Need help with spiteful person

September 29, 2002

I don't know what's up with this guy but he has really stirred up some problems with his actions. He basically has held onto a travel bug that is owned by someone we know for almost a month now. He is a person who owns many caches and is very active in the sport. But for absolutely NO reason he has decided to hold on to this bug and now play games with us. Is there any kind of action that can be taken? Or are we basically SOL? It's really too bad because this person is well known in our area for all the caches he has. And I feel like we've been unjustly singled out for politely emailing him a couple times asking him to please release the bug back into the wild as soon as possible. It's really a sad situation, can anyone help us out? Thanks!

- Robin & Neil

September 29, 2002

Several possibilities come to mind [see seperate string on never minding]. Perhaps I have been reading too much by George Hayduke. Ureka! That's it. check out the Hayduke books!

1.6k · September 29, 2002

I've though much about how vunerable this sport is. Anyone with access and GPS could completely obliterate all the physical caches in an area. It really depends on the good will of the participants.

However, if I were a spiteful person several things come to mind, as well. But, depending on the true interaction with the other person and distance from me of his caches...

Ransom for the new coordinates of his caches would be mailing the TB back to me, in good condition, at his expense, is but a start.

Thing is, do you really want to start a war? I wouldn't. I wouldn't want the aftermath of such an encounter. But, I won't give up, either. Maybe, an email from Jeremy would do?

Hope it's settled amicably!

CR

1.5k · September 29, 2002

There are some folks in these forums who believe a geocacher would never do such a thing. Geocachers are good, and therefore they would never do anything harmful to another geocacher, the hobby, or anything else for that matter.

Sorry to hear about your problems... my initial thoughts are that if you continute to get worked up about it, and send e-mails to that person - it probably is only going to encourage them to be more jerky, knowing that they can yank your chain.

Click the Toe...  and please stop confusing your opinion with fact, ok?

1.5k · September 29, 2002

There are some folks in these forums who believe a geocacher would never do such a thing. Geocachers are good, and therefore they would never do anything harmful to another geocacher, the hobby, or anything else for that matter.

Sorry to hear about your problems... my initial thoughts are that if you continute to get worked up about it, and send e-mails to that person - it probably is only going to encourage them to be more jerky, knowing that they can yank your chain.

Click the Toe...  and please stop confusing your opinion with fact, ok?

3.1k · September 29, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:
Ransom for the new coordinates of his caches would be mailing the TB back to me, in good condition, at his expense, is but a start.

Why would you punish the people trying to find those caches?

Very bad form.

September 29, 2002

Sorry.....thought this thread was about my boss.

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

September 29, 2002

Sorry.....thought this thread was about my boss.

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

9.1k · September 29, 2002

If you're reading this, please read what I believe to be a Related Thread before reaching a judgment about who's the "spiteful person."

RobiNeil, what are you looking for by posting in the Geocaching site features section? Others have asked in the past whether slow bug movers could be "banned" from seeing travel bugs. Didn't get very far. Or would it work if the tags had shrill little microchip alarms built into them, so that anyone who held the bug for too long would be compelled to run out and place it, just so they could hear again?

Twenty days is on the outside border of good etiquette for holding onto a travel bug. If every person who did this had two separate forum threads devoted to complaints about the issue, we'd be flooded with bad karma and I'd stop reading the forums. Hmmmm, maybe that is a good thing....

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-

I keep missing my ex-wife. But my aim is getting better.

1.6k · September 30, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by dinoprophet:

Why would you punish the people trying to find those caches?

Very bad form.

http://www.mi-geocaching.org/

No different than suddenly changing the particulars to a cache, or archiving without warning.

Besides, I agree, it would be bad form. But, nations don't have armies because the young men look good in uniform.

No, this sport if is very vunerable to mischief. No one is really safe--not the TB owners, not the hiders, not the finders.

This guy sounds like a bully and you handle bullies appropriately.

CR

3.1k · September 30, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:
No different than suddenly changing the particulars to a cache, or archiving without warning.

Except that in those cases, the owner does it and will let seekers know by updating the cache page.

Besides, if five or ten caches in my area that I wanted to hunt suddenly weren't available, I wouldn't be happy. And it would be the person who took them that I wouldn't be happy with. If someone cuts you off in traffic, you don't block off the street they live on for revenge. "Sorry, folks, but that guy cut me off, so I'm not letting him drive! You should be mad at him!"

And if you do take his caches, exactly how long do you think your own placements will last?

quote:
This guy sounds like a bully and you handle bullies appropriately.

Agreed. But taking his caches isn't what I'd call "appropriate". I don't know the solution, but do I know this isn't it.

1.6k · September 30, 2002

Dino,

That's why it wouldn't be good to try and get into a war with this fellow. But with bullies, I've found that if you let them know just how far YOU'RE willing to take it, THEY may feel it's not worth it.

Like I said more than once, this sport is very vulnerable to abuse. You get ticked off with someone and exact a little pay-back, you'd better be prepared for the consequences.

Say you did move the caches of someone who offended you. What's to stop them from going out and getting your caches? What to stop them from posting nasty stuff all over the web about you?

The answer is: nothing.

Consequently, what's to stop him from thinking that while you're not going to do anything about, why not go ahead and get YOUR caches--why stop at the TB's? I mean, he feels safe, because you're going to roll over. Why not?

Until there's a better solution, standing up to this fellow and letting him know just how vulnerable HE is might be enough leverage to get him to return the TB.

CR

3.1k · September 30, 2002

CR,

I understand what you're saying about brinksmanship. But I see caches as something there for people other than the owner. Destruction of a cache hurts the other cachers in the area more than it hurts the owner. As another metaphor, it's like stealing the food I donated to a food drive because you're mad at me.

The thing is, the orignal poster says that this person is well-established in the geocaching community. Based on that, I doubt they originally took the bug with the intention of not releasing it, and as such I don't think they're doing this simply to bully. Call me naive, but I can't believe someone who would go through the time and effort to place "many caches" for the enjoyment of strangers would bully for no reason. Especially realizing the vulnerability of their own stuff, as someone veteran enough to have placed many caches must. Maybe the person is just having personal problems lately and hasn't been able to get out to place the bug. But then, maybe they are being completely malicious, who can say?

RobiNeil, can you tell us more about what has been happening with this person?

1.6k · September 30, 2002

Yeah, need more information...

BTW, I wasn't talking about destruction--only moving them. Then exchange the coordinates of where you hid them for the TB. Personally, that's too much trouble for a TB, but I don't know the history.

Also, while not on the same level, though a TB is personal property like a cache, it's for the community as a whole as well. What about the people who where watching the bug? I track all of the one's that have gone through my hands. I find it interesting. What about the people who were watching the TB in question?

I do see your very valid points.

CR

3.1k · September 30, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Sissy-n-CR:
Also, while not on the same level, though a TB is personal property like a cache, it's for the community as a whole as well. What about the people who where watching the bug? I track all of the one's that have gone through my hands. I find it interesting. What about the people who were watching the TB in question?

Yes, I'm bothered when I see a bug I helped move get sent way off course and/or vanish. I think the value is almost reversed from caches: a cache means a lot to the hider, certainly, but the finders suffer more when one is sabotaged; bugs may gather a following, but they're a very personal item to the owner. A very spiteful person would do better to obtain a bug owned by the other person. But I'm not condoning either course.

quote:
I do see your very valid points.

And I see yours. We may be arguing in circles, but we're making some points in the process I think. I may have took what you originally said as a suggestion when you meant it as an undesirable possibility.

6.4k · September 30, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by dinoprophet:
The thing is, the orignal poster says that this person is well-established in the geocaching community. Based on that, I doubt they originally took the bug with the intention of not releasing it, and as such I don't think they're doing this simply to bully. Call me naive, but I can't believe someone who would go through the time and effort to place "many caches" for the enjoyment of strangers would bully for no reason. Especially realizing the vulnerability of their own stuff, as someone veteran enough to have placed many caches must. Maybe the person is just having personal problems lately and hasn't been able to get out to place the bug. But then, maybe they are being completely malicious, who can say?

RobiNeil, can you tell us more about what has been happening with this person?

http://www.mi-geocaching.org/

As Lep mentioned earlier, more info about this can be found in THIS THREAD. Might shed a slightly different light on things after you read it.

Illegitimus non carborundum!

3.1k · October 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:
As Lep mentioned earlier, more info about this can be found in http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=8080979883&m=1370967435. Might shed a slightly different light on things after you read it.

Hmm, I don't see an Instant Graemlin for "not surprised".

By the way, to Rubbertoe, in the discussion above I didn't mean to belittle the pain of a lost cache; a pain you have known all too well.

October 1, 2002

quote:
Originally posted by Trudy & The Beast:
Several possibilities come to mind [see seperate string on never minding]. Perhaps I have been reading too much by George Hayduke. _Ureka! That's it._ check out the Hayduke books!

The reason I had suggested Hayduke's [rather sick] joke books on revenge is that I had felt you were taking this problem too seriously. I realize that TBs are like children to most of us. But, you must realize that like children, after they leave home there may be long periods when you don't hear from them. Have patience, my friends, give the TB holder some time. It will all work out.

9.2k · October 1, 2002

I picked up a bug 5 weeks ago, and am still in posession of it. The problem is, none of the caches I've found since then have been big enough to hold the bug item (at least, not without dumping out all the other contents). You didn't give enough information to determine what may really be going on.

March 6, 2003

Hmmm...

I'm just a little pissed right now.

I remember the original thread by some newbie complaining about their precious TB in the

geocaching.com forums. Originally, they were flamed pretty good for complaining about

someone only having their TB for 3-4 weeks when others had lost TB for months.

But because OP was/is not the kind to easily respond to people's emails, that over-sensitive newbie got all huffy.

I remember sending OP a link to the thread and we kinda laughed over it. I never went back to that thread again, or any subsquent threads, and so I never realized how escalated it grew.

Now, after reading these threads, I'm shocked.

It could very well have caused OP to either get fed up and quit, or those squeeky-wheeled

newbies got enough support from the distant geocaching community (who didn't know OP) to get him banned from the site. It was not his way to answer to people for such trivial matters, so he would never respond with a defense.

In either case, I'd rather have one OP than a hundred of those people who helped deride

him and cause him to leave this game.

OP was one of the founding members of SoCal geocaching and brought alot of good to the

sport. He created some of the best, most unique, and challenging caches around. Others

got their inspiration and ideas from his firsts. He showed us all what could be done.

Just because he liked to stay annonymous, and wasn't always forthcoming with email

replies, was NO reason to think bad of him. He always did the right thing, in time. He WAS NOT so much a finder, as a HIDER. That was his forte. He liked placing challenges for ALL of us to conquer.

Susan and I met him twice in person, and knew him to be a very nice person. He only infrequently replied to our emails. But that was OK by us.

We really appreciated his hides and respected his privacy.

It seems sad to think there is a possibility that a couple newbies with no knowledge of his ways and his contributions to geocaching, could squeal loud enough to get him to quit, or worse yet, officially banned from geocaching.

I considered him my friend. I am very upset that those threads ever developed. And extremely angry if they got him out of geocaching

20.7k · March 7, 2003

Please tell me that OP has not quit the game.

I have been to SoCal twice in the last year and had not had the time to go after OP's caches. I understand that they are terrific. I've been dying to go after a few, but haven't made the time.

38.2k · March 7, 2003

quote:
But because OP was/is not the kind to easily respond to people's emails, that over-sensitive newbie got all huffy...SNIP...It could very well have caused OP to either get fed up and quit...SNIP...(or) to get him banned from the site. It was not his way to answer to people for such trivial matters, so he would never respond with a defense.

I don't know this OP, but he ignores e-mails from other geocachers, has been banned from this site and quit geocaching because of comments from "thin skinned newbies". Hmmmmm.

A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away. -Barry Goldwater

9.1k · March 7, 2003

I do not believe that OtisPug has been "banned from the site." His profile page shows that his last visit was this morning. I saw that he was logged into the forums on Friday morning, probably reading this thread.

OtisPug placed his most recent cache in late October, and his most recent cache log in early November (a note posted to that new cache). Since then, nothing. No finds, no hides. His existing caches remain active.

So, all we have is a mystery. He may have just taken off for the winter. He may have indeed quit the game due to *three* forum threads being devoted to these issues, combined with whatever other perceptions he may have about the growth of the game. That's OtisPug's prerogative. He is also under no obligation to defend or explain himself in the forums. His silence does not equate to guilt.

It is fairly obvious how I come out on the merits of this geocacher spat, by reading my prior posts in this thread and whatever I may have said in the other two, based on the limited facts presented. In the larger sense, though, I would also like to offer my opinion that these forums are a terrible place for airing and resolving personal disputes between geocachers. Folks pass judgment based on whatever "facts" are presented (or omitted), miscommunications occur, people pile on and escalate the conflict to new levels, etc. etc. People like Kevin & Susan, who may have relevant facts to add to the discussion, don't read every single thread in these forums every day, and miss the opportunity to participate. And people like SBell111 can speak firsthand to the usefulness of the forums in resolving disputes.

On the other hand, these forums are great for communicating facts, answering questions, promoting the positive aspects of the game and engaging in genuine debate about cache etiquette, site features, etc. Think what your opinion of the forums would be if that's the only content you saw. Most of what I dislike about the forums are the "this person did such and such" threads. But I still come here every day because of the positive stuff and the laughter.

During a visit to Southern California last fall, I made it a point to hunt for some OtisPug caches. I found four out of five and had a memorable day of hiking through canyons. Two of the hides were unique, and my introduction to truly advanced hiding techniques. If you browse his other caches, you can tell that many of them are something special. I hope they stay active and would encourage everyone to try to find some of them if they have the opportunity.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

I was formerly employed by the Department of Redundancy Department, but I don't work there anymore.

March 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Leprechauns:

But I still come here every day because of the positive stuff and the laughter.

That about says it all.

Need help with spiteful person

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment