bradleyhenley

The 2011 Azalea Trail CITO Event has been Canceled. The published CITO event is cancelled. The local cleanup will continue as planned.

When I began creating the website Geocache - Responsibly (www.geocacheresponsibly.info) I wanted to show that there were laws governing the activity of geocaching that were not being obeyed. Since the websites creation I have taken flak for expressing an interest opposing the normal thinking of Geocachers. In my attempts to redesign my website to accommodate valid suggestions offered by several forum members I have taken multiple attacks against my views and person. After only three months and this now 7 page thread I have come to the conclusion that the activity know as geocaching is not worth my time, money or energy. The website Geocache – Responsibly will be removed. Good luck and continued growth with the activity of geocaching. Bradley Henley bradleyhenley@yahoo.com

As I read these posts I am again reminded why history repeats itself. The majority of the “forum trolls” (from ygo2slow) on this thread prefers to attack my personal views and attempt to discredit my person. Because they cannot or will not accept that there are laws they themselves do not obey.

The entire reason I have be reading and replying to post on this thread was to get feedback as I have state multiple times. I have updated my website many times adding and removing items by suggestions on this thread and the now former Facebook page. Strangely there seems to be fellow geocachers on this thread who only want to continually redirect from the existence and disregard of the law(s) to my personal views, or to discredit me all together.

Simplified it for you. The original posting was in response to Clan Riffster who provided an official link to a revision of NFS policy. The wording of the 2006 policy stated activities that were classified under “treasure hunting” policy. The wording on the 2007 revision classified activities that were not considered "treasure hunting". Clan Riffster's stated that because the activity of geocaching was not mentioned, the policy no longer regards the activity of geocaching. My statement was the revision stated what activities were not considered as “treasure hunting”. Being that neither Clan Riffster nor myself can agree on the meaning to the revision due to the rewording. I contacted the government administration who created the revision asking for a final determination on the current policy on the activity of geocaching.

I'm not sure that's true. I've taken the liberty of affixing a couple screen shots of the relevant documents. Here's the header from the old document. The one you cite as being the current rule. You'll notice it is supplament # 2700-2006-1, with some pretty standard duration language. "This amendment is effective until superseded or removed". It cites the (then) current wording of rule # 2724.44, which, at that time, included geocaching. Yet, when we look at the header from the newer document, we see a revelation. You'll notice that it has a new supplement number, 2700-2007-1. In the header, it specifically makes note of your earlier rule, stating implicitly that the old rule, Amendment # 2700-2006-1, has been superseded. The rule you keep citing as being constantly violated was replaced with the rule I cite. The new rule makes no mention of geocaching. The reason it makes no mention of geocaching is because the Forestry folks realized that they did not need to govern the game. To get clarification of the current policy and/or laws associated with geocaching from the U.S. Forest Service. I have drafted a message sent to the U.S. Forest Service. Below is a copy of the message. Hello, I am a Geocacher in the State of Texas. I have been debating the existence of laws governing the placement of geocaches. I have created a website (www.geocacheresponsibly.info). After the creation of the website there was a forum thread on www.geocaching.com created to talk about several aspects of the website and information included. I would like to know the policy by the U.S. Forest Service on the activity of geocaching? Also, I would like to know the current policy and/or law(s) (including links if available) pertaining to the activity of geocaching? Will you please reply with your response to my e-mail address bradleyhenley@yahoo.com? Thank You Bradley Henley Geocache – Responsibly bradleyhenley@yahoo.com

The issues with Texas will be resolved in a timely fashion. The reason for the website is to bring awareness that the laws exist. I do not want bad new coverage because of a violation like this: http://coord.info/GC248QR = Hint the geocache is attached to a string hanging inside the National Forest Sign. I don't get it...Am I missing something here? You find the cache you have linked then you are 'narcing' on it? ....and place a pathtag? Yes, I also claimed the find for the post office box geocache that I got archived. Did you know that cache was in "violation" before you went to find it? No, I did not. Please refer: http://coord.info/GCRTED I am sorry I should have clarified but since I was originally referring to the link of the geocache involved with the National Forest sign: LEAVING ... FOREST Did you know that cache was in "violation" before you went to find it? I did not make any reference to the USPS Drop Box. That is for sure a wrongfully placed cache that a person would have no idea of the placement at the locale. No, I did not know the geocache was in the sign till I found the geocache.

The current cache listing guidelines make it clear that "All local laws apply" and that "the landowner's and/or land manager's permission" is required. Given the sheer number of laws, regulations, and policies around the world, I think it is unreasonable to expect any site to maintain a current list of them all. This is the kind of thing that is best handled locally. But the basic principles of obeying local laws and obtaining permission are clearly addressed by the current geocaching.com web site. By compiling as many laws as I can with direct links to each law I can show on one site the complexity of the issues facing the sport of geocaching.

I applaud the WSGA and the efforts that Groundspeak has expended to resolve the issues in your area. I do have several other plans that I am working on for local easement to the geocaching public. But again straight from the website "This website is designed to inform geocachers and non-geocachers that there are State and Federal laws governing the activity of Geocaching. We applaud the responsible geocachers for their continued rejuvenation or the activity. We hope to sway the violators who disregard "good" common sense and the laws that pertain to the activity of geocaching." Great. What can you tell me about the rules pertaining to placing geocaches in the North Cascades National Park? I believe this question would be appropriate given your quoted statement from the website. Currently the only information I have pertains the Texas. But I can start a page for additional states if needed. Right. So why do you beleive you can claim on your website to be a source of information for geocaching? Do you know the regulations for placing caches in Austin? Houstin? Abilene? Texarkana? San Angelo? You are attempting to set your site and yourself up as a go to site for laws, rules and regulations for the game as a whole and you very likely do not know the particulars within your own state. If you really think you have the energy and the resources to become even the go to site for Texas then more power to you. I like having the group power of Groundspeak, my state group and my local geocaching friends to assist with this stuff. Good luck and I hope you are able to improve the state of the game in your area from your perspective. Please stay out of my state and my area if you do not know the specifics of caching here, which you acknowledge you do not. Wow, what hostility. I have no hostility toward you or your site. I am asking you questions pertinent to your site. You want to be an expert source. Can you? Are you? Preach all you want but you have to deliver if you have any expectation of being credible in any way. So far you simply can't and don't deliver on what you are claiming to be doing. Not even for Texas. Can you answer any of my questions from my previous post? Should be basic stuff. In no form have I portrayed that I or my website is "an expert source". I have only tried to show that there are laws not described by the current geocaching website that are governing the activity. You make broad claims and provide little or no information. I have followed your links and find nothing that is of use to me as a geocacher in general, much less in my area. You still choose to ignore my specific questions regarding geocaching in Texas. What authoritative information can you or do you provide? How am I making "broad claims"? I post and prove that there are State and Federal laws governing the activity of Geocaching. If you have truly followed my links you would have already know that Texas is the first State that I am compiling information on. Being that you reside elsewhere of course the information on the website would be useless (again only Texas). You do not offer to relay your expertise of your area to advance the website only your dislike and criticism. You ask specific questions regarding Texas (city law) under the assumption that by creating this website I am portraying to be "and expert source" that I personal never claimed. In my opinion, because you cannot find fault in my finding (posted on the website) you are trying to find fault in my person. Are you having any luck with that endeavor?

I applaud the WSGA and the efforts that Groundspeak has expended to resolve the issues in your area. I do have several other plans that I am working on for local easement to the geocaching public. But again straight from the website "This website is designed to inform geocachers and non-geocachers that there are State and Federal laws governing the activity of Geocaching. We applaud the responsible geocachers for their continued rejuvenation or the activity. We hope to sway the violators who disregard "good" common sense and the laws that pertain to the activity of geocaching." Great. What can you tell me about the rules pertaining to placing geocaches in the North Cascades National Park? I believe this question would be appropriate given your quoted statement from the website. Currently the only information I have pertains the Texas. But I can start a page for additional states if needed. Right. So why do you beleive you can claim on your website to be a source of information for geocaching? Do you know the regulations for placing caches in Austin? Houstin? Abilene? Texarkana? San Angelo? You are attempting to set your site and yourself up as a go to site for laws, rules and regulations for the game as a whole and you very likely do not know the particulars within your own state. If you really think you have the energy and the resources to become even the go to site for Texas then more power to you. I like having the group power of Groundspeak, my state group and my local geocaching friends to assist with this stuff. Good luck and I hope you are able to improve the state of the game in your area from your perspective. Please stay out of my state and my area if you do not know the specifics of caching here, which you acknowledge you do not. Wow, what hostility. I have no hostility toward you or your site. I am asking you questions pertinent to your site. You want to be an expert source. Can you? Are you? Preach all you want but you have to deliver if you have any expectation of being credible in any way. So far you simply can't and don't deliver on what you are claiming to be doing. Not even for Texas. Can you answer any of my questions from my previous post? Should be basic stuff. In no form have I portrayed that I or my website is "an expert source". I have only tried to show that there are laws not described by the current geocaching website that are governing the activity.

I applaud the WSGA and the efforts that Groundspeak has expended to resolve the issues in your area. I do have several other plans that I am working on for local easement to the geocaching public. But again straight from the website "This website is designed to inform geocachers and non-geocachers that there are State and Federal laws governing the activity of Geocaching. We applaud the responsible geocachers for their continued rejuvenation or the activity. We hope to sway the violators who disregard "good" common sense and the laws that pertain to the activity of geocaching." Great. What can you tell me about the rules pertaining to placing geocaches in the North Cascades National Park? I believe this question would be appropriate given your quoted statement from the website. Currently the only information I have pertains the Texas. But I can start a page for additional states if needed. Right. So why do you beleive you can claim on your website to be a source of information for geocaching? Do you know the regulations for placing caches in Austin? Houstin? Abilene? Texarkana? San Angelo? You are attempting to set your site and yourself up as a go to site for laws, rules and regulations for the game as a whole and you very likely do not know the particulars within your own state. If you really think you have the energy and the resources to become even the go to site for Texas then more power to you. I like having the group power of Groundspeak, my state group and my local geocaching friends to assist with this stuff. Good luck and I hope you are able to improve the state of the game in your area from your perspective. Please stay out of my state and my area if you do not know the specifics of caching here, which you acknowledge you do not. Wow, what hostility.

LOL, Your funny!

The issues with Texas will be resolved in a timely fashion. The reason for the website is to bring awareness that the laws exist. I do not want bad new coverage because of a violation like this: http://coord.info/GC248QR = Hint the geocache is attached to a string hanging inside the National Forest Sign. I don't get it...Am I missing something here? You find the cache you have linked then you are 'narcing' on it? ....and place a pathtag? Yes, I also claimed the find for the post office box geocache that I got archived. Did you know that cache was in "violation" before you went to find it? No, I did not. Please refer: http://coord.info/GCRTED

I applaud the WSGA and the efforts that Groundspeak has expended to resolve the issues in your area. I do have several other plans that I am working on for local easement to the geocaching public. But again straight from the website "This website is designed to inform geocachers and non-geocachers that there are State and Federal laws governing the activity of Geocaching. We applaud the responsible geocachers for their continued rejuvenation or the activity. We hope to sway the violators who disregard "good" common sense and the laws that pertain to the activity of geocaching." Great. What can you tell me about the rules pertaining to placing geocaches in the North Cascades National Park? I believe this question would be appropriate given your quoted statement from the website. Currently the only information I have pertains the Texas. But I can start a page for additional states if needed.

I applaud the WSGA and the efforts that Groundspeak has expended to resolve the issues in your area. I do have several other plans that I am working on for local easement to the geocaching public. But again straight from the website “This website is designed to inform geocachers and non-geocachers that there are State and Federal laws governing the activity of Geocaching. We applaud the responsible geocachers for their continued rejuvenation or the activity. We hope to sway the violators who disregard "good" common sense and the laws that pertain to the activity of geocaching.”

The issues with Texas will be resolved in a timely fashion. The reason for the website is to bring awareness that the laws exist. I do not want bad new coverage because of a violation like this: http://coord.info/GC248QR = Hint the geocache is attached to a string hanging inside the National Forest Sign. I don't get it...Am I missing something here? You find the cache you have linked then you are 'narcing' on it? ....and place a pathtag? Yes, I also claimed the find for the post office box geocache that I got archived.

The issues with Texas will be resolved in a timly fashion. The reason for the website it to bring awareness to the fact of the laws. Thats nice but didn't exactly answer my questions.... No one has been harmed that I know of. I am trying to be pro-active: Acting in advance to deal with an expected change or difficulty There were multiple definitions I was refering to this one.

The issues with Texas will be resolved in a timely fashion. The reason for the website is to bring awareness that the laws exist. I do not want bad new coverage because of a violation like this: http://coord.info/GC248QR = Hint the geocache is attached to a string hanging inside the National Forest Sign.

If you really want to be helpful.... Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to. Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers. Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement. Drop all the vitriol. Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to. =>Refer http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf 2724.44 - Treasure Hunting 1. This designation includes the temporary placement of personal property for the purpose of geo-caching. 36 CFR 261.10(a) requires a special use authorization for occupancy and use of National Forest system land. This is further supported by 36 CFR 261.10(e) that prohibits abandoning personal property on National Forest system land. Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers. http://coord.info/GC2P4AT = Owner Mousetrap knew of above law =refer http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 http://coord.info/GC2P5DW = Owner Onthefly Crew Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement. Inform Reviewer about the law A task that was completed on December 21, 2010 From: Bradley Henley <bradleyhenley@yahoo.com> Date: December 21, 2010 11:49:16 AM CST To: Prime Reviewer <prime.reviewer@gmail.com> Subject: USDA Forest Service - Recreation, Heritage and Wilderness I know this may look like I am coming across a complete a******, however, as a Geocacher in East Texas I feel like it is my responsibility to make you aware of what is happening in this area. I respect you and hope that you understand that this is just for the good of the sport. As you may have heard, geocaching has recently received many negative remarks, press, and comments due to geocachers not following the rules and regulations set forth by Groundspeak and State/Federal laws, as well as common sense. I've talked to many officials who have no idea that these caches have been hidden in there parks, National Forrest, or on Historical Sites. Many of the caches hidden inside our National Forrest are small plastic containers which would not survive the controlled burns. Some of which have been nailed to, or fixed to trees by wire, then spray painted. A few are on Stop signs, or U.S. government property (Post Boxes, National Forrest Signs). There is a permit you have to fill out and a regional yearly fee as well. Please look into this. Thank you. Bradley Henley bradleyhenley@yahoo.com U.S. National Forrest Regions: Texas is in Region 8. http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf Mousetrap brought this up in a Groundspeak Forum in 2008: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 PLEASE see attached .pdf which talks about placement of a geocache in U.S. National Forrest. Wow.... I'm going to take a minute and help you out here - then explain where you have apparently gone wrong. First - let me re-write your response to me so that it is short, to the point, readable and helpful to others. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ According this helpful PDF I found online, the National Forest Service for the Texas area has a clear policy on the placement of caches within its boundaries. See this link: Refer http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf I believe ((Bradley speaking)) that the area reviewer has erred in publishing the following 2 caches that are within a National Forest: http://coord.info/GC2P4AT and http://coord.info/GC2P5DW The owner of the first cache shows in a 2008 post to these forums that he is aware of the Policy linked above. See - http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 While these 2 caches were published in February - I tried to communicate to the reviewer that the law cited above exists and has been ignored. I wrote an email back in December to him with a reference - It would appear he is ignoring me. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ See how much easier that reads?? - It is clear and concise. (((I can't believe I am actually trying to help here....))) Where you went wrong is in assuming something is wrong. Just because they were published doesn't mean that a permit does not exist or that other arrangements have not been made regarding the caches or that special area rules override the cited document. You are accusing the reviewer of not doing their job but you offer no evidence of it - at all. If you have further evidence - now is the time to outline it. Your email to the reviewer reads as a rambling, all purpose rant of personal opinion - I'm not surpised that it was not taken more seriously. Lacking in specifics, examples and evicence of harm (my opinion). After calling the Forest Ranger over 2 of the local National Forest (Sabine and Angelina) and asking if there were indeed permits filed. Ranger Taylor state that there were never any permits approved in either National Forest. See now - that wasn't hard to add was it?? Adds a lot to your argument as well - don't you think? Add that to the above blue text as the opening post of a thread and you might be taken much much more seriously. However - I still think you may be missing some fact here. I am fairly certain the reviewer would not blantently ignore federal law. Did you send all this to the contact email address at HQ?? They will take action on reviewers not acting appropriately. However - I am fairly certain it is you that is missing something here.... Sara, Jen, Bryon Roth have all been sent the same information. Their statement "Hi Bradley, I contacted your local ranger and he did not respond. If the ranger does not contact us, I have no official source on the matter. Thank you for continuing to keep me informed about caches there. We are still waiting on communication from the ranger. Best Regards, Sara Community Relations Representative" Subject: Re: Groundspeak (Geocaching) Contact Information Thanks! I will be contacting them next week. John Ippolito Public Services Team Leader National Forests & Grasslands in Texas The last phone call from John Ippolito stated they will create a geocaching/letterboxing permit before contacting Groundspeak to remove the current geocaches.

If you really want to be helpful.... Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to. Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers. Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement. Drop all the vitriol. Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to. =>Refer http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf 2724.44 - Treasure Hunting 1. This designation includes the temporary placement of personal property for the purpose of geo-caching. 36 CFR 261.10(a) requires a special use authorization for occupancy and use of National Forest system land. This is further supported by 36 CFR 261.10(e) that prohibits abandoning personal property on National Forest system land. Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers. http://coord.info/GC2P4AT = Owner Mousetrap knew of above law =refer http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 http://coord.info/GC2P5DW = Owner Onthefly Crew Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement. Inform Reviewer about the law A task that was completed on December 21, 2010 From: Bradley Henley <bradleyhenley@yahoo.com> Date: December 21, 2010 11:49:16 AM CST To: Prime Reviewer <prime.reviewer@gmail.com> Subject: USDA Forest Service - Recreation, Heritage and Wilderness I know this may look like I am coming across a complete a******, however, as a Geocacher in East Texas I feel like it is my responsibility to make you aware of what is happening in this area. I respect you and hope that you understand that this is just for the good of the sport. As you may have heard, geocaching has recently received many negative remarks, press, and comments due to geocachers not following the rules and regulations set forth by Groundspeak and State/Federal laws, as well as common sense. I've talked to many officials who have no idea that these caches have been hidden in there parks, National Forrest, or on Historical Sites. Many of the caches hidden inside our National Forrest are small plastic containers which would not survive the controlled burns. Some of which have been nailed to, or fixed to trees by wire, then spray painted. A few are on Stop signs, or U.S. government property (Post Boxes, National Forrest Signs). There is a permit you have to fill out and a regional yearly fee as well. Please look into this. Thank you. Bradley Henley bradleyhenley@yahoo.com U.S. National Forrest Regions: Texas is in Region 8. http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf Mousetrap brought this up in a Groundspeak Forum in 2008: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 PLEASE see attached .pdf which talks about placement of a geocache in U.S. National Forrest. Wow.... I'm going to take a minute and help you out here - then explain where you have apparently gone wrong. First - let me re-write your response to me so that it is short, to the point, readable and helpful to others. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ According this helpful PDF I found online, the National Forest Service for the Texas area has a clear policy on the placement of caches within its boundaries. See this link: Refer http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf I believe ((Bradley speaking)) that the area reviewer has erred in publishing the following 2 caches that are within a National Forest: http://coord.info/GC2P4AT and http://coord.info/GC2P5DW The owner of the first cache shows in a 2008 post to these forums that he is aware of the Policy linked above. See - http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 While these 2 caches were published in February - I tried to communicate to the reviewer that the law cited above exists and has been ignored. I wrote an email back in December to him with a reference - It would appear he is ignoring me. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ See how much easier that reads?? - It is clear and concise. (((I can't believe I am actually trying to help here....))) Where you went wrong is in assuming something is wrong. Just because they were published doesn't mean that a permit does not exist or that other arrangements have not been made regarding the caches or that special area rules override the cited document. You are accusing the reviewer of not doing their job but you offer no evidence of it - at all. If you have further evidence - now is the time to outline it. Your email to the reviewer reads as a rambling, all purpose rant of personal opinion - I'm not surpised that it was not taken more seriously. Lacking in specifics, examples and evicence of harm (my opinion). After calling the Forest Ranger over 2 of the local National Forest (Sabine and Angelina) and asking if there were indeed permits filed. Ranger Taylor state that there were never any permits approved in either National Forest. See now - that wasn't hard to add was it?? Adds a lot to your argument as well - don't you think? Add that to the above blue text as the opening post of a thread and you might be taken much much more seriously. However - I still think you may be missing some fact here. I am fairly certain the reviewer would not blantently ignore federal law. Did you send all this to the contact email address at HQ?? They will take action on reviewers not acting appropriately. However - I am fairly certain it is you that is missing something here.... Sara, Jen, Bryon Roth have all been sent the same information. Their statement "Hi Bradley, I contacted your local ranger and he did not respond. If the ranger does not contact us, I have no official source on the matter. Thank you for continuing to keep me informed about caches there. We are still waiting on communication from the ranger. Best Regards, Sara Community Relations Representative" Subject: Re: Groundspeak (Geocaching) Contact Information Thanks! I will be contacting them next week. John Ippolito Public Services Team Leader National Forests & Grasslands in Texas

If you really want to be helpful.... Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to. Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers. Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement. Drop all the vitriol. Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to. =>Refer http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf 2724.44 - Treasure Hunting 1. This designation includes the temporary placement of personal property for the purpose of geo-caching. 36 CFR 261.10(a) requires a special use authorization for occupancy and use of National Forest system land. This is further supported by 36 CFR 261.10(e) that prohibits abandoning personal property on National Forest system land. Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers. http://coord.info/GC2P4AT = Owner Mousetrap knew of above law =refer http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 http://coord.info/GC2P5DW = Owner Onthefly Crew Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement. Inform Reviewer about the law – A task that was completed on December 21, 2010 From: Bradley Henley <bradleyhenley@yahoo.com> Date: December 21, 2010 11:49:16 AM CST To: Prime Reviewer <prime.reviewer@gmail.com> Subject: USDA Forest Service - Recreation, Heritage and Wilderness I know this may look like I am coming across a complete a******, however, as a Geocacher in East Texas I feel like it is my responsibility to make you aware of what is happening in this area. I respect you and hope that you understand that this is just for the good of the sport. As you may have heard, geocaching has recently received many negative remarks, press, and comments due to geocachers not following the rules and regulations set forth by Groundspeak and State/Federal laws, as well as common sense. I've talked to many officials who have no idea that these caches have been hidden in there parks, National Forrest, or on Historical Sites. Many of the caches hidden inside our National Forrest are small plastic containers which would not survive the controlled burns. Some of which have been nailed to, or fixed to trees by wire, then spray painted. A few are on Stop signs, or U.S. government property (Post Boxes, National Forrest Signs). There is a permit you have to fill out and a regional yearly fee as well. Please look into this. Thank you. Bradley Henley bradleyhenley@yahoo.com U.S. National Forrest Regions: Texas is in Region 8. http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf Mousetrap brought this up in a Groundspeak Forum in 2008: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 PLEASE see attached .pdf which talks about placement of a geocache in U.S. National Forrest. Wow.... I'm going to take a minute and help you out here - then explain where you have apparently gone wrong. First - let me re-write your response to me so that it is short, to the point, readable and helpful to others. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ According this helpful PDF I found online, the National Forest Service for the Texas area has a clear policy on the placement of caches within its boundaries. See this link: Refer http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf I believe ((Bradley speaking)) that the area reviewer has erred in publishing the following 2 caches that are within a National Forest: http://coord.info/GC2P4AT and http://coord.info/GC2P5DW The owner of the first cache shows in a 2008 post to these forums that he is aware of the Policy linked above. See - http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 While these 2 caches were published in February - I tried to communicate to the reviewer that the law cited above exists and has been ignored. I wrote an email back in December to him with a reference - It would appear he is ignoring me. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ See how much easier that reads?? - It is clear and concise. (((I can't believe I am actually trying to help here....))) Where you went wrong is in assuming something is wrong. Just because they were published doesn't mean that a permit does not exist or that other arrangements have not been made regarding the caches or that special area rules override the cited document. You are accusing the reviewer of not doing their job but you offer no evidence of it - at all. If you have further evidence - now is the time to outline it. Your email to the reviewer reads as a rambling, all purpose rant of personal opinion - I'm not surpised that it was not taken more seriously. Lacking in specifics, examples and evicence of harm (my opinion). After calling the Forest Ranger over 2 of the local National Forest (Sabine and Angelina) and asking if there were indeed permits filed. Ranger Taylor state that there were never any permits approved in either National Forest. See now - that wasn't hard to add was it?? Adds a lot to your argument as well - don't you think? Add that to the above blue text as the opening post of a thread and you might be taken much much more seriously. However - I still think you may be missing some fact here. I am fairly certain the reviewer would not blantently ignore federal law. Did you send all this to the contact email address at HQ?? They will take action on reviewers not acting appropriately. However - I am fairly certain it is you that is missing something here.... Sara, Jen, Bryon Roth have all been sent the same information. Their statement "Hi Bradley, I contacted your local ranger and he did not respond. If the ranger does not contact us, I have no official source on the matter. Thank you for continuing to keep me informed about caches there. We are still waiting on communication from the ranger. Best Regards, Sara Community Relations Representative"

If you really want to be helpful.... Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to. Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers. Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement. Drop all the vitriol. Give VERY specific examples of the state/federal laws you keep referring to. =>Refer http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf 2724.44 - Treasure Hunting 1. This designation includes the temporary placement of personal property for the purpose of geo-caching. 36 CFR 261.10(a) requires a special use authorization for occupancy and use of National Forest system land. This is further supported by 36 CFR 261.10(e) that prohibits abandoning personal property on National Forest system land. Give VERY specific examples of the ways in which you think they are being ignored by cachers/reviewers. http://coord.info/GC2P4AT = Owner Mousetrap knew of above law =refer http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 http://coord.info/GC2P5DW = Owner Onthefly Crew Give VERY specific suggestions for improvement. Inform Reviewer about the law – A task that was completed on December 21, 2010 From: Bradley Henley <bradleyhenley@yahoo.com> Date: December 21, 2010 11:49:16 AM CST To: Prime Reviewer <prime.reviewer@gmail.com> Subject: USDA Forest Service - Recreation, Heritage and Wilderness I know this may look like I am coming across a complete a******, however, as a Geocacher in East Texas I feel like it is my responsibility to make you aware of what is happening in this area. I respect you and hope that you understand that this is just for the good of the sport. As you may have heard, geocaching has recently received many negative remarks, press, and comments due to geocachers not following the rules and regulations set forth by Groundspeak and State/Federal laws, as well as common sense. I've talked to many officials who have no idea that these caches have been hidden in there parks, National Forrest, or on Historical Sites. Many of the caches hidden inside our National Forrest are small plastic containers which would not survive the controlled burns. Some of which have been nailed to, or fixed to trees by wire, then spray painted. A few are on Stop signs, or U.S. government property (Post Boxes, National Forrest Signs). There is a permit you have to fill out and a regional yearly fee as well. Please look into this. Thank you. Bradley Henley bradleyhenley@yahoo.com U.S. National Forrest Regions: Texas is in Region 8. http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf Mousetrap brought this up in a Groundspeak Forum in 2008: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 PLEASE see attached .pdf which talks about placement of a geocache in U.S. National Forrest. Wow.... I'm going to take a minute and help you out here - then explain where you have apparently gone wrong. First - let me re-write your response to me so that it is short, to the point, readable and helpful to others. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ According this helpful PDF I found online, the National Forest Service for the Texas area has a clear policy on the placement of caches within its boundaries. See this link: Refer http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/policy/geo_cache_regional_policy_fs_manual.pdf I believe ((Bradley speaking)) that the area reviewer has erred in publishing the following 2 caches that are within a National Forest: http://coord.info/GC2P4AT and http://coord.info/GC2P5DW The owner of the first cache shows in a 2008 post to these forums that he is aware of the Policy linked above. See - http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=197140&st=0&p=3530554entry3530554 While these 2 caches were published in February - I tried to communicate to the reviewer that the law cited above exists and has been ignored. I wrote an email back in December to him with a reference - It would appear he is ignoring me. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ See how much easier that reads?? - It is clear and concise. (((I can't believe I am actually trying to help here....))) Where you went wrong is in assuming something is wrong. Just because they were published doesn't mean that a permit does not exist or that other arrangements have not been made regarding the caches or that special area rules override the cited document. You are accusing the reviewer of not doing their job but you offer no evidence of it - at all. If you have further evidence - now is the time to outline it. Your email to the reviewer reads as a rambling, all purpose rant of personal opinion - I'm not surpised that it was not taken more seriously. Lacking in specifics, examples and evicence of harm (my opinion). After calling the Forest Ranger over 2 of the local National Forest (Sabine and Angelina) and asking if there were indeed permits filed. Ranger Taylor state that there were never any permits approved in either National Forest.

SWAG stands for: S-stuff W-we A-all G-get that inculdes but not limited to childrens toys First: So? You lost narcissa's support when you made it an issue. Second: I'm pretty sure that's an artificial acronym, kinda like saying "NOT" stands for: N-negative O-on T-that It was a word before this definition came into existence. The original statement from the website was "As a prepared Geocacher you always carry basic cache repair items (spare logs, small cache containers, and of course SWAG)." As I am new to the forum I did not know if narcissa knew of what I was speaking of. So I explained myself as to the meaning as it was used in the website.

I know I come across as a poor sport but when I received the email about this thread. I was happy that I would receive viable feedback from fellow geocachers on the laws. Not the heated debate because of my personal views. I am still happy that in these (now) 6 pages of post I have found several good points pertaining to my website that I promptly revised.

When you first started your site you were clearly interested in telling people way more than just what the local laws were. =>When I first started my site I was ranting. This was later removed as not to continually sidetrack the debate on the thread. You told us when we should log Needs Maintenance, and when to follow up with Needs Archived. =>That was later addressed in this thread as being my personal views, and then later I deleted the mission. You told us to remember that children enjoy trading trinkets so we should always trade swag. => I stated on my website "As a prepared Geocacher you always carry basic cache repair items (spare logs, small cache containers, and of course SWAG)." =>Please refer to post # 3, 14, 27, 43, at which point the statement became sort of a joke. Your preachings didn't go over too well in this thread, and now you're saying, "no no no, all I want my website to do is list local laws." =>Please site your reference? Are you again speaking of my rant from the first draft of my website? I was speaking as to a possibility of why east Texas has so many abandoned geocaches. A topic that after further review was not why I created the website thus it was removed at the next update.