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Dorsetgal & GeoDog

Are we no longer allowed to require a photo?

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I have had an earthcache for a few years now.

 

People visit, they send me answers to their required questions and upload a photo that I ask for - them with their GPSr with a ferry across a harbour entrance in the background. Some folks are shy and just upload a pic if their GPSr with the ferry, that's fine by me.

 

Today, somebody logged a find for last May - no photo and no answers mailed to me.

 

I wrote and enquired about the photo and their answers. They claim according to the earthcache guidelines that I cannot ask for a photo, and still make no offer of answers to the questions.

 

Further enquiries brought a forwarded email with someone elses answers.

 

So - have the rules changed so that a photo cannot be asked for?

 

As this person has no photo, and sent someone elses answers I have no real idea if they completed the cache requirements or not.

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I have had an earthcache for a few years now.

 

People visit, they send me answers to their required questions and upload a photo that I ask for - them with their GPSr with a ferry across a harbour entrance in the background. Some folks are shy and just upload a pic if their GPSr with the ferry, that's fine by me.

 

Today, somebody logged a find for last May - no photo and no answers mailed to me.

 

I wrote and enquired about the photo and their answers. They claim according to the earthcache guidelines that I cannot ask for a photo, and still make no offer of answers to the questions.

 

Further enquiries brought a forwarded email with someone elses answers.

 

So - have the rules changed so that a photo cannot be asked for?

 

As this person has no photo, and sent someone elses answers I have no real idea if they completed the cache requirements or not.

My understanding of the guidelines are that a photo unrelated to the geologic content of the EarthCache can not be required.

 

A photo of just faces or objects should not be required for logging.

 

There is no reason for not answering the educational questions.

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In this case, the cache is about the harbour entrance, the detail of the harbour and the tides and how they affect traffic through the entrance.

 

The photo asked for is the person / GPSr and ferry at harbour entrance - although I never quibble or have a problem with people who wish for anonymity and accept just the GPSr against the background.

 

The cacher is telling me I cannot ask for a photo ( of course this is after they have said they have no photo).

 

They are using this para from earthcache.org to justify.

 

"Logging of an EarthCache must involve visitors undertaking some educational task that relates to the Earth science at the site.  This could involve measuring or estimating the size of some feature or aspect of the site, collecting and recording data (such as time of a tidal bore), or sending an e-mail to the cache owner with the answer to Earth science related questions they obtained by reading an information display. While photographs may be requested, they do not take the place of other logging requirements. Taking a photograph alone or asking people to do internet research does NOT meet these logging guidelines. Requests for specific content in the photograph (must include the visitor's face, for example) will be considered an additional logging requirement and must be optional. Cache owners may not delete the cache seeker's log based solely on optional tasks."

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I beleive the no photo requirement was all earthcaches that were approved from Jan 01 2010 & presnt. To my understanding it does not include any earthcache from Dec 31 2009 & prior, but I may be wrong though.

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You can no longer require a photo of a person's face and/or GPSr.

 

You can ask for photographs of the site as a form of data collection.

 

In this case, since they have not fulfilled the other requirements, you can deny them permission to log the Earthcache. You should, however, bring your Earthcache description into compliance with the new guidelines.

 

If you're concerned about deterring so-called "armchair" logs, consider adding another on-site task, like taking a measurement or noting a detail that can't be Googled.

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Hi!

 

Just to clarify, the user in question (my husband) visited the cache with me back in May. He took a pic of me (he hates having his picture taken), and I emailed our answers. As he is horribly lazy when it comes to logging, it is only just now that he is logging finds going back to April after lots of nagging from me, so he just logged your EC assuming you would be happy to accept his log as he said in it that I'd already given our answers. When asked, he sent you a copy of the answers I originally emailed you, rather than write them out himself (he said our answers would have been the same so he didn't see the point in rewording them). His use of my forwarded email was an attempt to prove by him that we attended the log together, which we did. My mugshot didn't take itself!

 

It may seem awkward that we cache under seperate accounts, but I do more caches than him, so he wanted to keep track of his own cache count instead of us both claiming a cache under one account which we didn't both attend.

 

I have sent you a message DorsetGal, apologising if he's been a bit rude about it, but he did provide answers, and the photo isn't required but I can confirm he was there :laughing: I will make sure that he is more prompt with logs in future, particularly with Earthcaches.

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I know generally when My wife, myself & other members of our team do a earthcache, one of us will send the answers in for all. We explain to the owner that answers are submitted for xxx,xxx,,xxx,,,xxx,,, & so forth generally if all our answers are the same. There has been once or twice to where either myself or one of our team members have come up with a completely different answer -vs- the remaining. In that case, within the same email it is generally "put all the answers are for,,,,, with the exception of xxxx,,, who's answer is this"

 

Earthcaches are generally the ones I try to log first so as not to forget the information that was requested & then try to remember it a few months later.

 

I have had an earthcache for a few years now.

 

Today, somebody logged a find for last May - no photo and no answers mailed to me.

 

Further enquiries brought a forwarded email with someone elses answers.

 

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I was not told in the original email that the answers were for two people.

 

The person logged the cache and did not contact mr - when asked they sent someone elses answers - and refused to upload a photo.

 

There is no real evidence now, 5 months later that the second person was there.

 

The photo requirements appear to have changed for caches published after 1 January 2010. The logger is claiming exemption under new guidelines which came about after the cache was set.

 

I find it almost inconceivable that someone who was actually there and performed the tasks would not complete one part and then 5 months later claim some exemption to the only hit that proves they were actually there!

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My Earthcaches ask for unique answers for each account, precisely because of issues like this.

 

While the new guideline regarding photos only came into effect this year, it does apply to all Earthcaches. They aren't hunting people down for it, but if a log deletion comes under appeal, you will be asked to change it.

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They aren't hunting people down for it, but if a log deletion comes under appeal, you will be asked to change it.

 

That is my understanding as well. Like the similar ALR change in the Guidelines, there does not appear to be any Grandfathering of older Listings, but it doesn't appear that Groundspeak is going to go out on an Inquisition style witch hunt to seek these types of issues out unless they come to their attention via a complaint to contact@.

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Really, I don't appreciate being presumed to be a liar, and if the CO would like to believe that I went on holiday to Dorset by myself and cached solo (despite numerous references to "we" and my husband's caching name in other logs), and that 4 months later my husband for no logical reason decided to log caches that I'd found then I really have nothing further to add, because it's clearly a doomed conversation.

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They aren't hunting people down for it, but if a log deletion comes under appeal, you will be asked to change it.

 

That is my understanding as well. Like the similar ALR change in the Guidelines, there does not appear to be any Grandfathering of older Listings, but it doesn't appear that Groundspeak is going to go out on an Inquisition style witch hunt to seek these types of issues out unless they come to their attention via a complaint to contact@.

 

I still post my picture when it's asked for, but I've been mentioning the change to Earthcache owners when I send them my responses. As an owner I know I'd rather avoid having a conflict with a visitor because I wasn't aware of the change.

 

I'm not sure what, if any, measures have been taken to get the message out to Earthcache owners. It seems a bit careless on the part of Groundspeak to simply wait for conflicts to arise.

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I'm not sure what, if any, measures have been taken to get the message out to Earthcache owners. It seems a bit careless on the part of Groundspeak to simply wait for conflicts to arise.

 

Indeed it does seem odd, especially as now we have the cachers wife complaining on his behalf.

 

It has been an interesting poiint of conversation here today and we have all had a good laugh at the cacher and his wife trying to persuade those who will listen about allowing the log to stand. If it was that important, you should have logged it 5 months ago huh?

 

24 hours later he has yet to send his answers to the logging requirements, so it seems I am justified in doing the necessary. :laughing:

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Really, I don't appreciate being presumed to be a liar, and if the CO would like to believe that I went on holiday to Dorset by myself and cached solo (despite numerous references to "we" and my husband's caching name in other logs), and that 4 months later my husband for no logical reason decided to log caches that I'd found then I really have nothing further to add, because it's clearly a doomed conversation.

 

I have not said anyone is a liar, but if you and your husband feel you do not need to provide proof then why bother with geocaching at all?

 

I can only go by what the cacher in question says ... HE did not submit a photo and HE has not submitted a set of answers. All he has done is sent a set of badgering emails ... and then you joined in.

 

YOUR email at the time, made no mention of other cachers in your party ...

 

If the two of you were there, then it would have taken 5 seconds to take another photo ... and mention you were together in your email, that's exactly what other people do.

 

Frankly, nobody else has ever had an issue with it, nor have I ever had to deal with a cachers wife on his behalf before ... but then again, there is always a first time, and I guess this is it. Interesting!

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Really, I don't appreciate being presumed to be a liar, and if the CO would like to believe that I went on holiday to Dorset by myself and cached solo (despite numerous references to "we" and my husband's caching name in other logs), and that 4 months later my husband for no logical reason decided to log caches that I'd found then I really have nothing further to add, because it's clearly a doomed conversation.

 

I have not said anyone is a liar, but if you and your husband feel you do not need to provide proof then why bother with geocaching at all?

 

I can only go by what the cacher in question says ... HE did not submit a photo and HE has not submitted a set of answers. All he has done is sent a set of badgering emails ... and then you joined in.

 

YOUR email at the time, made no mention of other cachers in your party ...

 

If the two of you were there, then it would have taken 5 seconds to take another photo ... and mention you were together in your email, that's exactly what other people do.

 

Frankly, nobody else has ever had an issue with it, nor have I ever had to deal with a cachers wife on his behalf before ... but then again, there is always a first time, and I guess this is it. Interesting!

 

I contacted you because I wanted to confirm to you that he wasn't just claiming he was there with me, also I realised he was getting mardy in his emails to you, so I thought it better if I told him to leave it. Funnily enough, married couples like to support each other :)

 

FYI, in my email to you, I said (editing out answers here, obviously):

 

"Hi!!! Visited Poole yesterday and went to the harbour. Here are our answers:

 

We reckoned it took xxxxxxxxxxxx mins and looking at the map it covered about xxxxxkm so that puts it at xxxxxxkm p/h. We thought that xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx must have quite an affect on the ferry service"

 

Also adding in a subsequent reply when you clarified that one of my answers was off that "Aaaah! My husband said xxxxxxxxx, he will be smug, lol. "

 

He has emailed you his answers in that he emailed you my answers, as we worked together, but I will ask him to send you the answers in his own words if you like.

Edited by Keturah

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Really, I don't appreciate being presumed to be a liar, and if the CO would like to believe that I went on holiday to Dorset by myself and cached solo (despite numerous references to "we" and my husband's caching name in other logs), and that 4 months later my husband for no logical reason decided to log caches that I'd found then I really have nothing further to add, because it's clearly a doomed conversation.

 

I have not said anyone is a liar, but if you and your husband feel you do not need to provide proof then why bother with geocaching at all?

 

I can only go by what the cacher in question says ... HE did not submit a photo and HE has not submitted a set of answers. All he has done is sent a set of badgering emails ... and then you joined in.

 

YOUR email at the time, made no mention of other cachers in your party ...

 

If the two of you were there, then it would have taken 5 seconds to take another photo ... and mention you were together in your email, that's exactly what other people do.

 

Frankly, nobody else has ever had an issue with it, nor have I ever had to deal with a cachers wife on his behalf before ... but then again, there is always a first time, and I guess this is it. Interesting!

 

I contacted you because I wanted to confirm to you that he wasn't just claiming he was there with me, also I realised he was getting mardy in his emails to you, so I thought it better if I told him to leave it. Funnily enough, married couples like to support each other :)

 

FYI, in my email to you, I said (editing out answers here, obviously):

 

"Hi!!! Visited Poole yesterday and went to the harbour. Here are our answers:

 

We reckoned it took xxxxxxxxxxxx mins and looking at the map it covered about xxxxxkm so that puts it at xxxxxxkm p/h. We thought that xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx must have quite an affect on the ferry service"

 

Also adding in a subsequent reply when you clarified that one of my answers was off that "Aaaah! My husband said xxxxxxxxx, he will be smug, lol. "

 

He has emailed you his answers in that he emailed you my answers, as we worked together, but I will ask him to send you the answers in his own words if you like.

 

Let's just get this clear for a moment shall we?

 

Cacher B claims a 4-5 month late find on an earthcache - he neither offers answers, nor photo, nor states he was there with anyone else.

 

Cacher B is asked for evidence he was there, like answers to the questions on the page and a photo - he forwards answers (which have now been corrected by the cache owner) from cacher A, who he then states was his wife. He makes no claim to have done any calculations himself and demands to log as he doesn't do photographs.

 

He then produces some quote from earthcache.org which was clearly written over two years after the cache in question was published. However, as cache owner, I do not believe the photo in question is an ALR as it requests the main feature of the cache, the ferry going across the busy harbour mouth.

 

Then ensues a series of emails that even Cacher A - who we now know to be his wife, are mardy.

 

Incidentally, cacher A at no point said, my husband and I completed this earthcache, he will be logging as ...

 

Cache owners set up caches for your pleasure not to be treated in this way.

 

I have, disabled the cache and may well archive it, as I really have better things to do than discuss what all 235 other cachers have found to be very simple requirements, well done a good days work by you both!

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I have, disabled the cache and may well archive it, as I really have better things to do than discuss what all 235 other cachers have found to be very simple requirements, well done a good days work by you both!

 

ok, so let me get this straight

you put time and effort into creating this EC, for which btw i admire you and anyone else that puts out EC, forget all the finders so far that enjoyed this and complied with your requirements and for a disagreement over one log you're ready to throw it all out the window with a click of the mouse and thus "punishing" hundreds/thousands more that will be enjoying finding this cache

 

with all due respect i think that is not exactly reasonable

 

of course you're free to do as you please

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with all due respect i think that is not exactly reasonable

 

of course you're free to do as you please

 

You haven't had the hassle from cacher B and his wife.

 

Also, without a photo, there is absolutely nothing to stop cachers sharing answers by email ... therefore no further point as I see in trying to retain the integrity of earthcaches.

 

Bring on the phantom loggers!

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Really, I don't appreciate being presumed to be a liar, and if the CO would like to believe that I went on holiday to Dorset by myself and cached solo (despite numerous references to "we" and my husband's caching name in other logs), and that 4 months later my husband for no logical reason decided to log caches that I'd found then I really have nothing further to add, because it's clearly a doomed conversation.

I understand your fustration. My wife and kids use the same PM account. She had a log deleted as stated by the CO "must clearly see a face" the first time, then her answers became an issue, which were measurements and having poor eye sight without contacts and the lack of being able to judge distance, they were quite off. We appealed because of the ALR and Geoaware disabled the cache until the CO corrected the photo requirements. She had a co-worker that took the photo help with the answers and resubmitted them along with a better photo. I don't mind posting my photo, but my wife has issues with uploading images on the internet. Many months later I log an EC in another State while on vacation, guess what? Same CO. My log did not get deleted at first, but the CO posted a note stating that I was illeaglly armed in the photo because of a holstered handgun (in Bear country). I posted a note with the law code concerning about being legally armed at the cache site, then my logs got deleted, not over my photo, but one of my five answers were not correct, and the CO would not say which. I think they were all correct, as I visited the site on two different days and researched all the answers that were posted at the site before submitting. I contacted the CO and uploaded more photos of me and the kids, less the holstered handgun. The CO must have agreed to let my log stand, but I also appealed to Groundspeak explaining to them the problem with this one CO that seems to be holding a grudge against this user account.

I have developed two EarthCaches and leave the Photo an option. My questions are strong enough to know if a cacher visited the site and was there for the purpose of seeking the EC and not Waymarking, as there is a waymark near the one EC. We can still ask for photos in EC's as Geoaware states in the other thread, and as I understand the photo requirement was not granfathered on any EC, and all EC's must be adjusted removing the photo ALR's as discribed in EC guideline # 6. :)

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with all due respect i think that is not exactly reasonable

 

of course you're free to do as you please

 

You haven't had the hassle from cacher B and his wife.

 

Also, without a photo, there is absolutely nothing to stop cachers sharing answers by email ... therefore no further point as I see in trying to retain the integrity of earthcaches.

 

Bring on the phantom loggers!

 

that's 2 persons out of the over 200 finds you had on that cache

but i see now that is not really due to those two that you're considering archiving it, but rather due to the fact that you can't request them to post a picture

 

i believe Narcissa offered a great solution to circumvent people from logging bogus finds

 

 

If you're concerned about deterring so-called "armchair" logs, consider adding another on-site task, like taking a measurement or noting a detail that can't be Googled.

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These two people have raised the issue and through their tenacity and what are hardly polite emails, the issue has been brought to a head.

 

The answers cannot be googled, in fact the wife did not get all the answers correct, I corrected them and allowed her to log, the husband then forwarded that email back to me as his offering.

 

It is as tenuous as it gets.

 

Once any cache becomes more trouble than it is worth, that is the time to archive.

 

Looking at many other earthcaches - requesting photogrpahic evidence is hardly unique to me.

 

For me, it is about getting it right, making sure everyone has a fair call, for them it is about one log ... if the boot had been on the other foot I would have moved along after one email, as I happen to have respect for people who go out of their way and set up caches ... but we are all different.

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And this is why I don't do earthcaches or virtuals that have the requirement that you have to be in the picture at the site. I don't post pictures of me on this site. I'm more than happy to take a picture of something at the site without me in the picture.

 

But I'd rather not get into the match about ALR and photo requirements (which are very clearly stated from what I'm reading from geoaware....).

 

And this is why I don't do virtuals or earthcaches with my friend who is always a month or so behind in logging because I may write down the answers and he uses them... and all it would take is a hostile cache owner to ruin the fun for both of us. I enjoy earth caches but am very leery of doing them outside of my area where I don't know the cache owners due to reactions just like this.

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I've done this earthcache and it's not hard to follow the instructions. I've also had people try to log my earthcache by emailing me after logging it saying that they didn't realise there was an earthcache there until they got home so they've loaded a photo taken nearby (but doesn't meet the requirements) and hope that will be enough even though they've supplied no answers. When you delete the log and tell them it isn't enough they get very nasty in their emails. I can understand why Wendy has chosen to disable it. Caches are placed for the enjoyment of all but that includes the CO who gets to see people enjoy it. There's no enjoyment when treated like dirt for expecting someone to meet the same requirements everyone else has done to claim the find. I have archived caches after emails criticizing the cache for no good reason, why should I put the effort in just to get grief? There's nothing wrong with a bit of constructive criticism, especially with a new cache from a new cacher but there's no need to be rude to the CO.

 

Earthcaches are the hardest to get published and those placing them deserve the respect for the effort put in.

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You haven't had the hassle from cacher B and his wife.

 

Also, without a photo, there is absolutely nothing to stop cachers sharing answers by email ... therefore no further point as I see in trying to retain the integrity of earthcaches.

 

Bring on the phantom loggers!

 

If you're receiving harassing emails, report them to Groundspeak.

 

As for the photo requirement, it is possible to create rigorous logging tasks that must be done on site and eliminate the need for photographs with no relevance to the Earthcache lesson.

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And this is why I don't do earthcaches or virtuals that have the requirement that you have to be in the picture at the site. I don't post pictures of me on this site. I'm more than happy to take a picture of something at the site without me in the picture.

 

But I'd rather not get into the match about ALR and photo requirements (which are very clearly stated from what I'm reading from geoaware....).

 

And this is why I don't do virtuals or earthcaches with my friend who is always a month or so behind in logging because I may write down the answers and he uses them... and all it would take is a hostile cache owner to ruin the fun for both of us. I enjoy earth caches but am very leery of doing them outside of my area where I don't know the cache owners due to reactions just like this.

I understand what you are talking about. I know most of the EarthCache owners in our area, but have had trouble with one CO while caching on vacation or work travels. The EarthCache guidelines are clear to me also, EC's are supposed to be educational and related to Earth science, written to where a 14 YO school kid can understand and complete. I am really glad for the new guidlines as it shows respect to people that don't upload photos on the internet, and it keeps some mean spirited CO from deleting your log for such a silly reason as you or your GPS was not in the photo. It seems that EC's are a pain for alot of geocachers, I have 40 finds in 4 States and am a Gold level EC Master. I just bought an Official EarthCache geocoin from Groundspeak and plan on activating it on Earth Day this October and use it to visit my finds with. I do limit the EC's that I seek for the same reasons as you state.

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And this is why I don't do earthcaches or virtuals that have the requirement that you have to be in the picture at the site. I don't post pictures of me on this site. I'm more than happy to take a picture of something at the site without me in the picture.

 

But I'd rather not get into the match about ALR and photo requirements (which are very clearly stated from what I'm reading from geoaware....).

 

And this is why I don't do virtuals or earthcaches with my friend who is always a month or so behind in logging because I may write down the answers and he uses them... and all it would take is a hostile cache owner to ruin the fun for both of us. I enjoy earth caches but am very leery of doing them outside of my area where I don't know the cache owners due to reactions just like this.

I understand what you are talking about. I know most of the EarthCache owners in our area, but have had trouble with one CO while caching on vacation or work travels. The EarthCache guidelines are clear to me also, EC's are supposed to be educational and related to Earth science, written to where a 14 YO school kid can understand and complete. I am really glad for the new guidlines as it shows respect to people that don't upload photos on the internet, and it keeps some mean spirited CO from deleting your log for such a silly reason as you or your GPS was not in the photo. It seems that EC's are a pain for alot of geocachers, I have 40 finds in 4 States and am a Gold level EC Master. I just bought an Official EarthCache geocoin from Groundspeak and plan on activating it on Earth Day this October and use it to visit my finds with. I do limit the EC's that I seek for the same reasons as you state.

 

My plan was to work on my earth cache masters thing on my last vacation. After one earth cache out of the area where not only was a picture of me or my unit required but the answers to the question were no where to be found on site (and the staff at the facility did not know the answers either) I stopped. I looked at the requirements for the rest of them I printed out and a majority of them wanted a picture of me at the site. After witnessing these situations on the forums it is clear to me that the owners of earthcaches are not aware of the guidelines and I wasn't about to put a lot of effort in to get answers to their questions when I faced the real possibility of deletion due to a picture requirement.

 

I like the new guidelines that are in place. If the owners would get on board with them now it would be even better. But until the owners get on board I do limit earthcaches.

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My understanding of the guidelines are that a photo unrelated to the geologic content of the EarthCache can not be required.

A photo of just faces or objects should not be required for logging.

This is correct.

 

I beleive the no photo requirement was all earthcaches that were approved from Jan 01 2010 & presnt. To my understanding it does not include any earthcache from Dec 31 2009 & prior, but I may be wrong though.

Actually, EarthCaches published prior to the guideline change in January were not grandfathered, so changes should be made to those caches if the logging requirements do not meet current guidelines.

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snip

And this is why I don't do virtuals or earthcaches with my friend who is always a month or so behind in logging because I may write down the answers and he uses them... and all it would take is a hostile cache owner to ruin the fun for both of us. I enjoy earth caches but am very leery of doing them outside of my area where I don't know the cache owners due to reactions just like this.

 

Help those EarthCache developers who still have photo requirements not complying with the new guidelines to “get on board” with the changes. Very few of the total number frequent the forums, or earthcache.org, enough to be aware of these changes. Groundspeak has stated they will deal with these on a case by case basis and I can’t blame them, it would be quite a task to audit every pre-existing EarthCache for non compliant requests and deal with bringing all of them into compliance.

 

The key is to address these with a minimum amount of frustration for you and not to go into it looking for a fight.

 

Preface or end your logging email on those EC’s with a polite explanation and a link to the new guidelines, and then state that you’re not comfortable with your photo on the internet. Fulfill the logging requirements to the best of your ability and if you can, attach a photo of something at the site unique enough to be an alternate proof of visit. Save the sent email.

 

Log the EC online as you would any other, without any mention of the guidelines or lack of photo.

Some developers will thank you for bringing it to their attention; some will not reply but will not delete your log, some will make an issue of the photo. If they specifically make an issue of the photo, report it. Forward your sent email and the developers reply and let Groundspeak handle it, without any more correspondence from you to the developer about the photo issue.

 

If at any time you feel it is too much of a hassle to pursue the smiley, then you have still visited a site and learned from it. You’ve gained an experience, don’t let it be cheapened by a fight over an emoticon. And don’t forego EarthCaches just to avoid a possibly difficult developer.

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It's usually as easy as this to provide proof you were there...most folks in these parts know me by the yellow hat.

743a296c-63e6-46b4-900e-b7d7adf7040e.jpg

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It's usually as easy as this to provide proof you were there...most folks in these parts know me by the yellow hat.

743a296c-63e6-46b4-900e-b7d7adf7040e.jpg

 

Hey can I borrow your bow and arrow? :)

 

 

PS I have been furnished with advice from TPTB now, and will take such action as is necessary. :)

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snip

And this is why I don't do virtuals or earthcaches with my friend who is always a month or so behind in logging because I may write down the answers and he uses them... and all it would take is a hostile cache owner to ruin the fun for both of us. I enjoy earth caches but am very leery of doing them outside of my area where I don't know the cache owners due to reactions just like this.

 

Help those EarthCache developers who still have photo requirements not complying with the new guidelines to “get on board” with the changes. Very few of the total number frequent the forums, or earthcache.org, enough to be aware of these changes. Groundspeak has stated they will deal with these on a case by case basis and I can’t blame them, it would be quite a task to audit every pre-existing EarthCache for non compliant requests and deal with bringing all of them into compliance.

 

The key is to address these with a minimum amount of frustration for you and not to go into it looking for a fight.

 

Preface or end your logging email on those EC’s with a polite explanation and a link to the new guidelines, and then state that you’re not comfortable with your photo on the internet. Fulfill the logging requirements to the best of your ability and if you can, attach a photo of something at the site unique enough to be an alternate proof of visit. Save the sent email.

 

Log the EC online as you would any other, without any mention of the guidelines or lack of photo.

Some developers will thank you for bringing it to their attention; some will not reply but will not delete your log, some will make an issue of the photo. If they specifically make an issue of the photo, report it. Forward your sent email and the developers reply and let Groundspeak handle it, without any more correspondence from you to the developer about the photo issue.

 

If at any time you feel it is too much of a hassle to pursue the smiley, then you have still visited a site and learned from it. You’ve gained an experience, don’t let it be cheapened by a fight over an emoticon. And don’t forego EarthCaches just to avoid a possibly difficult developer.

 

For the ones I didn't do on vacation I ended up visiting almost all the spots and getting the same information that I had from the cache page.

 

Understanding that lots of cache owners don't know about the requirement the reality is we have seen plenty of times in this forum those that don't understand and then don't want to understand such as this thread. I'm not willing to deal with the argument that ensues from these situations because people are so touchy about it. Not all people are but the ones that are so hyper sensitive about it that it makes the entire thing a miserable experience. So I opted to make my vacation a good experience and avoid the problem altogether.

 

I know that ground speak can't audit all the earth caches and I know they wouldn't try to either. But obviously it still comes as some shock and with some confusion about the picture policy as it pertains to earth caches. It would probably be in the best interest of all for there to be some part of the Groundspeak newsletter sent out weekly addressing this or an e-mail to cache owners in general.

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Check your PM thru Geocaching.com I attempted to send one thru the forums but it stated you did not exsist.

I have had an earthcache for a few years now.

 

People visit, they send me answers to their required questions and upload a photo that I ask for - them with their GPSr with a ferry across a harbour entrance in the background. Some folks are shy and just upload a pic if their GPSr with the ferry, that's fine by me.

 

Today, somebody logged a find for last May - no photo and no answers mailed to me.

 

I wrote and enquired about the photo and their answers. They claim according to the earthcache guidelines that I cannot ask for a photo, and still make no offer of answers to the questions.

 

Further enquiries brought a forwarded email with someone elses answers.

 

So - have the rules changed so that a photo cannot be asked for?

 

As this person has no photo, and sent someone elses answers I have no real idea if they completed the cache requirements or not.

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Thank you Sandy for clarifying this for me.

 

I beleive the no photo requirement was all earthcaches that were approved from Jan 01 2010 & presnt. To my understanding it does not include any earthcache from Dec 31 2009 & prior, but I may be wrong though.

Actually, EarthCaches published prior to the guideline change in January were not grandfathered, so changes should be made to those caches if the logging requirements do not meet current guidelines.

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A quick answer the the OPs original question is YES unless Geoaware has changed something and/or Groundspeak interprets his guidelines differently!

 

A little history for those who are interested:

 

"Jan 14 2010, 09:02 AM

Post #17

 

Geoaware

 

Group: Premium Members

Posts: 234

Joined: 18-November 03

From: near Platteville, Colorado

 

Just so everyone is very clear on this issue. The guideline reads :

 

Logging of an EarthCache must involve visitors undertaking some educational task that relates to the Earth science at the site. This could involve measuring or estimating the size of some feature or aspect of the site, collecting and recording data (such as time of a tidal bore), or sending an e-mail to the cache owner with the answer to Earth science related questions they obtained by reading an information display. While photographs may be requested, they do not take the place of other logging requirements. Taking a photograph alone or asking people to do internet research does NOT meet these logging guidelines. Requests for specific content in the photograph (must include the visitor's face, for example) will be considered an additional logging requirement and must be optional. Cache owners may not delete the cache seeker's log based solely on optional tasks.

 

So you MAY request a photograph but it can't take the place of a good on-site logging task. If your logging tasks are poor, we will ask you to strengthen them before your EC is published.

 

If you want specific content in the photograph then the photograph has to be optional. We will insist that you make these optional before we publish.

 

So please feel free to ask people to submit photographs once you have developed great logging tasks that people can only do on-site!

 

Geoaware:

 

You are correct!

 

Note however that your site-specific questions will need to be strong. The photo requirement must be made after the questions. They can't be questions answered by an internet search or using online tools (such as Google Earth).

 

This post has been edited by geoaware: Jan 14 2010, 09:41 AM

1. Question: (2. required: (if you want to) a photo taken by the person at the cache place.) YES!!!!

2. Yes - but if you request any specific content (like a persons face), then the photo can only be optional!

 

The term 'specific content' refers to content that is not related to the site or educational logging tasks. For example, asking for the face of a cacher, a picture of their vehicle, the picture of their dog......are not related to the site or the logging task. These photo requests MUST be optional.

 

THE FINAL ANSWER:

 

QUOTE(Konnarock Kid & Marge @ Jan 24 2010, 06:31 PM)

 

If educational questions are sufficient and everything is otherwise OK, can you require a photo if it is not specific as to faces, etc., but is site specific and certainly related to the text? When I say require I mean that the log can be deleted if said photo is not posted!

 

 

Geoaware

 

You are correct. That is exactly what the guidelines mean.

 

If you are not asking for specific non-site related content you can ask for a photo.

 

If you ask for something in the photo that is not related to the educational logging task or the site, the photo must be optional and you can't delete a log based on the lack of photo alone."

 

Of course when we say "FINAL ANSWER" we say that in jest. Who knows? :P

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