Difficulty

[Jbird87]

I have built a new cache and am needing advice on difficulty rating.

When cacher reaches GZ they will have to grab the upper PVC tube and twist and it will fall down revealing the Bison tube in the top of the smaller PVC tube.Any one have an idia what I should rate this?

Edited April 6, 2012 by Jbird87

[+StarBrand]

Without any further information - 2.

 

...and

 

I give it a short life before being manhandled to open. Probably by accident.

[Jbird87]

It will be bolted to a light pole and inserted in the ground, short of taking a hammer to it, it is very sturdy. 2.5 is what I was thinking but that is why I asked did not want to over rate it. Thanks

[+StarBrand]

It will be bolted to a light pole and inserted in the ground, short of taking a hammer to it, it is very sturdy. 2.5 is what I was thinking but that is why I asked did not want to over rate it. Thanks

It is a very bad idea to "insert" any part of a cache into the ground - creates a bad impression for others and reinforces the myth of Geocaching being equal to "buried treasure". Also, unless you have explicit permission, I would not attach anything to a light pole.

 

Sorry.

[Jbird87]

Almost all caches in our area are placed above and below ground level. If I'm not mistaken wasn't the first cache place in the ground? Light pole is in church parking lot and is not used as a light pole.

[+The A-Team]

Almost all caches in our area are placed above and below ground level. If I'm not mistaken wasn't the first cache place in the ground? Light pole is in church parking lot and is not used as a light pole.

That doesn't mean anything. See this section from the Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines:

Please be advised that there is no precedent for placing geocaches. This means that the past publication of a similar geocache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the publication of a new geocache. If a geocache has been published and violates any guidelines listed below, you are encouraged to report it. However, if the geocache was placed prior to the date when a guideline was issued or updated, the geocache is likely to be grandfathered and allowed to stand as is.

 

It doesn't matter if other caches were published that violate the current guidelines. It only matters that your new cache complies with the current guidelines.

[+coman123]

2-2.5 for diff

[+luvvinbird]

I think it's really cool to be creative and I admire anyone who's taken the time to place a cache that requires some thought to discover. Not that I'm an expert on finding those caches, lol, but I've really enjoyed the attempt and that final OMG moment is priceless. As for caches placed "underground", I recently found one under a rock (and in the ground) but the hint was very clear and the difficulty rating gave me a good idea of what to look for and so the end result was a lot of fun. Good luck with this one!

[+JesandTodd]

Without any further information - 2.

 

...and

 

I give it a short life before being manhandled to open. Probably by accident.

 

This. I'd agree with all of it.

[+ngrrfan]

Rate as D2.

 

In the description you might mention that no tools are needed to open it, thus you head off the need for a screwdriver or people trying to open the top section with a screwdriver.

[Jbird87]

The outlet cover is held on with magnets to reveal a clue inside. We have quite a few of this style in our area, so most cachers should know how it operates, only to find a note telling them they are within inches of the true cache. If it gets destroyd it is no big deal I have all of $2.50 invested in it. I only have one other cache, and it is much more fragile and has made it about 8 months without any damage. As for the part about buried, I am only putting about 2 or 3 inches of the nonfunctioning PVC pipe in the ground, there is no need for anyone to dig at all.

[Jbird87]

Here it is installed.

[+hukilaulau]

Very creative! I think 2.5 is about right, if you think about inexperienced cachers taking a little while to figure it out. I agree that there is a good chance someone will break it by trying to force it open but what the heck, I say go for it!

[+briansnat]

I'd say about a 2 or 2.5 max. A few years ago maybe higher, but these are pretty common today and often the first thing people are going to check

[+J the Goat]

Almost all caches in our area are placed above and below ground level. If I'm not mistaken wasn't the first cache place in the ground? Light pole is in church parking lot and is not used as a light pole.

 

Did you get permission from the Church to use their parking lot?

[Jbird87]

I have not placed the cache yet, my last pic is just the cache leaning on my own utility pole. I won’t place a cashe w/out permission. With all of the posters telling me it will get broken, I decided to give it a test. My bro n law is the proverbial bull in a china closet, if he doesn't destroy it no one will. When he arrived at the cache I spied on him and everything went fine for about 10 seconds. He grabbed the steel box cover and pulled, then instead of grabbing the note (hint) in the outlet box he grabbed the wooden dowel that the magnet is mounted on to hold the cover in place and ripped it off, thinking it was somehow the log. Then he read the note (hint) and stuffed the dowel and the hint back in the box. Now that the dowel had been destroyed and would not hold cover plate on. He then used the hint and opened the cache just fine. I have since removed the dowel design and bolted the magnet inside so it can’t be mistaken for a log sheet. I then tested its ability to with stand the weed eater. Schedule 40 PVC holds up just fine, I then gave it a good kick and a few yanks and pulls. Everything holds firm and strong, short of hitting it with a Mack truck I can’t imagine anything destroying this cache.

[+Lil Devil]

Things like that are pretty common around here. I'd rate it a 1, maybe 1.5 if it's aged more to look like it's been there a while.

[+The A-Team]

Everything holds firm and strong, short of hitting it with a Mack truck I can’t imagine anything destroying this cache.

That sounds like a challenge to me! You'd be surprised the lengths some people will go to sign the log.

[Jbird87]

Everything holds firm and strong, short of hitting it with a Mack truck I can’t imagine anything destroying this cache.

That sounds like a challenge to me! You'd be surprised the lengths some people will go to sign the log.

 

This is why I chose my brother inlaw as my test subject, he can't even get a stainless steel coffie cup to last more than a week.lol

[+OzzOzz]

The blue box is an inside box, you should convert the blue to a weather-tight outside box, or at least paint it, anyone electrically knowledgeable will spot it as a fake, and possibly destroy it. Don't get me wrong, very clever and a good cache. Except for the blue box.

[Jbird87]

I went with the cheapest box, I have some fiberglass resin that I am going to seal it off with and then paint it gray. Here is the homemade bison tube that fits in the slot of the thin PVC tube.

 

I put log together and placed it in a glass of water, and let it set overnight no leaks.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Jbird87

[+Glenn]

I went with the cheapest box, I have some fiberglass resin that I am going to seal it off with and then paint it gray. Here is the homemade bison tube that fits in the slot of the thin PVC tube.

 

 

I put log together and placed it in a glass of water, and let it set overnight no leaks.

 

I see what looks like a seal in the "lid". When you tested I am sure you pushed everything together tightly. You should also run the test again and not push it together snugly and see how to fairs. Not everyone is going to get that thing snug before putting it back. You may want to put something on the shaft to promote a good seal. At least that way there would be a seal no matter how loose someone leaves the cap.

[+Glenn]

Here it is installed.

I'm not a fan of caches that to the untrained eye look like they could be contain live electrical wires.

 

I know that you are not rating this a 5D cache. However, are you prepared for someone taking a screwdriver to the screws on the metal panel. Then using unnatural strength to get in to the box. Then losing the screws in the grass and not being able to put the metal panel back on. Then possibly logging a DNF or NA because the cache is "obviously" missing.

[+uxorious]

Here it is installed.

I'm not a fan of caches that to the untrained eye look like they could be contain live electrical wires.

 

I know that you are not rating this a 5D cache. However, are you prepared for someone taking a screwdriver to the screws on the metal panel. Then using unnatural strength to get in to the box. Then losing the screws in the grass and not being able to put the metal panel back on. Then possibly logging a DNF or NA because the cache is "obviously" missing.

 

He did say the face of the box is held with a magnet. If someone were to take a screwdriver to any of those I've seen, they would know it wasn't screwed on well before they could take the screws out. The face plate would move before the screw would turn.

 

Sounds like it would not take "unnatural strength" to get into the box. That's where he hid instructions on how to access the other part of the cache.

 

I will agree with you, I too am not a fan of caches that to the untrained eye look like they could be contain live electrical wires. However, if they look good to the casual glance, and are obvious fakes with a little checking. (No way for wires to come into them, or a face plate that will come off with a slight tug, etc.) I have no problem with them.

[+Glenn]

Here it is installed.

I'm not a fan of caches that to the untrained eye look like they could be contain live electrical wires.

 

I know that you are not rating this a 5D cache. However, are you prepared for someone taking a screwdriver to the screws on the metal panel. Then using unnatural strength to get in to the box. Then losing the screws in the grass and not being able to put the metal panel back on. Then possibly logging a DNF or NA because the cache is "obviously" missing.

 

He did say the face of the box is held with a magnet. If someone were to take a screwdriver to any of those I've seen, they would know it wasn't screwed on well before they could take the screws out. The face plate would move before the screw would turn.

 

Sounds like it would not take "unnatural strength" to get into the box. That's where he hid instructions on how to access the other part of the cache.

 

I will agree with you, I too am not a fan of caches that to the untrained eye look like they could be contain live electrical wires. However, if they look good to the casual glance, and are obvious fakes with a little checking. (No way for wires to come into them, or a face plate that will come off with a slight tug, etc.) I have no problem with them.

 

I missed reading where the metal panel was held on by magnets. That will cut down on the damage to the cache. Since, unfortunately, these boxes are not an unusual hide be prepared for cachers that will find the empty box and assume that the cache has been taken. Also be prepared for those well meaning cachers who put a replacement cache or log book in the box for you. You may want to put a note card in the box that says something like "You're close but haven't found the cache yet. KEEP LOOKING!"

 

As far as no way for wires to come into. The PVC pipe could be used a conduit for wire. I've seen where wires where brought to a location via a pipe underground and then terminate just like this at a box with a blank panel over it. Later something requiring power would be installed at the site and the blank would be replaced with the proper receptacle. Usually the wires would not be powered but because the were wired in to a circuit breaker it never a guarantee that someone else didn't turn on the circuit breaker and making the wires live. To avoid confusing this with something that might contain live wires you could place a small geocaching sticker on the box.

[Jbird87]

The box contains a note as I stated above, I have also etched a Geocaching emblem on the steel plate, this should make it obvious to any cachers but not to muggles.

As for the seal on the log container I have cut a groove into the opening end and placed an O-ring after thinking that same scenario. If that fails I will make one with a screw on cap. altho the only way rain could get to it is to travel up between the smaller and larger PVC pipe, as the top of both pipes are seeled off.

Looks like my difficulty rating question was the wrong ? Everyone has had some good concerns hopfully I will get time to place the cache this week before our local event cache. That sould give it a great test. Thanks everyone!

[+The A-Team]

altho the only way rain could get to it is to travel up between the smaller and larger PVC pipe, as the top of both pipes are seeled off.

Rain isn't the only way logs can get wet. If the container isn't air-tight, moist air can make its way inside and condense. I see this almost as often as simple leaky containers.

[+Glenn]

The box contains a note as I stated above, I have also etched a Geocaching emblem on the steel plate, this should make it obvious to any cachers but not to muggles.

As for the seal on the log container I have cut a groove into the opening end and placed an O-ring after thinking that same scenario. If that fails I will make one with a screw on cap. altho the only way rain could get to it is to travel up between the smaller and larger PVC pipe, as the top of both pipes are seeled off.

Looks like my difficulty rating question was the wrong ? Everyone has had some good concerns hopfully I will get time to place the cache this week before our local event cache. That sould give it a great test. Thanks everyone!

 

Difficulty ratings are very subjective as they depend heavily on cacher experience, the ever changing environment and some degree to local norms. As long as you get close you'll be alright. I'd place it anywhere between 2 and 3.5. Remember you can always adjust it later if you feel that you to.

 

Yes, you did hit on two very controversial subject here in the forums. The best way to keep a cache dry and caches that look mimic anything electrical. I typically don't hunt a caches that mimic anything electrical or are on transformer boxes because I have seen first hand the damage electricity can do to the human body. But, I'd hunt your cache because I think that you are doing it right. Although your cache looks like something that might contain live wires you have an external visible indication, the etching, that it is indeed the cache and not something that could harm or kill.

[+Glenn]

altho the only way rain could get to it is to travel up between the smaller and larger PVC pipe, as the top of both pipes are seeled off.

Rain isn't the only way logs can get wet. If the container isn't air-tight, moist air can make its way inside and condense. I see this almost as often as simple leaky containers.

Don't forget about people who cache in the rain. I've been guilty of letting a couple of rain drops inside of a cache before. Having a plastic baggie just for the cache log is, IMHO, the best thing to do. Unfortunately it isn't always possible.

[+Totem Clan]

altho the only way rain could get to it is to travel up between the smaller and larger PVC pipe, as the top of both pipes are seeled off.

Rain isn't the only way logs can get wet. If the container isn't air-tight, moist air can make its way inside and condense. I see this almost as often as simple leaky containers.

Don't forget about people who cache in the rain. I've been guilty of letting a couple of rain drops inside of a cache before. Having a plastic baggie just for the cache log is, IMHO, the best thing to do. Unfortunately it isn't always possible.

Baggies hold the condensation in with the log.

[Jbird87]

Log getting wet is of no concern to me the cache is about 2 1/2 min from my house, and I pass its location 5 to 6 times a day. Even if I have to buy the logs that can get wet, it's no problem. I have decided to mount the cache off the ground about a foot high and with no power lines running to the pole at top or bottom; nobody should get it confused for a real power box.

[Jbird87]

Ok just ran a final test on the log container, I placed it in my jeans pocket and ran it threw the washing machine with top only half on. Top stayed on and log remained dry, I am 100% sure there will be no wet logs. This log sheet container design will be the only kind I will use for any cache log from now on. With all the sizes of PVC available and the pricing it will work for any cache.

I have decided to place the cache as it was when I first built it, with only the updated log tube. I want to challenge the mind of the cacher not cater to the mindless. If for some reason I am wrong on its structural integrity I will rebuild it with steel and have fun watching the logs. After all that is why we have a 1 - 5 rating system.

[Jbird87]

I have put the cache out and after 1 day it has a 3/3 finds to favorites ratio. Ill mark it as a success.GC3GTT7

Edited April 12, 2012 by Jbird87

[+The A-Team]

I have put the cache out and after 1 day it has a 3/3 finds to favorites ratio.

Good job!

[wykex3]

Very practical and useful this post.

Thanks for the information.

 

Regards!

Edited April 13, 2012 by wykex3

[+Glenn]

I have put the cache out and after 1 day it has a 3/3 finds to favorites ratio. Ill mark it as a success.GC3GTT7

And long entries too (no TFTCs). Congratz on the hide!

[+Ambient_Skater]

It is a very bad idea to "insert" any part of a cache into the ground - creates a bad impression for others and reinforces the myth of Geocaching being equal to "buried treasure".

While buried caches requiring shovels to retrieve can reinforce this myth, inserting a conduit a few inches into the ground most likely won't. Conduits are regularly inserted into the ground to carry buried wires and the finder probably won't give it a second thought.

[+popokiiti]

We found a cache just like this from outward appearance, and its base was resting on the ground. Nice, obvious and safe. Glad you went for that option. Wishing you many more sneaky hides!

[+Chief301]

Almost all caches in our area are placed above and below ground level.

 

Ummm....where are the rest of them placed?

[Jbird87]

Almost all caches in our area are placed above and below ground level.

 

Ummm....where are the rest of them placed?

Ummm.... The rest of them are only above ground.