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Forget about "TFTC" logs...


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If you do allow for the fact that some cache finders use 'TFTC' as an honest expression of thanks, I think that it is unreasonable to expect them to change just for your aesthetic.

 

Perhaps it would be more appropriate to change your expectations than to try to change the world.

 

Thanks fr your opinion but I was raised to speak out for things I believe in and try to change the world for the better. Letting other folks know how I feel is an important first step.

 

Therefore I am strongly agreeing with NYPaddleCachers above post. Education of what our Geocaching expectations and common moires are is important.

"You can't thank me this way because it will hurt my feelings. You must thank me in teh way that I require." Yeah. That's for the better. :rolleyes:

<_< Haven't you got something better to do? Good grief!!

I was raised to speak out for things I believe in and try to change the world for the better. Letting other folks know how I feel is an important first step.
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. . . I was raised to speak out for things I believe in . . .

 

Education of what our Geocaching expectations and common moires are is important.

I believe in proper spelling, therefore I am speaking out about the spelling of "mores."

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. . . I was raised to speak out for things I believe in . . .

 

Education of what our Geocaching expectations and common moires are is important.

I believe in proper spelling, therefore I am speaking out about the spelling of "mores."

oops - spell check is not my friend........ thanks..... B)

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. . . I was raised to speak out for things I believe in . . .

 

Education of what our Geocaching expectations and common moires are is important.

I believe in proper spelling, therefore I am speaking out about the spelling of "mores."

 

This one is pretty common: Moire_circle_2.jpg

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I wonder which group has higher blood pressure? "Thank me in the manner I am accustomed to" or "Glad someone found my cache regardless of how they expressed it"?

Asking folks to raise the bar a bit on logs has yet to cause me any blood pressure issues.... :unsure:

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I wonder which group has higher blood pressure? "Thank me in the manner I am accustomed to" or "Glad someone found my cache regardless of how they expressed it"?

Asking folks to raise the bar a bit on logs has yet to cause me any blood pressure issues.... :unsure:

 

Probably not. But I bet you worry about your logs a lot more than sbell does.

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I wonder which group has higher blood pressure? "Thank me in the manner I am accustomed to" or "Glad someone found my cache regardless of how they expressed it"?

 

Probably the third group that is so concerned that some people have a preference. :wacko:

 

Or maybe the fourth that is getting really stressed out because some ask questions in a forum and forget to put witty emoticons in their posts. :omnomnom:

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I wonder which group has higher blood pressure? "Thank me in the manner I am accustomed to" or "Glad someone found my cache regardless of how they expressed it"?

 

At the (huge) risk of getting that whole thing started again, there is a huge difference between "Thank me in the manner I am accustomed to" and expressing a dislike for certain forms of logs.

 

Likewise, there is a huge difference between saying, "Glad someone found my cache regardless of how they expressed it" and "You should just be glad someone found your cache regardless of how they expressed it.

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If you do allow for the fact that some cache finders use 'TFTC' as an honest expression of thanks, I think that it is unreasonable to expect them to change just for your aesthetic.

 

Perhaps it would be more appropriate to change your expectations than to try to change the world.

 

Says the guy that is apparently trying to change the world. Irony++

 

I was raised to speak out for things I believe in and try to change the world for the better. Letting other folks know how I feel is an important first step.

 

Your "better" is not everyone's better. Actually most people haven't really been pushing a "better" just a preference for one way over the other.

Edited by Castle Mischief
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At the (huge) risk of getting that whole thing started again, there is a huge difference between "Thank me in the manner I am accustomed to" and expressing a dislike for certain forms of logs.

 

I would agree except that is not what has occurred. If it had remained at just disliking blank logs or tftc logs, then I would say there was just dislike for certain forms of logs. But we have some who are also complaining about how some post their logs. ie: posting of blank logs in the field and then editing them later. This goes beyond just dislike of a certain type of log. This creeps into a dislike of logging styles.

 

 

Likewise, there is a huge difference between saying, "Glad someone found my cache regardless of how they expressed it" and "You should just be glad someone found your cache regardless of how they expressed it.

 

I honestly don't see the difference between those 2 statements.

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At the (huge) risk of getting that whole thing started again, there is a huge difference between "Thank me in the manner I am accustomed to" and expressing a dislike for certain forms of logs.

 

I would agree except that is not what has occurred. If it had remained at just disliking blank logs or tftc logs, then I would say there was just dislike for certain forms of logs. But we have some who are also complaining about how some post their logs. ie: posting of blank logs in the field and then editing them later.

 

No. Once again... that was a suggestion for how to post blank logs and still let the cache owner aware of when you added to your blank log later. It was aimed specifically at people that said that they did that.

 

This goes beyond just dislike of a certain type of log. This creeps into a dislike of logging styles.

Isn't it possible for you to understand that one can express a dislike of a logging style without insisting that people change their logging style?

 

Likewise, there is a huge difference between saying, "Glad someone found my cache regardless of how they expressed it" and "You should just be glad someone found your cache regardless of how they expressed it.

 

I honestly don't see the difference between those 2 statements.

I know you don't.

Edited by knowschad
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If you do allow for the fact that some cache finders use 'TFTC' as an honest expression of thanks, I think that it is unreasonable to expect them to change just for your aesthetic.

 

Perhaps it would be more appropriate to change your expectations than to try to change the world.

 

Says the guy that is apparently trying to change the world. Irony++

 

I was raised to speak out for things I believe in and try to change the world for the better. Letting other folks know how I feel is an important first step.

 

Your "better" is not everyone's better. Actually most people haven't really been pushing a "better" just a preference for one way over the other.

You should probably tell StarBrand that, since he (she?) is the one that wrote that bit of verbiage.
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I would like to reserve the right to post a blank log. Everybody's mama always said if ya don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all.

 

A blank log with hidden text once you highlight it. Wonder if thats what some blank loggers do...

 

I.E

 

cacher123 found it 8/9/10

 

SURPRISE!!!! and btw, I found it.

 

(highlight the space between this sentence and cacher123)

Edited by sword fern
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At the (huge) risk of getting that whole thing started again, there is a huge difference between "Thank me in the manner I am accustomed to" and expressing a dislike for certain forms of logs.

 

I would agree except that is not what has occurred. If it had remained at just disliking blank logs or tftc logs, then I would say there was just dislike for certain forms of logs. But we have some who are also complaining about how some post their logs. ie: posting of blank logs in the field and then editing them later.

 

No. Once again... that was a suggestion for how to post blank logs and still let the cache owner aware of when you added to your blank log later. It was aimed specifically at people that said that they did that.

 

This goes beyond just dislike of a certain type of log. This creeps into a dislike of logging styles.

Isn't it possible for you to understand that one can express a dislike of a logging style without insisting that people change their logging style?

 

Likewise, there is a huge difference between saying, "Glad someone found my cache regardless of how they expressed it" and "You should just be glad someone found your cache regardless of how they expressed it.

 

I honestly don't see the difference between those 2 statements.

I know you don't.

I honestly do not understand how anyone can be challenged to understand the differences that *seem* to be being debated here.

 

As a cache owner I appreciate and look forward to getting nice, appreciative logs for my hides. I am disappointed when I get TFTC or similar logs for caches that I believe deserve better. So far I haven't received any blank logs but I expect it will happen. I will be disappointed when it does.

 

I certainly wish cachers would post nice, wordy logs more often. I appreciate that as a cache owner. I do not go through the prior logs on my caches to see if someone may have edited a previous find, DNF, note, etc. as that would seem to me to be waaaay too obsessive. If someone decides to edit a log on one of my caches and they want to let me know because they think it is important, I would hope they will email me. Hasn't happened yet and I don't expect it to happen in the future.

 

I am not going to stop looking for potential cache locations and I am not going to archive any of my caches due to what I consider to be poor logs. I hide caches that I would enjoy finding and that I believe other cachers will enjoy finding. I like reading good logs and I dislike TFTC logs because I perceive them as lazy and inconsiderate most of the time.

 

I do believe the recent explosion of smart phone cachers has introduced a far more casual aspect to our game. I would certainly support an effort to do a better job of educating new cachers on appropriate and expected logging practices. Just because smart phone users aren't used to contributing nice wordy logs doesn't mean we shouldn't be attempting to encourage them to do so.

 

This really boils down to a simple question of expectations. Any group can allow expectations of appropriate behavior to change. The question I see is if the general population of cachers should choose to accept lower quality logs as an inevitible evolution of the game.

 

I vote no. Continue to ask for, hope for and expect good quality logs.

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Ummmm yea, so anyways.

 

I just hid my first cache last weekend. Only one find so far. I would have been really bummed if it was a blank log.

 

DOOOOOD STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO THINK!!!!!1

 

Isn't that exactly what you are doing with that statement? This poster has the right to say that he would be bummed if it was a blank log!

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Ummmm yea, so anyways.

 

I just hid my first cache last weekend. Only one find so far. I would have been really bummed if it was a blank log.

 

DOOOOOD STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO THINK!!!!!1

 

Isn't that exactly what you are doing with that statement? This poster has the right to say that he would be bummed if it was a blank log!

I think he was being facetious.:ph34r:

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Ummmm yea, so anyways.

 

I just hid my first cache last weekend. Only one find so far. I would have been really bummed if it was a blank log.

 

DOOOOOD STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO THINK!!!!!1

 

Isn't that exactly what you are doing with that statement? This poster has the right to say that he would be bummed if it was a blank log!

I think he was being facetious.:ph34r:

 

Hey, something we agree on. :P

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Ummmm yea, so anyways.

 

I just hid my first cache last weekend. Only one find so far. I would have been really bummed if it was a blank log.

 

DOOOOOD STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO THINK!!!!!1

 

Isn't that exactly what you are doing with that statement? This poster has the right to say that he would be bummed if it was a blank log!

I think he was being facetious.:ph34r:

 

Hey, something we agree on. :P

 

Oh.

That's what I get for not reading everything that's been posted in the last 5 days.

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I am not going to stop looking for potential cache locations and I am not going to archive any of my caches due to what I consider to be poor logs. I hide caches that I would enjoy finding and that I believe other cachers will enjoy finding. I like reading good logs and I dislike TFTC logs because I perceive them as lazy and inconsiderate most of the time.

The key word there is "perception." You perceive them as lazy & inconsiderate, but to many cachers who leave a "TFTC" log, being inconsiderate is the furthest thing from their mind. And what gives you the right to say a person is lazy simply because they don't log in a manner you expect?

 

I do believe the recent explosion of smart phone cachers has introduced a far more casual aspect to our game. I would certainly support an effort to do a better job of educating new cachers on appropriate and expected logging practices. Just because smart phone users aren't used to contributing nice wordy logs doesn't mean we shouldn't be attempting to encourage them to do so.

Here we go again, us smartphone users taking the blame. Every time someone debates short logs on this forum, the first words out of their mouths are smartphone users. I find it hard to believe that short logs were not around before the introduction of smartphones to Geocaching.

 

Just because you expect a certain logging practice doesn't make it "appropriate," and surely doesn't mean anyone has to conform to your expectations. When you see a blank or TFTC log, are you absolutely certain it comes from a smartphone cacher? Isn't it possible some of the logs you deem unworthy actually come from cachers who use GPSr's? What about those who do use a smartphone to cache, but come home only to log "TFTC" on the computer? Blame the cacher, not the device they use. There are plenty hand held users who don't live up to your expectations as well, but I don't see any of you complaining about them. There are more than a fair share of long time cachers in this forum who, in my opinion, hurt this game with their holier than thou attitude towards newbies & smartphone users...hurt it far more than those who post short logs. Smartphones & those who use them to cache are here to stay, it's something many of you will have to learn to accept. Cachers don't have to be educated merely because they use a smartphone. Maybe because they are NEW, but not because of the device they use. We were all new at one point and each & every one of us had to be educated. Either we educated ourselves by reading the material offered to us, or by others who were already familiar with the game. The negativity towards newbies & smartphones users in this forum is ridiculous. My smartphone has allowed my family & I to play this great game when otherwise we wouldn't have been able to, and I'm thankful for it. I'm not going to let anyone drive me away because they don't like how I log or the device I use.

 

This really boils down to a simple question of expectations. Any group can allow expectations of appropriate behavior to change. The question I see is if the general population of cachers should choose to accept lower quality logs as an inevitible evolution of the game.

 

I vote no. Continue to ask for, hope for and expect good quality logs.

There are far more "good," longer logs than there are blank and "TFTC" only logs. Why can't you enjoy those instead of complaining about the ones that aren't? A cacher who leaves a short log isn't necessarily doing anything wrong, they're just doing it differently. I plan on hiding my first cache this summer and yes, I just may be disappointed when someone leaves a short log, but if that's the way they want to play this game, it's their prerogative. I'm surely not going to accuse them of being lazy or a bad cacher. There are far too many other examples of "bad cachers" out there that should be addressed to worry about how someone handles their logs.

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At the (huge) risk of getting that whole thing started again, there is a huge difference between "Thank me in the manner I am accustomed to" and expressing a dislike for certain forms of logs.

 

I would agree except that is not what has occurred. If it had remained at just disliking blank logs or tftc logs, then I would say there was just dislike for certain forms of logs. But we have some who are also complaining about how some post their logs. ie: posting of blank logs in the field and then editing them later.

 

No. Once again... that was a suggestion for how to post blank logs and still let the cache owner aware of when you added to your blank log later. It was aimed specifically at people that said that they did that.

 

This goes beyond just dislike of a certain type of log. This creeps into a dislike of logging styles.

Isn't it possible for you to understand that one can express a dislike of a logging style without insisting that people change their logging style?

 

BTW, I would really like to thank you for putting a great cache pandas pleasure. I enjoyed finding it.

Likewise, there is a huge difference between saying, "Glad someone found my cache regardless of how they expressed it" and "You should just be glad someone found your cache regardless of how they expressed it.

 

I honestly don't see the difference between those 2 statements.

I know you don't.

I honestly do not understand how anyone can be challenged to understand the differences that *seem* to be being debated here.

 

As a cache owner I appreciate and look forward to getting nice, appreciative logs for my hides. I am disappointed when I get TFTC or similar logs for caches that I believe deserve better. So far I haven't received any blank logs but I expect it will happen. I will be disappointed when it does.

 

I certainly wish cachers would post nice, wordy logs more often. I appreciate that as a cache owner. I do not go through the prior logs on my caches to see if someone may have edited a previous find, DNF, note, etc. as that would seem to me to be waaaay too obsessive. If someone decides to edit a log on one of my caches and they want to let me know because they think it is important, I would hope they will email me. Hasn't happened yet and I don't expect it to happen in the future.

 

I am not going to stop looking for potential cache locations and I am not going to archive any of my caches due to what I consider to be poor logs. I hide caches that I would enjoy finding and that I believe other cachers will enjoy finding. I like reading good logs and I dislike TFTC logs because I perceive them as lazy and inconsiderate most of the time.

 

I do believe the recent explosion of smart phone cachers has introduced a far more casual aspect to our game. I would certainly support an effort to do a better job of educating new cachers on appropriate and expected logging practices. Just because smart phone users aren't used to contributing nice wordy logs doesn't mean we shouldn't be attempting to encourage them to do so.

 

This really boils down to a simple question of expectations. Any group can allow expectations of appropriate behavior to change. The question I see is if the general population of cachers should choose to accept lower quality logs as an inevitible evolution of the game.

 

I vote no. Continue to ask for, hope for and expect good quality logs.

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....

There are far more "good," longer logs than there are blank and "TFTC" only logs. Why can't you enjoy those instead of complaining about the ones that aren't?

....

Why can't I do both? ...and not really complaining - just an attempt at educating -- Again - is there something wrong with trying to raise the bar a bit??

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I am not going to stop looking for potential cache locations and I am not going to archive any of my caches due to what I consider to be poor logs. I hide caches that I would enjoy finding and that I believe other cachers will enjoy finding. I like reading good logs and I dislike TFTC logs because I perceive them as lazy and inconsiderate most of the time.

The key word there is "perception." You perceive them as lazy & inconsiderate, but to many cachers who leave a "TFTC" log, being inconsiderate is the furthest thing from their mind. And what gives you the right to say a person is lazy simply because they don't log in a manner you expect?

Wrastro never said that people who log with 'TFTC' are lazy. He said that he perceives them as lazy. Do you understand the difference?

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I received a "TFTC" log in the inbox today on an ammo box with a great view. Despite living in a sub-arctic climate, there were no baby seals readily available. So I just punched the Kitty Cat in the face. He pee's on everything, so he deserved it anyways.

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I received a "TFTC" log in the inbox today on an ammo box with a great view. Despite living in a sub-arctic climate, there were no baby seals readily available. So I just punched the Kitty Cat in the face. He pee's on everything, so he deserved it anyways.

 

I hope you aren't feeling guilty for the cat. It wasn't your fault... I blame those loggers. TFTC punched the cat, not you. :lol:

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Why can't I do both? ...and not really complaining - just an attempt at educating -- Again - is there something wrong with trying to raise the bar a bit??

Maybe they don't want to be educated. I wouldn't even say they NEED to be educated.

 

Excerpt from the Knowledge Books:

3.1. Logging of All Physical Geocaches

 

Physical geocaches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

For physical caches all logging requirements beyond finding the geocache and signing the log are considered additional logging requirements (ALRs) and must be optional. Cache finders can choose whether or not to attempt or accomplish such tasks.

 

"Educating" cachers on how to log implies an attempt to get them to log according to the rules, and rules clearly state logging online is optional. So you can call it an attempt to educate, but it's still an attempt to get other cachers to log in a manner you prefer. I'm not here to say whether a TFTC log is right or wrong or whether or not I agree with it. I'm just saying it's up to the individual cacher and it's not our place to tell them how they should log.

 

Wrastro never said that people who log with 'TFTC' are lazy. He said that he perceives them as lazy. Do you understand the difference?

Considering some of your other posts similar to this, I'm guessing your condescension & attempt at making others look foolish & unintelligent is intentional? To say you perceive a short log as lazy is to say you believe the one who created such a log to be lazy for doing it. I understand, do you?

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Why can't I do both? ...and not really complaining - just an attempt at educating -- Again - is there something wrong with trying to raise the bar a bit??

Maybe they don't want to be educated. I wouldn't even say they NEED to be educated.

 

Excerpt from the Knowledge Books:

3.1. Logging of All Physical Geocaches

 

Physical geocaches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

For physical caches all logging requirements beyond finding the geocache and signing the log are considered additional logging requirements (ALRs) and must be optional. Cache finders can choose whether or not to attempt or accomplish such tasks.

 

"Educating" cachers on how to log implies an attempt to get them to log according to the rules, and rules clearly state logging online is optional. So you can call it an attempt to educate, but it's still an attempt to get other cachers to log in a manner you prefer. I'm not here to say whether a TFTC log is right or wrong or whether or not I agree with it. I'm just saying it's up to the individual cacher and it's not our place to tell them how they should log.

 

Wrastro never said that people who log with 'TFTC' are lazy. He said that he perceives them as lazy. Do you understand the difference?

Considering some of your other posts similar to this, I'm guessing your condescension & attempt at making others look foolish & unintelligent is intentional? To say you perceive a short log as lazy is to say you believe the one who created such a log to be lazy for doing it. I understand, do you?

 

Yup... thought so. Zero caches owned. Please don't judge cache owners until you are one. Put out some good caches, that you spend a lot of time thinking about and planning, go spend some serious money on them, make trips to maintain them when you'd rather be out looking for caches, and then come back here and tell us how to feel about blank logs. Your attitude toward that may be exactly the same, but I'm guessing it will be quite different.

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Yup... thought so. Zero caches owned. Please don't judge cache owners until you are one.

 

Why don't you quit judging posters based on their hide counts!

 

We are still cache finders and I think we have just as much insight into the logging process as you do. I don't care how much you dislike certain logs, you still have no right to call loggers lazy, inconsiderate, etc. without knowing why they logged the way they did. And no, people have not been saying they "perceive" the logs as lazy. They have been calling loggers lazy. And nobody needs to have any hides to understand and comment on that.

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Yup... thought so. Zero caches owned. Please don't judge cache owners until you are one.

 

Why don't you quit judging posters based on their hide counts!

 

We are still cache finders and I think we have just as much insight into the logging process as you do. I don't care how much you dislike certain logs, you still have no right to call loggers lazy, inconsiderate, etc. without knowing why they logged the way they did. And no, people have not been saying they "perceive" the logs as lazy. They have been calling loggers lazy. And nobody needs to have any hides to understand and comment on that.

 

Because they are judging me. Ever hear of "walk a mile in my shoes"? You do not have insight into being a cache owner.

 

I'm about ready to put you on my ignore list, by the way.

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Why can't I do both? ...and not really complaining - just an attempt at educating -- Again - is there something wrong with trying to raise the bar a bit??

Maybe they don't want to be educated. I wouldn't even say they NEED to be educated.

 

Excerpt from the Knowledge Books:

3.1. Logging of All Physical Geocaches

 

Physical geocaches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed.

 

For physical caches all logging requirements beyond finding the geocache and signing the log are considered additional logging requirements (ALRs) and must be optional. Cache finders can choose whether or not to attempt or accomplish such tasks.

 

"Educating" cachers on how to log implies an attempt to get them to log according to the rules, and rules clearly state logging online is optional. So you can call it an attempt to educate, but it's still an attempt to get other cachers to log in a manner you prefer. I'm not here to say whether a TFTC log is right or wrong or whether or not I agree with it. I'm just saying it's up to the individual cacher and it's not our place to tell them how they should log.

 

Wrastro never said that people who log with 'TFTC' are lazy. He said that he perceives them as lazy. Do you understand the difference?

Considering some of your other posts similar to this, I'm guessing your condescension & attempt at making others look foolish & unintelligent is intentional? To say you perceive a short log as lazy is to say you believe the one who created such a log to be lazy for doing it. I understand, do you?

 

Not trying to force anybody to do anything they do not want to do.

 

Educating them about what most cache owners expect to see in a log is just advising folks of what this particular community (in general) does anyway. Once again, how is asking folks to raise the bar a bit such a bad thing??

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Yup... thought so. Zero caches owned. Please don't judge cache owners until you are one.

 

Why don't you quit judging posters based on their hide counts!

 

We are still cache finders and I think we have just as much insight into the logging process as you do.....

 

With all due respect - no, you don't.

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Because they are judging me. Ever hear of "walk a mile in my shoes"? You do not have insight into being a cache owner.

 

I can't speak for everyone else, but I am commenting on what I see you post. I have not bothered to go see how many caches you have hidden or found.

 

You are the only one that keeps bringing up hide counts. So much, btw, that I am wearing a cast now. I'm not blaming you for that. Just saying that after being told a few times that my opinion doesn't count just because I don't have any hides that I figured it was time to go hide a cache. I'm curious if it will change my opinion or not.

 

I'm about ready to put you on my ignore list, by the way.

 

Ok. Not sure how I am supposed to respond to that. You either do it or you don't. I'm not going to change my opinion because of it.

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Once again, how is asking folks to raise the bar a bit such a bad thing??

 

Because you are demeaning others in the process.

 

So I am suppose to troll through all of my cache listings (some of which are 9 years old with over 400 logs) and just hope that on the off chance I might accidently spot an edited log that I had not previously seen because some cachers are too dang lazy to thumb out a few words to take away a few precious moments of caching in the field!!!???!!! Thanks for clarifying that it not just my perception of a blank log but in fact some cachers are being lazy and inconsiderate - thinking of their logging habit more than caring about any polite notions.

 

My contention is that a blank online log is laziness and ungratefulness - by definition.

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A majority of non-new cachers that leave blank, tftc (only) and short cnp logs are lazy/ungrateful. The new cachers monkey see and monkey do this bad practice and should be shown a better way. Not too hard to understand.

Edited by M 5
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Yup... thought so. Zero caches owned. Please don't judge cache owners until you are one.

 

Why don't you quit judging posters based on their hide counts!

 

We are still cache finders and I think we have just as much insight into the logging process as you do.....

 

With all due respect - no, you don't.

 

Do you mean me personally or the we that I spoke of?

 

I'll admit since I am new that I don't have as much experience as others. But there are others that have posted who have much more experience than I do that share my opinion. How about them?

 

TL&MinBHIL has been at it 8 months and has 175 finds. Is that enough to earn the right to an opnion?

 

Azisbest has been caching since 2005 and has 3 hides, is that enough?

 

TerraViators have just over a year of experience, 1300+ finds, and 39 hides. Are they entitled to an opinion?

 

What is the magical hide or find count that qualifies a reader to disseminate the contents of a post and offer a reply?

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Once again, how is asking folks to raise the bar a bit such a bad thing??

 

Because you are demeaning others in the process.

 

So I am suppose to troll through all of my cache listings (some of which are 9 years old with over 400 logs) and just hope that on the off chance I might accidently spot an edited log that I had not previously seen because some cachers are too dang lazy to thumb out a few words to take away a few precious moments of caching in the field!!!???!!! Thanks for clarifying that it not just my perception of a blank log but in fact some cachers are being lazy and inconsiderate - thinking of their logging habit more than caring about any polite notions.

 

My contention is that a blank online log is laziness and ungratefulness - by definition.

I've never denied those word - I stand by them. Many responses in this thread have proved the point.

 

Again - is asking folks to raise the bar a bit such a bad thing??

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Yup... thought so. Zero caches owned. Please don't judge cache owners until you are one.

 

Why don't you quit judging posters based on their hide counts!

 

We are still cache finders and I think we have just as much insight into the logging process as you do.....

 

With all due respect - no, you don't.

 

Do you mean me personally or the we that I spoke of?

 

I'll admit since I am new that I don't have as much experience as others. But there are others that have posted who have much more experience than I do that share my opinion. How about them?

 

TL&MinBHIL has been at it 8 months and has 175 finds. Is that enough to earn the right to an opnion?

 

Azisbest has been caching since 2005 and has 3 hides, is that enough?

 

TerraViators have just over a year of experience, 1300+ finds, and 39 hides. Are they entitled to an opinion?

 

What is the magical hide or find count that qualifies a reader to disseminate the contents of a post and offer a reply?

You're right. You have as much insight into logging as others. We're talking about a simple e-log. It doesn't take much insight to get it. Don't worry about it. The forums are a bully pulpit alot of times. You learn to tolerate it, but don't ever accecpt it.

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Yup... thought so. Zero caches owned. Please don't judge cache owners until you are one.

 

Why don't you quit judging posters based on their hide counts!

 

We are still cache finders and I think we have just as much insight into the logging process as you do.....

 

With all due respect - no, you don't.

 

Do you mean me personally or the we that I spoke of?

 

I'll admit since I am new that I don't have as much experience as others. But there are others that have posted who have much more experience than I do that share my opinion. How about them?

 

TL&MinBHIL has been at it 8 months and has 175 finds. Is that enough to earn the right to an opnion?

 

Azisbest has been caching since 2005 and has 3 hides, is that enough?

 

TerraViators have just over a year of experience, 1300+ finds, and 39 hides. Are they entitled to an opinion?

 

What is the magical hide or find count that qualifies a reader to disseminate the contents of a post and offer a reply?

You and any others that have not yet had the pleasure of owning and caring for a quality, well thought out, well stocked cache hidden in a special place long term.

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Because they are judging me. Ever hear of "walk a mile in my shoes"? You do not have insight into being a cache owner.

 

I can't speak for everyone else, but I am commenting on what I see you post. I have not bothered to go see how many caches you have hidden or found.

 

You are the only one that keeps bringing up hide counts. So much, btw, that I am wearing a cast now. I'm not blaming you for that. Just saying that after being told a few times that my opinion doesn't count just because I don't have any hides that I figured it was time to go hide a cache. I'm curious if it will change my opinion or not.

 

I'm about ready to put you on my ignore list, by the way.

 

Ok. Not sure how I am supposed to respond to that. You either do it or you don't. I'm not going to change my opinion because of it.

I don't care if you're wearing a cast, or what your reason is for not having any hides. I don't even care if you ever have any hides. All I am saying is that you don't know what a cache owner's experience is because you are not a cache owner. Why can you not understand that?

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