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irlpguy

"Member Only" Earthcaches

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Why! oh why! would Groundspeak allow Earthcaches to be listed that are "member only". This seems to me to be completely contrary to the spirit and intent of seeking and logging Earthcaches. I am sure that Groundspeak would prefer all users would spend the few bucks and become a premium member. However for those who are occasional cachers or those who feel they do not need the advantages of being a premium member this excludes them from being able to log these caches.

 

I wonder what the supporters of Earthcache.org would think of restricting the logging of certain Earthcaches to Groundspeak premium members only.

 

If you feel you must make a regular cache a "member only" cache, then fill your boots, however as a "premium member" and a "Platinum Earthcache Master" limiting the educational intent of Earthcaches to only premium members does not sit well with me.

 

If you are the owner of a "member only" Earthcache, what is the rationale for doing so. I have never encountered one until recently.

 

So what say ye, particularly those that are owners of Earthcaches, and those that enjoy the educational value they provide.

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Why! oh why! would Groundspeak allow Earthcaches to be listed that are "member only". This seems to me to be completely contrary to the spirit and intent of seeking and logging Earthcaches. I am sure that Groundspeak would prefer all users would spend the few bucks and become a premium member. However for those who are occasional cachers or those who feel they do not need the advantages of being a premium member this excludes them from being able to log these caches.

 

I wonder what the supporters of Earthcache.org would think of restricting the logging of certain Earthcaches to Groundspeak premium members only.

 

If you feel you must make a regular cache a "member only" cache, then fill your boots, however as a "premium member" and a "Platinum Earthcache Master" limiting the educational intent of Earthcaches to only premium members does not sit well with me.

 

If you are the owner of a "member only" Earthcache, what is the rationale for doing so. I have never encountered one until recently.

 

So what say ye, particularly those that are owners of Earthcaches, and those that enjoy the educational value they provide.

 

There have been several posts on this topic. We are with you. It seems a bit 'unnatural' to us! My memory isn't perfect, but I think the only post that agreed with PM ECs was someone who thought it's OK because "you can!" ???????

Kinda reminds us of the recent NY City controversy, just because "you can" doesn't mean it's right!

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If you are the owner of a "member only" Earthcache, what is the rationale for doing so. I have never encountered one until recently.

 

- decrease number of logs (incoming emails)

- decrease number of visits (site protection)

- avoid less experienced cachers (e.g. some newbies looking for container at "bogus" puuzle coordinates or virtual waypoint of multicahe - they can do that with EarthCache also)

- just looking at "audit log" (who's watching my cache?)

- probably 100 more reasons

 

You can still log that cache with help of another "premium" geocacher

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I am strongly against PMO EC's, in fact, many of us are. There are also similar threads on this subject. I have one posted on the user voice feedback site, I would like to see them banned by GC in OUR National and State Parks. We found one lately in a National Historic District Park, the only reason that it is PMO is "because the user can" make it PMO, in OUR Park that is to be enjoyed by all, not just "some". Even Geoaware has agreed that there should not be PMO EarthCaches, but it is totally left up to Groundspeak whether or not they are allowed. The best place to post a thread on this subject is in the user voice feedback, it will not get much attention here. :anitongue:

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One reason Earthcache owners make their caches PMO, I suspect is to keep non-human cachers from logging them.

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in OUR Park that is to be enjoyed by all, not just "some".

Yeah I hate that rule that says if there's a PM Earthcache in a park and you're not a PM you can't even go in and enjoy YOUR park. :anitongue: The nerve of some people trying to prevent you from enjoying YOUR park! You have a RIGHT to go in and enjoy YOUR park!! :anitongue:

Oh, wait... there is no such rule. :anitongue: Nevermind...

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One reason Earthcache owners make their caches PMO, I suspect is to keep non-human cachers from logging them.

Do you mean like dogs or other animals that have user accounts? I am a Bronze level EarthCache Master, so I don't see that being an issue. :anitongue: I enjoy "logging" earthcaches.

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in OUR Park that is to be enjoyed by all, not just "some".

Yeah I hate that rule that says if there's a PM Earthcache in a park and you're not a PM you can't even go in and enjoy YOUR park. :anitongue: The nerve of some people trying to prevent you from enjoying YOUR park! You have a RIGHT to go in and enjoy YOUR park!! :anitongue:

Oh, wait... there is no such rule. :anitongue: Nevermind...

It is YOUR Park also. Americia the beautfiul, this land is my land, this land is your land............

I think that you get the picture. I just think that caches in our National and State Parks that are for ALL people to enjoy, not just we Americans, should not be allowed by Groundspeak to be PMO. I understand that there are good reasons for some caches to be PMO, and if they are on private property I have no problem with them. My issue is with PMO caches on public use lands.

Edited by Manville Possum Hunters

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I'm surprised MPH didn't link to their own Feedback Topic :anitongue: .....well just for kicks:

 

Ban PMO Earthcaches in National and State Parks

 

Although it's great to debate the issue in here, I suspect it's a bit like a "tree falling in the forest", or should I say "a rock rolling downing a hill" :anitongue:

 

Since the Lackey's don't typically monitor the Forums on a regular basis, you might get better results bumping the vote a bit more on the linked Feedback Topic.

 

Edit spling

Edited by Touchstone

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I am not for PMO Earthcaches. I am friends with Cachers who are Earthcachers who do have PMO Earthcaches. Although I am against it I will not judge them on what they decide to do on theirs. People have their reasons and that's fine because I have mine. I know what I do and do what I believe..

 

PaneledZero :anitongue:

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I am not for PMO Earthcaches. I am friends with Cachers who are Earthcachers who do have PMO Earthcaches. Although I am against it I will not judge them on what they decide to do on theirs. People have their reasons and that's fine because I have mine. I know what I do and do what I believe..

 

PaneledZero :anitongue:

 

Let's hear from some PM who have developed PMO EC's as to what their reasons were for doing so. Although I might not agree with it, they might well have a reason that makes a lot of sense.

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I am not for PMO Earthcaches. I am friends with Cachers who are Earthcachers who do have PMO Earthcaches. Although I am against it I will not judge them on what they decide to do on theirs. People have their reasons and that's fine because I have mine. I know what I do and do what I believe..

 

PaneledZero :lol:

 

Let's hear from some PM who have developed PMO EC's as to what their reasons were for doing so. Although I might not agree with it, they might well have a reason that makes a lot of sense.

 

Very good point. It would be nice to hear from some ECers who use the PM designation. While we may not agree, let's not break their ______! :lol:

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One reason Earthcache owners make their caches PMO, I suspect is to keep non-human cachers from logging them.

Do you mean like dogs or other animals that have user accounts? I am a Bronze level EarthCache Master, so I don't see that being an issue. :lol: I enjoy "logging" earthcaches.

 

no, those non-human cachers

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=260242&hl=

 

you obviously haven't had the honor yet, i got hit twice and so did many more people

Edited by t4e

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Why does it matter if some earthcaches are PMO? What makes earthcaches so special that they shouldn't be made PMO?

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Why does it matter if some earthcaches are PMO? What makes earthcaches so special that they shouldn't be made PMO?

There are some very valid reasons that some EarthCaches should be PMO. But there is no valid reason that a virtual EarthCache should be PMO in a National or State Park on public use land. If it does need to be PMO, then it should not be approved in the first place under the leave no trace rule.

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One reason Earthcache owners make their caches PMO, I suspect is to keep non-human cachers from logging them.

Do you mean like dogs or other animals that have user accounts? I am a Bronze level EarthCache Master, so I don't see that being an issue. :lol: I enjoy "logging" earthcaches.

 

no, those non-human cachers

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=260242&hl=

 

you obviously haven't had the honor yet, i got hit twice and so did many more people

Oh, those bot thingies that people are talking about. Yeah, they must be worse than fleas. I just misunderstood. I had a problem with another user that deleted my post once because I am a dog. Turned out that the CO was a cat. :lol:

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Why does it matter if some earthcaches are PMO? What makes earthcaches so special that they shouldn't be made PMO?

 

PMO caches are restrictive by their very nature. Yes with help a non member can log the cache, but the Earthcache site does not belong to any individual or special group. I am sure the administrators of all Earthcaches "The Geological Society of America" would want everyone to have the opportunity to visit the site and log the find while gaining knowledge about our Earth.

 

I would like to quote from Earthcache. org:

 

An EarthCache site is a special place that people can visit to learn about a unique geoscience feature or aspect of our Earth. Visitors to EarthCache sites can see how our planet has been shaped by geological processes, how we manage the resources and how scientists gather evidence to learn about the Earth.

 

"All" geocachers should be afforded the opportunity to visit, learn and log an Earthcache without the requirement that they become a PM.

 

As the owner of 7 Earthcache listings (only the listings not the sites) I want all cachers to visit and learn something about my choice of an Earthcache site, and have the opportunity to post a found log. To use the arguement that it limits the number of visits, or limits those visits to more experienced cachers makes little sense, since a lot of the Earthcache sites are visited by thousands of visitors annually, precious few will be geocachers.

 

I know that Geoaware does not think Earthcaches should be restricted to PMO, they have told me so, why then does Groundspeak feel it should be allowed.

 

I have two Grand Daughters who also do some geocaching, they are not PM and cannot see the full listing of PMO Earthcaches and without my help would not be able to log them, that makes no sense to me whatsoever.

 

There appears to be very little agreement with PMO Earthcaches, so lets get rid of the ability to make them PMO.

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I personally do no think any EarthCaches should be Premium Member Only.

 

However, the final decision on PMO's rests with Groundspeak.

I think that most of us agree on this subject about PMO EarthCaches, but this forum is not the place to get anything done about it. We need to use the feedback site as already suggested in this thread. This is a good place to discuss an idea, but nothing will be done about it in this forum. Use your user voice in the feedback site. Hopefully, Groundspeak will listen.

Edited by Manville Possum Hunters

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One reason Earthcache owners make their caches PMO, I suspect is to keep non-human cachers from logging them.

Do you mean like dogs or other animals that have user accounts? I am a Bronze level EarthCache Master, so I don't see that being an issue. :lol: I enjoy "logging" earthcaches.

 

no, those non-human cachers

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=260242&hl=

 

you obviously haven't had the honor yet, i got hit twice and so did many more people

 

Actually I was talking about this thread. Logging requirements. Must cacher finders be human?

 

After the non-bot/non-human logged the earthcache the cache owner made it PMO

Edited by FunnyNose

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One reason Earthcache owners make their caches PMO, I suspect is to keep non-human cachers from logging them.

Do you mean like dogs or other animals that have user accounts? I am a Bronze level EarthCache Master, so I don't see that being an issue. :lol: I enjoy "logging" earthcaches.

 

no, those non-human cachers

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=260242&hl=

 

you obviously haven't had the honor yet, i got hit twice and so did many more people

 

Actually I was talking about this thread. Logging requirements. Must cacher finders be human?

 

After the non-bot/non-human logged the earthcache the cache owner made it PMO

I remember that thread quite well. That was when I asked dad if I could create my own account because I enjoy logging earthcaches. Some users make their caches PMO just to keep basic members like me away, but I always cache with a PM and we can still log my finds.

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I remember that thread quite well. That was when I asked dad if I could create my own account because I enjoy logging earthcaches. Some users make their caches PMO just to keep basic members like me away, but I always cache with a PM and we can still log my finds.

We see you are from Virginia. We have several ECs in the State, oops, Commonwealth, and you are welcome to log them. Bring your favorite pet He/she can log them too! None of ours are PM and never will be! ;)

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I remember that thread quite well. That was when I asked dad if I could create my own account because I enjoy logging earthcaches. Some users make their caches PMO just to keep basic members like me away, but I always cache with a PM and we can still log my finds.

We see you are from Virginia. We have several ECs in the State, oops, Commonwealth, and you are welcome to log them. Bring your favorite pet He/she can log them too! None of ours are PM and never will be! ;)

Thank you sir, I have logged one of your caches in Lee County. Dad said that there are also some of your earthcache listings near our home. We are planning a family earthcache outing in a few days on 10/10/10. I was at the earthcache event hosted by Cav Scout in the Cumberland Gap last year, but we did not do any group caching. We got to tour the Gap Cave, and Soilders Cave with the Park Ranger. I am also helping develop a new earthcache with dad, he loves to place what he calls history caches, and says that earthcaches are very difficult to develop, so we should be grateful to other geocachers that are able to develop them for us to enjoy. Dad says that we should give more than we take, I think that is why he feels so strongly about PMO earthcaches in Parks.

 

Thanks again,

Schnitzle. :D

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I remember that thread quite well. That was when I asked dad if I could create my own account because I enjoy logging earthcaches. Some users make their caches PMO just to keep basic members like me away, but I always cache with a PM and we can still log my finds.

We see you are from Virginia. We have several ECs in the State, oops, Commonwealth, and you are welcome to log them. Bring your favorite pet He/she can log them too! None of ours are PM and never will be! ;)

Thank you sir, I have logged one of your caches in Lee County. Dad said that there are also some of your earthcache listings near our home. We are planning a family earthcache outing in a few days on 10/10/10. I was at the earthcache event hosted by Cav Scout in the Cumberland Gap last year, but we did not do any group caching. We got to tour the Gap Cave, and Soilders Cave with the Park Ranger. I am also helping develop a new earthcache with dad, he loves to place what he calls history caches, and says that earthcaches are very difficult to develop, so we should be grateful to other geocachers that are able to develop them for us to enjoy. Dad says that we should give more than we take, I think that is why he feels so strongly about PMO earthcaches in Parks.

 

Thanks again,

Schnitzle. :D

Thanks.

Yes, we did check and saw that you found one of our ECs in Virginia. Go for all the rest! B)

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Unfortunately one reason for making an earthcache a premium cache is to cut down on logs which have to be delete.

 

I am having people claim to have found my earthcaches with a log which reads" I visited this area five years ago" with no photograph or attempt at answering the questions.

 

I try to be very flexiable . If some one has visited the site and answers the questions I let them log or email them a link so that they can find the correct answers.

 

If they ask for help I email them links to pages which give them the answers.

However I really do not see why I should have to waste my time deleting logs posted by people who are cheating!

I have one earth cache that is a premium cache and I have not had to delete any logs for that cache so I am considering making all my earth caches premium member caches only.

 

Rant over

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Unfortunately one reason for making an earthcache a premium cache is to cut down on logs which have to be delete.

 

I am having people claim to have found my earthcaches with a log which reads" I visited this area five years ago" with no photograph or attempt at answering the questions.

 

I try to be very flexiable . If some one has visited the site and answers the questions I let them log or email them a link so that they can find the correct answers.

 

If they ask for help I email them links to pages which give them the answers.

However I really do not see why I should have to waste my time deleting logs posted by people who are cheating!

I have one earth cache that is a premium cache and I have not had to delete any logs for that cache so I am considering making all my earth caches premium member caches only.

 

Rant over

So what you are saying is that ONLY basic members cheat, and PM's do not? That don't sound like a good reason to make an educational EarthCache limited to PM's only to me, more like a "because I can" thing. Why even bother to develop a educational type cache, just to share it with a seclect few geocachers?

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So what you are saying is that ONLY basic members cheat, and PM's do not? That don't sound like a good reason to make an educational EarthCache limited to PM's only to me, more like a "because I can" thing. Why even bother to develop a educational type cache, just to share it with a seclect few geocachers?

I don't see that's what he said at all. What I hear is that there is a level of commitment that premium members have that the occasional cacher might not. Before I get blasted for that comment, I have to say this thread reminded me to check up on a log by a premium member on my first EC. He logged it in August and as of today had not replied to my email requesting he send an email at least to verify he was there. There was no photo and his log consisted entirely of "thanks."

 

I too like to be flexible because I want people to visit the areas I am privileged to have listed as EarthCaches. However, a one word log, no email or photo does nothing to prove they were even there. So the log got deleted today. This was only the second log I have deleted on either one of my ECs so far. So that makes the deleted count PM:1, regular member:1.

 

Neither of my ECs are premium only and I don't expect to limit it for future ones either (and I've got a few in the works for the coming year). However, the audit log alone would entice me.

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So what you are saying is that ONLY basic members cheat, and PM's do not? That don't sound like a good reason to make an educational EarthCache limited to PM's only to me, more like a "because I can" thing. Why even bother to develop a educational type cache, just to share it with a seclect few geocachers?

I don't see that's what he said at all. What I hear is that there is a level of commitment that premium members have that the occasional cacher might not. Before I get blasted for that comment, I have to say this thread reminded me to check up on a log by a premium member on my first EC. He logged it in August and as of today had not replied to my email requesting he send an email at least to verify he was there. There was no photo and his log consisted entirely of "thanks."

 

I too like to be flexible because I want people to visit the areas I am privileged to have listed as EarthCaches. However, a one word log, no email or photo does nothing to prove they were even there. So the log got deleted today. This was only the second log I have deleted on either one of my ECs so far. So that makes the deleted count PM:1, regular member:1.

 

Neither of my ECs are premium only and I don't expect to limit it for future ones either (and I've got a few in the works for the coming year). However, the audit log alone would entice me.

I too am flexible with our EC's, and have only had to delete two logs so far. Both were PM's. One user did repost with a photo, which just proves that they were there. They also sent a one word incorrect, far off, Googled, answer. I let it stand, but did they undertake any of the educational tasks to log the cache correctly? NO! You have a VERY good reason to delete the users log on your EC, I would have done the same. The other log that I deleted, was a have to case. The user gave directions for a short-cut across a golf course, which walkers are not allowed. That users post was against the agreement that was made with the land manager of the State Park, that all seekers would stay on marked Trails only, as with in any other State Park. I explained this in an email to the user as to why I deleted their log, and asked them to repost without giving directions to cut across the golf course. They did not repost.

I would not make any EC PMO, they are educational caches. I have learned more about earth science through geocaching for earthcaches than I did in school. We are all not educated equally, and EC's are not easy to develop and get approved for everyone. I just think that it is bad that some educated and intellegent geocacher that can develop a great EarthCache, one that people would go out of their way to visit just for the "WoW" factor alone, make the cache PMO just because they can to keep a basic member that may not be able to afford the PM membership fee. <_< I really like the audit log also, I wish that there were a way to keep it, and get rid of the PMO feature on EC's. :rolleyes:

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