Missing caches

[+Otter 1]

Hi...I've been actively caching for about 6 weeks and have found about 70 caches. I try to find them without first using the hints, or reading old logs, which works about 50% of the time. Occasionally, though, the cache just can't be found, so I look up the hint and if I still can't find it, then I'll read the logs.

Sometimes, even that isn't enough because the cache needs maintenance. For example, a few weeks ago I found, on the second attempt, a cache that turned out to have been vandalised. What I found, in the right place, was a camouflage bag with a pancil, but everything else was missing. I made up a log book enough for a few people to sign, replaced the bag and claimed it as a find, writing a 'Found it' log and a 'Maintenance log'. Was I right to claim it as a find....especially as it turned out that the owner of the cache had been informed, a good few months earlier, that the cache had been vandalised?

Out of my 70 finds, 4 or 5 have been found in this way, so it seems that there's quite a few caches out there that need maintenance! Only yesterday I found a cache that was supposed to have been a 35mm film pot, attached to a piece of fishing line and dangled down inside a the hollow post of a sign post outside a railway station. Using a torch, I could see the film pot deep down inside the post, but the line had become untied, so no way could I get to the cache. On return home I found that the last cacher to try to find it had already logged that the pot was missing.

[+The Blorenges]

Ooooooooo

 

You're venturing into the Grey Area, the Twilight Zone, the Worm Can of When Can I Log a Find?

 

You'll find there are varying opinions on this so what follows is just our take on it:

If a cache has been trashed we generally follow the principle that if we find the log book, or what is obviously the remains of the log book, and can write our name on it, then we'll claim a find and let the owner know the situation.

If there's no sign of the log book, just some odds and ends that may (or may not) have been the cache then we'll log a DNF and report exactly what we found to the cache owner.

 

Other cachers will take the line that if they found the cache but couldn't get at it (like the film pot which had fallen down the pipe) then they'll claim a Find.

 

Often it comes down to what your conscience is happy with and what the cache owner accepts as a legitimate find.

 

MrsB

[+Skittler]

...and can write our name on it...

 

That's always been the rule for me. A simple one with no grey area.

 

Last week I was 'watching' a cache I couldn't find (and had DNF'd) and then the CO logged that it had been muggled, but now replaced.

I was passing nearby a day or so later so I walked to it and instantly found it - a film canister.

But (horror!) I'd left my pen in the car, so although I actually had the log in my hands I haven't yet logged it as a find.

See here: http://www.geocachin...b4-9b88948ab358

 

At the end of the day it's up to you how strict you want to be but I feel much happier with myself for playing it straight.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Skittler

[+kunarion]

...and can write our name on it...

 

That's always been the rule for me. A simple one with no grey area.

 

Yes. I visit caches for the fun of finding the clever hides. If I've logged online that I “found it”, I'm telling the Cache Owner I've moved on. If the string's broken, I'll do a Needs Maintenance, and wait for it to get fixed. And I'll be back. The only time I might log it as a “find” without signing is if it's a truly a disappointing cache, and I just can't imagine returning to the place to dig the fallen 35mm canister out of the hole (haven't done a log like that that yet).

 

For one container (so far), which was full of gross water and soaked log books (stinky area, too), I just did a NM and didn't log anything else. Yuck. All I had to do was add a slip of dry signed paper, not worth the effort for that one...

 

If it's broken or out of reach, it's a DNF, so I can come back and try it. I log a “find” if I'm finished with the cache [EDIT: that's of course in the case of actually finding it & signing the log which I was pretty certain is the correct log, so now I'm off to the next cache]. If you think you found it and are not sure, write to the CO. Sometimes people place a "new container" when they assume the real one's gone, and now you've got two containers there.

 

As The Blorenges says, you can decide for yourself how to play. But a "Found It" log that says "couldn't sign log sheet" looks real cheesy.

Edited February 12, 2011 by kunarion

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Interesting...

You post a NM because the cache is not there, yet you also post a find.

The previous cacher simply posted a DNF.

 

Mixed signals to the CO, or if nothing else, other cachers.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Interesting...

You post a NM because the cache is not there, yet you also post a find.

The previous cacher simply posted a DNF.

 

Mixed signals to the CO, or if nothing else, other cachers.

"Needs Maintenance" does not say "Cache is not there."

Much as a DNF is "I Did Not Find it" and does not say "the cache is not there..."

 

A previous cacher posted a DNF on a cache. I found it, obviously the worse for wear:

Logged a 'Found' and a 'Needs Maintenance'

Edited February 12, 2011 by Bear and Ragged

[+Otter 1]

Thanks for that, Bear and Ragged.....that's my sentiments, exactly. Whenever I've posted a 'NM' log, there has been adequate evidence that the cache is there, and that I have found it; I have not posted 'NM' for caches that are missing or 'not-found'.

 

Here's my take on it....if I've worked to the general ethos of caching to locate a cache, despite (in these cases) the cache being vandalised, damaged or just badly maintained, then it's only fair to say that I found it. I will do my utmost to sign in, even if it means that poor maintenance of the cache means that I have to provide a temporary log-book and sign in to it. Why should any cacher have to travel to a cache a second time because either vandals had damaged it or the CO had badly maintained it? Let's not boost our carbon footprints!

 

I don't think that my actions are unethical.....

I find the cache...

I find a way of signing in...

I log a find...

I inform the CO if it needs maintenance....

 

Where's the problem?

[+Otter 1]

Interesting...

You post a NM because the cache is not there, yet you also post a find.

The previous cacher simply posted a DNF.

 

Mixed signals to the CO, or if nothing else, other cachers.

 

Nope, Gitchee-Gummee, that's not what I said. I post a NM if the cache needs maintenance....simple really. I post a find because I found it....also quite simple.

 

Surely, we sign the log as proof that we got there, but if the CO's log is unavailable I find 2 ways to prove that I got there....I insert a temporary log that I sign, then I contact the CO and describe what I found. In each case, so far, the CO has agreed with me!

[+StarBrand]

I don't mean to sound cynical here but if there is no logbook/logsheet and a questionable container with no contents - how do you know that you found the cache and not some random rubbish in the same area??

 

I won't log a find unless I can actually open the cache - determine I did find the intended cache and sign the included logsheet.

[+jmw61]

 

Surely, we sign the log as proof that we got there, but if the CO's log is unavailable I find 2 ways to prove that I got there....I insert a temporary log that I sign, then I contact the CO and describe what I found. In each case, so far, the CO has agreed with me!

 

I'd say that pretty well sums it up. My thoughts too.

[+Bear and Ragged]

It's MrsB's grey area...

 

If I can find enough of the cache at the site, leave some evidence I was there, or take a photograph of the cache/site, I was there and did find it (or what was left of it)*

 

UNLESS it's a very well disguised/hidden cache with a high D/T rating... Where I would make every effort to retrieve and sign, in order to count it as a find.

 

* Cache owner is always welcome to delete the log, if they are not happy with me counting it as a find.

 

[+briansnat]

If I find enough of the cache to be absolutely certain that it was the cache, then I'll log a find. For example:d

 

An empty container with www.geocaching.com written on the outside - find.

An empty container with no firm evidence that it's a geocache - DNF

A shattered container with shattered cache contents and a torn up logbook - find

A logbook in a plastic bag, or laying in the open with the container missing - find

Random pieces of plastic with no firm evidence of them being from a geocache - DNF

Swag scattered on the ground with no logbook or container - DNF

[+WRASTRO]

If I find enough of the cache to be absolutely certain that it was the cache, then I'll log a find. For example:d

 

An empty container with www.geocaching.com written on the outside - find.

An empty container with no firm evidence that it's a geocache - DNF

A shattered container with shattered cache contents and a torn up logbook - find

A logbook in a plastic bag, or laying in the open with the container missing - find

Random pieces of plastic with no firm evidence of them being from a geocache - DNF

Swag scattered on the ground with no logbook or container - DNF

Velcro where the container used to be - DNF and NM

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Actually, not a problem.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Gitchee-Gummee