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Dylan coin in the works

ECplus3

By ECplus3
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ECplus3

+ECplus3

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have been a Bob Dylan fan as long as I can remember. The first album I ever bought was Desire in 1977 after hearing "Hurricane" on the radio. I still have that record too, although it is in pretty rough shape. :)

 

In 1966 graphic designer Milton Glaser had designed the iconic poster of Dylan with the kaleidescope hair for CBS and it was included in Dylan's greatest hits package Blonde on Blonde (my second album purchase -- though by that time the poster was no longer included :().

 

I have been thinking of doing a Dylan coin for some time now, but I could not come up with a design that I was satisfied with. I kept comparing it to Glaser's simple yet effective poster (that he probably knocked off in a few minutes).

 

Then recent threads on this forum got me thinking and I decided to contact Milton Glaser Inc. about licensing the artwork for the coin design. You know what? They were excited about the project! They had never been approached about using any of Mr. Glaser's works in coin form and were genuinely intrigued by the whole trackable coin phenomenon. They even provided me with vector artwork and are collaborating on the design to get the colours exactly right (or as right as the mint can reproduce with their colour palette).

 

One thing we are still working out is the licensing fee and royalty structure. They usually deal in numbers like 'thousands' or 'hundreds of thousands' so were a little scepticle of my 'couple of hundred' production run. The price also surprised them. They were assuming a price of around $25 to $40 per coin whereas I plan on a $10 pricetag.

 

So, I'd like to guage interest in this design and present them with some numbers to help come to an agreement.

 

The coin will be black nickel with IHE and will measure 2" tall by 3mm thick. It will be trackable and have its own icon.

 

Dylan2_front.jpg

Dylan2_back.jpg

Edited by Eartha
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goosefraba1

+goosefraba1

Posted
Posted

Put me in for two (depending on the price... but at least one).... I love BOB! Man that is so cool that they are working with you! My favorite songs of his: Everybody must get stoned... It ain't me babe... A hard rain's a gonna fall.

 

Question... How possible would it be to get other famous posters... like a series. I'm thinking Jimi Hendrix '68 Pop Festival.

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purplepotter51

+purplepotter51

Posted
Posted

I've been a Bob Dylan fan for years...since the late 60's. Got the old 33 albums to document his pop evolution right until today. Very interested in adding such a geocoin or two to my growing geocoin collection. Would appreciate knowing when and how to acquire when this geocoin is avaialble. Thanks for the heads up!

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keewee

+keewee

Posted
Posted

That is so cool!!

 

Good on you for approaching them!! Maybe you need to produce two version - a geocaching version, and a Dylan enthusiasts version? Although, if you push it in the right circles then maybe you will sell thousands of them!

 

I'll probably buy one. :)

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Panther&Pine

+Panther&Pine

Posted
Posted

Let them buy a bunch and market it with the 'one of a kind number, with a registration location' deal on it to the fans- and they can do the mark up to what they think their market will take (bear? or bare? or am I missing one?). And you can do it here at what we expect to pay for a coin from the designer (what happens when coins go to eBay is a whole nother thing).

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kini_ont

+kini_ont

Posted
Posted

Ahh crud this is going to make me feel and sound old :blink: ... but I remember when Dylan played across Canada & the world finally with a band call The Hawks who went on to be The Band (Yah the ones who did Big Pink). They had a few days to relax (party :ph34r: ) in Peterborough Ontario). Looks like I'll be sending some more of my money your way :)

Now I'll go back to my rocking chair :anibad:

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ECplus3

+ECplus3

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Ahh crud this is going to make me feel and sound old :blink: ... but I remember when Dylan played across Canada & the world finally with a band call The Hawks who went on to be The Band (Yah the ones who did Big Pink). They had a few days to relax (party :ph34r: ) in Peterborough Ontario). Looks like I'll be sending some more of my money your way :)

Now I'll go back to my rocking chair :anibad:

 

Ted, you're puttin' my kids through college. ;)

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kini_ont

+kini_ont

Posted
Posted

Ahh crud this is going to make me feel and sound old :blink: ... but I remember when Dylan played across Canada & the world finally with a band call The Hawks who went on to be The Band (Yah the ones who did Big Pink). They had a few days to relax (party :ph34r: ) in Peterborough Ontario). Looks like I'll be sending some more of my money your way :)

Now I'll go back to my rocking chair :anibad:

 

Ted, you're puttin' my kids through college. ;)

:laughing::laughing:

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RedShoesGirl

RedShoesGirl

Posted
Posted

i am still wondering if dylan himself has to give permission to use his image on a coin. you have permission from the artist to use his art work, but that may not be an all-inclusive licensing for any image of the singer. i would imagine dylan would have to sign off on the project. not to be a spoil-sport, just looking at all the possibilities.

 

avroair, do you know?

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ECplus3

+ECplus3

Posted
  • Author
Posted

i am still wondering if dylan himself has to give permission to use his image on a coin. you have permission from the artist to use his art work, but that may not be an all-inclusive licensing for any image of the singer. i would imagine dylan would have to sign off on the project. not to be a spoil-sport, just looking at all the possibilities.

 

avroair, do you know?

 

I'm not trying to dodge the question. I'm still trying to track down Bob Dylan's management (wouldn't have thought it would be so hard).

 

One thing I have discovered though is that publicity (or 'personality') rights are not covered by any international agreement. Every country has a different way of handling it, and in the US each state handles it differently.

 

I also discovered that works of art are handled differently than photographs and that the courts often side with the artist -- even if a likeness is being sold for profit -- if the run is limited (the court cases still talk of numbers in the thousands).

 

Finally, a likeness appropriated for commercial use is not what I thought originally. Commercial use doesn't just mean that I want to make a buck off of his image. Commercial use specifically means that I am using his image to advertise an unrelated item. For example, if I used Bob Dylan's image to sell my other coins: that's bad. If I sell a coin with Bob Dylan's image on it: not so bad.

 

All that being said, I'm still trying to track down his manager/license holder. This is all regarding the second side of the coin. The front is fine as it is a work of art that in and of itself is not a recognizable likeness of Bob Dylan. The fact that everyone KNOWS that it is Bob Dylan is irrelevant. Mr. Glaser has never had to seek publicity rights to use the image.

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rockotter

+rockotter

Posted
Posted

As a lifelong Robert Zimmerman (err, Bob Dylan) fan, I hope to buy multiple copies of that coin! I love it! And by multiple, I mean at least one for me, one to travel, and one for my son Dylan (AKA DinoTrucker...I told you I am a Dylan fan).

 

How many roads must a man walk down

Before you call him a man?

Yes, 'n' how many seas must a white dove sail

Before she sleeps in the sand?

Yes, 'n' how many times must the cannon balls fly

Before they're forever banned?

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,

The answer is blowin' in the wind.

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RedShoesGirl

RedShoesGirl

Posted
Posted

i am still wondering if dylan himself has to give permission to use his image on a coin. you have permission from the artist to use his art work, but that may not be an all-inclusive licensing for any image of the singer. i would imagine dylan would have to sign off on the project. not to be a spoil-sport, just looking at all the possibilities.

 

avroair, do you know?

 

I'm not trying to dodge the question. I'm still trying to track down Bob Dylan's management (wouldn't have thought it would be so hard).

 

One thing I have discovered though is that publicity (or 'personality') rights are not covered by any international agreement. Every country has a different way of handling it, and in the US each state handles it differently.

 

I also discovered that works of art are handled differently than photographs and that the courts often side with the artist -- even if a likeness is being sold for profit -- if the run is limited (the court cases still talk of numbers in the thousands).

 

Finally, a likeness appropriated for commercial use is not what I thought originally. Commercial use doesn't just mean that I want to make a buck off of his image. Commercial use specifically means that I am using his image to advertise an unrelated item. For example, if I used Bob Dylan's image to sell my other coins: that's bad. If I sell a coin with Bob Dylan's image on it: not so bad.

 

All that being said, I'm still trying to track down his manager/license holder. This is all regarding the second side of the coin. The front is fine as it is a work of art that in and of itself is not a recognizable likeness of Bob Dylan. The fact that everyone KNOWS that it is Bob Dylan is irrelevant. Mr. Glaser has never had to seek publicity rights to use the image.

 

what about the art work on the back? is that from a photograph? who would have thought it would be hard to find dylan's management! maybe located on one of his latest albums.

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ECplus3

+ECplus3

Posted
  • Author
Posted

i am still wondering if dylan himself has to give permission to use his image on a coin. you have permission from the artist to use his art work, but that may not be an all-inclusive licensing for any image of the singer. i would imagine dylan would have to sign off on the project. not to be a spoil-sport, just looking at all the possibilities.

 

avroair, do you know?

 

I'm not trying to dodge the question. I'm still trying to track down Bob Dylan's management (wouldn't have thought it would be so hard).

 

One thing I have discovered though is that publicity (or 'personality') rights are not covered by any international agreement. Every country has a different way of handling it, and in the US each state handles it differently.

 

I also discovered that works of art are handled differently than photographs and that the courts often side with the artist -- even if a likeness is being sold for profit -- if the run is limited (the court cases still talk of numbers in the thousands).

 

Finally, a likeness appropriated for commercial use is not what I thought originally. Commercial use doesn't just mean that I want to make a buck off of his image. Commercial use specifically means that I am using his image to advertise an unrelated item. For example, if I used Bob Dylan's image to sell my other coins: that's bad. If I sell a coin with Bob Dylan's image on it: not so bad.

 

All that being said, I'm still trying to track down his manager/license holder. This is all regarding the second side of the coin. The front is fine as it is a work of art that in and of itself is not a recognizable likeness of Bob Dylan. The fact that everyone KNOWS that it is Bob Dylan is irrelevant. Mr. Glaser has never had to seek publicity rights to use the image.

 

what about the art work on the back? is that from a photograph? who would have thought it would be hard to find dylan's management! maybe located on one of his latest albums.

 

The back artwork is from a photo taken in 1965 by Don Hunstein during a recording session for Bring It All Back Home. Mr. Hunstein hasn't answered my emails. I'm really hoping he does answer, because I like the back design and don't want to have to change it!

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ECplus3

+ECplus3

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I finally heard back from Mr. Hunstein (or at least from his wife DeeAnne). Mr. Hunstein only owns the rights to that photo as a print. He was on staff at Columbia Records when he took the photo, so Sony Music is my next email campaign for rights to use the image. But apparently there are no likeness rights issues with this photo either. If I can get the rights from Sony to use the photo for the coin, then that is the last hurdle.

 

Otherwise I'll be busy thinking up a new design for the back. :(

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RedShoesGirl

RedShoesGirl

Posted
Posted

I finally heard back from Mr. Hunstein (or at least from his wife DeeAnne). Mr. Hunstein only owns the rights to that photo as a print. He was on staff at Columbia Records when he took the photo, so Sony Music is my next email campaign for rights to use the image. But apparently there are no likeness rights issues with this photo either. If I can get the rights from Sony to use the photo for the coin, then that is the last hurdle.

 

Otherwise I'll be busy thinking up a new design for the back. :(

 

so you heard from dylan's management about using the singer's likeness no matter who owns copyright to the photo itself? you are certainly dedicated!

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ECplus3

+ECplus3

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I finally heard back from Mr. Hunstein (or at least from his wife DeeAnne). Mr. Hunstein only owns the rights to that photo as a print. He was on staff at Columbia Records when he took the photo, so Sony Music is my next email campaign for rights to use the image. But apparently there are no likeness rights issues with this photo either. If I can get the rights from Sony to use the photo for the coin, then that is the last hurdle.

 

Otherwise I'll be busy thinking up a new design for the back. :(

 

so you heard from dylan's management about using the singer's likeness no matter who owns copyright to the photo itself? you are certainly dedicated!

 

No I haven't reached Dylan's management yet. But Mrs. Hunstein's response says that Sony has the exclusive rights to the photo for commercial use. I need to confirm this with Sony, but I gather from Mrs. Hunstein that that is the last step. Obviously Sony isn't going to permit a project that will damage the image of one of their 'properties' so perhaps Dylan has waived his likeness rights related to anything that Sony has in their archive.

 

I would still like to get hold of Dylan's rep, if only to get a reaction to this project.

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goosefraba1

+goosefraba1

Posted
Posted

You know what would be neat is to make this part of a songwriters set.... I know that would ve incredibly difficult to hunt down all of the copyrights..... But would still be great.

 

Could have Dylan, cash, Townes van zandt, sir Elton, Freddie mercury, etc.

 

Hope to see bobs face on a coin soon :)

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ECplus3

+ECplus3

Posted
  • Author
Posted

While no news may be good news to some, I would rather not be left hanging in limbo. Sony has been silent for two weeks now (though I have no way of knowing what 'shortly' means to the VP of merchandising).

 

In the meantime I've been working on an alternate design for the back -- something that will not need licensing. Here's the first draft:

 

dylan3_back.jpg

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manu luq

+manu luq

Posted
Posted (edited)

Although the back changes substantially, I believe that this coin does not lose the strength that is based on the front.

 

In my opinion, would be better than the phrase "track at ..." was in smaller letters, as in the previous design.

 

Great coin anyway :)

 

NB: Might be okay if the back side is similar to the front side, the hair.

Edited by manu luq
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