Geocaching Responsibly

[jholly]

Oh well after reading his "final comment" I felt the frustration. But for me to come to that conclusion I must have read it and the entire thread wrong! Maybe I will just go play angry birds!

What I read in his final comment is that "I'm done with you because nobody agrees with me and tells me how wonderful I am." He has a different reception over on facebook and that is why he moved there.

[Mr.Yuck]

Oh well after reading his "final comment" I felt the frustration. But for me to come to that conclusion I must have read it and the entire thread wrong! Maybe I will just go play angry birds!

What I read in his final comment is that "I'm done with you because nobody agrees with me and tells me how wonderful I am." He has a different reception over on facebook and that is why he moved there.

 

Not surprising. Even the con-artist who has published exactly one Geocaching Magazine issue since 2008, and is still threatening to publish more and taking more money from more people as we speak, gets nothin' but love on Facebook, and has like 500 fans. Facebook is just a regular lovefest, isn't it?

 

Seriously though, Bradley Henley, if he's still reading this, needs to change his Facebook settings so ANYONE can see his Geocache Responsibly Facebook page. I'm a non-Facebooker (and probably always will be), but I need to log in to see any of his content. I would think he would want anyone to be able to see his wall and most of his content.

[knowschad]

Owie, I need to call the wahhmbulance! Offended much?

Brilliant retort! Spoken like a true adult. Geeze!!

[+bradleyhenley]

Oh well after reading his "final comment" I felt the frustration. But for me to come to that conclusion I must have read it and the entire thread wrong! Maybe I will just go play angry birds!

What I read in his final comment is that "I'm done with you because nobody agrees with me and tells me how wonderful I am." He has a different reception over on facebook and that is why he moved there.

 

Not surprising. Even the con-artist who has published exactly one Geocaching Magazine issue since 2008, and is still threatening to publish more and taking more money from more people as we speak, gets nothin' but love on Facebook, and has like 500 fans. Facebook is just a regular lovefest, isn't it?

 

Seriously though, Bradley Henley, if he's still reading this, needs to change his Facebook settings so ANYONE can see his Geocache Responsibly Facebook page. I'm a non-Facebooker (and probably always will be), but I need to log in to see any of his content. I would think he would want anyone to be able to see his wall and most of his content.

 

The "Geocache - Responsibly" Facebook page is open for anyone. Facebook imposes the log-in to see policy not me.

[+GeoGeeBee]

Oh well after reading his "final comment" I felt the frustration. But for me to come to that conclusion I must have read it and the entire thread wrong! Maybe I will just go play angry birds!

What I read in his final comment is that "I'm done with you because nobody agrees with me and tells me how wonderful I am." He has a different reception over on facebook and that is why he moved there.

 

Not surprising. Even the con-artist who has published exactly one Geocaching Magazine issue since 2008, and is still threatening to publish more and taking more money from more people as we speak, gets nothin' but love on Facebook, and has like 500 fans. Facebook is just a regular lovefest, isn't it?

 

Seriously though, Bradley Henley, if he's still reading this, needs to change his Facebook settings so ANYONE can see his Geocache Responsibly Facebook page. I'm a non-Facebooker (and probably always will be), but I need to log in to see any of his content. I would think he would want anyone to be able to see his wall and most of his content.

 

The "Geocache - Responsibly" Facebook page is open for anyone. Facebook imposes the log-in to see policy not me.

I'm pretty sure you can change that in the privacy settings. I know there are some Facebook pages that I can read when I'm not logged in.

[+StarBrand]

....

The "Geocache - Responsibly" Facebook page is open for anyone. Facebook imposes the log-in to see policy not me.

Well, actually, it is you - because of your decision to use Facebook.

 

Many of us out here just are not Facebook users, fans, hobbists or for that matter Social Media fanatics.

[Mr.Yuck]

Oh well after reading his "final comment" I felt the frustration. But for me to come to that conclusion I must have read it and the entire thread wrong! Maybe I will just go play angry birds!

What I read in his final comment is that "I'm done with you because nobody agrees with me and tells me how wonderful I am." He has a different reception over on facebook and that is why he moved there.

 

Not surprising. Even the con-artist who has published exactly one Geocaching Magazine issue since 2008, and is still threatening to publish more and taking more money from more people as we speak, gets nothin' but love on Facebook, and has like 500 fans. Facebook is just a regular lovefest, isn't it?

 

Seriously though, Bradley Henley, if he's still reading this, needs to change his Facebook settings so ANYONE can see his Geocache Responsibly Facebook page. I'm a non-Facebooker (and probably always will be), but I need to log in to see any of his content. I would think he would want anyone to be able to see his wall and most of his content.

 

The "Geocache - Responsibly" Facebook page is open for anyone. Facebook imposes the log-in to see policy not me.

I'm pretty sure you can change that in the privacy settings. I know there are some Facebook pages that I can read when I'm not logged in.

 

As someone who doesn't have an account or log-in, I can tell you that there are thousands of Facebook pages that I can see. Perhaps one of Facebook's 10 Billion members who is reading this can tell you what privacy settings to use.

[Pup Patrol]

The "Geocache - Responsibly" Facebook page is open for anyone. Facebook imposes the log-in to see policy not me.

 

I certainly don't have a Facebook login, and never will, but I know that there are plenty of Facebook sites I can read, because the creator/author has selected the correct privacy settings.

 

From way back in 2009:

http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=60186587130

 

Just go to your privacy page and change the settings you want to the new "Everyone" option. You can opt to make one or all of the following profile elements more open: Profile, Status Updates, Links, Wall Posts, Basic Info, Personal Info, Education Info, Work Info, Photos of You and Videos of You.

[+bradleyhenley]

The page has been deleted. So no more worries.

[+niraD]

The page has been deleted. So no more worries.

Ah, the Facebook page has been deleted. I wasn't sure what page you were talking about at first, since the www.geocacheresponsibly.info site is still there, and so is the Mission Objectives page on that site.

[+narcissa]

So you get butthurt and delete the Facebook page, but not the site, which is far more problematic? At this point it really seems like you are intentionally trying to mislead people. I don't care if you have 2 finds or 20,000 finds - deceiving other geocachers is a horrible thing to do.

[+bradleyhenley]

So you get butthurt and delete the Facebook page, but not the site, which is far more problematic? At this point it really seems like you are intentionally trying to mislead people. I don't care if you have 2 finds or 20,000 finds - deceiving other geocachers is a horrible thing to do.

 

I did not delete the page. I made everyone admin and then left the page.

 

Someone deleted the page after.

[+narcissa]

Maybe that should tell you something.

[+bradleyhenley]

So you get butthurt and delete the Facebook page, but not the site, which is far more problematic? At this point it really seems like you are intentionally trying to mislead people. I don't care if you have 2 finds or 20,000 finds - deceiving other geocachers is a horrible thing to do.

 

How has the website mislead people?

Each and every statement about the laws has the official links to the law.

[+bradleyhenley]

Maybe that should tell you something.

 

Yes.

The removal of the Facebook page is troubling.

I am again reminded that violators will continue to deny any existence of state and federal laws.

Just as my website (with links to the official laws) has been down played and the main concern has been diverted from the laws to my personal views.

As such I feel that I am again speaking to the correct violators that the laws were written for.

By belittling www.geocacheresponsibly.info and I you have again proven my point that the laws are being blatantly disregarded on a massive scale.

[+niraD]

non sequitur

[Mr.Yuck]

Maybe that should tell you something.

 

Yes.

The removal of the Facebook page is troubling.

I am again reminded that violators will continue to deny any existence of state and federal laws.

Just as my website (with links to the official laws) has been down played and the main concern has been diverted from the laws to my personal views.

As such I feel that I am again speaking to the correct violators that the laws were written for.

By belittling www.geocacheresponsibly.info and I you have again proven my point that the laws are being blatantly disregarded on a massive scale.

 

NOOOOOOO!!! What did you delete the Facebook page for? I wasn't being a meanie, I was trying to help you out, by advising you that people without a Facebook account couldn't see it, but it was just a matter of a quick setting that would make it viewable for anyone with a web browser.

[ygo2slow]

LINK TO THE NATIONAL FOREST REGIONS MAP: http://www.fs.fed.us/contactus/regions.shtml

 

As you can see by the link, Texas is in Region 8 (Yellow Area on Map).

 

LINK TO THE PERMIT REQUIRED TO PLACE A GEOCACHE IN REGION 8: http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf

 

Georgia is where the Region 8 Main Office is, Thus the "Georgia" on top of the Permit. The permit has been in effect SINCE 2006.

 

Federal Law is FEDERAL LAW. Let's see you Forum Trolls debate this.

 

"Cache the Planet"

 

TEAM LOW TECH - 936

http://web.me.com/ygo2slow

 

And yes, I know You may not live in Region 8, I don't have high numbers, Blah Blah [removed profanity - BruceS] BLAH.

 

"Cache How Thou Wilt" is Team Low Tech's motto. We aren't in it for the numbers or the approval of forum trolls.

Edited March 12, 2011 by BruceS
Remove profanity

[+Panther&Pine]

Having watched this drama for a few days now I've decided what I think is the main issue with your webpage and platform.

 

Your content lists things as if there are no exceptions and that your guidlines/rules are the only ones that are correct.

 

I do not feel that your NM/NA guidlines are realistic and that you should consider adjusting them a large amount or removing them.

 

Over all your page is trying to reinvent the wheel and doing so in a nonprofessional manner.

 

MJS Over and Out.

[Pup Patrol]

good grief.

 

ibtl

[GOF and Bacall]

LINK TO THE NATIONAL FOREST REGIONS MAP: http://www.fs.fed.us/contactus/regions.shtml

 

As you can see by the link, Texas is in Region 8 (Yellow Area on Map).

 

LINK TO THE PERMIT REQUIRED TO PLACE A GEOCACHE IN REGION 8: http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf

 

Georgia is where the Region 8 Main Office is, Thus the "Georgia" on top of the Permit. The permit has been in effect SINCE 2006.

 

Federal Law is FEDERAL LAW. Let's see you Forum Trolls debate this.

 

"Cache the Planet"

 

TEAM LOW TECH - 936

http://web.me.com/ygo2slow

 

And yes, I know You may not live in Region 8, I don't have high numbers, Blah Blah XXXXXXXX BLAH.

 

"Cache How Thou Wilt" is Team Low Tech's motto. We aren't in it for the numbers or the approval of forum trolls.

 

I don't care if you do use eight letters to spell a four letter word, it is still a four letter word.

[knowschad]

I am again reminded that violators will continue to deny any existence of state and federal laws.

Isn't that a self-fulfilling prophesy? Or a self-referencing sentence or something like that. That's like saying "Criminals will commit crimes". Yes, they will.

[knowschad]

Federal Law is FEDERAL LAW. Let's see you Forum Trolls debate this.

And yes, I know You may not live in Region 8, I don't have high numbers, Blah Blah [remove profanity] BLAH.

You have it backwards.... what you posted is an example of trolling.

 

Your post both disrespected fellow geocachers, but used a misspelled obscenity as well. See ya!

Edited March 12, 2011 by BruceS
Remove quoted profanity

[GOF and Bacall]

Maybe that should tell you something.

 

Yes.

The removal of the Facebook page is troubling.

I am again reminded that violators will continue to deny any existence of state and federal laws.

Just as my website (with links to the official laws) has been down played and the main concern has been diverted from the laws to my personal views.

As such I feel that I am again speaking to the correct violators that the laws were written for.

By belittling www.geocacheresponsibly.info and I you have again proven my point that the laws are being blatantly disregarded on a massive scale.

 

Come on guys. He has links to official sites. Like bright hub and yahoo.

[+Ike 13]

As such I feel that I am again speaking to the correct violators that the laws were written for.

By belittling www.geocacheresponsibly.info and I you have again proven my point that the laws are being blatantly disregarded on a massive scale.

So because I think your site does not do a great job of getting your points across I am a criminal. Well I guess I should put on my ski mask to conceal my identity

[+bradleyhenley]

Maybe that should tell you something.

 

Yes.

The removal of the Facebook page is troubling.

I am again reminded that violators will continue to deny any existence of state and federal laws.

Just as my website (with links to the official laws) has been down played and the main concern has been diverted from the laws to my personal views.

As such I feel that I am again speaking to the correct violators that the laws were written for.

By belittling www.geocacheresponsibly.info and I you have again proven my point that the laws are being blatantly disregarded on a massive scale.

 

Come on guys. He has links to official sites. Like bright hub and yahoo.

 

Stop diverting away from the laws.

Bright Hub is a random article about geocaching.

Yahoo is my e-mail address.

[+bradleyhenley]

As such I feel that I am again speaking to the correct violators that the laws were written for.

By belittling www.geocacheresponsibly.info and I you have again proven my point that the laws are being blatantly disregarded on a massive scale.

So because I think your site does not do a great job of getting your points across I am a criminal. Well I guess I should put on my ski mask to conceal my identity

 

I know there are geocachers on the forums who obey the laws, and I applaud these responsible geocachers.

On the other hand, I see many people stating they do not and/or will not follow established laws.

This is my issue.

The laws are laws.

[+NeecesandNephews]

So you get butthurt and delete the Facebook page, but not the site, which is far more problematic? At this point it really seems like you are intentionally trying to mislead people. I don't care if you have 2 finds or 20,000 finds - deceiving other geocachers is a horrible thing to do.

 

Sorry to go off topic, but "butthurt"?? I literally laughed out loud at that. Never heard the term before. Thats too funny.

[+NeecesandNephews]

As such I feel that I am again speaking to the correct violators that the laws were written for.

By belittling www.geocacheresponsibly.info and I you have again proven my point that the laws are being blatantly disregarded on a massive scale.

So because I think your site does not do a great job of getting your points across I am a criminal. Well I guess I should put on my ski mask to conceal my identity

 

I know there are geocachers on the forums who obey the laws, and I applaud these responsible geocachers.

On the other hand, I see many people stating they do not and/or will not follow established laws.

This is my issue.

The laws are laws.

 

Bradley I understand and respect what you are trying to do. But let me offer this advice... you can't save the world.

When I first started playing I let every little detail get to me. This one is not doing this right, that one is not doing that right, ect.

After a while, it just sucked the fun out of it. As fate would have it, life drug me away from the game for a bit, and it was probably the best thing that happened. Yes I still have strong opinions on a lot of topics, but I relinquished the imaginary ability to control what anyone else does, or how they choose to play.

I don't care what it is, sooner or later, if you try hard enough, you cand find a flaw, or find fault with it.

As a great friend of mine once told me, "dude, you are letting them occupy entirely too much space in your mind. Send out some eviction notices."

I would also add... and this is just me... man up!! Stop being so easily manipulated by every poster who replies here. Its YOUR website. Do your research, post your findings, add your opinion, and if they don't like it? Pizz on 'em... from a great height.

[+bradleyhenley]

As such I feel that I am again speaking to the correct violators that the laws were written for.

By belittling www.geocacheresponsibly.info and I you have again proven my point that the laws are being blatantly disregarded on a massive scale.

So because I think your site does not do a great job of getting your points across I am a criminal. Well I guess I should put on my ski mask to conceal my identity

 

I know there are geocachers on the forums who obey the laws, and I applaud these responsible geocachers.

On the other hand, I see many people stating they do not and/or will not follow established laws.

This is my issue.

The laws are laws.

 

Bradley I understand and respect what you are trying to do. But let me offer this advice... you can't save the world.

When I first started playing I let every little detail get to me. This one is not doing this right, that one is not doing that right, ect.

After a while, it just sucked the fun out of it. As fate would have it, life drug me away from the game for a bit, and it was probably the best thing that happened. Yes I still have strong opinions on a lot of topics, but I relinquished the imaginary ability to control what anyone else does, or how they choose to play.

I don't care what it is, sooner or later, if you try hard enough, you cand find a flaw, or find fault with it.

As a great friend of mine once told me, "dude, you are letting them occupy entirely too much space in your mind. Send out some eviction notices."

I would also add... and this is just me... man up!! Stop being so easily manipulated by every poster who replies here. Its YOUR website. Do your research, post your findings, add your opinion, and if they don't like it? Pizz on 'em... from a great height.

 

Thank You. I understand but when a noob reads thru these forums I want to stress the importance of being properly informed.

[+NeecesandNephews]

As such I feel that I am again speaking to the correct violators that the laws were written for.

By belittling www.geocacheresponsibly.info and I you have again proven my point that the laws are being blatantly disregarded on a massive scale.

So because I think your site does not do a great job of getting your points across I am a criminal. Well I guess I should put on my ski mask to conceal my identity

 

I know there are geocachers on the forums who obey the laws, and I applaud these responsible geocachers.

On the other hand, I see many people stating they do not and/or will not follow established laws.

This is my issue.

The laws are laws.

 

Bradley I understand and respect what you are trying to do. But let me offer this advice... you can't save the world.

When I first started playing I let every little detail get to me. This one is not doing this right, that one is not doing that right, ect.

After a while, it just sucked the fun out of it. As fate would have it, life drug me away from the game for a bit, and it was probably the best thing that happened. Yes I still have strong opinions on a lot of topics, but I relinquished the imaginary ability to control what anyone else does, or how they choose to play.

I don't care what it is, sooner or later, if you try hard enough, you cand find a flaw, or find fault with it.

As a great friend of mine once told me, "dude, you are letting them occupy entirely too much space in your mind. Send out some eviction notices."

I would also add... and this is just me... man up!! Stop being so easily manipulated by every poster who replies here. Its YOUR website. Do your research, post your findings, add your opinion, and if they don't like it? Pizz on 'em... from a great height.

 

Thank You. I understand but when a noob reads thru these forums I want to stress the importance of being properly informed.

 

A noble cause, I will admit. But you are the only one who can decide if its worth all the grief you are getting. Good luck to you and to your website!!

[Mushtang]

Thank You. I understand but when a noob reads thru these forums I want to stress the importance of being properly informed.

But why do you think that it's YOU that needs to be informing them, or me, on how the game should be played? This site does a pretty good job of explaining the guidelines, gives lots of examples, has links, and and entire Getting Started section of the forums filled with threads to properly inform people.

 

In the mean time, you've appointed yourself as an authority figure on what should and shouldn't be allowed, or how caching should or shouldn't be done.

 

BTW, I knew this wouldn't be true as soon as I read it:

"So in conclusion my final statement on this thread..."

[+bradleyhenley]

Thank You. I understand but when a noob reads thru these forums I want to stress the importance of being properly informed.

But why do you think that it's YOU that needs to be informing them, or me, on how the game should be played? This site does a pretty good job of explaining the guidelines, gives lots of examples, has links, and and entire Getting Started section of the forums filled with threads to properly inform people.

 

In the mean time, you've appointed yourself as an authority figure on what should and shouldn't be allowed, or how caching should or shouldn't be done.

 

BTW, I knew this wouldn't be true as soon as I read it:

"So in conclusion my final statement on this thread..."

 

1)But why do you think that it's YOU that needs to be informing them, or me, on how the game should be played?

=> Because someone should address the existence of the laws.

 

2)This site does a pretty good job of explaining the guidelines, gives lots of examples, has links, and and entire Getting Started section of the forums filled with threads to properly inform people.

=> This site does explain the guidelines, give examples, has links, forum threads, and the Getting Started section to relay the requirements set forth by geocaching.com (Groundspeak) but the site does not relay civilian rules, guidelines, laws associated with GPS "Treasure Hunting" activities.

 

3)In the mean time, you've appointed yourself as an authority figure on what should and shouldn't be allowed, or how caching should or shouldn't be done.

=> I have not appointed myself as any type of authority in any fashion. I have sited government website and laws pertaining to the activity of geocaching.

 

4)BTW, I knew this wouldn't be true as soon as I read it:

"So in conclusion my final statement on this thread..."

=> I was going to leave on that final thought. But after several misguided attempts from the laws to comments on my personal views and random articles about geocaching. I had to speak.

[+narcissa]

You've cherry-picked a handful of things that you feel are important, and staunchly refuse to examine the larger context or consider the numerous exceptions that others have pointed out. You don't know the difference between site, sight, and cite. You claim that your site is there to inform people, but you are so far from being properly informed yourself that this claim is either a blatant lie or a massive delusion.

[+bradleyhenley]

You've cherry-picked a handful of things that you feel are important, and staunchly refuse to examine the larger context or consider the numerous exceptions that others have pointed out. You don't know the difference between site, sight, and cite. You claim that your site is there to inform people, but you are so far from being properly informed yourself that this claim is either a blatant lie or a massive delusion.

 

How can you "claim" that my website is "either a blatant lie or a massive delusion"?

 

Everything on my website page titled "Texas" is copied directly from the stated official websites and include links at the exact page.

[+bradleyhenley]

....

So in conclusion my final statement on this thread is:

IF YOU DON’T WANT TO FOLLOW THE STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS GOVERNING THE “SPORT/ACTIVITY” OF GEOCACHING THEN YOU MY FELLOW GEOCACHER PUBLIC WILL BE THE DOWN FALL OF THE “SPORT/ACTIVITY”.

If you really want to be helpful....

 

Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to.

Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers.

 

Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement.

 

Drop all the vitriol.

 

Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to.

=>Refer http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf

2724.44 - Treasure Hunting

1. This designation includes the temporary placement of personal property for the

purpose of geo-caching. 36 CFR 261.10(a) requires a special use authorization for

occupancy and use of National Forest system land. This is further supported by 36 CFR

261.10(e) that prohibits abandoning personal property on National Forest system land.

 

Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers.

http://coord.info/GC2P4AT = Owner Mousetrap knew of above law =refer http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554

http://coord.info/GC2P5DW = Owner Onthefly Crew

 

Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement.

Inform Reviewer about the law – A task that was completed on December 21, 2010

From: Bradley Henley <bradleyhenley@yahoo.com>

Date: December 21, 2010 11:49:16 AM CST

To: Prime Reviewer <prime.reviewer@gmail.com>

Subject: USDA Forest Service - Recreation, Heritage and Wilderness

 

I know this may look like I am coming across a complete a******, however, as a Geocacher in East Texas I feel like it is my responsibility to make you aware of what is happening in this area. I respect you and hope that you understand that this is just for the good of the sport. As you may have heard, geocaching has recently received many negative remarks, press, and comments due to geocachers not following the rules and regulations set forth by Groundspeak and State/Federal laws, as well as common sense. I've talked to many officials who have no idea that these caches have been hidden in there parks, National Forrest, or on Historical Sites. Many of the caches hidden inside our National Forrest are small plastic containers which would not survive the controlled burns. Some of which have been nailed to, or fixed to trees by wire, then spray painted. A few are on Stop signs, or U.S. government property (Post Boxes, National Forrest Signs). There is a permit you have to fill out and a regional yearly fee as well. Please look into this. Thank you.

 

Bradley Henley

bradleyhenley@yahoo.com

 

 

U.S. National Forrest Regions:

 

Texas is in Region 8.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf

 

Mousetrap brought this up in a Groundspeak Forum in 2008:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554

 

PLEASE see attached .pdf which talks about placement of a geocache in U.S. National Forrest.

[+narcissa]

You've cherry-picked a handful of things that you feel are important, and staunchly refuse to examine the larger context or consider the numerous exceptions that others have pointed out. You don't know the difference between site, sight, and cite. You claim that your site is there to inform people, but you are so far from being properly informed yourself that this claim is either a blatant lie or a massive delusion.

 

How can you "claim" that my website is "either a blatant lie or a massive delusion"?

 

Everything on my website page titled "Texas" is copied directly from the stated official websites and include links at the exact page.

 

Hence, cherry-picked.

 

Also, do official websites really spell it "forrest?"

Edited March 12, 2011 by narcissa

[+Chrysalides]

nevermind... at this point I don't think anything anyone says here is really going to matter. Good luck with your site.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Chrysalides

[+bradleyhenley]

You've cherry-picked a handful of things that you feel are important, and staunchly refuse to examine the larger context or consider the numerous exceptions that others have pointed out. You don't know the difference between site, sight, and cite. You claim that your site is there to inform people, but you are so far from being properly informed yourself that this claim is either a blatant lie or a massive delusion.

 

How can you "claim" that my website is "either a blatant lie or a massive delusion"?

 

Everything on my website page titled "Texas" is copied directly from the stated official websites and include links at the exact page.

 

Hence, cherry-picked.

 

Also, do official websites really spell it "forrest?"

 

No,cherry picking here, just law information placed on the website as I find it.

 

The misspelling on the email was my typo.

[ygo2slow]

LINK TO THE NATIONAL FOREST REGIONS MAP: http://www.fs.fed.us/contactus/regions.shtml

 

As you can see by the link, Texas is in Region 8 (Yellow Area on Map).

 

LINK TO THE PERMIT REQUIRED TO PLACE A GEOCACHE IN REGION 8: http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf

 

Georgia is where the Region 8 Main Office is, Thus the "Georgia" on top of the Permit. The permit has been in effect SINCE 2006.

 

Federal Law is FEDERAL LAW. Let's see you Forum Trolls debate this.

 

"Cache the Planet"

 

TEAM LOW TECH - 936

http://web.me.com/ygo2slow

 

And yes, I know You may not live in Region 8, I don't have high numbers, Blah Blah [removed profanity - BruceS] BLAH.

 

"Cache How Thou Wilt" is Team Low Tech's motto. We aren't in it for the numbers or the approval of forum trolls.

 

Thanks Bruce.

[+Sol seaker]

I totally agree with standing up for laws.

I also totally agree that if the laws are not abided by then it will spell disaster for geocaching.

I also totally agree that there are a lot of cachers out there who don't care about the laws.

I also agree that they threaten this game.

 

What I have a hard time with (and I see others struggling with the same) is your tone.

You come in here as a newcomer and have the tone of telling us all what to do.

You've come in to save geocaching, when in fact we've been having these kinds of threads and debates for some time.

 

Actually it's kind of funny because I got my behind chewed off for saying the same sorts of things when I was new to these forums. I ran a thread warning people if they didn't get with the program of sticking with the laws, and not destroying the forests then it would be the end of geocaching.

They ran me out of here with nasty words and replies that I was a newbie, what did I know?

When in fact they were responding to my tone, just as people are responding to yours.

 

You are accusing everyone of not following laws, and while there are those who don't care about them, most of us here do care and abide by them.

 

Your tone is directed at everyone when everyone here is not the problem.

 

Take a deep breath, sit down, eat a doughnut, and try to figure out what is really going on here.

I don't see people arguing that they have the right to break the laws (ok, maybe one post).

People are against the tone of your posts.

 

People don't take well to people who come off as "know-it-alls" especially when they have been with this for years and you are new.

 

Put yourself in their shoes for a minute and think about this.

Try thinking about this as if it were your job or something else that you have been doing for years,and someone new comes on the job, and in the first week blasts you for the sins of some of your co-workers when you have not been doing those things, and this new guy really doesn't have all the information yet.

Futhermore, this new guy is telling everyone around you how to do their jobs. Is he going to make people mad?

would you get mad?

 

Relax. Sit down. Get a cup of coffee. Then go get a geocache. Have a good day.

[Mr.Yuck]

 

Relax. Sit down. Get a cup of coffee. Then go get a geocache. Have a good day.

 

And tell me why you deleted the Facebook page, which seems to have gotten lost in the last several posts here. Geez, I just suggested you should change your settings. I hope you can get the deleted content back.

[+narcissa]

 

No,cherry picking here, just law information placed on the website as I find it.

 

 

With no attempt at in-depth research or critical thought. You're just slapping things up on the site as you find them, but you're not making any attempt to make sure the information is thorough and relevant. Numerous people have pointed out why your site is problematic, but you are clearly not interested in presenting thorough, accurate information - you are only interested in presenting information that supports your personal, narrow view of the game. Cherry-picking.

[+narcissa]

 

Relax. Sit down. Get a cup of coffee. Then go get a geocache. Have a good day.

 

And tell me why you deleted the Facebook page, which seems to have gotten lost in the last several posts here. Geez, I just suggested you should change your settings. I hope you can get the deleted content back.

 

He claims he didn't delete it. He made everyone an admin, and somebody else deleted it.

[Mushtang]

Thank You. I understand but when a noob reads thru these forums I want to stress the importance of being properly informed.

But why do you think that it's YOU that needs to be informing them, or me, on how the game should be played? This site does a pretty good job of explaining the guidelines, gives lots of examples, has links, and and entire Getting Started section of the forums filled with threads to properly inform people.

 

In the mean time, you've appointed yourself as an authority figure on what should and shouldn't be allowed, or how caching should or shouldn't be done.

 

BTW, I knew this wouldn't be true as soon as I read it:

"So in conclusion my final statement on this thread..."

1)But why do you think that it's YOU that needs to be informing them, or me, on how the game should be played?

=> Because someone should address the existence of the laws.

 

2)This site does a pretty good job of explaining the guidelines, gives lots of examples, has links, and and entire Getting Started section of the forums filled with threads to properly inform people.

=> This site does explain the guidelines, give examples, has links, forum threads, and the Getting Started section to relay the requirements set forth by geocaching.com (Groundspeak) but the site does not relay civilian rules, guidelines, laws associated with GPS "Treasure Hunting" activities.

 

3)In the mean time, you've appointed yourself as an authority figure on what should and shouldn't be allowed, or how caching should or shouldn't be done.

=> I have not appointed myself as any type of authority in any fashion. I have sited government website and laws pertaining to the activity of geocaching.

 

4)BTW, I knew this wouldn't be true as soon as I read it:

"So in conclusion my final statement on this thread..."

=> I was going to leave on that final thought. But after several misguided attempts from the laws to comments on my personal views and random articles about geocaching. I had to speak.

And this, in the forum world, is what is known as backpedaling.

 

 

When you first started your site you were clearly interested in telling people way more than just what the local laws were. You told us when we should log Needs Maintenance, and when to follow up with Needs Archived. You told us to remember that children enjoy trading trinkets so we should always trade swag. Etc.

 

Your preachings didn't go over too well in this thread, and now you're saying, "no no no, all I want my website to do is list local laws."

Edited March 12, 2011 by Mushtang

[Clan Riffster]

I was poking around the Internet this evening, and found that the cited rule, (from 2006), appears to have been revised in 2007.

http://www.fs.fed.us/im/directives/fsm/2700/2720.doc

 

Note: This is from the national rulebook, not the regional.

 

If you scroll down to the newest version of 2724.44, all mention of Geocaching has been removed.

 

Maybe Region 8 has not updated their rules to match the national rulebook?

 

If this is true, that would certainly fit my own personal interaction with senior foresters in Ocala, Osceola and Apalachicola National Forests. When speaking with folks from each of these forests, the replies I got were all worded to the effect of, "We feel that Geocaching is a benign use of our properties, and it is already regulated with what we feel are sufficient rules to protect our interests. We see no need, at this time, to complicate the process of hiding or searching for geocaches by adding a permit process."

Edited March 12, 2011 by Clan Riffster

[+StarBrand]

....

So in conclusion my final statement on this thread is:

IF YOU DON’T WANT TO FOLLOW THE STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS GOVERNING THE “SPORT/ACTIVITY” OF GEOCACHING THEN YOU MY FELLOW GEOCACHER PUBLIC WILL BE THE DOWN FALL OF THE “SPORT/ACTIVITY”.

If you really want to be helpful....

 

Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to.

Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers.

 

Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement.

 

Drop all the vitriol.

 

Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to.

=>Refer http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf

2724.44 - Treasure Hunting

1. This designation includes the temporary placement of personal property for the

purpose of geo-caching. 36 CFR 261.10(a) requires a special use authorization for

occupancy and use of National Forest system land. This is further supported by 36 CFR

261.10(e) that prohibits abandoning personal property on National Forest system land.

 

Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers.

http://coord.info/GC2P4AT = Owner Mousetrap knew of above law =refer http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554

http://coord.info/GC2P5DW = Owner Onthefly Crew

 

Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement.

Inform Reviewer about the law – A task that was completed on December 21, 2010

From: Bradley Henley <bradleyhenley@yahoo.com>

Date: December 21, 2010 11:49:16 AM CST

To: Prime Reviewer <prime.reviewer@gmail.com>

Subject: USDA Forest Service - Recreation, Heritage and Wilderness

 

I know this may look like I am coming across a complete a******, however, as a Geocacher in East Texas I feel like it is my responsibility to make you aware of what is happening in this area. I respect you and hope that you understand that this is just for the good of the sport. As you may have heard, geocaching has recently received many negative remarks, press, and comments due to geocachers not following the rules and regulations set forth by Groundspeak and State/Federal laws, as well as common sense. I've talked to many officials who have no idea that these caches have been hidden in there parks, National Forrest, or on Historical Sites. Many of the caches hidden inside our National Forrest are small plastic containers which would not survive the controlled burns. Some of which have been nailed to, or fixed to trees by wire, then spray painted. A few are on Stop signs, or U.S. government property (Post Boxes, National Forrest Signs). There is a permit you have to fill out and a regional yearly fee as well. Please look into this. Thank you.

 

Bradley Henley

bradleyhenley@yahoo.com

 

 

U.S. National Forrest Regions:

 

Texas is in Region 8.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf

 

Mousetrap brought this up in a Groundspeak Forum in 2008:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554

 

PLEASE see attached .pdf which talks about placement of a geocache in U.S. National Forrest.

 

Wow....

 

I'm going to take a minute and help you out here - then explain where you have apparently gone wrong.

 

First - let me re-write your response to me so that it is short, to the point, readable and helpful to others.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

According this helpful PDF I found online, the National Forest Service for the Texas area has a clear policy on the placement of caches within its boundaries. See this link: Refer http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf

 

I believe ((Bradley speaking)) that the area reviewer has erred in publishing the following 2 caches that are within a National Forest: http://coord.info/GC2P4AT and http://coord.info/GC2P5DW

 

The owner of the first cache shows in a 2008 post to these forums that he is aware of the Policy linked above. See - http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554

 

While these 2 caches were published in February - I tried to communicate to the reviewer that the law cited above exists and has been ignored. I wrote an email back in December to him with a reference - It would appear he is ignoring me.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

See how much easier that reads?? - It is clear and concise. (((I can't believe I am actually trying to help here....)))

 

Where you went wrong is in assuming something is wrong. Just because they were published doesn't mean that a permit does not exist or that other arrangements have not been made regarding the caches or that special area rules override the cited document. You are accusing the reviewer of not doing their job but you offer no evidence of it - at all. If you have further evidence - now is the time to outline it.

 

Your email to the reviewer reads as a rambling, all purpose rant of personal opinion - I'm not surpised that it was not taken more seriously. Lacking in specifics, examples and evicence of harm (my opinion).

Edited March 12, 2011 by StarBrand

[+bradleyhenley]

 

Relax. Sit down. Get a cup of coffee. Then go get a geocache. Have a good day.

 

And tell me why you deleted the Facebook page, which seems to have gotten lost in the last several posts here. Geez, I just suggested you should change your settings. I hope you can get the deleted content back.

 

refer to post #216. I made everyone admin and removed myself from the page.

[+bradleyhenley]

I was poking around the Internet this evening, and found that the cited rule, (from 2006), appears to have been revised in 2007.

http://www.fs.fed.us/im/directives/fsm/2700/2720.doc

 

Note: This is from the national rulebook, not the regional.

 

If you scroll down to the newest version of 2724.44, all mention of Geocaching has been removed.

 

Maybe Region 8 has not updated their rules to match the national rulebook?

 

If this is true, that would certainly fit my own personal interaction with senior foresters in Ocala, Osceola and Apalachicola National Forests. When speaking with folks from each of these forests, the replies I got were all worded to the effect of, "We feel that Geocaching is a benign use of our properties, and it is already regulated with what we feel are sufficient rules to protect our interests. We see no need, at this time, to complicate the process of hiding or searching for geocaches by adding a permit process."

 

The policy list what is not included under "Treasure Hunting". If Geocaching was included you would have been correct.

 

2724.44 - Treasure Hunting

 

This designation includes the search for and recovery of hidden treasure. It does not include:

1. Lost or abandoned property that falls under the General Services Administration authority in 40 U.S.C. 310.

2. Archaeological resources or specimens defined at 36 CFR 296.

3. Locatable minerals, as defined by the 1872 Mining Act (30 U.S.C. 21-54), or leasable minerals under either the Act of 1920 (30 U.S.C. 181) or the Act of 1947 (30 U.S.C. 351-359).

4. Recent vintage coins or other small objects of recent age often found with the aid of a metal detector. No significant excavation is involved. The search is a recreation pursuit confined to areas with no historic or prehistoric value.

[Clan Riffster]

Could be. But in your version of 2724.44, Geocaching is explicitly mentioned. In the newer version, it is not.

Same rule, 2724.44), different date.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Clan Riffster