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Local Park Director wants to improve geocaching


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I am working with a local Parks and Rec Director about Geocaching in the Nature center near where I live. I have talked with him on several occasions and he has been aware of the hobby and the presence of geocaches in the park.

 

When we were talking about it last time, he was waiting for a better internet connection in the nature center. He intends to get the free Premium membership that Groundspeak offers to Law Enforcement and Land manages. Here is the Link

 

He likes the idea of geocaching. He has mentioned that he has run into several geocachers in the park and they are usually open to talking with him. He is interested in geocaching because he feels that it would improve visitation to the park and other exhibits.

 

What I would like to know is what kind of caches would everyone put out. I was thinking about a puzzle, some regular caches, maybe a multi, maybe even one that requires a boat, which you can get from the nature center if you want. There is a local dog park, but one of our locals is placing a multi there.

 

We have plans to turn the entire park and surrounding caches into a list that is not only available through user generated lists, but also provide a pamphlet that can be available at the Nature center, with not only information, but a list of the caches in the park.

 

What are everyone's thoughts.

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Great to hear a land manager that is actively pursuing geochaching on his property. There are 2 options. One is to get a membership and actually place caches yourself, the other is to contact the local cacher forum and invite the community to place caches. Be sure to include a POC for owner approval, as this will be required by the local reviewer prior to publication. If you want control over the locations and variety, its probably best to hide them yourself. The local reviewer can assist you.

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I might get some flak about this, but I would say that if he really wants to improve geocaching, he should become a geocacher and get his own experience before messing with what others are doing. Micromanaging the activitiy by those that don't have personal experience with it is not likely to improve it.

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I might get some flak about this, but I would say that if he really wants to improve geocaching, he should become a geocacher and get his own experience before messing with what others are doing. Micromanaging the activitiy by those that don't have personal experience with it is not likely to improve it.

 

I actually agree with you, however the other side of that coin is that it's really nice to have a land manager trying to improve caching instead of banning it from the area. Isn't micromanagement better than banishment?

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some say: the more caches the better ?

the more, maybe also some I like ?

I say: the more different you can make them, the broader you can hit,

and make something different people can like,

there is no perfect cache type.

if it is in a special park, and park managers thinks it is great,

offer assistance, as much as you got time, as others allready said, newbees often makes bad caches,

they tend to be mugled more often, and needs more service.

anyway good luck !

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I might get some flak about this, but I would say that if he really wants to improve geocaching, he should become a geocacher and get his own experience before messing with what others are doing. Micromanaging the activitiy by those that don't have personal experience with it is not likely to improve it.

I actually agree with you, however the other side of that coin is that it's really nice to have a land manager trying to improve caching instead of banning it from the area. Isn't micromanagement better than banishment?

I think the fact "improve geocaching" is repeated here is more at point... If the land manager has no decent experience geocaching, how can he say he wants to "improve" it?

I'm with knowschad. While it's great that a land manager is willing to allow geocaches on his property, perhaps he should either go geocaching himself for a while to have more of a direct experience with it, or work with an experienced geocacher and trust their word, giving them more freedom to decide on caching on the land (without micromanaging, that is)...

/2p

 

eta: noticed only 2 instances of 'improve' - "improve visitation to the park" (that I'm totally behind) and "improve geocaching" in the thread title. If it's the former, that at least sounds more reasonable ;)

Edited by thebruce0
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I might get some flak about this, but I would say that if he really wants to improve geocaching, he should become a geocacher and get his own experience before messing with what others are doing. Micromanaging the activitiy by those that don't have personal experience with it is not likely to improve it.

I actually agree with you, however the other side of that coin is that it's really nice to have a land manager trying to improve caching instead of banning it from the area. Isn't micromanagement better than banishment?

I think the fact "improve geocaching" is repeated here is more at point... If the land manager has no decent experience geocaching, how can he say he wants to "improve" it?

I'm with knowschad. While it's great that a land manager is willing to allow geocaches on his property, perhaps he should either go geocaching himself for a while to have more of a direct experience with it, or work with an experienced geocacher and trust their word, giving them more freedom to decide on caching on the land (without micromanaging, that is)...

/2p

 

eta: noticed only 2 instances of 'improve' - "improve visitation to the park" (that I'm totally behind) and "improve geocaching" in the thread title. If it's the former, that at least sounds more reasonable ;)

 

Again, I agree :D

Also, it may be my lack of enough coffee this morning so far, but it seems to me that the OP is either working with or willing to work with the land manager in placing/maintaining these caches. That's good right?

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I might get some flak about this, but I would say that if he really wants to improve geocaching, he should become a geocacher and get his own experience before messing with what others are doing. Micromanaging the activitiy by those that don't have personal experience with it is not likely to improve it.

I agree and that's why we the cachers need to step in and help. I never like to see someone that knows nothing about caching trying to regulate caching. North Dakota DOT and WMA tried a few years ago and hurt caching there a lot.

 

Anyway there is another option. It worked great for the State Parks in North Dakota while we were there. Now it's starting to work here in my local State Park.

Find a cacher or a caching group that is resposible and knowledgable enough about caching to work with/for them a caching representative.

That way you have a person(s) that knows caching helping those that know the land use needs and restrictions.

 

In 2006 when I first approach one of the parks the ND about hiding a cache, they had concerns because cachers had left caches without premission before. I offered to help them with this and we ended up removing some caches in bad location and adding others in good locations.

 

The Parks Department was about to ban caching in all the ND parks. At about the same time some other cacher in other parts of the state start doing about the same thing. This made the folks at the state take notice. Seeing what caching done correctly could do for them they changed their minds.

 

In 2009 the State Parks Department start giving geocaching lessons in their parks and activly working with the caching groups across the state. By 2010 they had a representative/ranger on staff to promote caching. By 2011 the each park took over ownership of the caches in their parks and are now an active member of the geocaching community.

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I might get some flak about this, but I would say that if he really wants to improve geocaching, he should become a geocacher and get his own experience before messing with what others are doing. Micromanaging the activitiy by those that don't have personal experience with it is not likely to improve it.

 

+1

 

I think he is correct that Geocaching will increase foot traffic through the park. There is a free nature park near me that I've visited several times to go caching that I would never have known about had there not been caches there. I even became a free member of the park and might be doing some work with them in the future.

 

If you really want to get him involved you might want to invite him out caching with you. Take him to some good caches (maybe ones you've already found and know are nice) so he can really see what it's all about. Stress the guidelines for caches (i.e. the proximity rules, not burying caches, nothing dangerous inside, family friendly, CITO, etc...) to show him that it is a great way for everyone to get out and enjoy the world.

 

Finally, to answer your question, I would hide regular sized caches that are somewhat easy to find. You don't want people tearing up the nature center property looking for a micro. Using the signage at the nature center to make an easy 2 stage multi would be a great way to have people stop and check things out.

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I posted this in another thread but I'll repost it here as it is on topic.

 

Because of this approaching park managment about caching can be a great way to not only get your cache going but get some great tips for other caches on their land.

 

Juat last weekend I was talking with the Naturalist at the local state park about the CITO we are having there. We got to talking about cache types and I metioned Earthcaches. She pointed me to a feature in the park I had never seen. Now they will have one more reason for folks to come to their park and cachers will have one more cache to find.

 

This was after just a couple of emails a phove call and one face to face. At the meeting she voiced concerns about a cache place on the edge of the park that was on the neighboring land owner's property. I told her I would email the owner because I knew him. Within 24 hours one of her biggest concern about geocaching was gone. I also pointed her to the local reveiwer whom she will be working with to set restrictions on cache in area with endangered spieces so she knows we won't be causing problems.

 

She even emailed me over the weekend and ask if they could give out prizes to cacher that show up for the CITO.

 

Become a useful resource for them and both of us come out winners.

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Midpeninsula Open Space District, in California, reached out to a local geocaching group Geocachers of the Bay Area for involvement. The caches were painted up, stocked and placed by geocachers, within the guidlines developed by the OSD. Finders (and collectors of stamps in a passport booklet) are awarded Geocoins or cache tags. Their page on Geocaching can be found here.

 

In the past I've often eyeballed these huge parks but was less adventurous about visiting them. Even as an avid geocacher. Now I spend my weekends enjoying myself on spectacular hikes with magnificent vistas, wildlife and wildflowers in the OSD parks. It's great to have parks, but greater still to make good use of them. I'd say the involvement of responsible geocachers really can be a boon to a park.

 

I recommend reaching out to a local geocaching group, rather than the park manager placing caches.

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I might get some flak about this, but I would say that if he really wants to improve geocaching, he should become a geocacher and get his own experience before messing with what others are doing. Micromanaging the activitiy by those that don't have personal experience with it is not likely to improve it.

I actually agree with you, however the other side of that coin is that it's really nice to have a land manager trying to improve caching instead of banning it from the area. Isn't micromanagement better than banishment?

I think the fact "improve geocaching" is repeated here is more at point... If the land manager has no decent experience geocaching, how can he say he wants to "improve" it?

I'm with knowschad. While it's great that a land manager is willing to allow geocaches on his property, perhaps he should either go geocaching himself for a while to have more of a direct experience with it, or work with an experienced geocacher and trust their word, giving them more freedom to decide on caching on the land (without micromanaging, that is)...

/2p

 

eta: noticed only 2 instances of 'improve' - "improve visitation to the park" (that I'm totally behind) and "improve geocaching" in the thread title. If it's the former, that at least sounds more reasonable ;)

 

Again, I agree :D

Also, it may be my lack of enough coffee this morning so far, but it seems to me that the OP is either working with or willing to work with the land manager in placing/maintaining these caches. That's good right?

 

OK, I know I am not one of the GEO-Gods with 10,000 finds. But I have been going out and finding caches and learning about good hides and bad hides. Heck I even had one of my hides muggled twice, so I archived it after letting my reviewer know.

 

Also notice that I said I would be working with him on this. He is not just going out and doing this himself. Also note: I am a premium member myself. So he would not be going out and doing this blindly without help.

 

YEs I even took him to show him one of the ones that are already in the park. He said that he never knew it was there and obviously cachers have done a good job with stealth.

 

I have at least two others that are willing to help me. They too are premium members. (But not at the high find rate) We enjoy the game, cache when we can, and try to improve.

 

The Director and I have also talked about CITO events and things like that.

 

How are we looking to "improve" geocaching in the Park. By placing more caches. By making puzzle caches. By offering varying levels of difficulty and terrain. Making the caches in the park available for all levels and families to find if they are interested.

 

We discuss this because the idea of having geocaches just randomly placed in the area with no regard to trails or structures can be prevented, allowing for more caches and a better family friendly environment. In the day of budget cuts this be a way too boost the usage of the nature center. More visitors means that the director can save his budget easier. This is a great park. I enjoy taking my kids and scouts there.

 

So instead of jumping on the thought of how this could go wrong, how about ways to make it better. Geocachers will be helping. what are your suggestions on types of caches to place.

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OK, I know I am not one of the GEO-Gods with 10,000 finds. But I have been going out and finding caches and learning about good hides and bad hides. Heck I even had one of my hides muggled twice, so I archived it after letting my reviewer know.

 

Also notice that I said I would be working with him on this. He is not just going out and doing this himself. Also note: I am a premium member myself. So he would not be going out and doing this blindly without help.

 

YEs I even took him to show him one of the ones that are already in the park. He said that he never knew it was there and obviously cachers have done a good job with stealth.

 

I have at least two others that are willing to help me. They too are premium members. (But not at the high find rate) We enjoy the game, cache when we can, and try to improve.

 

The Director and I have also talked about CITO events and things like that.

 

How are we looking to "improve" geocaching in the Park. By placing more caches. By making puzzle caches. By offering varying levels of difficulty and terrain. Making the caches in the park available for all levels and families to find if they are interested.

 

We discuss this because the idea of having geocaches just randomly placed in the area with no regard to trails or structures can be prevented, allowing for more caches and a better family friendly environment. In the day of budget cuts this be a way too boost the usage of the nature center. More visitors means that the director can save his budget easier. This is a great park. I enjoy taking my kids and scouts there.

 

So instead of jumping on the thought of how this could go wrong, how about ways to make it better. Geocachers will be helping. what are your suggestions on types of caches to place.

 

Jeez...I thought most of the replies to your post were rather positive. And for the record, having 10,000 finds does not necessarily mean you know what it takes to make a single GOOD hide.

 

I think you would be hard pressed to find ANYONE here that would object to you having an open dialog with a land manager with regards to caching in a nature center. I think you are totally going about this the correct way, especially where you mentioned putting caches near trails. That is a great idea. I don't know anything about this particular nature center but I know a lot of them frown upon people wandering too far off trail and potentially causing damage to delicate vegetation.

 

Another thing I just thought of is the fact that there might be grant money available from the state where the nature center could purchase GPS receivers and allow visitors to borrow them and go Geocaching on their own. I've seen it happen before but I'd have no idea where to check to see.

 

As far as improving the Geocaching experience, here's a part of my original reply:

 

...I would hide regular sized caches that are somewhat easy to find. You don't want people tearing up the nature center property looking for a micro. Using the signage at the nature center to make an easy 2 stage multi would be a great way to have people stop and check things out.
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I think it was your use of the phrase, "improving geocaching" that raised my hackles a bit. To my mind, geocaching is just fine the way it is (or perhaps the way it used to be?). I'm thrilled that the park management is encouraging geocaching. Its just that I wish that parks would simply decide that geocaching is a good thing for their parks, and then step away. But all too often they feel the need to supervise it too much.

 

However, that is saying nothing bad about your attempt to help a manager that has already decided to manage geocaching in the park. That he is looking for experienced help is a lot better than trying to do it without your input.

 

I see that there is at least one North Carolina geocaching group (NCGO). I would strongly recommend that you approach them first and see if they have any ideas and/or experience to share. I'm guessing you will find overwhelming help there.

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+1

 

My reply wasn't meant as a negative, just a point of clarification. Everything you said is a Good Thing, and like knowshad said, it was just the use "improve geocaching" in the title that threw me off as well ;) "...in the park" was clearly what was meant, which is absolutely wonderful, and the responses here are all great. :)

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I apologize if I came off harsh, but it seemed like everyone was saying that I needed to sign up, and he needed to get out and cache while paying for his own. Groundspeak provides him with the access and info free of charge. I was looking for suggestions about what kind of things to put out there to keep it fun and family oriented. But also to present a challange to some if they want it.

 

Here is what I was thinking about doing for one: Tour the nature center, including the underground cave, looking for clues and hints to figure out the components of the coordinates for a puzzle cache. This could be things like, what is the average length of the BIG rattle snake on display. How many albino snakes are in the cage. How many stuffed raccoons are on display? They take these numbers and figure out the coordinates.

 

Maybe another would be having to watch a planetarium show, or walk around the science center: How many solar panels are out back behind the science center. How many teeth are on the giant mouth, how many floors to the fake hospital? How many body parts can be removed on the giant operation game?

 

There is also a train out on the property that people can ride on. Plenty of fishing. Arbor swings. fields for games, hiking trails and biking trails. The area is constantly under improvement. They just installed a new kayak landing dock.

 

I was thinking about placing a harder/more difficult cache for those that like a little adventure, while keeping some easier for families with younger children.

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If you are going to do a puzzle cache, make sure that the information the cacher is seeking is readily available and not subject to change very often. A big wooden or metal sign that is permanent is great. Have the seeker look for info such as: What year was the nature park established? How many acres make up the park? What is the average temperature of the cave? That sort of thing. Or counting a certain amount of fixed objects (like the solar panels) is a GREAT idea. Your cache page could look something like this:

 

Welcome to The Coolsville Nature Center. (BLAH BLAH BLAH Talk about the center and its various attractions and hours of operation and anything else a cacher might be interested in BLAH BLAH BLAH) The posted coordinates will take you to a sign. The final coordinates are: N45 01.AAA W092 50.BBB where AAA = The year the nature center was established minus 1875 and BBB = The number of acres in the nature center plus 42.

A little simple field math and the cacher has the final coordinates AND they learned a little something about the nature center. Honestly this is my favorite type of cache.

 

On the other hand, counting the number of animals in a cage could vary from day to day (depending on random things like vet visits, being out visiting a school, additions of new animals, deaths of animals, etc...) and thus would either have a potential cacher getting the wrong info OR make the cache owner have to constantly update the cache page. And if the cacher is getting the wrong info he might end up looking for a cache in the wrong part of the park...which is something you do not want at all.

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If you are going to do a puzzle cache, make sure that the information the cacher is seeking is readily available and not subject to change very often. A big wooden or metal sign that is permanent is great. Have the seeker look for info such as: What year was the nature park established? How many acres make up the park? What is the average temperature of the cave? That sort of thing. Or counting a certain amount of fixed objects (like the solar panels) is a GREAT idea. Your cache page could look something like this:

 

Welcome to The Coolsville Nature Center. (BLAH BLAH BLAH Talk about the center and its various attractions and hours of operation and anything else a cacher might be interested in BLAH BLAH BLAH) The posted coordinates will take you to a sign. The final coordinates are: N45 01.AAA W092 50.BBB where AAA = The year the nature center was established minus 1875 and BBB = The number of acres in the nature center plus 42.

A little simple field math and the cacher has the final coordinates AND they learned a little something about the nature center. Honestly this is my favorite type of cache.

 

On the other hand, counting the number of animals in a cage could vary from day to day (depending on random things like vet visits, being out visiting a school, additions of new animals, deaths of animals, etc...) and thus would either have a potential cacher getting the wrong info OR make the cache owner have to constantly update the cache page. And if the cacher is getting the wrong info he might end up looking for a cache in the wrong part of the park...which is something you do not want at all.

 

I think that one of the things that would not change it the number of GIANT Eastern Diamond Back Rattle Snakes. The head on this thing is like 6 inches long. Not the kind of thing you take to a school.

 

But yes I do like your ideas. I will have to check on the night caches. THey allow camping there and there are usually campers parked in the area. The other part of the park that they are responsible for has a night cache. you have to follow reflectors and then find a cool host. MetalVamp's Night Time Cache

 

I am going ot have to go out and start looking around and start getting some ideas. Gonna take some time in the nature center and science center. Maybe even a planetarium show.

 

Once everything is done we will go through and set up lists, so all the caches can be found easier.

 

For a more difficult one we were thinking of making a floating cache, out in the middle of the pond. :ph34r::anibad:

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There is also the chance to complete a few challanges along the way if you are planning on going.

 

Time to Shine

 

These Boots are made for Walkin

 

Stand up for Art

 

Fountain Photo Fantastic Two locations in the future

 

And Really a bunch more.

 

There is also a local Dog Park, you can bring your Geo-Pup and enjoy the day

Edited by ScoutDadNC
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I apologize if I came off harsh, but it seemed like everyone was saying that I needed to sign up, and he needed to get out and cache while paying for his own. Groundspeak provides him with the access and info free of charge. I was looking for suggestions about what kind of things to put out there to keep it fun and family oriented. But also to present a challange to some if they want it.

 

Here is what I was thinking about doing for one: Tour the nature center, including the underground cave, looking for clues and hints to figure out the components of the coordinates for a puzzle cache. This could be things like, what is the average length of the BIG rattle snake on display. How many albino snakes are in the cage. How many stuffed raccoons are on display? They take these numbers and figure out the coordinates.

 

Maybe another would be having to watch a planetarium show, or walk around the science center: How many solar panels are out back behind the science center. How many teeth are on the giant mouth, how many floors to the fake hospital? How many body parts can be removed on the giant operation game?

 

There is also a train out on the property that people can ride on. Plenty of fishing. Arbor swings. fields for games, hiking trails and biking trails. The area is constantly under improvement. They just installed a new kayak landing dock.

 

I was thinking about placing a harder/more difficult cache for those that like a little adventure, while keeping some easier for families with younger children.

 

Sounds like you have some wonderful ideas. I like that this guy is interested in geocaching and willing to work with you. If there are not too many geocaches in the area, you've got a great opportunity here to put some quality caches out.

 

I would suggest lots of good-sized traditionals with room for trading. Perhaps you could name them after important people in the area or perhaps animals/birds in the park. I've got a series of bird caches I've put out, each with a page of educational information. I've picked locations where cachers are likely to see that particular bird. They ahve been well-received. You get a number from each cache and all these numbers lead you to a final cache.

 

If you've got the time and inclination, maybe some special camo jobs?

 

So traditionals are good, these are the most popular. I like your idea of some puzzle caches where you have to gather information to find the final coords. You've got some excellent idea, I would do a few of these.

 

I like the idea of some more challenging ones too. I"m not sure what the area is like, but putting caches at good viewpoints are always popular.

Edited by The_Incredibles_
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Traditionals will get your best turnout, a good puzzle or multi will generally garner better logs and photos as folks have to put more effort into finding them.

 

The other thing to consider is fees. You mentioned a planetarium show, is it free? You're much less likely to get finds on a cache that requires a fee at any stage to find it. Just something to keep in mind...

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I adopted a cache that was placed inside of a local park's nature center. I met the director and got to talking about caching. She wanted more hidden on their trail system, so I hid 25 caches along the trails. We hiked the trails and she approved the placements. It has drawn many cachers to hike the trails and spring has just gotten started. We also decided to do a couple of Intro classes. The last one had about 50 non-cachers come. The director then asked me to do the event once a quarter. When some cachers asked for me to do a class on how to hide the director was more than happy to let me hold it there with no rental charge. I've now offered to hold a CITO event to help with any project she may need volunteers for. So definitively work with them. It sounds like a great opportunity. And I can tell you that it is very rewarding to help out.

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Perhaps you could try to help set up a meeting with the park director and several active/prominent cachers in the local community for some input and maybe even have them hide caches in areas approved by the park?

 

A diverse selection of caches is usually best - mix up the sizes, containers, and difficulties. Don't go crazy spamming the park with caches. If the park direct wants lots of caches to bring people in that's fine, but even in a cache-rich area you should still try to find good locations rather than "the first available spot 528 ft from the last cache". 20 well-placed caches is better than 25 crammed in for maximum saturation.

 

Use Multi and Mystery especially to highlight educational stuff. They will generally be done less so make them noteworthy.

 

Mostly Traditional and try to work in a Letterbox Hybrid Cache for the heck of it.

 

Don't get complacent about the muggle factor - despite efforts to promote geocaching there, many visitors will still be probably be unaware of caching/caches.

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GREAT IDEAS. Keep em coming. I am working on a brochure to present to the Director so he will have an idea of what the information would look like.

 

Have you contacted the NCGO yet? I really would like to stress the importance of at least letting them know what you are planning on.

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The local group put together a "skills" trail in a local park. It is on a loop system and is geared towards showing a variety of containers and hide styles. Additionally, each cache page lists at least one skill that can be learned from that cache. We always recommend doing that trail for scouts (boys and girls), families and beginners to get aquainted with the variety of the hobby. It is also just a great group of caches for anyone. Here is a link for the 1st cache, which is at the parking area, and I know many cachers that like to check their new phones and gps devices at the accuracy post. A professional surveyor marked the spot. When we first put it out, I fully expected a few of the local "my GPS is the gold standard" crowd to say that the post was off a little HA! That first cache just shows a new cacher that you don't just walk to a site, lift your foot, and voila!!!! there is a cache. There are many factors involved in GPS accuracy. If your curious about the project, you can email me, or look for nearby caches from the link to read about the others on the trail. I am having trouble with one that keeps getting broken, I have two prototypes in the works to attempt to fix the one cache.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC250JF

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I have had a relationship with my local park directors since 2004. They immediately recognized the value of GeoTourism.

 

One of the things they asked me to do was teach a Geocaching 100 course (followed-up by a Geo101 later) for folks that use their parks and civic centers regularly (read that as mosty seniors and stay at home moms) that know nothing about geocaching. They basically sign up and you hold their hand getting set up with user accounts, explain the basics, and then take them on a cache outing in a nearby park.

 

They were actually gonna pay me too.... But the course didn't get much interest and we didn't make the minimum class size of 10 people.

 

Maybe that would work for you.

 

GREAT IDEAS. Keep em coming. I am working on a brochure to present to the Director so he will have an idea of what the information would look like.

 

Have you contacted the NCGO yet? I really would like to stress the importance of at least letting them know what you are planning on.

 

Yep. I second that one. NCGO are a great group and very active in dealing with land managers.

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I have had a relationship with my local park directors since 2004. They immediately recognized the value of GeoTourism.

 

One of the things they asked me to do was teach a Geocaching 100 course (followed-up by a Geo101 later) for folks that use their parks and civic centers regularly (read that as mosty seniors and stay at home moms) that know nothing about geocaching. They basically sign up and you hold their hand getting set up with user accounts, explain the basics, and then take them on a cache outing in a nearby park.

 

They were actually gonna pay me too.... But the course didn't get much interest and we didn't make the minimum class size of 10 people.

 

Maybe that would work for you.

 

GREAT IDEAS. Keep em coming. I am working on a brochure to present to the Director so he will have an idea of what the information would look like.

 

Have you contacted the NCGO yet? I really would like to stress the importance of at least letting them know what you are planning on.

 

Yep. I second that one. NCGO are a great group and very active in dealing with land managers.

I sent a message to the NCGO earlier today

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