+gpsblake Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) After 18 months, Magellan has finally released 2.13 to the public. It's a whopping 1.2 GB download, probably because the map is updated. Release notes and link can be found at Magellan's website http://support.magellangps.com/support/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=381&nav=0,18,24,62 I'll dust off my GC, update my unit, and report back praises, problems, etc etc Edited January 19, 2013 by gpsblake Quote Link to comment
+rav_bunneh Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 An undocumented feature of firmware 2.1.3 is that both .mgi and .imi format map files work in this release. Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) Just a few notes. The spinning map and arrow issue has been resolved it appears, a very good sign. Fonts are larger on the MENU items. Track summary is real nice also. The SEARCH NEARBY FEATURE from the map display is well done. You can also choose the size of the arrow on the map screen now. WAYPOINT PROJECTION is now much easier, just go to tools, WAYPOINT PROJECTION. Maps are much smoother now with more detail. They also appear to have fixed the bug that would fill your map with US route numbers. However, the map data itself is still out of date, it's missing parts of an Interstate near here that opened up years ago. Not a big deal to me. Tomorrow, I'll go to what really counts to me. Accuracy of the unit in dense environments, and accuracy of stuff like the odometer. I'll use an adjusted benchmark for these test. Edited January 19, 2013 by gpsblake Quote Link to comment
+icanshine Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Thanks for posting this. Downloading the update now. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Just a few notes. The spinning map and arrow issue has been resolved it appears, a very good sign. Fonts are larger on the MENU items. Track summary is real nice also. The SEARCH NEARBY FEATURE from the map display is well done. You can also choose the size of the arrow on the map screen now. WAYPOINT PROJECTION is now much easier, just go to tools, WAYPOINT PROJECTION. Maps are much smoother now with more detail. They also appear to have fixed the bug that would fill your map with US route numbers. However, the map data itself is still out of date, it's missing parts of an Interstate near here that opened up years ago. Not a big deal to me. Tomorrow, I'll go to what really counts to me. Accuracy of the unit in dense environments, and accuracy of stuff like the odometer. I'll use an adjusted benchmark for these test. Yes, I would describe the base map as "smoother" good choice of words. My Time zone is all messed up, but I haven't taken it outside for a signal yet. "Lifetime found" under Geocache summary appears to be wiped out. I personally couldn't care less, but some new cachers, especially ones that have had a GC from day one might not like that. So long to the annoying circular main menu, and hello National Geographic Topo Maps subscription. Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 I also can't figure out how to adjust the "lifetime found" under Geocache summary, even through editing ini files. Not a biggie but if someone smarter then me can figure out how to do this, it would be appreciated. Odometer works correctly and accurately. And again, the map and compass not spinning around plus the return of the Traditional compass arrow like the Triton's is a huge plus. A must recommend upgrade. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Yes, the time zone thing worked fine once I took it outside for a signal. I would hardly think that would have gotten by the Beta testers before the release. Still under 100 downloads world-wide as of the time of this post. I wonder how they get the word out? In the grand scheme of things, a very small percentage of Geocachers ever look at this forum. And this is supposedly a "dedicated to Geocaching" unit. Do they email everyone who registered the unit? Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yea, the Magellan website can be a real mess to navigate to. If you click on the promo site for the GC here http://www.magellangps.com/Products/eXploristseries/eXplorist-GC then click on firmware upgrade, it will give you Firmware 1.6, which is over 2 years old. You have to REALLY dig around to find the latest firmware. And all their pictures of the GC still show the original screen. Hello Magellan Hello... You got a good firmware update here, please spread the word via your email list and website. Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 "Lifetime found" under Geocache summary appears to be wiped out. Okay, I just figured out how to change that in case others wish to do so. It's in X:\App\Setting.xml where X is the drive letter Open up setting.xml AFTER BACKING UP THE FILE - I used wordpad Then find this string <Setting name="GC_LIFE_TIME_FOUND" type="int">0</Setting> and change the zero to whatever number you want. Save file. Quote Link to comment
+rav_bunneh Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I noticed that in 2.13 there is now a Show POI option in Map Options and a Custom POIs folder. Questions: How does this work? What format does this use? Are there compatible POI files for Hawaii? Can I make my own POIs to use rather than use waypoints; how? It'd be nice if there was a full and complete manual for the new update. Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Rav, I think it's for people who wish to upgrade their base maps with another map source since the GC now can do that. Perhaps they can be user created and then loaded into the GC. I did notice on today's geocaching run that the GC really slows down when looking for geocaches when you have a database of 1,000 of them. I also noticed a bug, the geocache number of finds on the Dashboard doesn't update when you find a cache. And it's also annoying that if you are using the Dashboard or compass only that there is no option to log a cache on those screens, you have to back out, go to Menu, click on Geocaches, clock on the cache you are actually looking for, then click on find. Quote Link to comment
+Cacher_Penguin Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I have updated and loved using the Explorist gc version 2.3. But i have now noticed i slight 'glitch'. I've just plugged my Explorist into my laptop to upload my field notes in geocaching.com and to update GSAK with what i found today. Only I can't find any 'logs.txt' file (or similar on the unit? Any advice Roz Quote Link to comment
+bckane3042 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Question on the eXplorist GC - Software Version 2.13 everytime I shut the tracking off and show on maps.......it seem to turn it self back on. Is this a bug in the software.??????? Quote Link to comment
Snowey&Friends Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hi all! My dad and I are very technologically unintelligent, so we would appreciate all the help we can get. my dad has the explorist GC. I recently bought him a new computer with Windows 8 on it (I hate it, btw) now he can't geocaches to load onto his gps because the computer doesn't seem to recognize it... so, he wanted to download 2.13 and did that this morning...but he didn't know how to get it onto his gps...and now I can't find it anywhere on the computer because Windows 8 is obnoxious. Anyone know where I can find it? and when I do find it, how do I get it on the gps? Does anyone know if this update even helps the problem with the Magellan communicator? because when I emailed Magellan support, they told me that they hadn't tried it out with windows 8 and that I should just use an older version of windows....ugh. please help?? Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hi all! My dad and I are very technologically unintelligent, so we would appreciate all the help we can get. my dad has the explorist GC. I recently bought him a new computer with Windows 8 on it (I hate it, btw) now he can't geocaches to load onto his gps because the computer doesn't seem to recognize it... so, he wanted to download 2.13 and did that this morning...but he didn't know how to get it onto his gps...and now I can't find it anywhere on the computer because Windows 8 is obnoxious. Anyone know where I can find it? and when I do find it, how do I get it on the gps? Does anyone know if this update even helps the problem with the Magellan communicator? because when I emailed Magellan support, they told me that they hadn't tried it out with windows 8 and that I should just use an older version of windows....ugh. please help?? From what I've heard, the Magellan Communicator is not working on Windows 8. If you could find the Explorist as an externally connected drive in "My Computer", you could just drop the .GPX files in. But with Windows 8, I'd imagine finding "My Computer" is even a chore. I've only dabbled a little, the 13 yr. old son has a laptop with Windows 8. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hi all! My dad and I are very technologically unintelligent, so we would appreciate all the help we can get. my dad has the explorist GC. I recently bought him a new computer with Windows 8 on it (I hate it, btw) now he can't geocaches to load onto his gps because the computer doesn't seem to recognize it... so, he wanted to download 2.13 and did that this morning...but he didn't know how to get it onto his gps...and now I can't find it anywhere on the computer because Windows 8 is obnoxious. Anyone know where I can find it? and when I do find it, how do I get it on the gps? Does anyone know if this update even helps the problem with the Magellan communicator? because when I emailed Magellan support, they told me that they hadn't tried it out with windows 8 and that I should just use an older version of windows....ugh. please help?? From what I've heard, the Magellan Communicator is not working on Windows 8. If you could find the Explorist as an externally connected drive in "My Computer", you could just drop the .GPX files in. But with Windows 8, I'd imagine finding "My Computer" is even a chore. I've only dabbled a little, the 13 yr. old son has a laptop with Windows 8. Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Only I can't find any 'logs.txt' file (or similar on the unit? x:\geocaches\newlogs.txt - Is that what you were looking? Edited January 25, 2013 by gpsblake Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I might as well add a "bug report", and see if anyone else has experienced this. I tried to navigate to a Waypoint today, and the friggin' Explorist "didn't work", for lack of a better term. There was no distance to the cache in the dashboard, it was totally blank. The arrow worked though. Fortunately, being 8 degrees F. outside, I was just going for a front yard ammo box at somebody's house. But yes, I absolutely could not navigate to a waypoint, as opposed to a Geocache, which works fine. Just thought I'd add that one. I'm reading all the other bug reports in this thread, and will see if I get the same results as reported. Quote Link to comment
+Cacher_Penguin Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Only I can't find any 'logs.txt' file (or similar on the unit? x:\geocaches\newlogs.txt - Is that what you were looking? Yes, it is. But it's just not there Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Yes, it is. But it's just not there Yea, I see it's just a blank txt file now on my unit. sorry about that. I can't find an a file with that either and I checked the xml, ini, and txt files. Quote Link to comment
+Cacher_Penguin Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Yes, it is. But it's just not there Yea, I see it's just a blank txt file now on my unit. sorry about that. I can't find an a file with that either and I checked the xml, ini, and txt files. I'm glad it's not me! Quote Link to comment
+markandroxanne Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I have updated and loved using the Explorist gc version 2.3. But i have now noticed i slight 'glitch'. I've just plugged my Explorist into my laptop to upload my field notes in geocaching.com and to update GSAK with what i found today. Only I can't find any 'logs.txt' file (or similar on the unit? Any advice Roz Same problem here, now I must log each cache one at a time. This is a big problem if you have a large number of caches to log. Sorry I do not have a fix for the problem but I do share your pain.... Quote Link to comment
+gelfling6 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'm running into an odd-ball problem.. I usually pack the GPX file to the maximum, and I think I've found a limit... If you try to add a child waypoint, and the waypoint file has 500 or so entries, (I've done this with 5000 geocaches selected with GSAK, 4500, and 4000 so-far..) I seem to get the following: Is there an absolute maximum? or did I hit a bug? Quote Link to comment
+gelfling6 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Is there an absolute maximum? or did I hit a bug? Apparently, an actual BUG! Version 1.7, had no problem allowing new waypoints to be added, even with 500+ child waypoints in storage.. Quite handy if you want to enter a child waypoint for a Multi. BUT...... 2.13, will not allow beyond 100 child waypoints.. Interesting, since when GSAK or even Vantage Point send the separate waypoint GPX, it can send more than 500! And 2.13 will allow seeing up to 100 from the central point. (while 1.7, allowed access to ALL ) Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Magellan has removed the update from their website, only available to those with a password again. I think the biggest flaw was in the inability to load logs from the GC to geocaching.com. I still like the update though. Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Magellan has removed the update from their website, only available to those with a password again. I think the biggest flaw was in the inability to load logs from the GC to geocaching.com. I still like the update though. I'll second that motion as far as still liking it. I like the map, I like how they eliminated the spinning compass (I'm sure no small task on a unit without an electronic compass). I feel no need to get a National Geographic Topo subscription until Spring though, I'm lucky if I'll go out for a cache a week in the sub-arctic weather. Have you tried that or any other maps yet? Quote Link to comment
+geopuce Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Contacted Magellan and waiting for them to reply with finding. Love the new features and just sad about the lost of field notes. Will post when get news from them. Quote Link to comment
+Atlas Cached Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Magellan has removed the update from their website, only available to those with a password again. I think the biggest flaw was in the inability to load logs from the GC to geocaching.com. I still like the update though. Garmin just did the same thing with the latest release of BaseCamp. Critical flaws resulting in removing the update from service shortly after releasing it. Does anyone actually test their garbage before they release it any more??? Edited January 31, 2013 by Atlas Cached Quote Link to comment
+fishgeek Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I got a notice about the update from Facebook a few days ago. Besides the Field Notes bug, I only had a few small problems. In the Map Screen, the bottom of the "compass" is hidden under the Data Fields. I use the sun/moon on the compass to orient myself, and they are hidden about a third of the time. (They really should call it a "direction dial", since there are no actual magnetic fields involved.) I also extremely dislike the new interface for entering field notes. I enter TB codes into my notes. It's a bear to go from letters to numbers and back a few times just to enter the six-digit code. The old interface had everything in one screen. They can it change back when they fix the big notes bug. Other than that, most of the changes were big improvements. Quote Link to comment
+gelfling6 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I think I just ran into another bug.. Accuracy is paying a BIG price! It may zero-down to about 10 feet, but you're nowhere near the cache.. I just stripped down my GPX file to only 200, and I was able to enter a new waypoint, BUT...... it had me standing smack in the middle of a 30 X 30 foot field, where it said I was within 0 of the cache (+/-26 feet), and there was NOTHING around me.. Nothing but a storm drain, and I checked that thoroughly! (no place to put an altoids tin in there, less than 2-feet depth and nothing with a magnet.) then, it would suddenly jump out 30 feet away, +/- 20 feet, so.. start walking that way.. suddenly I'm walking the wrong direction.. Okay, turn the other way, start walking, Still going thew wrong direction, and now 40 feet away even after walking 20 feet.. (it never changed from the 30..) It still jumps all over the place... Time to retrieve 1.7 again... Quote Link to comment
+BenandJules Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Well I was loving the software update on my GC, I love ther new interface but it has taking me a couple of trips tp get used to using the dashbooard a lot more However.....I have 2 major issues with my device 1. being not able to upload field notes from my devise as mentioned in previous logs 2. and i have discovered this over the last couple of days, I have recently sent for review 23 caches, I averaged all the coordinates and on putting these into the map for review the coordinates looked wrong on the mapping, I then went to locate a multi cache I have the coordinates for and at GZ my device told me I was still 300 ft away, last night whicle caching for a puzzle me and a friend both had the same coordinated in our devices(his is not a GC) and he was at GZ I still showed 323 feet away????? Then on getting home all 23 of my caches are refused due to bad coordinates, i had expected this on looking at the positions on Google but as I had averaged thought maybe it was google, of course the coordinates are approx 300 ft out so, basically my devise in general is 300 feet out when capturing coordinates and on adding in waypoints, I am so angry as I wasted 7 hours getting useless coordinates and look very foolish to our local reviewer has anyone else had this problem with there devise Is there a fix Can it be calibrated Can I go back to the old software as, as much as it looks good, if I can't place caches and get correct coordinates it is a waste of time I am now sulking as me series will not be published for the weekend Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 I honestly haven't tried to create or project a waypoint imputing coordinates manually, so I'll try to do this and see if I get the same error. To rollback to 1.7, a user on magellaninsiders.com gives details on how to do this. http://www.magellaninsiders.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=50&start=60 and look at the 2nd posting. Quote Link to comment
+gelfling6 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I think I took a more brutal path, but it worked! Before I installed the 2.13 update, I did a image copy of the device on a Linux laptop which still accepted the GC as a flash drive.. Took close to an hour to copy the entire 2GB space. When 2.13 wasn't cutting it, I put it back on the Linux laptop, and under Disk Utility, WIPED the memory down to zeros, then used DD to write the 1.7 image back.. result, the device thought it was still 3:15PM,about the time I started the image copy 3 days ago.. took it outside, and in 30 seconds, it locked in on home again, and I was back in business. (again, it still took about an hour, but understandable.) So, basically, right back to where I left off before installing the update. I would, still like to see if I can integrate the new map into the old firmware version. It was an improved view. Quote Link to comment
+5Powells Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Password to download the update? What's up with that: I don't have a password I don't think. The update doesn't appear on the Australian Magellan website, we're still on version 1.7. Quote Link to comment
+gelfling6 Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 (edited) Password to download the update? What's up with that: I don't have a password I don't think. The update doesn't appear on the Australian Magellan website, we're still on version 1.7. They pulled the 2.13 update when too many problems cropped up.. (apparently, released before it was fully beta-tested.) The few who did manage to download it/install it were impressed by some of the new features, but baffled by the features taken out, and some that flat would not work. The Password is strictly for Beta-testers to download the revision.. and I think You'll need to get that from Magellan. Side note to gpsblake, the site with the GC_ROM.ZIP file, seems to be either over-taxed, or poor provider.. this makes the 3rd attempt to download the file, as yesterday it zonked at 813MB... (incomplete).. multiple tries have taken forever (okay, on a type "N300" wifi, reported to complete in close to 6 hours.. On a direct link to the local 10base-T/100 network, it said 22 minutes.. for close to 45 minutes.. then failed.) .. So,, apparently I'm not the only one after the file.. It appears, from the instructions to install, is the exact same as the party who modified the eXp 310 firmware to run on the GC, but wiht his own label. (or, as I did restoring my old 1.7 files to my GC.) Edited February 7, 2013 by gelfling6 Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 Gelfling6, The owner of magellaninsiders.com http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=727129 Send him a message, he's been very good at helping people restore and recover units. Perhaps he has links that are faster then the I one I posted. Quote Link to comment
+gelfling6 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 Gelfling6, The owner of magellaninsiders.com http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=727129 Send him a message, he's been very good at helping people restore and recover units. Perhaps he has links that are faster then the I one I posted. It took awhile, but I finally obtained the file.. (took going to a library which has a direct-to-LAN socket in one of their meeting/study rooms. Even then, it still took close to 1/2 an hour with lots of waiting/stalling.) Interesting??? Version 1.8??? It looks/feels like 1.7, was able to duplicate the image to my Linux laptop, just in case.. It ran fine at a recent meet & greet (a local caching group get-together) .. I am curious, though.. the method they suggest, seems to put the device into a Win-CE monitor mode (the power-up, holding the joy-button up.) pressing Menu, then choosing Flash Storage, seems to remove any restriction of the flash drive.. A further look, when I was making the image copy of the device.. they seem to partition the memory/flash drive similar to how other ARM devices I've been tinkering with (Raspberry Pi mini computer, Compaq iPaq 3970, Sylvania/chinese Win-CE based netbook,) with a base FAT-16 partition, then an extended partition which holds the actual Program/Data. The more I investigate the GC, the more hackable it seems. (hackable in the 'How much can we squeeze from it, not damaging it' method.) Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 The more I investigate the GC, the more hackable it seems. (hackable in the 'How much can we squeeze from it, not damaging it' method.) yup, it's fun to customize and fool with the GC. I've changed some of the icons, added a cool background (any 240x400 png works), made a custom compass, and converted my GC into a 310 including the map. Going to start playing with some of the fonts. Easy enough to convert back to the 1.7 or 2.13, I just reload the files saved on a hard drive. Have to look into it more, see if I can figure out how to add options like being able to mark a cache found from the dashboard screen w/o clicking out of it. Quote Link to comment
+rav_bunneh Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Is there a change log from 2.13 to 2.15? Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Is there a change log from 2.13 to 2.15? Is 2.15 out, replacing 2.13? Sorry, it's winter, and I've only found 3 caches in the last month. I'm afraid I haven't been paying any attention. Check out Magellaninsiders.com I'm sure they're talking about this, and can probably tell you whether or not there is a change log. It takes a day or two to get approved to post, but you should be able to read everything. Quote Link to comment
+gpsblake Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 2.15 is supposed to fix the field notes issue. Not sure about the other stuff, won't get to test drive it until tomorrow. Quote Link to comment
+gelfling6 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) Is there a change log from 2.13 to 2.15? Is 2.15 out, replacing 2.13? Sorry, it's winter, and I've only found 3 caches in the last month. I'm afraid I haven't been paying any attention. Check out Magellaninsiders.com I'm sure they're talking about this, and can probably tell you whether or not there is a change log. It takes a day or two to get approved to post, but you should be able to read everything. Would be nice, hope they fixed a LOT of the problems .13 had.. "99% of the FTF's are found by only 1% of Geocachers. #OccupyGeocaching" - mattbrady775 LOL! Yes, but majority of those are ones who've retired, are the heads of whatever department they work in, or unemployed.. Some of us have to work for a living, and our hobby.. Just noticed on magellaninsider, they have put .15 out for download, and it's still got a few bugs.. Won't post the link here, because it's already slow downloading... (and took me close to an hour the last time with .13) Noticed someone else said that they won't put the password lock on downloading the file again.. So....... time will tell... Edited February 16, 2013 by gelfling6 Quote Link to comment
JoNanB Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 There is no version 2.3. I am using latest 2.15 and any time I log a cache as found the newlogs.txt file is created or added to. Quote Link to comment
+speedtalka Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Do you have to contact Magellan for the password or do you have to purchase rights to the firmware upgrade?? Quote Link to comment
+fishgeek Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 The firmware is free. In the past, you had to have an account for downloads. Do you have to contact Magellan for the password or do you have to purchase rights to the firmware upgrade?? Quote Link to comment
+gelfling6 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) There is no version 2.3. I am using latest 2.15 and any time I log a cache as found the newlogs.txt file is created or added to. There was a 2.13, released prior to 2.15, it was buggy, and unstable. MITAC released it in response to a modified eXplorist 310 firmware someone else had begun releasing. (actually re-wrote some of the HTML) It's the added info it ads to the comments, I keep editing out before I upload the file as a fieldnote.. adding the found, since it already has 'found' in the data, and the time to find, kinda overkill... Also, to speed things up, when I'm out in the field, I'll just put a smiley for finds, and a number, then record a voice note on an old Compaq iPaq 3970 pocket-PC, for my field notes, then when I get home, I'll copy the newlogs.txt file off the GC to my laptop, then transcribe my voice note to the file under a simple text editor, before uploading. there may be a BETA version, but it has not been released yet to the general public (I know, Someone said they never release beta versions.. Hey, someone has to field test them. but I wish they'd also take serious some of the suggestion fixes.) Edited June 25, 2013 by gelfling6 Quote Link to comment
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