+jellis Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 The latest craze by some newbies. A friend has a cache in a tree. I am 5'7" and was able to reach it by climbing on a branch. After me others have gotten it the same way. 6 months later two separate newbies claimed finds by saying "saw it, couldn't reach it, but took a picture" I saw ones up in a tree (2 caches on my list) that were too high for me to reach. Some day I'll go back but didn't take pics and log them as finds. Quote Link to comment
+Rainbow Spirit Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 If I was the CO, I would delete their logs. Quote Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 If I was the CO, I would delete their logs. Me too. Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I agree. Sign log get smiley. If you cannot get to it, you didn't find it. Sigh. I logged a DNF last week. Cacher after me didn't find it either. So he left a throw down. Sorry, dude. You did not find it either. That's a DNF. Sorry to derail the subject. Quote Link to comment
+Alice Band Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 There seems to be an outbreak of those logs in my region. I recently deleted one such log because they logged it as a find even though they just said 'We think we know where it is but couldn't retrieve it at this time'. They got very upset and had a go at me, so I sent them a copy of the Groundspeak guidelines on the aspect of logging caches as a find. I've noticed a lot of new cachers are allowing such logging, so I'm wondering if Groundspeak should perhaps issue a brief reminder of this most basic of rules as part of the game on their homepage? Quote Link to comment
+pppingme Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Part of the challenge is finding the cache. Part of the challenge is retrieving the cache. If you didn't retrieve it, then you haven't completed the challenge. There's been a couple caches I've "seen" but couldn't retrieve, maybe because it took extra tools, maybe because I'm too short, some for other reasons, I wouldn't even think of claiming a find. Quote Link to comment
+the4dirtydogs Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Part of the challenge is finding the cache. Part of the challenge is retrieving the cache. If you didn't retrieve it, then you haven't completed the challenge. There's been a couple caches I've "seen" but couldn't retrieve, maybe because it took extra tools, maybe because I'm too short, some for other reasons, I wouldn't even think of claiming a find. Part of the challenge is placing the cache back as found. I would delete their logs as well. I've walked away from a few caches that I didn't have the right equipment for. No biggie come back another day better prepaired. Quote Link to comment
+Gitchee-Gummee Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 All good responses, but there is one other important one...... Getting ALL of the geocaches is not a necessity. If you feel one presents too much of a danger to you, pass it by. You are bound to find a few that fall into that category -- and not just because they are too high. Quote Link to comment
+ApanAnn Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Part of the challenge is finding the cache. Part of the challenge is retrieving the cache. If you didn't retrieve it, then you haven't completed the challenge. There's been a couple caches I've "seen" but couldn't retrieve, maybe because it took extra tools, maybe because I'm too short, some for other reasons, I wouldn't even think of claiming a find. Part of the challenge is placing the cache back as found. I would delete their logs as well. I've walked away from a few caches that I didn't have the right equipment for. No biggie come back another day better prepaired. I need to learn that one... I managed to retrieve a cache but due to muggle activity and my not very flexible body I was unable to put it back properly I hid it in another place to get it out of view and returned later with equipment to put it back. And yes, I fessed up in the online log in case someone should go looking for it before I had a chance to put it back properly. Quote Link to comment
+WRASTRO Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 All good responses, but there is one other important one...... Getting ALL of the geocaches is not a necessity. If you feel one presents too much of a danger to you, pass it by. You are bound to find a few that fall into that category -- and not just because they are too high. +1 Quote Link to comment
+GrateBear Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 One of my finds was a cache in a hole in a branch about 2' beyond my reach. It could be seen from a berm that brought you up to eye level, but nowhere close enough to reach. And, it was about 10' from the trunk, so climbing was not going to work. At least, unless I was crazy enough to shimmy out the branch. So, I found a stick with a crook in it that could reach up and work the cache out. Only problem was getting it back in the hole. After about 20 tosses, it finally went back in Quote Link to comment
+jellis Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 Yes like I don't swim or scuba well. Nervous about heights if it's higher or by ropes. I can be talked into some but if I fear for my safety I will pass. You know there is over a 1,300,000. I don't think I can find them all. Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 All good responses, but there is one other important one...... Getting ALL of the geocaches is not a necessity. If you feel one presents too much of a danger to you, pass it by. You are bound to find a few that fall into that category -- and not just because they are too high. But... but... but... awwwww, man!!! Don't say that!! Quote Link to comment
+hukilaulau Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 All good responses, but there is one other important one...... Getting ALL of the geocaches is not a necessity. If you feel one presents too much of a danger to you, pass it by. You are bound to find a few that fall into that category -- and not just because they are too high. But... but... but... awwwww, man!!! Don't say that!! Just a couple of days ago I was on a road trip a long way from home and I tried to retrieve a cache that was stuck in a small hole in a bridge. All I did was push it so far back into the hole that there was no way to get it out. I spent about 30 minutes there trying to get it before I reluctantly let it go and moved on. I could have used the time to find several other nice caches in the park. (Yes, I logged a DNF and admitted what I had done.) Quote Link to comment
+WRASTRO Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Delete. Delete what? A found it log on a cache you didn't actually find and sign the log? Can you say MOGA? Quote Link to comment
+joranda Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Delete. Delete what? A found it log on a cache you didn't actually find and sign the log? Can you say MOGA? I am sorry. Every find I had at MOGA was legit. Want to check my card? Why don't you come down to play there next year. It will be great to have you there. Quote Link to comment
+WRASTRO Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Delete. Delete what? A found it log on a cache you didn't actually find and sign the log? Can you say MOGA? I am sorry. Every find I had at MOGA was legit. Want to check my card? Why don't you come down to play there next year. It will be great to have you there. Wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the reported practice at MOGA. Should the cache owners delete the found it logs for those who did not find the actual caches and sign the physical logs? Quote Link to comment
+Shop99er Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) If I was the CO, I would delete their logs. Yup. A few of us went after a cache over 20 feet in the air yesterday. Luckily, we had some info from a previous finder, and the CO. So, we put a 20-foot ladder in my truck. Edited April 5, 2011 by Shop99er Quote Link to comment
Andronicus Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 All good responses, but there is one other important one...... Getting ALL of the geocaches is not a necessity. If you feel one presents too much of a danger to you, pass it by. You are bound to find a few that fall into that category -- and not just because they are too high. Enough with the poetry... Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I wouldn't allow it either but do you talk to them about it first or just blink the log and then say why? Quote Link to comment
+Shop99er Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I wouldn't allow it either but do you talk to them about it first or just blink the log and then say why? When I delete a log, I will send a note telling them why, and then delete the log. My favorite was on an Earthcache I used to have. The finder admitted in the log that he didn't go to the needed sign and get the info. The mail he sent me was full of wrong answers. I told him what he needed to do, and he sent me a blistering mail through GS. I answered him on his private e-mail, and read him the riot act. Never heard from him again. He also never tried to log that one again. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 (edited) I wouldn't allow it either but do you talk to them about it first or just blink the log and then say why? When I delete a log, I will send a note telling them why, and then delete the log. My favorite was on an Earthcache I used to have. The finder admitted in the log that he didn't go to the needed sign and get the info. The mail he sent me was full of wrong answers. I told him what he needed to do, and he sent me a blistering mail through GS. I answered him on his private e-mail, and read him the riot act. Never heard from him again. He also never tried to log that one again. I was wondering. It seems like if you try to open a dialog you end up going back and forth. Still, you want to give someone the opportunity. Honest question. Edited April 5, 2011 by BlueDeuce Quote Link to comment
+Shop99er Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I wouldn't allow it either but do you talk to them about it first or just blink the log and then say why? When I delete a log, I will send a note telling them why, and then delete the log. My favorite was on an Earthcache I used to have. The finder admitted in the log that he didn't go to the needed sign and get the info. The mail he sent me was full of wrong answers. I told him what he needed to do, and he sent me a blistering mail through GS. I answered him on his private e-mail, and read him the riot act. Never heard from him again. He also never tried to log that one again. I was wondering. It seems like if you try to open a dialog you end up going back and forth. Still, you want to give someone the opportunity. Honest question. I have found that if you do delete a log, you will get a blast from that cacher. No amount of explaining seems to help. So, just to keep from blowing my stack, and have TTUMS get mad at me, I tell them once. After that, the ball's in their court. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I wouldn't allow it either but do you talk to them about it first or just blink the log and then say why? When I delete a log, I will send a note telling them why, and then delete the log. My favorite was on an Earthcache I used to have. The finder admitted in the log that he didn't go to the needed sign and get the info. The mail he sent me was full of wrong answers. I told him what he needed to do, and he sent me a blistering mail through GS. I answered him on his private e-mail, and read him the riot act. Never heard from him again. He also never tried to log that one again. I was wondering. It seems like if you try to open a dialog you end up going back and forth. Still, you want to give someone the opportunity. Honest question. I have found that if you do delete a log, you will get a blast from that cacher. No amount of explaining seems to help. So, just to keep from blowing my stack, and have TTUMS get mad at me, I tell them once. After that, the ball's in their court. Thanks. So far it's been distant virtual logging and those get whacked without much comment. No complaints yet. Quote Link to comment
+lamoracke Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 who would have thought when I was 5 foot 7 and too short for volleyball, tennis, basketball and wide receiver in early sports that some hobby 10 years later would preclude me from getting caches in trees easily. I feel your pain jellis, I doubt I am much if any taller than you. Thus, I use ladders, sticks, sticks and duct tape, grabbers, tall friends...but not fake finds. They'll get their comeuppance some day if the CO does not feel their logs should be deleted, which I would do. Quote Link to comment
+Don_J Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I wouldn't allow it either but do you talk to them about it first or just blink the log and then say why? When I delete a log, I will send a note telling them why, and then delete the log. My favorite was on an Earthcache I used to have. The finder admitted in the log that he didn't go to the needed sign and get the info. The mail he sent me was full of wrong answers. I told him what he needed to do, and he sent me a blistering mail through GS. I answered him on his private e-mail, and read him the riot act. Never heard from him again. He also never tried to log that one again. I was wondering. It seems like if you try to open a dialog you end up going back and forth. Still, you want to give someone the opportunity. Honest question. I have found that if you do delete a log, you will get a blast from that cacher. No amount of explaining seems to help. So, just to keep from blowing my stack, and have TTUMS get mad at me, I tell them once. After that, the ball's in their court. While I have never been in this position, I would probably shoot a message, explain my concerns and give them the opportunity to delete their found log. If I had set up a cache that takes on a specific challenge, (climb a tree), and it wasn't met, and the log wasn't signed, I'm not sure how I would react if the logger refused to delete their online log voluntarily. I have only delete one found log out of over 4700. The log was in German and the logger also found a number of logs in Germany, that day. I assumed they had entered the GC# wrong. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Delete. Delete what? A found it log on a cache you didn't actually find and sign the log? Can you say MOGA? I am sorry. Every find I had at MOGA was legit. Want to check my card? Why don't you come down to play there next year. It will be great to have you there. Wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the reported practice at MOGA. Should the cache owners delete the found it logs for those who did not find the actual caches and sign the physical logs? There is a difference in what we each would do and what we should reasonably expect everyone else to do. For many of us, this often means that we may only log caches online if we signed teh logbook. Still, we may allow searchers for our caches to not sign the logbook, with a reasonable explanation. We also accept that other cache owners define 'reasonable explanation' differently than we may. Quote Link to comment
+nittanycopa Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I don't know about elsewhere, but generally if I go after something above a 4 terrain, I may also post a note or shoot the CO an email about conditions at the GZ. It's good to be prepared before you get these caches - is there specific equipment needed, are there any safety concerns, etc. If you're actively planning ahead to tackle a tough cache, chances are you're serious about getting the cache legitimately. If you encounter trouble or there's a stage missing - sometimes the CO will also help you out. Especially if you're far from home and made a special trip to go get that cache. If I'm alone cache-hunting and can't make a grab because I'm short I sometimes post a note "Coming back with a vengeance and a stepstool" or "See it but need help" or something like that. The CO could certainly leave the "FOUND" log up for the rest of us to laugh at, too... Quote Link to comment
+Alice Band Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Yep - I send the cacher a message explaining why. But its so 'ingrained' in this region I sometimes wonder why I bother. And these logs are even coming from cachers with four figures under their belt. Have people become lazy and lost the whole point of caching? Quote Link to comment
+Team GPSaxophone Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I wouldn't allow it either but do you talk to them about it first or just blink the log and then say why? Anybody want a peanut? If the cache was listed as a 1/1 and was too high to reach then knock it out of the tree and place it lower. Otherwise, quit complaining. Quote Link to comment
sdarken Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 ...6 months later two separate newbies claimed finds by saying "saw it, couldn't reach it, but took a picture" Sounds like it would be an ideal time for a cache owner to educate some newbies about challenging caches and what is expected behavior when they are encountered. We all had to learn this kind of stuff. Quote Link to comment
+jellis Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 who would have thought when I was 5 foot 7 and too short for volleyball, tennis, basketball and wide receiver in early sports that some hobby 10 years later would preclude me from getting caches in trees easily. I feel your pain jellis, I doubt I am much if any taller than you. Thus, I use ladders, sticks, sticks and duct tape, grabbers, tall friends...but not fake finds. They'll get their comeuppance some day if the CO does not feel their logs should be deleted, which I would do. Don't you remember me? Cito event in Feb. Yes we are the same height. But on some hikes carrying a ladder wouldn't work, and on some I found that the cache is tied to the tree branch and not hooked so those are the ones I want to try again. But find with a boast from a friend or rope to keep me from falling. I found plenty of caches in trees that I climbed but certain heights I tend to get nervous, especially alone. When I did the Ring of Fire it took Frisbeer's moral support keep to me going down the ravine. I even went down in a cave which in our group only I could fit in the entrance easily. But after going about 100 ft I was more worried about them thinking something happened because we couldn't hear each other. So I turned around. Was going to go back with a rope but the cache was archived. Quote Link to comment
+lamoracke Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 who would have thought when I was 5 foot 7 and too short for volleyball, tennis, basketball and wide receiver in early sports that some hobby 10 years later would preclude me from getting caches in trees easily. I feel your pain jellis, I doubt I am much if any taller than you. Thus, I use ladders, sticks, sticks and duct tape, grabbers, tall friends...but not fake finds. They'll get their comeuppance some day if the CO does not feel their logs should be deleted, which I would do. Don't you remember me? Cito event in Feb. Yes we are the same height. But on some hikes carrying a ladder wouldn't work, and on some I found that the cache is tied to the tree branch and not hooked so those are the ones I want to try again. But find with a boast from a friend or rope to keep me from falling. I found plenty of caches in trees that I climbed but certain heights I tend to get nervous, especially alone. When I did the Ring of Fire it took Frisbeer's moral support keep to me going down the ravine. I even went down in a cave which in our group only I could fit in the entrance easily. But after going about 100 ft I was more worried about them thinking something happened because we couldn't hear each other. So I turned around. Was going to go back with a rope but the cache was archived. of course I remember you! However, I only had an idea we were the same height....could not recall for sure. We forgot to do the back to back thing with a friend doing the hand over the hair measurement thing. I guess Tango was busy or he could have done that. Quote Link to comment
+jellis Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 I think the worst tree climb I did was on a canal trail. A cacher was just coming down out of and it was my turn. When I got up I realized it was covered with ants, but I still got the cache. Quote Link to comment
+TeamSeekAndWeShallFind Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Signing the physical log "rule," seems to be the only rule left in the game. We play by it so we expect others to play by it. Every single cache we've found, we signed the physical log. If that log was soaked. We changed it. If it was full. We changed it. NEVER, NOT ONCE, have we or would we claim a find on a cache if we didn't sign the physical log or somehow leave our sig inside the container. At least once a day someone logs one or more of our caches and says they couldn't reach it or the log was wet and they couldn't sign...blah-blah. NO. As a CO you have to decide what's more important, protecting the integrity of the game or being popular. I can tell you this from personal experience, the moment you delete someone's found it log because they didn't sign the physical log in your cache, they WILL hate you. THAT is gauranteed ! They will be offended. I see logs posted all day everyday where cachers say they didn't sign the log because of this or that or this or that....and the CO's don't say ANYTHING because they're afraid that cacher won't like them. Me ? I don't care if you don't like me. I play by THE RULE, so I expect you to play by THE RULE and if you think you're gonna log my cache without signing the physical log, you are sadly mistaken ! Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Signing the physical log "rule," seems to be the only rule left in the game. We play by it so we expect others to play by it. Every single cache we've found, we signed the physical log. If that log was soaked. We changed it. If it was full. We changed it. NEVER, NOT ONCE, have we or would we claim a find on a cache if we didn't sign the physical log or somehow leave our sig inside the container. At least once a day someone logs one or more of our caches and says they couldn't reach it or the log was wet and they couldn't sign...blah-blah. NO. As a CO you have to decide what's more important, protecting the integrity of the game or being popular. I can tell you this from personal experience, the moment you delete someone's found it log because they didn't sign the physical log in your cache, they WILL hate you. THAT is gauranteed ! They will be offended. I see logs posted all day everyday where cachers say they didn't sign the log because of this or that or this or that....and the CO's don't say ANYTHING because they're afraid that cacher won't like them. Me ? I don't care if you don't like me. I play by THE RULE, so I expect you to play by THE RULE and if you think you're gonna log my cache without signing the physical log, you are sadly mistaken ! It's a RULE for you and a RULE for caches that you own. It's not a RULE for everyone else. Quote Link to comment
+M 5 Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 3.1. Logging of All Physical Geocaches This page is an extension of our Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines. Physical geocaches can be logged online as "Found" once the physical log has been signed. An exception is Challenge Caches, which may only be logged online after the challenge requirements have been met and documented to the cache owner's satisfaction. For physical caches all logging requirements beyond finding the geocache and signing the log are considered additional logging requirements (ALRs) and must be optional. Quote Link to comment
+jellis Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) yes I did read it wrong Edited April 6, 2011 by jellis Quote Link to comment
+M 5 Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 So those with Challenge caches don't even need to put out a physical cache? Doesn't make sense since you need coords to have a challenge cache page with posted coords. That would almost make a virtual. A challenge cache is a physical cache with requirements as stated in the guidelines. Not sure how you got that interpretation Quote Link to comment
+jellis Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) from the first line one of the finders log is deleted. The other says she took a pic and has proof and she couldn't reach it no matter how high she tried to reach. Geez, I did the same thing, trying to reach a different cache and could touch it but because I would have to let go of the branch I was holding on to above. I backed off and will come back when I find a way to actually get the cache. Edited April 6, 2011 by jellis Quote Link to comment
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