Not logging you finds in time

[knowschad]

I have to disagree with your call on this one. Just because the person didn't sign YOUR log, they did find a cache and signed a log, the point of which is to prove that they were there and that they found the cache. She found it first, so she was the first to find. Not that tough to figure out.

"Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed."

 

The guidelines say the log, not a log. The word "the" means there's just one and it's the one the CO provided. Putting a piece of paper in an arbitrary place does not make it the log. With your point of view I could just throw down a micro with my own log sheet and then claim a found instead of a DNF. Most CO's would be seriously peeved about that.

 

Back on topic, I'm behind on my logging for the past week. We hit some pretty difficult caches and I want to spend some time writing a decent log entry with photos for them.

So, finding a cache with a wet or full log, and adding a slip of paper doesn't count as signing THE log? You know better than that. But nice play with semantics.

[+popokiiti]

When we first started geocaching, I didn't have a computer or account with GC.com. Getting computer time was next to impossible with all the work Popoki Nui has to do on the computer, so I eventually sprang for one of my own. Then I logged the caches that I could recall - took awhile too!

[knowschad]

As was pointed out. You have to sign THE log. Scribbling your name on a random piece of paper doesn't qualify and would leave your find subject to being deleted in accordance with GC guidelines.

You're gonna make that same argument? OK... no replacement logs for you, either, no matter how wet or full they are. Take a DNF, because by your own admission, you can't sign THE log

[knowschad]

It isn't always friendly. I recently published a cache and you had to search in the micro containers (there were only 15) in the ammo can to find the log. The person who claimed FTF didn't bother to find the log but just wrote on a loose object in the cache. I sent her a private note saying that I didn't consider her find legitimate (GC quidelines say specifically that you must sign the log)

I have to disagree with your call on this one. Just because the person didn't sign YOUR log, they did find a cache and signed a log, the point of which is to prove that they were there and that they found the cache. She found it first, so she was the first to find. Not that tough to figure out.

 

not a bad call at all, we have a cache around here that has a decoy, the log is not in the box but in a pen that is in the box

 

every single person that logs a find and says there was no logbook and they signed some random piece of paper gets their log deleted

OK, I guess that I may have to back off somewhat on my stance. I remember having somewhat similar ideas in my earlier caching days. My idea was to have a magnetic vinyl "log" painted olive drab on the side or bottom of an ammo can. I guess that's sort of the same thing. We also have another thread going currently about a cache where the pen is the log container. I guess that in both of those situations, I would be dead-set against someone signing a log that they added themselves.

[+thedeadpirate]

OK, I guess that I may have to back off somewhat on my stance. I remember having somewhat similar ideas in my earlier caching days. My idea was to have a magnetic vinyl "log" painted olive drab on the side or bottom of an ammo can. I guess that's sort of the same thing. We also have another thread going currently about a cache where the pen is the log container. I guess that in both of those situations, I would be dead-set against someone signing a log that they added themselves.

 

I'm glad you didn't make me disagree with you.

[+t4e]

 

Some people don't log online at all. I've been out with a few who don't do any online logging and just sign the logs in the caches.

 

I don't understand how logging can be "late" because really is there a mandated time frame for logging? If not then how can it possibly ever be late?

 

Also for those that have a delay in logging there are many many reasons for it beyond just vacation. Some people have lives outside of this hobby that take precedence over online logging.

 

same as briansnat i don't buy the "too busy" excuse

 

 

What I don't get are those who don't log their finds at all because they are "too busy". I've met them. I don't buy the fact that you have the time to spend an afternoon of geocaching but you don't have 2 minutes to log your find.

 

Edited June 29, 2010 by t4e

[+Chokecherry]

I never stated "too busy" to sign the log. I stated that people do have lives outside of geocaching that take precedence over signing an online log for geocaching. They go out for an entire day or afternoon and come home only to have to take care of some of that real life. And sure they may have down down but face it not everyone's first priority is a game.

[+RoundTownCachers]

I some times dont log my FTF untill someone else logs they missed it. I like to leave some motivation there for other people to go out and try to get the FTF like I did.

[Deceangi]

 

Some people don't log online at all. I've been out with a few who don't do any online logging and just sign the logs in the caches.

 

I don't understand how logging can be "late" because really is there a mandated time frame for logging? If not then how can it possibly ever be late?

 

Also for those that have a delay in logging there are many many reasons for it beyond just vacation. Some people have lives outside of this hobby that take precedence over online logging.

 

same as briansnat i don't buy the "too busy" excuse

 

 

What I don't get are those who don't log their finds at all because they are "too busy". I've met them. I don't buy the fact that you have the time to spend an afternoon of geocaching but you don't have 2 minutes to log your find.

 

 

Sorry you can add me to that list, of people who didn't have a spare 2 minutes.

 

I've just recently found the time to log a Attended at the first UK Mega in 2008, we stopped at the Mega Campsite. I actually drove 20 miles away and sat in my car, so I could get a connection with my dongle. Not so I could log my Attended, but so I could review and publish UK caches which had been waiting for a couple of days.

 

Also finds from a Trip to Dublin March 2009 to meet a Lackey over on Holiday.

 

Again at the 2009 UK Mega event, we stopped on the Mega Camping site. Internet connection was nearly non existent. What little I did have was spent in the review queue again. Benefiting other UK Geocachers, over my personal Geocaching experiences.

 

My reason simple, my time for the most part was either being spent as the main carer for my Spouse, or Reviewing and Publishing over 10,000 caches in the UK over a 12 month period. I'll leave you to guess at the sort of daily time commitment that involved.

 

I prioritised doing both of those over logging the 60+ finds I made in the 12 month period leading up to me logging them. with more UK colleagues coming on board and a slowing down in the number of cache submissions coming in.I had a little bit of free time to actually log out of one account, in under the other and log them.

 

Sometimes people don't genuinely have that spare 2 minutes. The large number of those finds were made with other geocachers whilst attending events, I'd come home and open the reviewer queue rather than take the time to log the attended/finds.

 

My time was either fully committed to being a carer or benefiting other members of the Geocaching community. It's only been in the last few months that I've stopped reviewing caches at 01:00-02:00 every night to try and clear out the queue [when I first started as a reviewer, I never left caches in the queue if I had time to sit at my PC. Over time this has become virtually impossible, due to the high numbers being submitted every day and continually increasing] .

 

My order of priority for the last four plus years? My Family, then the UK Geocaching Community, then my own personal Geocaching time! And it will continue to remain that way, because that's how I decided it would be when I became a reviewer. So if it takes me 2 years to log a Attended to this years UK Mega, and the few cache finds I get a chance to grab. Then I've got no worries and I know from comments made personally to me. That the UK geocaching community have no issues with that either, as they make jokes about me never getting round to logging on-line.

 

Deci

[+bflentje]

- ANYONE in the FTF game that gets irritated about late loggers deserves the mental torture. A devious strategy I agree but it IS part of the game. Try to get over it. Remember, we all play the way we like and the world certainly does not revolve around one player.

 

Mental torture is part of the game? Maybe such games should be left out of geocaching. Puzzle caches are enough mental torture for me.

 

I suppose when your kids play ball they don't keep score either, eh? Life isn't fair and it never will be.

[+Mother Wolf]

I would like to see people log their FTF ASAP. I am not a FTF hound but there have been 2 times that I can think of that I saw a new cache posted when I went on site (Im not a PM so I just see them when I look through the area maps & listings.) I decided to make the 30-45min trip to look for it, along with other caches in that area. When I got there the log on 1 was already signed. OK maybe the folks were still out caching. The other I couldnt find, only to find out that it wouldnt have mattered as it had already been found but it not only had the wrong coords, which the owner corrected several days later, the FTF person sent me an email after reading my log that they had found it several days ago but was waiting to log it in order of their other finds which were numerous since they had just been to a maga event & had some 100+ caches to log & that they had contacted the CO & explained that & it was ok.

 

On that note I think if you are FTF then log it ASAP. Be considerate.

[+bflentje]

... I decided to make the 30-45min trip to look for it, along with other caches in that area. When I got there the log on 1 was already signed...

 

I generally don't wait to log FTF's but if you're in to the FTF business AT ALL, you take this risk everytime you get in your car. And while it is irritating, you (the collective you) have no right to be angry about unlogged FTF's.

[+mountainman38]

I generally don't wait to log FTF's but if you're in to the FTF business AT ALL, you take this risk everytime you get in your car. And while it is irritating, you (the collective you) have no right to be angry about unlogged FTF's.

 

Yes, we do.

 

Everyone plays the game the way they have fun. Your way is not mine, so don't tell me what I have a right to do.

 

You can quote the exact rule all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that when someone rushes out to get the FTF then doesn't log it, they're being inconsiderate.

 

If they don't log just to mess with others, they're being jerks and need to find a new hobby. That right there is not funny.

[+BulldogBlitz]

You can quote the exact rule all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that when someone rushes out to get the FTF then doesn't log it, they're being inconsiderate.

 

If they don't log just to mess with others, they're being jerks and need to find a new hobby. That right there is not funny.

...ahh.... so the requirement should be added that if you are going to geocache you must have an iPhone or some other phone linked up so that you can log your finds in the field, lest you tick any of your fellow cachers off.

[+Mother Wolf]

I except the fact that if Im going for a FTF I might not be but when it was found several days before & still isnt logged for whatever reason thats not fun.

[+Gamaliel]

I suppose when your kids play ball they don't keep score either, eh? Life isn't fair and it never will be.

 

I also don't hit them with the ball deliberately and then say "why are you crying? Life's not fair!"

[+Avernar]

So, finding a cache with a wet or full log, and adding a slip of paper doesn't count as signing THE log? You know better than that. But nice play with semantics.

Actually it does count. You added to THE log, not replaced THE log. How's that for semantics?

 

Or if the log is missing and you replace it and tell the CO and he/she/it doesn't have a problem with your maintenance, then the new log becomes THE log. Or the CO could come by later and replace your temporary log with a better permanent log.

 

My point is that THE log is whatever the CO thinks is THE log.

[+Gamaliel]

You can quote the exact rule all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that when someone rushes out to get the FTF then doesn't log it, they're being inconsiderate.

 

If they don't log just to mess with others, they're being jerks and need to find a new hobby. That right there is not funny.

 

Well said.

 

If you have time to geocache, then you have time to log it (barring legit excuses like being on vacation away from your computer). If you don't log it out of apathy, you are being discourteous. If you don't log it on purpose, you are, as MM38 said, being a jerk. For the record, I'm not an FTF hound and I'll grab maybe one a year these days.

[+BulldogBlitz]

You can quote the exact rule all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that when someone rushes out to get the FTF then doesn't log it, they're being inconsiderate.

 

If they don't log just to mess with others, they're being jerks and need to find a new hobby. That right there is not funny.

 

Well said.

 

If you have time to geocache, then you have time to log it (barring legit excuses like being on vacation away from your computer). If you don't log it out of apathy, you are being discourteous. If you don't log it on purpose, you are, as MM38 said, being a jerk. For the record, I'm not an FTF hound and I'll grab maybe one a year these days.

 

sometimes, the FTF hounds are the discourteous ones.... and they are proud to say so in their logs...

 

1. got the notification at 10:30PM for the cemetary cache with posted daylight hours... went anyway.

2. saw the "no trespassing" sign... found a section of fence that didn't say "no trespassing" and climbed it.

3. ran 3 red lights on way to... parked on curb... snuck behind the cops who were patrolling the area...

 

so... the rude ones are the ones that don't race home or to the nearest internet cafe to log the find? most of the time, the FTFs that i'm able to get are the ones that are far enough away from the normal hounds....and on my route to work. some days it might take me 4+ hours to "log" the find online. you can really tell who is bothered by it too. it still won't make me run out and by a phone so i can log my finds with the cache still in hand. count me in with the rude folks.

[+mountainman38]

You can quote the exact rule all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that when someone rushes out to get the FTF then doesn't log it, they're being inconsiderate.

 

If they don't log just to mess with others, they're being jerks and need to find a new hobby. That right there is not funny.

 

Well said.

 

If you have time to geocache, then you have time to log it (barring legit excuses like being on vacation away from your computer). If you don't log it out of apathy, you are being discourteous. If you don't log it on purpose, you are, as MM38 said, being a jerk. For the record, I'm not an FTF hound and I'll grab maybe one a year these days.

 

sometimes, the FTF hounds are the discourteous ones.... and they are proud to say so in their logs...

 

1. got the notification at 10:30PM for the cemetary cache with posted daylight hours... went anyway.

2. saw the "no trespassing" sign... found a section of fence that didn't say "no trespassing" and climbed it.

3. ran 3 red lights on way to... parked on curb... snuck behind the cops who were patrolling the area...

 

so... the rude ones are the ones that don't race home or to the nearest internet cafe to log the find? most of the time, the FTFs that i'm able to get are the ones that are far enough away from the normal hounds....and on my route to work. some days it might take me 4+ hours to "log" the find online. you can really tell who is bothered by it too. it still won't make me run out and by a phone so i can log my finds with the cache still in hand. count me in with the rude folks.

 

If you can somehow equate those obviously bad cachers with the whole of cachers who enjoy the FTF challenge, you seriously need to work on your logic.

 

Anyone who is willing to go places after hours, run red lights, park on curbs, and then brag about it online is an idiot. Since there is no filter on who can cache (at least that would weed out these types), then obviously there is boorish behavior from both sides.

 

This does not justify not bothering to log your FTF, though. No one said you had to buy a smart phone -- I have one, but it's such a pain to log with that I do it when I get home. It's the logs days or weeks after the FTF, and especially the cachers who think they're clever to NOT log the FTF just to mess with people, that ruin a lot of the fun of the game.

[+BulldogBlitz]

If you can somehow equate those obviously bad cachers with the whole of cachers who enjoy the FTF challenge, you seriously need to work on your logic.

 

Anyone who is willing to go places after hours, run red lights, park on curbs, and then brag about it online is an idiot. Since there is no filter on who can cache (at least that would weed out these types), then obviously there is boorish behavior from both sides.

 

This does not justify not bothering to log your FTF, though. No one said you had to buy a smart phone -- I have one, but it's such a pain to log with that I do it when I get home. It's the logs days or weeks after the FTF, and especially the cachers who think they're clever to NOT log the FTF just to mess with people, that ruin a lot of the fun of the game.

 

just because you cannot live with the fact that second place is first loser, does not justify requiring everyone to run home immediately after being the first one to a cache to log an "FTF" online.

[knowschad]

I suppose when your kids play ball they don't keep score either, eh?

Do they still do that? I thought that scoring kids games went away in the 80's.

[+Gamaliel]

sometimes, the FTF hounds are the discourteous ones.... and they are proud to say so in their logs...

 

1. got the notification at 10:30PM for the cemetary cache with posted daylight hours... went anyway.

2. saw the "no trespassing" sign... found a section of fence that didn't say "no trespassing" and climbed it.

3. ran 3 red lights on way to... parked on curb... snuck behind the cops who were patrolling the area...

 

Those people are undeniably rude, and I wish we'd see less of that sort of behavior in geocaching. But this sort of behavior is hardly limited to FTF hounds: Exhibit A.

 

so... the rude ones are the ones that don't race home or to the nearest internet cafe to log the find? most of the time, the FTFs that i'm able to get are the ones that are far enough away from the normal hounds....and on my route to work. some days it might take me 4+ hours to "log" the find online. you can really tell who is bothered by it too. it still won't make me run out and by a phone so i can log my finds with the cache still in hand. count me in with the rude folks.

 

This old straw man again. No one is demanding you change your plans and rush home to your computer or buy a new phone or any number of implausible imaginary requirements. But when you are home, there's no excuse not to log it.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Gamaliel

[burtmanpd]

Now, there's nothing wrong with adding a little competition to anything, just as long as it's the 'friendly' variety

 

It isn't always friendly. I recently published a cache and you had to search in the micro containers (there were only 15) in the ammo can to find the log. The person who claimed FTF didn't bother to find the log but just wrote on a loose object in the cache. I sent her a private note saying that I didn't consider her find legitimate (GC quidelines say specifically that you must sign the log) and while I would leave the log I wouldn't give her credit for the FTF on the webpage. The hissy fit tirade that followed was a sight to see. She modified her post a couple of times with her venom (which I left for all to see and she eventually figured it was more about her than me) and then deleted it entirely. She was really upset because she had called in sick to go get it.

 

Not that person needs mental help. While most aren't like that there are some who take this FTF too seriously.

 

Sounds over-complicated, like the real find is the log, not the cache. I don't mind spending the day tromping through the mud, woods, thick brush or climbing rocks & hills, but if I wanted to spend the day opening containers, I could do that at home. Guess I just don't get it. But then again, so what. Not worth getting upset about it.

[+sbell111]

I log my finds as soon as possible. Sometimes what is possible is a matter of days. I had a FTF that took me 3 days to log because that was how long it took me to get home.

 

What I don't get are those who don't log their finds at all because they are "too busy". I've met them. I don't buy the fact that you have the time to spend an afternoon of geocaching but you don't have 2 minutes to log your find.

 

What galls me though (and I'm not a FTF hound at all) are those who get a FTF but won't log it promptly just to toy with their fellow geocachers. THAT is wrong.

I try to log my finds as promptly as practical. Very typically, that means that I log them within a few weeks of when the caches were found. On a few occasions, a cache or two have gone a year or two to be logged. Mea culpa. (Come to think of it, I still have finds to log from 6/14. I'll get around to logging them when the muse strikes me and my schedule permits.)

 

Whether or not I was the very first person to sign the log book or not has no bearing on the speed that the online logs are made. The idea that not logging a FTF immediately is rude to other finders doesn't fly with me.

 

If you choose to partake of the FTF race, you do so with the full knowledge that someone might beat you to the cache. On each new cache that you go after, you don't know if you were first until you open the box. If you are a FTF racer, and you are beaten to the cache, the FTF was probably made within the last day. If not, the FTF race isn't very impressive in your area. Either way, log your experiences online and move on with your life.

Edited June 29, 2010 by sbell111

[+briansnat]

... I decided to make the 30-45min trip to look for it, along with other caches in that area. When I got there the log on 1 was already signed...

 

I generally don't wait to log FTF's but if you're in to the FTF business AT ALL, you take this risk everytime you get in your car. And while it is irritating, you (the collective you) have no right to be angry about unlogged FTF's.

 

I don't think people need to drop what they are doing and immediately find a computer in order to log a FTF, but if you are able to log it promptly and refuse to log it simply to toy with other geocachers, that is inconsiderate.

 

Sure all FTF hounds risk not being FTF every time they head out the door. That is part of geocaching. But to intentionally withhold logging specifically to inconvenience others is not nice.

[+Mother Wolf]

I dont expect someone to log a find, FTF or not, as they find the cache. Unless you are one of those folks with all the little modern trinkets that allows you to do so then when you finish your caching for the day, very soon after that I would think would just be a courtesy. Folks that may be on vacation & no access to wireless or no PC with them then there is nothing you can do. However those that go out, cache & then just dont post their logs for days & days & weeks & months are just lazy, inconsiderate jerks.

 

As a CO I have received logs from folks anywhere from several wks to as much as a yr later. If its going to take you that long to log caches why bother?

[+mchaos]

First to find is first to find. Logging on the website at any time will not change that..

[+bflentje]

I generally don't wait to log FTF's but if you're in to the FTF business AT ALL, you take this risk everytime you get in your car. And while it is irritating, you (the collective you) have no right to be angry about unlogged FTF's.

 

Yes, we do.

 

Everyone plays the game the way they have fun. Your way is not mine, so don't tell me what I have a right to do.

 

You can quote the exact rule all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that when someone rushes out to get the FTF then doesn't log it, they're being inconsiderate.

 

If they don't log just to mess with others, they're being jerks and need to find a new hobby. That right there is not funny.

 

Wait.. I don't practice this strategy but if I did, I'D BE INCONSIDERATE? Perhaps you're being overly sensitive. For the fragile in this thread, let me change my statement.. You don't have the right to NOT have your feelings hurt. My gawd.

[+TomToad]

I guess I'm one of the weird ones here. When I go for an FTF, I almost prefer not to know if its been found. I guess I just like that anticipation of opening the cache to find out if it has been signed or not. When I open the cache, and see a blank log, it makes the FTF a whole lot sweeter.

One thing I do like is when the FTF writes down the time of the find to give me an idea of by how much I've missed it. I don't lose sleep over it when they don't.

Besides, the whole logging the FTF quickly seems pointless to me. If I can't get out the door within a half hour, I figure the FTF to be lost anyway. That wouldn't be enough time for the FTF to log even if he was prompt. The other day, I went after one of ashnikes' caches and got there 30 minutes after publishing, there were already 4 signatures ahead of mine.

 

On the subject of needle in haystack, I have this idea that anyone here could use if they wanted to. Get a PVC pipe, and taper one end into a point. Somehow fashion an eye for the other end to make it into a huge needle. Put a film can into the pipe and place the whole thing in the bottom of a bin or big bucket. Then fill the bin with several film cans. On the cache page, call it "Needle in the film can stack" In the description, tell them the log is in one of the film cans in the bin. Now sit back and watch the cachers start at the top, open each one, one by one, until they get to the bottom and realize that they were searching for a literal "needle" the entire time. []

[+mountainman38]

First to find is first to find. Logging on the website at any time will not change that..

 

Uh...is this actually in reference to something? No one is contesting what actually constitues FTF...

[+mountainman38]

I generally don't wait to log FTF's but if you're in to the FTF business AT ALL, you take this risk everytime you get in your car. And while it is irritating, you (the collective you) have no right to be angry about unlogged FTF's.

 

Yes, we do.

 

Everyone plays the game the way they have fun. Your way is not mine, so don't tell me what I have a right to do.

 

You can quote the exact rule all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that when someone rushes out to get the FTF then doesn't log it, they're being inconsiderate.

 

If they don't log just to mess with others, they're being jerks and need to find a new hobby. That right there is not funny.

 

Wait.. I don't practice this strategy but if I did, I'D BE INCONSIDERATE? Perhaps you're being overly sensitive. For the fragile in this thread, let me change my statement.. You don't have the right to NOT have your feelings hurt. My gawd.

 

Yup, you sure would. Nope, I'm not.