin labels on them. I don't like everything I find in caches, but that's okay, others will.

Geocaching is about the hunt not the treasure.

Enjoy the hunt!

luv2fish

March 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Geemack:
The game is currently very specific about prohibiting outside agendas. Be a good example, don't do it. Those who leave such materials set a bad example by being clearly without regard for the other players and the objective of the game.

If you left religious materials in caches before you knew the rules, you were just negligent. If you leave this sort of material after you know the rules, you're simply a contemptuous jerk. Leaving condoms displays more class.

GeeMack

Where can I find these very specific rules prohibiting agendas? I looked around....

March 6, 2003

"Where can I find these very specific rules prohibiting agendas? I looked around...."

http://www.geocaching.com/articles/requirements.asp

Under the heading "Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines", you will find the following:

"Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas will not be listed. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

luv2fish said...

"I've never understood why it is okay to tell others why it is not okay for them to express opinions, then in the same breath, express your own. We all have an agenda or two, so what?"

These forums are the proper place to express opinions about geocaching. The geocaching activity itself, however, with the hiking, exploring, hiding, finding, exchanging, and logging, is not the proper place to promote an ulterior agenda. It is clear to most who respond to threads on this topic, that the design and intent of the game prohibits it, and it should remain that way.

I'm sorry you perceived me as name calling. The words I use have good, real definitions. In group activities such as this, there may be people with enough contempt for their fellow players to disregard the objective in order to pursue some other agenda. However good their intentions, that still makes them contemptuous, by definition. Once they realize they are doing something contrary to the objective, yet continue to do it, then they may be described as... hmmm... have a better word than jerks (complacent... negligent)?

Most respondents have been very articulate in pointing out that the answer to the original question is "no". Propaganda in caches is contrary to the objective of this activity. To persist in placing it displays little regard for the other players. Most participants, those who aren't contemptuous, won't be leaving religious, political, or commercial messages, or other items that are likely to generate controversy in caches. Can't get any simpler than that.

GeeMack

March 7, 2003

quote:
"Where can I find these very specific rules prohibiting agendas? I looked around...."
http://www.geocaching.com/articles/requirements.asp

Under the heading "Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines", you will find the following:

"Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas will not be listed. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

It may be a case of semantics but the quoted text says caches of a religious bent will not be LISTED. It doesn't say anything about religous literature, music, etc. being placed in a cache. Obviously, the administrators cannot control what people leave. That's up to the individual. Personally, I think it's a bad idea to leave religious material -- but for reasons of bad evangelistic style, not because it's offensive. Actually, I do find a lot of religous materials to be offensive but I can look the other way.

That is one option when we find things we don't like in a cache. As I see it we can:

1.) Leave it

2.) Take it and read/listen to it

3.) Take it and trash it.

Personally, I find the Nazi propaganda argument persuassive. I don't want to see that kind of junk in a cache. If I found that I would probably remove it and trash it. In that case, it would be pretty hard for me to condemn someone who trashes religous material . . .

In either case, I think the fair thing to do when you find something offensive is to use that as your trade item. TAKE the item and leave something in it's place. Go ahead and leave a note saying something like:

Took the offensive religous (racist/environmentalist/pro-life/pro-choice/political) crap and left a pair of fuzzy dice. Promptly threw away the propaganda. This sort of stuff does not belong in a cache.

That should pretty well take care of it . . .

1.6k · March 7, 2003

The rules refer to listing a cache as a 'platform for an agenda'.

I find the notion that simply placing *some* material within a cache causes the cache to become a 'platform', to be dubious at best.

Draw a line in the sand, and the wind blows it away.

1.6k · March 7, 2003

I am a Lutheran. I have been a fundamentalist in the past. I have been a burned out fundamentalist before going back to the Lutheran church. I don't mind other's religious beliefs and respect their right to practice the faith (or lack thereof) as they see fit. I ask that they do the same for me.

I am a big fan of the Golden Rule and believe that the best way for this game to continue is to practice it when geocaching. That is, leave something you would want to find.

None of us wants to walk for a mile and spend 30 minutes hunting an area just to find an ammo box full of crap. We all seem to agree on this. Why would anyone leave something that, while meaningful to them, would be seen as an affront if slightly different. For example, the same people who see a fundamentalist sermon on CDROM as a cool cache item would be less than thrilled to find a fundamentalist Muslim sermon on CDROM.

This is a game for the part of our lives that is called "recreation". Lets keep it fun, and fun for all of us.

By appointment to the Court of HRM Queen Mikki I.

March 8, 2003

Let's not make a big deal outta something that isn't a big problem, okay?

I find trading a cheap item for a cool thing to be offensive or finding a cache with a few junky things to be more troublesome.

Let's raise the bar and have some fun!

March 10, 2003

ive come across a cache that had religious material in it... personally, i dont like it and would be distgusted to see it in a cache ... BUT thats just me. ya gotta consider the fact that non-religious people comprise about 2% of the world. so ya gotta figure that there are a whole lotta people out there that would find benefit in religious natured stuff.. so i say, why not.

but then again, im a little more open minded than those out there that would destroy religious material if found in a cache.

take a chance.

March 11, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by NUGUNSLINGER:
ive come across a cache that had religious material in it... personally, i dont like it and would be distgusted to see it in a cache ... BUT thats just me. ya gotta consider the fact that non-religious people comprise about 2% of the world. so ya gotta figure that there are a whole lotta people out there that would find benefit in religious natured stuff.. so i say, why not.

Ah, but that's the trick - which religion?

Ron/yumitori

March 11, 2003

cache description I found - quote:

"W.W.J.C. stands for "What Would Jesus Cache?". This is religious cache,so if religion gets your back up, you'd better not open it when you find it - for your own protection. However, if you are searching, or if you want to pass the gospel on to others, this is the right place. The idea behind this cache is to replace what you take with something that expresses or is informative about your faith. Please keep this cache positive. No material that slams anyone else's beliefs. The cache is in Brady's Run Park. Look for an ammo box covered with cammo tape (Okay, no praise the Lord and pass the ammunition jokes. It was just the best container for the job.) ..."

This is a cache I will probably visit when I'm in the area and I plan to leave a little credit-card sized magnet with an angel on it.

I think this would be in keeping with the 'spirit' of the cache.

If I was offended for some obscure reason that someone would place a cache like this on our site - I simply wouldn't go to it but I sure wouldn't harm it in any way or tell them to remove it. Notice that this cache is set up for many beliefs as long as you don't slam someone else's.

If someone wanted a Nazi cache and posted it as such then so be it, it just would be on my 'don't waste my time' list.

"The hardest thing to find is something that's not there!"

March 11, 2003

Maybe I'll put a copy of my new book in some caches, after it gets published...

Cheap self-promotion!

--majicman

March 16, 2003

Wow, I can't beleive this is still on the main page! I haven't been here in awhile. :-P

CODENAME: ALPHA OPERATOR

daedalus://govlink/secure/majestic/12.12.12/ops/throne/AO

MAJESTIC-12: THRONE G6 LEVEL AGENT

http://www.planetdeusex.com

Religious Materials OK?

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Join the conversation