Owner wiped out all logs for geocoin

January 30, 2012

Just a quick vent... slightly annoyed today...

The owner of *a geocoin* decided to wipe out all previous logs for this coin and was ever so nice to put up this message on the coin page

Current GOAL

This Geocoin is under New Ownership as of 12/06/2011, and starting a new journey

This Awesome Coin is now under new ownership with a new activation date, all previous logs to the activation date, have been deleted to Start this coin out with a clean slate. If your log was deleted, I am very Sorry, it is not personal. I request that you Please do not post any notes, because they too will be deleted. Thank you for your understanding.

I logged it a few years ago at an event and since it was in a binder I am sure he wiped out a bunch of finds.

There I am done :rolleyes:

Edited January 31, 2012 by Eartha
remove reference #

3.6k · January 30, 2012

Sadly it's his coin to do as he wishes even if it disappoints oodles of folks who came in contact with it even before he was aware such a coin existed. It just speaks poorly of the individual's sense of courtesy or even civility.

January 30, 2012

It just speaks poorly of the individual's sense of courtesy or even civility.

I do hope the owner will realize that. I rather enjoy collecting coin icons even if has been a while since I have the ability to geocache or participate in the forums. Too bad it was a log deletion notice that brought me back here :blink:

Edited January 30, 2012 by teamhaynes

1.1k · January 31, 2012

Perhaps that is a request/suggestion that we can post to GS. A coin is activated for the first time by a "First" owner. There could be a checkbox that says

"can delete all previous logs" or "previous logs will move to new owner" on an adoption.

When we see this the first thing that comes to mind is the new owner does not have a clue about the meaning of travelers.

What a shame..... :tongue:

January 31, 2012

No, a new owner of a coin cannot just wipe clean the logbook of the coin.

A trackable is the same as a cache.

When someone has moved or just seen the coin or TB and noted the number to look it up on the geocaching pages and then made the effort to log it, the log should never be deleted.

Unless a log is not conform rules of geocaching.com.

You can look it up: guidelines on Log Deletion.

If there is a reviewer, you can ask him to unarchive the logs.

I know one: Dominus Youp. If you write him an e-mail thru his profile, he will get them all back.

January 31, 2012

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I will write an e-mail to the new owner of the coin explaining why he can't just delete logs for a trackable or cache.

January 31, 2012

No, a new owner of a coin cannot just wipe clean the logbook of the coin.

A trackable is the same as a cache.

When someone has moved or just seen the coin or TB and noted the number to look it up on the geocaching pages and then made the effort to log it, the log should never be deleted.

Unless a log is not conform rules of geocaching.com.

You can look it up: guidelines on Log Deletion.

If there is a reviewer, you can ask him to unarchive the logs.

I know one: Dominus Youp. If you write him an e-mail thru his profile, he will get them all back.

Thanks Ruud4d, that is really good to know. I only have a couple logged yet but I look forward to building up by logged coins and TBs. I know I would be very disappointed to have a log wiped off just because someone chose to start a new goal. I'm putting this info where I can find it again.

January 31, 2012

Wow.. All logs are restored... Didn't expect that to happen. Thanks all...

Funny thing, I forgot who originally owned the coin and seeing it restored is all the more special. The coin originally belonged to DJ.J Rock who used to be quite a prolific poster and my old neighbor.

Thanks again all.

January 31, 2012

Spoke to soon... all logs were wiped out again just a few minutes ago

January 31, 2012

Sent coin owner a message pointing out this thread.. Maybe I will get lucky and have this restored again. Not new cacher (has 800 + trackables logged so I would think they get the idea of how trackables work)

2k · January 31, 2012

Hi everyone,, I am sorry this is happening to one of my old coins,, I reciently got a divorce and had to move. i had to part with alot of my stuff ,Alot of my coins were included in that, My coins helped me get my apartment. this buyer of my coin has decided to wipe the coin clean and that is very sad. I dont think i can do any thing on my end of it. but I would like to express my sorrows as my old coins have quite the history on them. and its ashame that this coin is being deleted. Im still around, Even tho i havent been able to collect anymore, but i miss it here and may return some day. luv you old friends!

8k · January 31, 2012

Sadly it's his coin to do as he wishes even if it disappoints oodles of folks who came in contact with it even before he was aware such a coin existed. It just speaks poorly of the individual's sense of courtesy or even civility.

Completely disagree here Droo. It is his coin to do with as he wishes and I really don't think that courtesy or civility fits in here. There are instances in life where items are bought and sold and no where does a statement like this exist. Maybe I should talk about one that jumps to mind. My parents were trying to sell their home. A neighbor came over to tell my 85 y/o mother to think of the neighbors before she decides who to sell to. No one asked her for her wishes/veto power like they were asking her when another neighbor sold to a family of literally juvenile deliquents. Is it common courtesy to think of neighbor's wishes when trying to sell your home? Why are coins any different? If I buy a house that some kid put their hand print and initials in the cement sidewalk do I have to save that chunk of driveway so their mark lasts forever? After all it is a history of the house and previous occupants. If I buy a car with airbrushed flames on it shouldn't I be able to have it repainted even though the artist worked hours on it? (I did see a flamed out ptcruiser a few years ago I would have liked. :laughing: ) Sure I can and without any reservations. Again why are coins different?

I should say here that I have bought several activated coins over the years and haven't deleted any logs. For the most part I don't care. However, I have deleted logs on a few coins I activated myself when I didn't think they were appropiate.

No, a new owner of a coin cannot just wipe clean the logbook of the coin.

A trackable is the same as a cache.

When someone has moved or just seen the coin or TB and noted the number to look it up on the geocaching pages and then made the effort to log it, the log should never be deleted.

Unless a log is not conform rules of geocaching.com.

You can look it up: guidelines on Log Deletion.

I completely disagree here also. I have read that link several times since it was posted and no where does it say that a log should never be deleted unless it completely conforms. What it does say is to use your discretion "To this end, you have the power to delete logs. Use your powers carefully."

I know that it is disappointing to have a log deleted especially to the icon hos but in the end it is their coin to do as they see fit.

January 31, 2012

Sadly it's his coin to do as he wishes even if it disappoints oodles of folks who came in contact with it even before he was aware such a coin existed. It just speaks poorly of the individual's sense of courtesy or even civility.

Completely disagree here Droo. It is his coin to do with as he wishes and I really don't think that courtesy or civility fits in here. There are instances in life where items are bought and sold and no where does a statement like this exist. Maybe I should talk about one that jumps to mind. My parents were trying to sell their home. A neighbor came over to tell my 85 y/o mother to think of the neighbors before she decides who to sell to. No one asked her for her wishes/veto power like they were asking her when another neighbor sold to a family of literally juvenile deliquents. Is it common courtesy to think of neighbor's wishes when trying to sell your home? Why are coins any different? If I buy a house that some kid put their hand print and initials in the cement sidewalk do I have to save that chunk of driveway so their mark lasts forever? After all it is a history of the house and previous occupants. If I buy a car with airbrushed flames on it shouldn't I be able to have it repainted even though the artist worked hours on it? (I did see a flamed out ptcruiser a few years ago I would have liked. ) Sure I can and without any reservations. Again why are coins different?

I should say here that I have bought several activated coins over the years and haven't deleted any logs. For the most part I don't care. However, I have deleted logs on a few coins I activated myself when I didn't think they were appropiate.

This analogy isn't really applicable to the situation at hand unfortunately. Logging a find on a geocache, and having to live next door to someone are completely different things, not even remotely comparable. What is up for comparison is the fact that a number of people actually discovered a coin. The changing of ownership does not change the fact that those people discovered the coin. Now, if your Moms neighbor had asked her to not delete the memories of people who had lived in the house prior to it being sold, then I could see the comparison. You can't change who lived in a house though, no more than you can change who discovered a coin. Owners will change, but the discoveries do not.

8k · January 31, 2012

Sadly it's his coin to do as he wishes even if it disappoints oodles of folks who came in contact with it even before he was aware such a coin existed. It just speaks poorly of the individual's sense of courtesy or even civility.

Completely disagree here Droo. It is his coin to do with as he wishes and I really don't think that courtesy or civility fits in here. There are instances in life where items are bought and sold and no where does a statement like this exist. Maybe I should talk about one that jumps to mind. My parents were trying to sell their home. A neighbor came over to tell my 85 y/o mother to think of the neighbors before she decides who to sell to. No one asked her for her wishes/veto power like they were asking her when another neighbor sold to a family of literally juvenile deliquents. Is it common courtesy to think of neighbor's wishes when trying to sell your home? Why are coins any different? If I buy a house that some kid put their hand print and initials in the cement sidewalk do I have to save that chunk of driveway so their mark lasts forever? After all it is a history of the house and previous occupants. If I buy a car with airbrushed flames on it shouldn't I be able to have it repainted even though the artist worked hours on it? (I did see a flamed out ptcruiser a few years ago I would have liked. ) Sure I can and without any reservations. Again why are coins different?

I should say here that I have bought several activated coins over the years and haven't deleted any logs. For the most part I don't care. However, I have deleted logs on a few coins I activated myself when I didn't think they were appropiate.

This analogy isn't really applicable to the situation at hand unfortunately. Logging a find on a geocache, and having to live next door to someone are completely different things, not even remotely comparable. What is up for comparison is the fact that a number of people actually discovered a coin. The changing of ownership does not change the fact that those people discovered the coin. Now, if your Moms neighbor had asked her to not delete the memories of people who had lived in the house prior to it being sold, then I could see the comparison. You can't change who lived in a house though, no more than you can change who discovered a coin. Owners will change, but the discoveries do not.

Ok maybe that example isn't quite applicable but how about the prints in concrete of the previous residents? You can't change who lived in the house previously but you don't have to keep up a sign that they had lived there and who they were.

January 31, 2012

A coin has a trackingnumber so it can be tracked and discovered once activated. In fact you agree on that as an owner of a coin. If you show the coin to people, they can note the number and write a log.

When you buy an activated coin, you agree on that as well.you accept that it has a history. As a buyer of your mothers house, you agree that someone has lived n it before you.

When there is someone who saved the tracking number, he has proof that he saw the coin and could log it again.

The new owner is accepting discover logs on the coin. So he does agree that people can log it when they have seen it. So why is he denying that fun to the other people who saw the coin before he got it?

If you read a little further, you see Groundspeak sees a coin the same as a cache. And when you addopt a cache, you don't delete the logs before you got it.

Or do you?

January 31, 2012

Use your powers carefully. The complete set of logs tells the story of the cache or that Trackable Item. Once it is deleted, you cannot restore it. You also have the power to permanently encrypt a log, which is a nice alternative to deletion.

You see? Cache or that Track able Item.

8k · January 31, 2012

I will state this again in case it was missed--I haven't deleted any logs of the coins I have adopted. I have deleted a couple of logs on coins I have activated myself that I deemed inappropiate after emailing the person and asking them to change it. I have not deleted any logs after adopting the two caches that I have adopted and in fact left the original owner's name in the title. I hope that is clear.

However, just because a person has the tracking number of the coin does NOT mean they have actually seen the coin. Many people at events have a list of the tracking numbers of their coins that they have at the vent. I had a coin given to me and I still get discoveries because the previous owner left that number on their list they handed out. The coins in question were in my binder and not at those events. I didn't even delete those logs.

I read the entire page and what I see is that they are saying use the log deletion power wisely.

I don't know why this coin owner is deleting the logs. The OP is venting that he is upset that this is being done. I can sympathize with that but I also think that it is the new owner's right to with their coins as they see fit. It's not something I have done or may ever do but I still think they have that right.

January 31, 2012

I'll weigh in on this issue, because it is very interesting to me. When you own a coin, what you own is a metal disk in your posession. There is a tracking number on the coin, but is the number itself owned by anyone? The number on the coin acts as a key to open files on Grounspeak's servers. Surely the coin owner does not also own Grounspeak's computers. Thus, the coin owner has no real claim to the logs and Groundspeak can treat tham any way it chooses.

My own personal feeling is that coin logs are historical records and should only be deleted in very special circumstances such as if a law were being broken or the information in the logs might hurt someone. I would like to see Groundpseak freeze all coin logs after a certain period of time such as six months and they could only be deleted on a case by case basis. I buy activated coins from time to time and so far I have never deleted any logs.

5.8k · January 31, 2012

Perhaps that is a request/suggestion that we can post to GS. A coin is activated for the first time by a "First" owner. There could be a checkbox that says

"can delete all previous logs" or "previous logs will move to new owner" on an adoption.

When we see this the first thing that comes to mind is the new owner does not have a clue about the meaning of travelers.

What a shame.....

Hmmm...perhaps there might be a way that a transfer of ownership could come with the option to assign a new TB number, protecting all the old logs...giving the new TB numbera clean slate and leave the logs assigned to the old TB number. That's something that would have to go into the feature suggestions though.

8.8k · January 31, 2012

I have removed the reference number from the original post. Apparently, several people thought it was their duty to contact the owner about this. If it's not your coin, or your log, leave it alone.

Please do not contact the geocoin owner if you are not involved. It has been discussed here many times that in the long run, it is the geocoin owner's choice whether to keep old logs on an activated coin. It's no fun to lose a log, and it's not the nicest thing to do, but it is their choice.

Thank you.

January 31, 2012

I will state this again in case it was missed--I haven't deleted any logs of the coins I have adopted. I have deleted a couple of logs on coins I have activated myself that I deemed inappropiate after emailing the person and asking them to change it. I have not deleted any logs after adopting the two caches that I have adopted and in fact left the original owner's name in the title. I hope that is clear.

That is clear. I was not attacking you in any way. Not your behaviour but of any secondhand-coin-buyer who deletes logs. This is NOT PERSONAL. This is a general discusion. OK, it started as a personal discusion.

However, just because a person has the tracking number of the coin does NOT mean they have actually seen the coin. Many people at events have a list of the tracking numbers of their coins that they have at the vent. I had a coin given to me and I still get discoveries because the previous owner left that number on their list they handed out. The coins in question were in my binder and not at those events. I didn't even delete those logs.

I read the entire page and what I see is that they are saying use the log deletion power wisely.

I know of owners who circulated lists of trackingnumbers. That's not wrong. But when a cacher has only seen the number, not the trackable itself, he or she should not log it.

The owner of a trackable who knows for sure that a log came from someone who didn't see the actual trackable, can immediately delete that log after informing the logger. Or if you see that a log was clearly a mistake, you can perform the same action.

Example: I had logs coming in on an activated coin that had never been seen by anyone. I wrote them before I deleted the log saying there was probably a symbol missread. I got the answer that was indeed the issue. Two people logging from the same missread number. They had no problem with the deletion. I think that's what's meant be using your powers wisely.

If your not sure as an owner, you can contact the logger and ask for an explanation. If it is valid, leave the logs. If not sure, leave the logs.

When you can folks do a favour by letting them have their icon, let them.

But when a owner is deleting valid logs, I think that's not done.

I think we are thinking alike here.

I don't know why this coin owner is deleting the logs. The OP is venting that he is upset that this is being done. I can sympathize with that but I also think that it is the new owner's right to with their coins as they see fit. It's not something I have done or may ever do but I still think they have that right.

And here we are not thinking alike. I don't think it's the owners right to do as he likes.

You gave an example with a house, I will give you an example with a car.

When you buy a car and go out driving it, you have to obey the rules (unless you are on your own property). The fact that you own the car, doesn't give you the right to do as you see fit.

There are no terms of use when you activate a coin. Maybe there should be, because the trackingnumber stays property of Groundspeak and they can deactivate it.

And I think that maybe they should explain good trackable ownership somewhere.

This is an opinion like what you wrote is an opinion. I totaly respect that. Thank you for sharing it.

I'll weigh in on this issue, because it is very interesting to me. When you own a coin, what you own is a metal disk in your posession. There is a tracking number on the coin, but is the number itself owned by anyone? The number on the coin acts as a key to open files on Grounspeak's servers. Surely the coin owner does not also own Grounspeak's computers. Thus, the coin owner has no real claim to the logs and Groundspeak can treat tham any way it chooses.

My own personal feeling is that coin logs are historical records and should only be deleted in very special circumstances such as if a law were being broken or the information in the logs might hurt someone. I would like to see Groundpseak freeze all coin logs after a certain period of time such as six months and they could only be deleted on a case by case basis. I buy activated coins from time to time and so far I have never deleted any logs.

I think this is a good idea. You just got yourself a +1 from me

January 31, 2012

I have removed the reference number from the original post. Apparently, several people thought it was their duty to contact the owner about this. If it's not your coin, or your log, leave it alone.

Please do not contact the geocoin owner if you are not involved. It has been discussed here many times that in the long run, it is the geocoin owner's choice whether to keep old logs on an activated coin. It's no fun to lose a log, and it's not the nicest thing to do, but it is their choice.

Thank you.

I'm sorry Eartha. Won't happen again.

January 31, 2012

I forgot to say something I wanted to say.

Grounspeak is not a police officer. So they will not correct anyone who does something like this.

But you can ask them to restore the logs. I suggest you do that. Write an e-mail to contact @ geocaching.com.

January 31, 2012

I forgot to say something I wanted to say.

Grounspeak is not a police officer. So they will not correct anyone who does something like this.

But you can ask them to restore the logs. I suggest you do that. Write an e-mail to contact @ geocaching.com.

I think you should let this rest! Eartha has spoken and according to the guidelines, whatever an owner of a geocoin wants to do with their coin is completely up to them! End of story!

January 31, 2012

Just as when someone fines a cache, they are rewarded with a smiley face. When someone moves a Geocoin or TB they are rewarded with the icon.

I can see this may cause more trackable to end up going missing. Trackable have a hard enough time not getting lost or stolen as is. But when the reward for moving them can be wiped out so easy without any penalty, why would they then not just get moved to the neatest waste container.

8.8k · January 31, 2012

I forgot to say something I wanted to say.

Grounspeak is not a police officer. So they will not correct anyone who does something like this.

But you can ask them to restore the logs. I suggest you do that. Write an e-mail to contact @ geocaching.com.

What you are thinking of is in reference to legitimate cache find logs, on caches, that have been deleted by cache owners, for no good reason. Groundspeak does not police trackable logs. They will reinstate legitimate find logs, if they were found to be deleted erroneously, or out of angst.

Please do not cause this geocoin owner any more pain or discomfort, by offering the wrong solution.

I looked at the geocoin in question, and there were only 10 discovers on it from one event. No photos, nothing special said about the coin. Just a lot of "Thanks for the discovery at the event", so I can see why the new owner would want to start off clean, the history was pretty dull.

And has been said often in here - It's a coin, not a kidney.

January 31, 2012

And has been said often in here - It's a coin, not a kidney.

Where is a "Thumbs Up" when you need it? :lol:

January 31, 2012

It is interesting to see how this conversation has progressed. As Eartha has stated it appears the unstated and highly unclear policy is that owners can do as they like and I accept that I will unfortunately lose a log for a coin previously owned by a friend/neighbor of mine that I physically and personally observed.

Enough with this specific coin, but rather the whole process creates some interesting problems

For better or for worse we are all collectors of something. Many of you collect coins, many collect caches, many of you collect forum posts....

Regardless of what we collect I think it is a problem for anyone to slam that. I unfortunately don't have the funding to collect coins so I have collected coin icons when I have attended events. I enjoy the quality and the artistry put into coins as well as the rest of you folks and do not like the tone of some of the above posts indicating issues with those of us who will sit and look through a binder at an event so that we can enjoy this addictive hobby as well as those who can purchase them.

Now, my final thoughts on all of this.

I find it troublesome that Groundspeak would have no official policy on this, but just a set of rules encouraging users to not delete logs. The entire Groundspeak website is setup for logging finds, loggings trackables, and basically documenting a players experience.

As a premium member, I pay to play this game. It would seem that there would be something in place to protect the user’s experience.

The way I see it, although I don’t own a specific coin, I do own the experience of having seen it and I do own the log that I wrote (even if all it was was a thanks for allowing me the opportunity to discover) and feel that deleting this experience shouldn’t be this easy.

I wonder how the community would respond to say all project ape cache logs being deleted. Or all of the logs of discoveries on one of the Mountain Bike Coins. I realize these are much more significant but it isn’t really all that different even if only 10 people discovered this coin.

Edited January 31, 2012 by teamhaynes

January 31, 2012

And has been said often in here - It's a coin, not a kidney.

Nooooooooooo! Blasphemy!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

8.8k · January 31, 2012

It is probably because of the fact that geocoins are collectible that people want to delete logs on geocoins they purchase used. Some people think that activating a coin lessens its value. Others probably feel that having logs may lessen the value.

We encourage people NOT to delete the logs on TBs and coins when a copy is released, in place of the lost original. But geocoins, being collectible, are often sold, and resold, and you can't then control what the next owner will do with their purchase. They have no connection, or ties, to you, the previous logger. They bought something and like a used car, they want to shine it up, make it look new again.

I'm sorry to say, it's one of those Catch 22 situations. Someone is going to be unhappy. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

January 31, 2012

They bought something and like a used car, they want to shine it up, make it look new again.

Well on used cars one is not allowed to mess with the mileage.

Edited January 31, 2012 by kdv

January 31, 2012

It is probably because of the fact that geocoins are collectible that people want to delete logs on geocoins they purchase used. Some people think that activating a coin lessens its value. Others probably feel that having logs may lessen the value.

We encourage people NOT to delete the logs on TBs and coins when a copy is released, in place of the lost original. But geocoins, being collectible, are often sold, and resold, and you can't then control what the next owner will do with their purchase. They have no connection, or ties, to you, the previous logger. They bought something and like a used car, they want to shine it up, make it look new again.

I'm sorry to say, it's one of those Catch 22 situations. Someone is going to be unhappy. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

+1

The adoption should lock all previous logs.

January 31, 2012

Well on used cars one is not allowed to mess with the mileage.

According to Eartha, this coin had traveled ZERO miles so it had no mileage! There was only a few boring discoveries from a single event.

There should be an option when adopting geocoins, to delete all previous logs without notification being sent to previous loggers, that their log was deleted. This would stop the hurt feelings.

January 31, 2012

According to Eartha, this coin had traveled ZERO miles so it had no mileage! There was only a few boring discoveries from a single event.

There should be an option when adopting geocoins, to delete all previous logs without notification being sent to previous loggers, that their log was deleted. This would stop the hurt feelings.

Sorry if my discovery was boring but I didn't write it for you or Eartha.... but it does count for me and the coin belonged to a friend of mine when discovered.. I find this attitude about intent troublesome..If you knew the DJ he designed a bunch of nice coins and spent a lot of time constructing display cases. This particular coin was in a display case and he carried it to events. This was a small event thus the small number of logs...

Edited January 31, 2012 by teamhaynes

January 31, 2012

I understand the metaphore can be confusing, as coins can indeed also have literal mileage. But of course here I meant mileage in a less literal sense: the past history of the coin, including the discoveries. Also, I feel it's quite a slippery slope if it depends on the originality, length or whatever other aspect of logs whether they are worthy to be kept. Also it's quite confusing to see that TPTB are not even in sync on this, since a reviewer unarchived the logs, only for them to be archived again (by Eartha I assume).

If the guiidelines state that a geocoin should be handled like a cache, then I don't see the logic in allowing log removal for the reasons that are in play here.

A clearer and uniform stand on thisd would help. And of course a geocoin is not a kidney. Nor is geocaching life saving brain surgery. They are however the topics of these forums (and a source of income for quite a few people).

According to Eartha, this coin had traveled ZERO miles so it had no mileage! There was only a few boring discoveries from a single event.

There should be an option when adopting geocoins, to delete all previous logs without notification being sent to previous loggers, that their log was deleted. This would stop the hurt feelings.

Edited January 31, 2012 by kdv

8.8k · January 31, 2012

The adoption should lock all previous logs.

You are welcome to suggest this in the geocaching.com feature requests. But, at this point, it would only help on future adoptions. There is no way to make this work retroactively.

8.8k · January 31, 2012

I was not inferring the logs were boring in my opinion, just stating that it might be how a new owner might look at it. As I said, if anyone wants to suggest ideas as featute requests, that would be the best place to start.

This is still a growing hobby, and we've all been adding to it over the years. Some things can't be ironed out until we find all the wrinkles.

January 31, 2012

Well, if anyone decides to put this up for suggestion and needs some backers, link to it here. I'd happily add to the testimony. I too would be pretty peeved if someone deleted one of my boring logs on a coin for no reason.

February 1, 2012

It is probably because of the fact that geocoins are collectible that people want to delete logs on geocoins they purchase used. Some people think that activating a coin lessens its value. Others probably feel that having logs may lessen the value.

We encourage people NOT to delete the logs on TBs and coins when a copy is released, in place of the lost original. But geocoins, being collectible, are often sold, and resold, and you can't then control what the next owner will do with their purchase. They have no connection, or ties, to you, the previous logger. They bought something and like a used car, they want to shine it up, make it look new again.

I'm sorry to say, it's one of those Catch 22 situations. Someone is going to be unhappy. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

+1

The adoption should lock all previous logs.

I like the idea of adoptions locking old logs. Myself I prefer the idea of all logs being locked after six months, but both are steps in the right direction. If this were to be proposed to Groundspeak, I would gladly get behind it. I don't know if we still have a voting system for making changes, but if so, I would give a lot of votes for this initiative.

February 1, 2012

No, a new owner of a coin cannot just wipe clean the logbook of the coin.

A trackable is the same as a cache.

When someone has moved or just seen the coin or TB and noted the number to look it up on the geocaching pages and then made the effort to log it, the log should never be deleted.

Unless a log is not conform rules of geocaching.com.

You can look it up: guidelines on Log Deletion.

WRONG! This only apply's to Geocaches Not Geocoins!

February 1, 2012

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I will write an e-mail to the new owner of the coin explaining why he can't just delete logs for a trackable or cache.

It appears this too, is Wrong?!?! <_<

February 1, 2012

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I will write an e-mail to the new owner of the coin explaining why he can't just delete logs for a trackable or cache.

It appears this too, is Wrong?!?!

Dominos I believe is a volunteer cache reviewer and as such has prerogative to contact members regarding logs caches etc. when he believes there is a problem.

Based on his status as a trusted member of the geocaching community it speaks volumes to me that the current policiies are extremely unclear so I would hesitate to label his actions as "wrong".

I know several other reviewers personally as well who seemed unclear as to whether deleting coin logs without there being a fundamental problem with the log itself was acceptable.

It seems to me that having such an unclear policy is in itself leading to problems and taking sides on this issue.

I would like to continue this thread as I think this discussion has a lot of merit but it needs some civility and well constructed arguments.

February 1, 2012

It is probably because of the fact that geocoins are collectible that people want to delete logs on geocoins they purchase used. Some people think that activating a coin lessens its value. Others probably feel that having logs may lessen the value.

We encourage people NOT to delete the logs on TBs and coins when a copy is released, in place of the lost original. But geocoins, being collectible, are often sold, and resold, and you can't then control what the next owner will do with their purchase. They have no connection, or ties, to you, the previous logger. They bought something and like a used car, they want to shine it up, make it look new again.

I'm sorry to say, it's one of those Catch 22 situations. Someone is going to be unhappy. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

+1

The adoption should lock all previous logs.

By not allowing the new coin owner to make the coin their own by getting rid of the old logs, would kill the incentive for buying preactivated coins. I know I would not buy anymore.

I think that when a coin is adopted over to a new owner, the new owner should have the option to remove All Previous Logs if they wish.

I am in the opposite camp. I have bought several activated coins and wouldn't dream of deleting the logs. They are the fingerprint that makes each coin unique

Edited February 1, 2012 by teamhaynes

February 1, 2012

Had a football helmet racing travel bug log wiped day or two ago

February 1, 2012

It is probably because of the fact that geocoins are collectible that people want to delete logs on geocoins they purchase used. Some people think that activating a coin lessens its value. Others probably feel that having logs may lessen the value.

We encourage people NOT to delete the logs on TBs and coins when a copy is released, in place of the lost original. But geocoins, being collectible, are often sold, and resold, and you can't then control what the next owner will do with their purchase. They have no connection, or ties, to you, the previous logger. They bought something and like a used car, they want to shine it up, make it look new again.

I'm sorry to say, it's one of those Catch 22 situations. Someone is going to be unhappy. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

+1

I have purchased MANY pre activated geocoins, If the coin has logs on it showing it has been moved by other Geocachers and has gained miles, then I will leave the logs, but if the coin was only taken to events and discovered, well those logs get deleted so that I can start the coin on a whole new journey with a new activation date and a new starting point. As the Coin owner, I like having that option and if this option is taken away, well I would not seek buying older coins anymore, to me that would devalue them even more then they already are.

The adoption should lock all previous logs.

By not allowing the new coin owner to make the coin their own by getting rid of the old logs, would kill the incentive for buying preactivated coins. I know I would not buy anymore.

I think that when a coin is adopted over to a new owner, the new owner should have the option to remove All Previous Logs if they wish.

I am in the opposite camp. I have bought several activated coins and wouldn't dream of deleting the logs. They are the fingerprint that makes each coin unique

I have purchased MANY pre activated geocoins, If the coin has logs on it showing it has been moved by other Geocachers and has gained miles, then I will leave the logs, but if the coin was only taken to events and discovered, well those logs get deleted so that I can start the coin on a whole new journey with a new activation date and a new starting point. As the Coin owner, I like having that option and if this option is taken away, well I would not seek buying older coins anymore, to me that would devalue them even more then they already are.

Your logic doesn't make any sense. If someone moves it, the log stays. If someone sees the coin at an event, the log goes. Why?

It's not going to hurt my feelings if you don't buy activated geocoins anymore, so your using that as a point in favor of allowing deletions of logs on previously owned coins is not going to work over here.

February 1, 2012

It is probably because of the fact that geocoins are collectible that people want to delete logs on geocoins they purchase used. Some people think that activating a coin lessens its value. Others probably feel that having logs may lessen the value.

We encourage people NOT to delete the logs on TBs and coins when a copy is released, in place of the lost original. But geocoins, being collectible, are often sold, and resold, and you can't then control what the next owner will do with their purchase. They have no connection, or ties, to you, the previous logger. They bought something and like a used car, they want to shine it up, make it look new again.

I'm sorry to say, it's one of those Catch 22 situations. Someone is going to be unhappy. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

+1

The adoption should lock all previous logs.

By not allowing the new coin owner to make the coin their own by getting rid of the old logs, would kill the incentive for buying preactivated coins. I know I would not buy anymore.

I think that when a coin is adopted over to a new owner, the new owner should have the option to remove All Previous Logs if they wish.

Again, this isn't making any sense to me. I too have bought many preactivated coins. Well over 50 of them. And starting with fresh logs was not even a consideration when buying them. The motivation for me tends to be the reduced purchase price, not that ability to start with a clean log sheet. As I said before, no matter what I do with the coin, I can not change who has moved or seen the coin. My deleting those logs changes nothing except what motivated the people who moved or discovered that coin to do so in the first place, and that in and of itself makes any coin log deletions an unfair practice.

February 1, 2012

It is probably because of the fact that geocoins are collectible that people want to delete logs on geocoins they purchase used. Some people think that activating a coin lessens its value. Others probably feel that having logs may lessen the value.

We encourage people NOT to delete the logs on TBs and coins when a copy is released, in place of the lost original. But geocoins, being collectible, are often sold, and resold, and you can't then control what the next owner will do with their purchase. They have no connection, or ties, to you, the previous logger. They bought something and like a used car, they want to shine it up, make it look new again.

I'm sorry to say, it's one of those Catch 22 situations. Someone is going to be unhappy. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

+1

I have purchased MANY pre activated geocoins, If the coin has logs on it showing it has been moved by other Geocachers and has gained miles, then I will leave the logs, but if the coin was only taken to events and discovered, well those logs get deleted so that I can start the coin on a whole new journey with a new activation date and a new starting point. As the Coin owner, I like having that option and if this option is taken away, well I would not seek buying older coins anymore, to me that would devalue them even more then they already are.

The adoption should lock all previous logs.

By not allowing the new coin owner to make the coin their own by getting rid of the old logs, would kill the incentive for buying preactivated coins. I know I would not buy anymore.

I think that when a coin is adopted over to a new owner, the new owner should have the option to remove All Previous Logs if they wish.

I am in the opposite camp. I have bought several activated coins and wouldn't dream of deleting the logs. They are the fingerprint that makes each coin unique

I have purchased MANY pre activated geocoins, If the coin has logs on it showing it has been moved by other Geocachers and has gained miles, then I will leave the logs, but if the coin was only taken to events and discovered, well those logs get deleted so that I can start the coin on a whole new journey with a new activation date and a new starting point. As the Coin owner, I like having that option and if this option is taken away, well I would not seek buying older coins anymore, to me that would devalue them even more then they already are.

Your logic doesn't make any sense. If someone moves it, the log stays. If someone sees the coin at an event, the log goes. Why?

It's not going to hurt my feelings if you don't buy activated geocoins anymore, so your using that as a point in favor of allowing deletions of logs on previously owned coins is not going to work over here.

Well Got to say "Your Feelings" don't mean squat to me. When a coin is just 'discovered' the person logging the discovery has not vested any time with it, they just looked at if for a few seconds. When a coin is placed into a cache and then picked up and moved, well that geocacher has a history with it, so those logs will stay, a discovery at an event does not warrant the same consideration.

February 1, 2012

So my question then becomes who owns the log.....I mentioned this above, but again, in a system that promotes logging, defines achiements by how many caches, gives put badges for various challenges...the log is the essential method of acknowledging many parts of the experience. Allowing for such an easy removal of legitimate logs seems troublesome

February 1, 2012

So my question then becomes who owns the log.....I mentioned this above, but again, in a system that promotes logging, defines achiements by how many caches, gives put badges for various challenges...the log is the essential method of acknowledging many parts of the experience. Allowing for such an easy removal of legitimate logs seems troublesome

This is why Cache logs can not be deleted. Coins are different.

That is why this activity is called Geocaching, and not Geocoining.

February 1, 2012

Well Got to say "Your Feelings" don't mean squat to me. When a coin is just 'discovered' the person logging the discovery has not vested any time with it, they just looked at if for a few seconds. When a coin is placed into a cache and then picked up and moved, well that geocacher has a history with it, so those logs will stay, a discovery at an event does not warrant the same consideration.

I am not a mod, but I will ask please don't start the attacks..it takes away from the validity of your reasoning.

Edited February 1, 2012 by teamhaynes

Owner wiped out all logs for geocoin

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