Forget about "TFTC" logs...

[+StarBrand]

...

And that is ok. I respect your opinion. I would just like it if you would a least acknowledge that my opinion has some validity.

To do so would be to give blank logs some form of validity. I won't do that. My belief is that words should be used in all logs. It is a shame the system does not force that. That is my opinion.

[knowschad]

....

He stated that with 150+ caches he doesn't want to troll through all his logs to see if someone found his cache.

...

Where did I say that?? I said I didn't want to troll through to find later (possible, maybe) edits.

 

Depends on your point of view. As a finder, the online log may be looked at as a logging mechanism for a smilie. As a cache owner - you see the emails as a notice that your cache has been logged and found. With 150+ active caches - I do not peruse them regularly to see if anybody has edited a previous log - and I am not notified of changes anybody makes. Thus, as a courtesy, I should strive to make my first 'find' loga note to the owner and as complete as possible.

 

Gee thanks for pointing out where I talked about looking for edited logs....

 

Got anything for the question I asked??

 

Ok then......

 

You know if all I ever got was TFTC and/or blank logs over the past 9 years - I gaurantee you that my hide count would be closer to 10. That is about I can say.......

10..........you are a Pillar of Strength. I would have 0. I already have numerous ideas and several partial completed containers that I haven't felt like finishing. Not just because of this issue, but it doesn't help.

 

I know that I have spent weeks getting some of my caches ready. I spent over $60 for a fiberglas fake rock once for camo (OK, never again). I spent over $100 once for materials to make a fake plaque as the first stage of a multi. Typically, I spend $20-$30 for swag that ends up as used, dirty golf balls and soggy coupons. My mind is constantly occupied with where and how I can hide a cache that is different from the rest and will really get people to talking. And I do it all for blank logs. Uh-huh. I'm a saint.

[mresoteric]

You know if all I ever got was TFTC and/or blank logs over the past 9 years - I gaurantee you that my hide count would be closer to 10. That is about I can say.......

 

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I posted earlier in either this thread or the cut and paste one that one possible reason for the proliferation of short or blank logs is the sheer number of caches available.

 

I don't have stats or anything but I am curious whether or not the short/blank logs started with the phone apps or if they started with the explosion in the number of caches. Perhaps someone who has been around a while can give some anecdotal evidence for either or both theories.

[mresoteric]

....

He stated that with 150+ caches he doesn't want to troll through all his logs to see if someone found his cache.

...

Where did I say that?? I said I didn't want to troll through to find later (possible, maybe) edits.

 

Depends on your point of view. As a finder, the online log may be looked at as a logging mechanism for a smilie. As a cache owner - you see the emails as a notice that your cache has been logged and found. With 150+ active caches - I do not peruse them regularly to see if anybody has edited a previous log - and I am not notified of changes anybody makes. Thus, as a courtesy, I should strive to make my first 'find' loga note to the owner and as complete as possible.

 

Gee thanks for pointing out where I talked about looking for edited logs....

 

Got anything for the question I asked??

 

Ok then......

 

You know if all I ever got was TFTC and/or blank logs over the past 9 years - I gaurantee you that my hide count would be closer to 10. That is about I can say.......

10..........you are a Pillar of Strength. I would have 0. I already have numerous ideas and several partial completed containers that I haven't felt like finishing. Not just because of this issue, but it doesn't help.

[mresoteric]

...

And that is ok. I respect your opinion. I would just like it if you would a least acknowledge that my opinion has some validity.

To do so would be to give blank logs some form of validity. I won't do that. My belief is that words should be used in all logs. It is a shame the system does not force that. That is my opinion.

 

So, it is your position that the ONLY explanation for short/blank logs is laziness? There is NO other explanation? Not one person could have possibly logged one of your caches for one of the reasons I have offered?

[+StarBrand]

...

And that is ok. I respect your opinion. I would just like it if you would a least acknowledge that my opinion has some validity.

To do so would be to give blank logs some form of validity. I won't do that. My belief is that words should be used in all logs. It is a shame the system does not force that. That is my opinion.

 

So, it is your position that the ONLY explanation for short/blank logs is laziness? There is NO other explanation? Not one person could have possibly logged one of your caches for one of the reasons I have offered?

My contention is that a blank online log is laziness and ungratefulness - by definition. Perhaps some cachers do not know about that generally accepted social moire here and that is why I write polite notes (see post number 2). But to continue to write zero length find logs after knowing what most cache owners think about them - is a sure sign of lazy and ungrateful behavior. Fortunately, I have yet to see it continue after the polite notes.

 

I don't share special locations and well thought out hides just to see " " in return for my hiding investment in this activity. Luckily, I have yet to.

[+fizzymagic]

So while probably MOST cache owners would PREFER better logs, it doesn't seem to be such a huge problem that Groundspeak needs to take any action on.

And you know this how, exactly? You have presented exactly zero evidence for your point of view.

 

...which appears to be that if there exist people who consider something acceptable, it is. I take it, then, that since there are many hundreds of people who consider stealing acceptable, then you think it must be, as well.

 

(and before you reply with some claim that I am equating leaving blank logs to stealing, I am not. Read carefully. For comprehension.)

[mresoteric]

So while probably MOST cache owners would PREFER better logs, it doesn't seem to be such a huge problem that Groundspeak needs to take any action on.

And you know this how, exactly?

 

http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/1365115-disallow-blank-logs

 

Status: declined

 

We now support blank logs instead of forcing the user to type things like "." and "TFTC" to post a log. We decided to do this since "I found it" is enough of an action for those who would prefer not to post a verbose log.

Jeremy Admin

[+lamoracke]

I really see no difference in a log that says "SL" or "TFTC" or blank. They really mean nothing, say nothing whether positive or negative and you can read what you want into those logs, but literally they do not say a darn thing. So, really, a blank vs TFTC? Whats the difference?

[+fizzymagic]

My contention is that a blank online log is laziness and ungratefulness - by definition.

 

I disagree. My opinion is that it is rude and impolite but I do not presume to know the reason behind the rudeness.

[+BCandMsKitty]

I really see no difference in a log that says "SL" or "TFTC" or blank. They really mean nothing, say nothing whether positive or negative and you can read what you want into those logs, but literally they do not say a darn thing. So, really, a blank vs TFTC? Whats the difference?

Not much .. except that the poster is at least thinking about what they are posting in order to get the right letters. They must be thinking Thanks for the cache when they type TFTC. A blank log is just nothing! Just give me my smiley!

[+BCandMsKitty]

So while probably MOST cache owners would PREFER better logs, it doesn't seem to be such a huge problem that Groundspeak needs to take any action on.

And you know this how, exactly?

 

http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/1365115-disallow-blank-logs

 

Status: declined

 

We now support blank logs instead of forcing the user to type things like "." and "TFTC" to post a log. We decided to do this since "I found it" is enough of an action for those who would prefer not to post a verbose log.

Jeremy Admin

 

I believe that is in direct response to the smart phone apps and logging practices. It is driven by the revenue gained from the use and sale of these apps, and not by what is best for geocaching!

[+BCandMsKitty]

you are trying to tell people with hundreds of hides how they should feel, and what they should do, about something that you have no experience at yet.

 

No I'm not. I am giving you my perspective. There are several people including yourself who have continually called people that post short or blank logs lazy.

 

All I have attempted from the beginning is to offer you an alternative perspective. A lot of posters feel that these logs are either a slight against them or that the person posting the log is lazy. I say that is not the only explanation. I've already detailed a number of times why I feel this way. You just don't happen to agree with my assessment. And that is ok. I respect your opinion. I would just like it if you would a least acknowledge that my opinion has some validity.

 

Sure, your opinion has validity. As much as anyone else's, but we also don't have to agree with it for it to be valid.

 

And I have never tried to say that blank logs is because of laziness. I will say that I think it is more a lack of gratitude for something that others provide. A sense of entitlement, maybe. I don't know, but it just seems poor that people don't feel the urge to acknowledge what others have done for them. Giving a blank log is only for the finder to get their smiley. Nothing else, IMO, and it always gives me a sense of let down when I open the notification to just see nothing in the text area.

 

Another thing ... when we hunt caches, we usually read the cache page to see what we are looking for, and the intention of the hider. We know that many hiders have a sense of pride about their caches, and try to explain their hides. Next we look at the past logs to sort of help us know if it has been found lately, what the condition of the cache is, were the co-ords of some, did the previous finders have a good experience, etc. etc. etc. So you can see where I am going here. Blank logs are useless to both the CO and the hunters. True .. TFTC logs are no use to the person reading the past logs either, but to me, blank is nothing..... TFTC .... at least the poster is thinking Thanks For The Cache!

 

SO, I guess we can stop writing in the physical log book too?

It is a real imposition on cachers to have to actually open the cache and pull that book out! We shouldn't be dictated to about what we have to do when we find the cache, should we? If we aren't dictated to about whether we should respond online for the cache we have found, then let's just throw it all out, and do only what we, in our opinions, think we should do!

[+sbell111]

As have many others, I have put a lot of time and effort into presenting the best cache I can to the Geocaching public.

In return, I would hope to recieve a comment that says my efforts are appreciated to some degree.

 

A TFTC at least says something, even "no comment" would say something, but a blank log?, A blank log says nothing at all.

I would rather a log say "expletive deleted" than say nothing at all.

I have too much time, effort and resources invested in the program to be ignored, or perhaps disrespected would be a better word for it.

 

That said, I am not going to stop geocaching nor am I going to lose any sleep over it, but I don't have to like it upon getting a blank log.

The bold part is simply not true. A 'blank' find log means that the cache was found and that no problems were reported. As a cache owner, I would take that as an indication that the cache did not currently need maintenance, in the absense of any other data.

[+sbell111]

Using real words in logs is just much more polite than blank space or shortcuts to real speech. Not a generational thing either. Just good manners.

When you describe it that way, it really DOES seem like a generational issue.

[+sbell111]

No one should have to change their logging practices just because it would be more convenient for the CO if they did it a certain way.

 

True. Buuuuuuuuut...

 

The growing number of poor logs are already leading to a degradation of the game. There are some fantastic hiders out there who have stopped hiding because of that trend. For them it got to the point where it wasn't worth the effort to put the effort into a great cache only to get a bunch of tftc or blank logs.

 

Or let me put it another way.

 

Suppose you invite someone over for dinner and put a lot of effort into making a very nice meal.

 

The guest arrives, eats the meal, and then gets up and leaves without a word. That's a blank log.

 

If the guest eats, then gives a burp and leaves, that's a tftc.

 

If the guest thanks you for the meal, compliments your cooking, and offers to help clean up, well, that's a nice log.

 

Are you going to be motivated to put out the effort again for the first two?

 

Unfortunately, it seems that the trend has gotten to where it's considered a very polite thing if you at least burp...

 

That is an awesome analogy!! It should be stuck at the top of the forum. It should be sent out in Groundspeak's next newsletter. Amen!

The only thing wrong with that analogy is that it wasn't a very good analogy.

 

First, you aren't inviting specific people to this meal. You are leaving it out in the world and offering it to whoever might be interested, without even giving them much of an idea as to whether they will enjoy it.

 

Second, your theory that a burp equates to 'TFTC' doesn't seem apt. 'TFTC' clearly means 'Thanks For The Cache'. Are you used to your friends and family simply burping out their thanks? Thankfully, that's not how meals at our home work.

[+sbell111]

All I see in these types of threads are cache owners DEMANDING thanks and respect. In no other walk of life does one get respect or thanks by demanding it. You earn it!

Where do you see anybody demanding thanks and respect? Just one link will satisfy my curiosity.

I didn't look for more than a few seconds before I found this one. I'm sure there are plenty more perfectly adequate examples.

It's also not the cache finders problem that you set up and hid loads of caches.

 

No, but it IS to their benefit. They should be thankful for it, and show it!

[knowschad]

you are trying to tell people with hundreds of hides how they should feel, and what they should do, about something that you have no experience at yet.

 

No I'm not. I am giving you my perspective. There are several people including yourself who have continually called people that post short or blank logs lazy.

 

All I have attempted from the beginning is to offer you an alternative perspective. A lot of posters feel that these logs are either a slight against them or that the person posting the log is lazy. I say that is not the only explanation. I've already detailed a number of times why I feel this way. You just don't happen to agree with my assessment. And that is ok. I respect your opinion. I would just like it if you would a least acknowledge that my opinion has some validity.

 

There are legitimate reasons for a short log... lack of typing skills would be one. However, I once knew a programmer that wrote huge volumes of C programming code using a pencil held in his mouth to type with (he had muscular dystrophy, if I remember right), so I don't really put too much stock in bad typing skills as a terribly valid excuse.

[+sbell111]

I think a cacher needs to have a few hides of their own before they can really understand this issue.

I think that you are wrong. It is reasonable to assume that a person can have a valid opinion on this and other issues without having previously hidden caches.

 

Also, I think that your constant attacks regarding this point say more about you than about the newbs you are chastising.

[+sbell111]

you are trying to tell people with hundreds of hides how they should feel, and what they should do, about something that you have no experience at yet.

 

No I'm not. I am giving you my perspective. There are several people including yourself who have continually called people that post short or blank logs lazy.

 

All I have attempted from the beginning is to offer you an alternative perspective. A lot of posters feel that these logs are either a slight against them or that the person posting the log is lazy. I say that is not the only explanation. I've already detailed a number of times why I feel this way. You just don't happen to agree with my assessment. And that is ok. I respect your opinion. I would just like it if you would a least acknowledge that my opinion has some validity.

 

There are legitimate reasons for a short log... lack of typing skills would be one. However, I once knew a programmer that wrote huge volumes of C programming code using a pencil held in his mouth to type with (he had muscular dystrophy, if I remember right), so I don't really put too much stock in bad typing skills as a terribly valid excuse.

Every excuse that people use to write the log of their choosing when playing a GAME is a perfectly valid one.

[+M 5]

The constant excuses and acceptance of bad logging practices is somewhat laughable, but expected. If validates my point that those that don't "get it" never will. We can only hope to educate the new cachers that monkey see, monkey do this increasing problem. Which is part of my point about Groundspeak taking action. I will admit that Groundspeak is in a catch-22 type situation, in that they are trying to grow their business, but in my opinion, they are cutting off their nose despite their face. As a business, you almost have to sell out to what is going to get the most members, but in the long run, it is not necessarily best for the game. I love geocaching, and hope thats not true. Geocaching started out a very social, community game. It still is and can be, but there are practices that are becoming more and more common, that are undermining that mentality. It is only going to accelerate with the growth of urban micro png's, powertrails, smartphones and Groundspeak allowing blank logs on them and looking into allowing them on the site, as well as the much lower monetary commitment. I know they can't dictate exactly what goes into a log, and don't want them too, but the long term goal should be to foster the community aspect, unfortunately I don't think Groundspeak has a long term goal in mind. Grow it big, then sell, is my guess, because I can't believe that they actually believe some of these things are good long term.

[+Flintstone5611]

By the same token, are we overestimating our contributions by expecting a log. Maybe our cache is pathetic (I have been criticized for my hide styles in the past) and the finder of our cache lives by the adage "If you can't say something nice it is better to say nothing at all".

 

Wouldn't this actually demonstrate a level of politeness and tact that is to be admired?

 

We have seen the people that stomp all over a cache without regard for the feelings of the CO (not talking about maintenance or constructive criticism, just infantile rudeness) and I would rather get a blank log than receive some childish chastisement from a cacher that hasn't put the effort into making a quality cache themselves!

 

At times we may not like the other option, when we see a blank log on our cache page.

[+M 5]

All I see in these types of threads are cache owners DEMANDING thanks and respect. In no other walk of life does one get respect or thanks by demanding it. You earn it!

Where do you see anybody demanding thanks and respect? Just one link will satisfy my curiosity.

I didn't look for more than a few seconds before I found this one. I'm sure there are plenty more perfectly adequate examples.

It's also not the cache finders problem that you set up and hid loads of caches.

 

No, but it IS to their benefit. They should be thankful for it, and show it!

 

Since when is "should" demanding. I'm begining to see the problem.

[Mr.Yuck]

So while probably MOST cache owners would PREFER better logs, it doesn't seem to be such a huge problem that Groundspeak needs to take any action on.

And you know this how, exactly?

 

http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/1365115-disallow-blank-logs

 

Status: declined

 

We now support blank logs instead of forcing the user to type things like "." and "TFTC" to post a log. We decided to do this since "I found it" is enough of an action for those who would prefer not to post a verbose log.

Jeremy Admin

 

I believe that is in direct response to the smart phone apps and logging practices. It is driven by the revenue gained from the use and sale of these apps, and not by what is best for geocaching!

 

Head of nail, meet hammer. In other words, I agree.

 

Why just over the weekend I saw online logs of a guy who joined in 2006, owns a few caches, but has found a little under 100 in those 5 years. He logged two caches in one day, and they were his first finds in 13 months. Yep, both "tftc". You get that smartphone in your hand, and it's just what you do, thumb out a tftc in the woods.

 

Oops sorry, didn't see the thread title. For the purposes of this example then, pretend he sent blank logs.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Mr.Yuck

[+sbell111]

The constant excuses and acceptance of bad logging practices is somewhat laughable, but expected. If validates my point that those that don't "get it" never will.

I agree that when you make the same argument and continue the same rudeness over and over and over again, it's unlikely to convince those who believe that you are wrong to think otherwise. Edited May 2, 2011 by sbell111

[+kpanko]

To those of you who believe blank logs are a sign of ungratefulness:

 

I think you are finding insult where no disrespect was meant.

 

In my experience, blank logs often come from those accounts who have found fewer than 50 caches. Therefore, here is what I imagine might be happening. A woman (could be a man, but I prefer to imagine women) gets a shiny new phone, and while checking out all the cool things it does, she finds the geocaching app.

 

"What's this? High tech treasure hunt? That sounds fun, sign me up!"

 

She goes out and manages to find her first one. "Wow, that was fun! Now, it says I should log this as found. Okay, press "Found it." Enter log? I don't know what that is. Press "Submit," and it worked!"

 

A blank log goes online, and she insults the cache owner without realizing it. Repeat a few dozen times, then she gets bored with geocaching.

 

Why should a new user stop to think about entering a log? Does she even realize that somebody will read it? Maybe she never found the screen that shows the previous logs, so she doesn't know what they are. How does a new user know what is appropriate to write? It's not easy to figure that out.

 

Do the new users realize that the caches are not put there by someone getting paid to do it? After all, it costs money to sign up, so maybe that money pays for the caches somehow.

 

I know it took me a long time to figure out how it all works.

 

Just go easy on the newbies.

[mresoteric]

Sure, your opinion has validity. As much as anyone else's, but we also don't have to agree with it for it to be valid.

 

I agree 100%. knowschad was making it sound as if I had no right to an opinion just because I have no hides. I don't agree with several posters here, but I respect their opinions and their right to express them.

 

And I have never tried to say that blank logs is because of laziness. I will say that I think it is more a lack of gratitude for something that others provide. A sense of entitlement, maybe.

 

Could some of it just be lack of awareness? The first few posts in the thread are from Starbrand and knowschad stating that they have emailed some of the blank loggers and explained how they felt and that 100% have responded by posting better logs. If it was lack of gratitude or a sense of entitlement, I don't think they would have 100% success rates.

 

Some are due to cachers on big caching runs. I think even Clanriffster admitted to posting cut and paste logs sometimes. (to give credit, he posted a very long cnp log as an example).

 

A lot of it might be due to lack of gratitude. But I think a lot of that is due to an over abundance of caches.

 

As knowschad has pointed out, I may change my opinion when I find more caches. But for now, I am having a lot of fun trudging through the swamps and getting my truck filthy dirty on muddy back roads. I can't imagine finding hundreds of caches in a day. But if I did, I doubt I would be able to post unique, longish logs for each find.

 

I think there are a lot of different reasons for these logs. But I don't think Groundspeak really wants to be about the business of figuring out which logs are worthy.

 

As far as blank logs go, didn't they used to include something like "logged from phone" in the app logs? Is it possible that there were a lot of complaints about the "logged from phone" logs? I bet there were similar threads like this complaining about those logs and that is why they decided to allow blank logs. Maybe cache owners shot themselves in the foot with such complaints.

 

SO, I guess we can stop writing in the physical log book too?

It is a real imposition on cachers to have to actually open the cache and pull that book out! We shouldn't be dictated to about what we have to do when we find the cache, should we? If we aren't dictated to about whether we should respond online for the cache we have found, then let's just throw it all out, and do only what we, in our opinions, think we should do!

 

Interesting you bring that up. I was just reading some of the nano threads and a couple of Coldgears' threads last night. It seems that a LOT of caches have very tiny logs which don't even allow you to sign your whole name. If people can barely sign their initials in a logbook, why would anyone expect much more online?

[mresoteric]

Using real words in logs is just much more polite than blank space or shortcuts to real speech. Not a generational thing either. Just good manners.

When you describe it that way, it really DOES seem like a generational issue.

 

Do you know how many times my mom threatened to take my phone because I didn't call or text her enough when away from the house? All she asked for was just acknowledgement that I was OK, so I started texting "here" or "OK" throughout the night. She was fine with that. She knew I was a live and able to move my fingers.

[mresoteric]

The constant excuses and acceptance of bad logging practices is somewhat laughable, but expected. If validates my point that those that don't "get it" never will. We can only hope to educate the new cachers that monkey see, monkey do this increasing problem. Which is part of my point about Groundspeak taking action. I will admit that Groundspeak is in a catch-22 type situation, in that they are trying to grow their business, but in my opinion, they are cutting off their nose despite their face. As a business, you almost have to sell out to what is going to get the most members, but in the long run, it is not necessarily best for the game. I love geocaching, and hope thats not true. Geocaching started out a very social, community game. It still is and can be, but there are practices that are becoming more and more common, that are undermining that mentality. It is only going to accelerate with the growth of urban micro png's, powertrails, smartphones and Groundspeak allowing blank logs on them and looking into allowing them on the site, as well as the much lower monetary commitment. I know they can't dictate exactly what goes into a log, and don't want them too, but the long term goal should be to foster the community aspect, unfortunately I don't think Groundspeak has a long term goal in mind. Grow it big, then sell, is my guess, because I can't believe that they actually believe some of these things are good long term.

 

.

[mresoteric]

The constant excuses and acceptance of bad logging practices is somewhat laughable, but expected. If validates my point that those that don't "get it" never will.

I agree that when you make the same argument and continue the same rudeness over and over and over again, it's unlikely to convince those who believe that you are wrong to think otherwise.

 

Or when you summarily dismiss someone because they haven't cached long enough or hidden enough caches.

[mresoteric]

To those of you who believe blank logs are a sign of ungratefulness:

 

I think you are finding insult where no disrespect was meant.

 

In my experience, blank logs often come from those accounts who have found fewer than 50 caches. Therefore, here is what I imagine might be happening. A woman (could be a man, but I prefer to imagine women) gets a shiny new phone, and while checking out all the cool things it does, she finds the geocaching app.

 

"What's this? High tech treasure hunt? That sounds fun, sign me up!"

 

She goes out and manages to find her first one. "Wow, that was fun! Now, it says I should log this as found. Okay, press "Found it." Enter log? I don't know what that is. Press "Submit," and it worked!"

 

A blank log goes online, and she insults the cache owner without realizing it. Repeat a few dozen times, then she gets bored with geocaching.

 

Why should a new user stop to think about entering a log? Does she even realize that somebody will read it? Maybe she never found the screen that shows the previous logs, so she doesn't know what they are. How does a new user know what is appropriate to write? It's not easy to figure that out.

 

Do the new users realize that the caches are not put there by someone getting paid to do it? After all, it costs money to sign up, so maybe that money pays for the caches somehow.

 

I know it took me a long time to figure out how it all works.

 

Just go easy on the newbies.

 

Thank you for making one of my points a lot clearer than I was able to.

 

Perhaps a lot of the complaints arise from people who have been playing this game so long that they just don't understand how easy it is for someone with no prior history to do just what you described.

[+StarBrand]

To those of you who believe blank logs are a sign of ungratefulness:

 

I think you are finding insult where no disrespect was meant.

 

In my experience, blank logs often come from those accounts who have found fewer than 50 caches. Therefore, here is what I imagine might be happening. A woman (could be a man, but I prefer to imagine women) gets a shiny new phone, and while checking out all the cool things it does, she finds the geocaching app.

 

"What's this? High tech treasure hunt? That sounds fun, sign me up!"

 

She goes out and manages to find her first one. "Wow, that was fun! Now, it says I should log this as found. Okay, press "Found it." Enter log? I don't know what that is. Press "Submit," and it worked!"

 

A blank log goes online, and she insults the cache owner without realizing it. Repeat a few dozen times, then she gets bored with geocaching.

 

Why should a new user stop to think about entering a log? Does she even realize that somebody will read it? Maybe she never found the screen that shows the previous logs, so she doesn't know what they are. How does a new user know what is appropriate to write? It's not easy to figure that out.

 

Do the new users realize that the caches are not put there by someone getting paid to do it? After all, it costs money to sign up, so maybe that money pays for the caches somehow.

 

I know it took me a long time to figure out how it all works.

 

Just go easy on the newbies.

 

Thank you for making one of my points a lot clearer than I was able to.

 

Perhaps a lot of the complaints arise from people who have been playing this game so long that they just don't understand how easy it is for someone with no prior history to do just what you described.

See post #2

[mresoteric]

To those of you who believe blank logs are a sign of ungratefulness:

 

I think you are finding insult where no disrespect was meant.

 

In my experience, blank logs often come from those accounts who have found fewer than 50 caches. Therefore, here is what I imagine might be happening. A woman (could be a man, but I prefer to imagine women) gets a shiny new phone, and while checking out all the cool things it does, she finds the geocaching app.

 

"What's this? High tech treasure hunt? That sounds fun, sign me up!"

 

She goes out and manages to find her first one. "Wow, that was fun! Now, it says I should log this as found. Okay, press "Found it." Enter log? I don't know what that is. Press "Submit," and it worked!"

 

A blank log goes online, and she insults the cache owner without realizing it. Repeat a few dozen times, then she gets bored with geocaching.

 

Why should a new user stop to think about entering a log? Does she even realize that somebody will read it? Maybe she never found the screen that shows the previous logs, so she doesn't know what they are. How does a new user know what is appropriate to write? It's not easy to figure that out.

 

Do the new users realize that the caches are not put there by someone getting paid to do it? After all, it costs money to sign up, so maybe that money pays for the caches somehow.

 

I know it took me a long time to figure out how it all works.

 

Just go easy on the newbies.

 

Thank you for making one of my points a lot clearer than I was able to.

 

Perhaps a lot of the complaints arise from people who have been playing this game so long that they just don't understand how easy it is for someone with no prior history to do just what you described.

See post #2

 

Seep post #127

[+Flintstone5611]

See post #2

 

See post #127

 

See me fall asleep from boredom.

[knowschad]

See post #2

 

See post #127

 

See me fall asleep from boredom.

 

See post #1

[knowschad]

Sure, your opinion has validity. As much as anyone else's, but we also don't have to agree with it for it to be valid.

 

I agree 100%. knowschad was making it sound as if I had no right to an opinion just because I have no hides. I don't agree with several posters here, but I respect their opinions and their right to express them.

No.. knowschad was not making it sound like that. That is how you were interpreting what knowschad was trying to say. What I was trying to say is that, until you have some hides, you do not, and can not, know what is is like to be a cache owner. You can imagine, you can empathise, and you can guess, but you can't speak for an experienced cache owner. Which is what I felt like you were doing.

[+SooMukwas]

I think those two need to get a room, wow, what tension between them!

 

Oh, and see post #134.

[knowschad]

I think those two need to get a room, wow, what tension between them!

 

Oh, and see post #134.

 

If you mean me and mresoteric... no. Its not like that. We are having some disagreement, but I think we are being pretty civil about it. If you mean some other two... that could be.

[+BCandMsKitty]

Well, whatever the reason ... blank logs suck!

[knowschad]

Well, whatever the reason ... blank logs suck!

 

See post #1

[mresoteric]

I think those two need to get a room, wow, what tension between them!

 

Oh, and see post #134.

 

If you mean me and mresoteric... no. Its not like that. We are having some disagreement, but I think we are being pretty civil about it. If you mean some other two... that could be.

 

And no tension between Starbrand and me either. I was just pointing out that I was aware of his post since I had just referenced it about 4 posts earlier.

 

And I think knowschad is beginning to understand what I am trying to say. I'm not speaking from the point of view of a cache owner. Of course I have no idea how an owner actually feels until I own a few caches. (though I can reasonaby make assumptions of how I would feel)

 

I have already stated that I understand why a cache owner might feel the way he and others feel.

 

Now me and M...... well, we won't go there. LOL (Laughing Out Loud)

[+Flintstone5611]

Well, whatever the reason ... blank logs suck!

 

See post #1

 

See Spot run?

[mresoteric]

Well, whatever the reason ... blank logs suck!

 

See post #1

 

+1 (Laughing Out Loud because I get your humorous use of the "See post" posts and hoping I have added enough characters to my post.)

[+kpanko]

See post #1

I think we're going in circles. (See post #144.)

Edited May 2, 2011 by kpanko

[knowschad]

See post #1

I think we're going in circles. (See post #144.)

 

I think you may be right

[+BCandMsKitty]

See post #1

I think we're going in circles. (See post #144.)

So why should this thread be any different than hundreds of others here!

[knowschad]

You know... I've noticed a few logs on some of my caches and others in this area that are logged as a find but are completely blank! Is typing even 4 letters too much of a problem to do now?

 

Maybe I should e-mail the finder and ask if they actually found them or was it logged by mistake as nothing at all was typed.....

[+sbell111]

I think those two need to get a room, wow, what tension between them!

 

Oh, and see post #134.

 

If you mean me and mresoteric... no. Its not like that. We are having some disagreement, but I think we are being pretty civil about it. If you mean some other two... that could be.

Well, he is, anyway. When you tell someone that he doesn't have the experience to have a valid opinion, you are not being civil.

[knowschad]

I think those two need to get a room, wow, what tension between them!

 

Oh, and see post #134.

 

If you mean me and mresoteric... no. Its not like that. We are having some disagreement, but I think we are being pretty civil about it. If you mean some other two... that could be.

Well, he is, anyway. When you tell someone that he doesn't have the experience to have a valid opinion, you are not being civil.

 

There you go again... sprinkling your glittery happy dust all over the forums.

Edited May 2, 2011 by knowschad

[+TomToad]

Well, I have over 600 finds and 9 active hides, and my opinion is that blank logs are simply blank logs. There could be a variety of reasons for them, from ignorance all the way through rudeness and inconsiderateness, but by the time they hit my in-box, they're all the same. Now what really bother's me are wet logs.

 

BTW, I really do appreciate when people take the time to write a nice log, and I love reading them, but I don't get in a head-spin over those times that don't