Curious: Challenge caches on Challenges

[+thebruce0]

Is it 'legal' by Groundspeak guidelines to publish a challenge cache (Unknown, with physical log to sign) with the challenge being to complete a series of Geocaching Challenges?

 

The argument could be made that Challenges can be logged from the couch, though at this point location-specific is being enforced (via the community) and completion logs can be flagged. If any Challenge gets archived from flagging, the challenge cache can be disabled and adjusted if necessary, so listing maintenance isn't an issue. I think the biggest grey area may be the difference in the way logs for caches and challenges are handled.

 

So, can an owner create a series of Challenges, then publish a challenge cache that requires completion of the Challenge series in order to log it as found?

 

I'm not sure if it's been asked yet - it's hard to narrow down a search for threads about challenge caches for completing challenges

[+Walts Hunting]

Since Groundspeak is the controlling overlord of this hobby what ever they do by default is legal.

[GOF and Bacall]

Seems kinda like double dipping to me.

[+thebruce0]

Not sure how it's double-dipping... one geocache is logged in the end. Challenge completion is an entirely different area of geocaching.com.

 

Just wondering if it's against the guidelines or not. (or if anyone's heard of this being done yet and whether it's been approved or denied)

[+geodarts]

The guidelines on challenge caches were written before the separate challenges came out but seem to give wide latitude as long as the goal us Groundspeak related: "A challenge cache is a variation of a puzzle cache. This will typically require the cacher to meet a reasonable Geocaching-, Waymarking- or Wherigo-related qualification." If you can do challenge caches based on Waymarking, why not challenges? But ask your reviewer.

[Mr.Yuck]

Seems kinda like double dipping to me.

 

One of my Earthcaches has been made into a Waymark, and now a new Challenge. That would be triple dipping. Go for it. I'm looking at a way to integrate a benchmark into a Earthcache so it can be quadruple dipped.

 

OK, I better edit and say something serious. I've found a Waymark Challenge cache where I had to visit 100 waymarks. It was in Southern Ontario, as a matter of fact. I don't see why the Frog wouldn't approve of what is being suggested.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Mr.Yuck

[+thebruce0]

I guess a difference might be that it's not a generic "do challenges" challenge cache, but rather a "complete the series of these challenges (list)". Don't know if that's more or less acceptable, but it sounds like it shouldn't be an issue. Actually it sounds more like a bonus/final cache for a series of geocaches, except the series aren't geocaches .

 

Would love to hear a reviewer comment, or GS input. Keystone?

[+geodarts]

If you want to ask cachers to complete a list of challenges, then this guideline might apply:

 

"Requiring cachers to find an explicit list of caches (rather than a broader category of caches) will likely prevent the cache from being published."

 

As mentioned before, I would read the guidelines for challenge caches, see if they might apply to my idea and if I had any doubt run the idea by my local reviewer.

[+lamoracke]

there are challenges that require you to find earth caches, virtuals, traditionals, wherigos, puzzles, letterboxes, etc etc and even ones for benchmarks and yes waymarks. Why not "challenge caches" for challenges. I would find it extremely problematic because challenges are seemingly removed on the spot and then records of those completions are very narrow in what is shown once the challenge is removed. However, I see no reason why not.

[+Touchstone]

Sounds like a Bonus cache rather than a Challenge. The other issue would be if one of the qualifying Challenge Listings is Archived, it makes the Final Challenge impossible, for all intensive purposes.

 

Whatever happened to "sign the logbook, claim a Find"

 

Good luck with the idea nonetheless.

[+wimseyguy]

I think the reviewers will base this decision on the challenge requirements. Otherwise it is just the return of ALR's all over again. Even if the challenge guidelines are looser, I cannot see anyone publishing a challenge cache that requires wearing a dress, phooning, planking, etc. as a challenge requirement.

[+JeepFreak81]

There are some caches near me called the Little Dipper Series where the owner has placed caches for each star of the little dipper except for polaris. Inside each cache is a number, once you find the first 6 cache's you have all the numbers for the coordinates of the final cache. I wonder if something like this could be incorporated to avoid this guideline problem

 

"Requiring cachers to find an explicit list of caches (rather than a broader category of caches) will likely prevent the cache from being published."

[+thebruce0]

Yeah, the review process might be more subjective depending on the requirements...

 

Ok a little more detail on the idea: there's a series of landmarks for which Challenges could be created (a task/photo at the locations) -- can a challenge and/or 'final' geocache be published that requires completion of that series of Challenges?

It does feel more like a 'bonus' cache for a series, but then it's also different because the prerequisites aren't physical geocaches with clues - they're Challenges.

 

Hm. Closest examples:

1) Series Bonus (unknown) cache: Find specific physical geocaches which each provide a clue to the location of the Bonus. If a cache in the series is archived, the final can be adjusted to compensate (eg, provide the missing clue, or set a replacement cache elsewhere)

2) Challenge (unknown) cache: Log a required number of target category caches (if any candidate cache is archived, it doesn't affect the requirements or ability to complete the challenge), before going to the posted coordinates to sign its log.

 

"Challenge" challenge cache: For a series of specific challenges (non-physical but tied to locations), it seems somewhere between the above examples... If a series challenge is archived, a new one (adjusted if necessary) could be created at/near the same location. Proof of completion would still be available by completion logs on all series challenges (even archived). Challenge cache owner can still manage find logs and verify completion. The physical challenge cache is at the posted location (as is standard for challenge caches), so no clues for its location are necessary via the series challenge posted locations.

 

Whatever happened to "sign the logbook, claim a Find"

It's still alive and active!

Edited September 23, 2011 by thebruce0

[+Manville Possum]

Seems kinda like double dipping to me.

 

One of my Earthcaches has been made into a Waymark, and now a new Challenge. That would be triple dipping. Go for it. I'm looking at a way to integrate a benchmark into a Earthcache so it can be quadruple dipped.

 

OK, I better edit and say something serious. I've found a Waymark Challenge cache where I had to visit 100 waymarks. It was in Southern Ontario, as a matter of fact. I don't see why the Frog wouldn't approve of what is being suggested.

One of my EC's is a waymark, challange, and virtual listing.

[+CanadianRockies]

You could create a multi or puzzle cache that requires people to go to Challenge sites and get some information from those locations, but a multi/puzzle cache couldn't require people to complete the Challenges (ALRs).

 

You might be able to create a challenge cache that requires people to complete a certain number of Challenges, but (as others have noted) it's unlikely that you could provide a specific list of Challenges that must be completed.

 

The guidelines also provide another potential obstacle for creating a challenge cache:

 

Importantly, cache owners must consider how they will substantiate claims that the challenge [i.e., challenge cache requirements] has been met. The logging requirements on the cache page must reflect this consideration, and must be logistically viable.

Square bracketed clarification added by me.

 

You might have trouble convincing a reviewer that you can adequately verify that Challenges have been completed.

Edited September 23, 2011 by CanadianRockies

[AZcachemeister]

I can't see how a Challenge Cache requiring a certain number of challenges to have been completed would be an issue.

 

That being said, such a cache would hit my Ignore List faster than a speeding bullet.

[Mr.Yuck]

Seems kinda like double dipping to me.

 

One of my Earthcaches has been made into a Waymark, and now a new Challenge. That would be triple dipping. Go for it. I'm looking at a way to integrate a benchmark into a Earthcache so it can be quadruple dipped.

 

OK, I better edit and say something serious. I've found a Waymark Challenge cache where I had to visit 100 waymarks. It was in Southern Ontario, as a matter of fact. I don't see why the Frog wouldn't approve of what is being suggested.

One of my EC's is a waymark, challange, and virtual listing.

 

Technically, my earthcache is too, it's a Navicache virtual, also owned by me. But it's only been logged there 5 times in 5 years. I did not make it a Waymark, and an even different guy just made it a challenge. I don't care, but it is kind of odd to have it listed in 3 separate Groundspeak places.

 

I can't see how a Challenge Cache requiring a certain number of challenges to have been completed would be an issue.

 

That being said, such a cache would hit my Ignore List faster than a speeding bullet.

 

Yeah, I said earlier I did a "visit 100 Waymarks" Challenge cache. How could this possibly be interpreted as any different? Hey, that's not nice about the ignore list.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Mr.Yuck

[+Isonzo Karst]

there's a series of landmarks for which Challenges could be created (a task/photo at the locations) -- can a challenge and/or 'final' geocache be published that requires completion of that series of Challenges?

....

 

"Challenge" challenge cache: For a series of specific challenges (non-physical but tied to locations)

 

Here's the Knowledge Books article on Challenges Caches, this is linked directly from the relevant section of the Listing Guidelines, and acts as a part of them.

 

#8 Requiring cachers to find an explicit list of caches (rather than a broader category of caches) will likely prevent the cache from being published.

 

caches/waymarks/Wherigo/challenges.... no explicit lists, instead use a more broadly defined category

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

there's a series of landmarks for which Challenges could be created (a task/photo at the locations) -- can a challenge and/or 'final' geocache be published that requires completion of that series of Challenges?

....

 

"Challenge" challenge cache: For a series of specific challenges (non-physical but tied to locations)

 

Here's the Knowledge Books article on Challenges Caches, this is linked directly from the relevant section of the Listing Guidelines, and acts as a part of them.

 

#8 Requiring cachers to find an explicit list of caches (rather than a broader category of caches) will likely prevent the cache from being published.

 

caches/waymarks/Wherigo/challenges.... no explicit lists, instead use a more broadly defined category

Ah but, they have said that "Challenges" are NOT caches. So, therefore - no problem, unless your reviewer sees one.

 

The simple answer here is to ask some of the reviewers of "Caches" to talk it over on their "reviewer forums" to see what the consensus might be on this "Challenge Cache of Challenges".

 

It sounds interesting. I might consider twisting my hubby's arm to go for one if the challenges were not ones where you have to do something stupid/overly silly or dangerous to accomplish them. Like a giant history gathering picture theme sounds great.

 

I wish you luck.

 

Shirley~