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What code is that?

finkenmann
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bflentje

+bflentje

Posted
Posted
Have you asked the cache owner for a hint? It has long been considered by many to be bad form to discuss puzzle cache puzzles in these forums.

 

I didn't see a specific puzzle cache mentioned. Using the forums as a resource towards finding a solution works for me.

 

There are a couple different variations of the same code. The Pig Pen and Mason cypher are nearly the same but different enough to throw off your solution.

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NYPaddleCacher

+NYPaddleCacher

Posted
Posted

Have you asked the cache owner for a hint? It has long been considered by many to be bad form to discuss puzzle cache puzzles in these forums.

 

Since the proverbial pig is out of the bag, and the "bad form" message has been posted I'm just curious to know what others consider an acceptable level of discussion might be related to puzzle cache puzzles.

 

First, I agree that asking the cache owner for a hint should be the first course of action. Generally those that come onto the forums and ask for help on a puzzle aren't aware of the geocaching faux pax that they're committing. However in almost every case there are those that will write "it's generally considered bad form to ask for help on a puzzle cache in the forums" and one or more responses when do provide help if not outright solutions.

 

I *do* believe it should be up to the CO as to how much additional assistance they want to provide to those that want it, and that by providing hints in the forums we may be going against the intent of the CO to create something that is difficult to solve (no caches are meant to be found diatribes please). On the other hand, given the extent that some will go to systematically ignore all puzzle, and the fact that most of those coming to the forums for help might be first time forum users, I wonder how helpful it is to essentially answer "don't come to to the forums asking for that kind of help".

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more discussions about puzzle cache puzzles as long as it's general puzzle solving advice like the response that niraD often gives or pointers to the Puzzle Solving 101 series. In fact, I wouldn't even object to a heavily moderated forum on Unknown Caches. Building up an arsenal of puzzle solving tools and expertise takes some time but becomes very useful when attempting to some of the more difficult puzzles. Discussing general puzzle solving approaches might even promote some interest in a cache category that gets more than its share of abuse.

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NYPaddleCacher

+NYPaddleCacher

Posted
Posted (edited)

What I get a kick out of is that this is amost the only time you will hear the phrase "bad form" around here, as if that were the officially sanctified way to word it. I wonder who said it first?

 

I'm not sure but I think that the full phrase used was "bad form, no biscuit".

Edited by NYPaddleCacher
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knowschad

knowschad

Posted
Posted

What I get a kick out of is that this is amost the only time you will hear the phrase "bad form" around here, as if that were the officially sanctified way to word it. I wonder who said it first?

 

I'm not sure but I think that full phrase was "bad form, no biscuit".

Upper-class British accent?
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StarBrand

+StarBrand

Posted
Posted

Have you asked the cache owner for a hint? It has long been considered by many to be bad form to discuss puzzle cache puzzles in these forums.

 

Since the proverbial pig is out of the bag, and the "bad form" message has been posted I'm just curious to know what others consider an acceptable level of discussion might be related to puzzle cache puzzles.

 

First, I agree that asking the cache owner for a hint should be the first course of action. Generally those that come onto the forums and ask for help on a puzzle aren't aware of the geocaching faux pax that they're committing. However in almost every case there are those that will write "it's generally considered bad form to ask for help on a puzzle cache in the forums" and one or more responses when do provide help if not outright solutions.

 

I *do* believe it should be up to the CO as to how much additional assistance they want to provide to those that want it, and that by providing hints in the forums we may be going against the intent of the CO to create something that is difficult to solve (no caches are meant to be found diatribes please). On the other hand, given the extent that some will go to systematically ignore all puzzle, and the fact that most of those coming to the forums for help might be first time forum users, I wonder how helpful it is to essentially answer "don't come to to the forums asking for that kind of help".

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more discussions about puzzle cache puzzles as long as it's general puzzle solving advice like the response that niraD often gives or pointers to the Puzzle Solving 101 series. In fact, I wouldn't even object to a heavily moderated forum on Unknown Caches. Building up an arsenal of puzzle solving tools and expertise takes some time but becomes very useful when attempting to some of the more difficult puzzles. Discussing general puzzle solving approaches might even promote some interest in a cache category that gets more than its share of abuse.

 

Its a hard thing to define. (How much help is too much?) But generally speaking - I know it when I see it.

 

For example - flat out telling somebody exactly what code or cipher or key is needed to solve it. That's too much.

Sending that same user to a resource that teaches about various puzzles and steps needed to solve them is ok.

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NYPaddleCacher

+NYPaddleCacher

Posted
Posted
The heck with it. Let's start solving all puzzles in the forums.

 

Anyone know how to solve this one? How about this one?

Haven't got a clue!!

 

(actually, feel free to discuss the first one here)

 

Feel free to discuss the second here as well. In fact, I'll be happy to provide a bit fat hint or even a solution for anyone that asks (but will only respond via PM).

 

That first one looks like a lot of fun though. My first thought was that it had something to do with whether or not each statement was true or false. Turn the T and Fs into a binary code, convert it to a decimal number and you you could get an answer for each of the coordinates. Granted, I only spent about 15 seconds looking at it so I may be way off base but it looks like the kind of puzzle I like to solve.

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NYPaddleCacher

+NYPaddleCacher

Posted
Posted

Have you asked the cache owner for a hint? It has long been considered by many to be bad form to discuss puzzle cache puzzles in these forums.

 

Since the proverbial pig is out of the bag, and the "bad form" message has been posted I'm just curious to know what others consider an acceptable level of discussion might be related to puzzle cache puzzles....

 

Its a hard thing to define. (How much help is too much?) But generally speaking - I know it when I see it.

 

For example - flat out telling somebody exactly what code or cipher or key is needed to solve it. That's too much.

Sending that same user to a resource that teaches about various puzzles and steps needed to solve them is ok.

 

Here is what I was going to write before the answer was provided.

 

"That kind of code is also more commonly called a cipher, which is this case in made of symbols, rather than a bunch of letters"

 

If one googled "symbol cipher" the answer would be revealed.

 

Is that too much?

 

There was another one mentioned here recently that used the same type of cipher that included a photo of one of the characters from Charlie Brown on the cache description. I thought that was a clever clue.

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StarBrand

+StarBrand

Posted
Posted
"That kind of code is also more commonly called a cipher, which is this case in made of symbols, rather than a bunch of letters"
I would have no problem with that kind of hint.

 

If one googled "symbol cipher" the answer would be revealed.

Adding that phrase pushes it over the top.

 

 

 

'just me........

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GeoGeeBee

+GeoGeeBee

Posted
Posted

So is saying "That looks like a pigpen cipher" really giving away too much information?

 

How about posting a link to a web page with a bunch of cipher information?

 

Is there really a big difference between Googling for cipher tools, and asking the forum for them? Is there a big difference between asking the forum, and asking a friend? How about asking a librarian? Or your math teacher who happens to be interested in cryptography?

 

IMHO, the forum is just one more research tool. Cache owners get to set up the puzzles. They don't get to decide which tools are acceptable for solving them.

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TheAlabamaRambler

+TheAlabamaRambler

Posted
Posted

So is saying "That looks like a pigpen cipher" really giving away too much information?

 

How about posting a link to a web page with a bunch of cipher information?

 

Is there really a big difference between Googling for cipher tools, and asking the forum for them? Is there a big difference between asking the forum, and asking a friend? How about asking a librarian? Or your math teacher who happens to be interested in cryptography?

 

IMHO, the forum is just one more research tool. Cache owners get to set up the puzzles. They don't get to decide which tools are acceptable for solving them.

+1

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skraeling

+skraeling

Posted
Posted

The heck with it. Let's start solving all puzzles in the forums.

 

Anyone know how to solve this one? How about this one?

 

Congratulations!

 

You entered: N 42° 27.xxx W 076° 28.xxx

 

Well, the 2nd one was quick and easy. Maybe I will go back and look at the first one. :ph34r:

 

Note - the numbers in the above Congratulations are already given on the cache page... so nothing spoiled.

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NYPaddleCacher

+NYPaddleCacher

Posted
Posted

The heck with it. Let's start solving all puzzles in the forums.

 

Anyone know how to solve this one? How about this one?

 

Second one is dead easy... too bad I'm not in the area to make the find.

 

I actually adopted that one along with a few others from a local geocacher that moved out of the area a few years ago. It's supposed to be easy and the puzzle is used mostly that bring together a theme. The cache is hidden near one of the three telescopes operated by Cornell and I have another cache hidden near one of the others. I'd love to hide a cache near the third. It's the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico.

 

arecibo.jpg

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NYPaddleCacher

+NYPaddleCacher

Posted
Posted
"That kind of code is also more commonly called a cipher, which is this case in made of symbols, rather than a bunch of letters"
I would have no problem with that kind of hint.

 

If one googled "symbol cipher" the answer would be revealed.

Adding that phrase pushes it over the top.

 

 

 

'just me........

 

I actually wouldn't have posted that second phrase but only did here to explain how the hint could be used to give the OP a nudge on where to direct their research.

 

I somewhat agree with those that expressed the sentiment that the forums are just another research tool, with a caveat.

 

A long time ago I used to participate in a usenet forum that frequently had people coming on asking us to respond to a survey, or answer some obscure questions. Eventually one of the regulars posted the lyrics of a song, based on a song called "Smells like Teen Spirit" and called it "Smells Like Term Paper". I also participated in a few programming language forums (I once had a followup from Dennis Ritchie) and it that group also had lots of questions like "I'm trying to write a program that plays the game called Tower of Hanoi...can someone tell me how to do it?" For those that don't get the reference, solving the tower of hanoi was one of the most common programming assignments in first year programming classes.

 

I see these examples as similar to using the forums for help in solving puzzles. It's one thing to the internet, and the forums for "research" but another to come here and expect to get a specific solution. There are a lot of puzzle caches which are pretty much all about doing a little research on the internet to learn how to solve it but I don't think that most COs expect that the approach to solving them would be to just ask someone for the answer (whether it's via the internet or a PAF network). Most programming language instructors wouldn't care if their students used the internet to get a basic understanding of an algorithm but if they find out that a student did a cut-n-paste of some code from a web site the student is probably going to fail the assignment.

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DragonflyTotem

+DragonflyTotem

Posted
Posted

Have you asked the cache owner for a hint? It has long been considered by many to be bad form to discuss puzzle cache puzzles in these forums.

 

Since the proverbial pig is out of the bag, and the "bad form" message has been posted I'm just curious to know what others consider an acceptable level of discussion might be related to puzzle cache puzzles.

 

First, I agree that asking the cache owner for a hint should be the first course of action. Generally those that come onto the forums and ask for help on a puzzle aren't aware of the geocaching faux pax that they're committing. However in almost every case there are those that will write "it's generally considered bad form to ask for help on a puzzle cache in the forums" and one or more responses when do provide help if not outright solutions.

 

I *do* believe it should be up to the CO as to how much additional assistance they want to provide to those that want it, and that by providing hints in the forums we may be going against the intent of the CO to create something that is difficult to solve (no caches are meant to be found diatribes please). On the other hand, given the extent that some will go to systematically ignore all puzzle, and the fact that most of those coming to the forums for help might be first time forum users, I wonder how helpful it is to essentially answer "don't come to to the forums asking for that kind of help".

 

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more discussions about puzzle cache puzzles as long as it's general puzzle solving advice like the response that niraD often gives or pointers to the Puzzle Solving 101 series. In fact, I wouldn't even object to a heavily moderated forum on Unknown Caches. Building up an arsenal of puzzle solving tools and expertise takes some time but becomes very useful when attempting to some of the more difficult puzzles. Discussing general puzzle solving approaches might even promote some interest in a cache category that gets more than its share of abuse.

 

No disagreement with what you say, however, one consideration is that some cache owners simply never respond to any emails sent to them at all...even if their cache listing encourages contacting for a hint.

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BBWolf+3Pigs

+BBWolf+3Pigs

Posted
Posted

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more discussions about puzzle cache puzzles as long as it's general puzzle solving advice like the response that niraD often gives or pointers to the Puzzle Solving 101 series. In fact, I wouldn't even object to a heavily moderated forum on Unknown Caches. Building up an arsenal of puzzle solving tools and expertise takes some time but becomes very useful when attempting to some of the more difficult puzzles. Discussing general puzzle solving approaches might even promote some interest in a cache category that gets more than its share of abuse.

 

I am actually considering hosting a Puzzle Solving 101 type event. I am thinking it would be pretty "free flow" with a lot of open discussions. I would use some of my own puzzles as talking points (since I won't mind helping people out on my own caches). I would explicitly state it will not be a "Tell me how to solve this puzzle" event. My working topic list:

 

- GIYF

- Ciphers and codes

-- "Disquised" ciphers

- Re-read the description

-- There's gotta be a clue in there somewhere!

- HTML tricks

- Hints

- Solution strategies

- Contact the Cache Owner

-- We're willing to help, honest!

- Real world examples

- Tips for Puzzle Owners

- Your questions

 

Anyone have any other items I should cover?

 

(And I was half thinking of making the event a simple puzzle itself! But maybe giving out clues as we got closer to the event date, and then finally posting the solution a couple of days before, with a description of how the puzzle worked)

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NYPaddleCacher

+NYPaddleCacher

Posted
Posted

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more discussions about puzzle cache puzzles as long as it's general puzzle solving advice like the response that niraD often gives or pointers to the Puzzle Solving 101 series. In fact, I wouldn't even object to a heavily moderated forum on Unknown Caches. Building up an arsenal of puzzle solving tools and expertise takes some time but becomes very useful when attempting to some of the more difficult puzzles. Discussing general puzzle solving approaches might even promote some interest in a cache category that gets more than its share of abuse.

 

I am actually considering hosting a Puzzle Solving 101 type event. I am thinking it would be pretty "free flow" with a lot of open discussions. I would use some of my own puzzles as talking points (since I won't mind helping people out on my own caches). I would explicitly state it will not be a "Tell me how to solve this puzzle" event. My working topic list:

 

- GIYF

- Ciphers and codes

-- "Disquised" ciphers

- Re-read the description

-- There's gotta be a clue in there somewhere!

- HTML tricks

- Hints

- Solution strategies

- Contact the Cache Owner

-- We're willing to help, honest!

- Real world examples

- Tips for Puzzle Owners

- Your questions

 

Anyone have any other items I should cover?

 

(And I was half thinking of making the event a simple puzzle itself! But maybe giving out clues as we got closer to the event date, and then finally posting the solution a couple of days before, with a description of how the puzzle worked)

 

- GIYF

Can anyone tell me what kind of code this is? :ph34r:

 

That's a pretty good list. You might considering adding something like "Research Strategies" and talk about how the use of search engines, pointers to a some good websites on ciphers (though you might not want to include a link to the Sudoku solver), and a list of books. For example, I got some pretty good mileage out of Codes, Ciphers, Secrets and Cryptic Communication by Fred Wrixon.

 

I'm not sure how you would discuss it, but it's probably a good idea to talk a bit about "red herrings".

 

I still can't help but wonder if there might be enough interest in this topic to warrant the created of a separate forum, especially considering the amount of traffic some of the forums in the topics in the GPS Related Topics get. There are four different topics under the Wherigo section and there are certainly a *lot* more unknown caches out there than Wherigo caches. I would probably even volunteer to be a moderator if s Puzzle/Unknown forum topic was created.

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addisonbr

+addisonbr

Posted
Posted

I am actually considering hosting a Puzzle Solving 101 type event. I am thinking it would be pretty "free flow" with a lot of open discussions. I would use some of my own puzzles as talking points (since I won't mind helping people out on my own caches). I would explicitly state it will not be a "Tell me how to solve this puzzle" event. My working topic list:

If you do this, it would be great if you could post a link to the event back into this thread. I'd be interested in following it from afar.

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BBWolf+3Pigs

+BBWolf+3Pigs

Posted
Posted

That's a pretty good list. You might considering adding something like "Research Strategies" and talk about how the use of search engines, pointers to a some good websites on ciphers (though you might not want to include a link to the Sudoku solver), and a list of books. For example, I got some pretty good mileage out of Codes, Ciphers, Secrets and Cryptic Communication by Fred Wrixon.

I've started putting together a powerpoint package, and I do mention the search engines, and things to cue on when doing a search (title of the cache, unusual words or phrases in the listing, etc.)

 

I'm not sure how you would discuss it, but it's probably a good idea to talk a bit about "red herrings".

 

Funny you should mention A Red Herring! I won't mention where the red herring is. But it is funny to hear from folks who don't know what a "red herring" is!

 

Perhaps when I have my presentation material together, I can post it here for a group review?

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mchaos

+mchaos

Posted
Posted

Have you asked the cache owner for a hint? It has long been considered by many to be bad form to discuss puzzle cache puzzles in these forums.

 

Can some one help me figure this out, "kshkfjnhwekmfnwklefjkwjdnfwdnfkjbwfjwnmerknwrkjlgnewrg"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:ph34r: Just kidding

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wimseyguy

+wimseyguy

Posted
Posted

 

I actually adopted that one along with a few others from a local geocacher that moved out of the area a few years ago. It's supposed to be easy and the puzzle is used mostly that bring together a theme. The cache is hidden near one of the three telescopes operated by Cornell and I have another cache hidden near one of the others. I'd love to hide a cache near the third. It's the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico.

 

<image snip>

That place is way cool. We toured it when we were visiting friends who lived on the west coast of Peurto Rico a few years back. After seeing the dish featured in Contact and 007 movies I just had to see it in person. A very worthwhile detour. Too bad I was there before I was caching.

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BulldogBlitz

+BulldogBlitz

Posted
Posted

Can some one help me figure this out, "kshkfjnhwekmfnwklefjkwjdnfwdnfkjbwfjwnmerknwrkjlgnewrg"

 

we have someone nearby that would do something like that...

 

or random numbers thrown into a paragraph form. they mean nothing, and when it is explained, it still means nothing. it is sort of like an ALR... here, solve this puzzle - you won't need it to find the cache, but here, solve it anyway. :ph34r:

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NYPaddleCacher

+NYPaddleCacher

Posted
Posted

That's a pretty good list. You might considering adding something like "Research Strategies" and talk about how the use of search engines, pointers to a some good websites on ciphers (though you might not want to include a link to the Sudoku solver), and a list of books. For example, I got some pretty good mileage out of Codes, Ciphers, Secrets and Cryptic Communication by Fred Wrixon.

I've started putting together a powerpoint package, and I do mention the search engines, and things to cue on when doing a search (title of the cache, unusual words or phrases in the listing, etc.)

 

I'm not sure how you would discuss it, but it's probably a good idea to talk a bit about "red herrings".

 

Funny you should mention A Red Herring! I won't mention where the red herring is. But it is funny to hear from folks who don't know what a "red herring" is!

 

Perhaps when I have my presentation material together, I can post it here for a group review?

 

I solved a five star puzzle once that was loaded with red herrings. It was based upon a book and many of the red herrings were very elaborate and although they were no help in obtaining the coordinates for the actual cache, they were part of the theme of the puzzle and helped tie the whole story together. In a couple of cases, what I thought was a red herring was actually an alternative path to solving a piece of the puzzle.

 

Regarding search strategies. One of our local puzzle creators is notorious for including seemingly irrelevant words as part of the description. If you used the right synonym, and did a search on that term it would often reveal a site or two that the was the basis for the theme of the puzzle. Sometimes a thesaurus can be a good research tool.

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BBWolf+3Pigs

+BBWolf+3Pigs

Posted
Posted

Regarding search strategies. One of our local puzzle creators is notorious for including seemingly irrelevant words as part of the description. If you used the right synonym, and did a search on that term it would often reveal a site or two that the was the basis for the theme of the puzzle. Sometimes a thesaurus can be a good research tool.

 

I always like to have the cache title or some reference in the description be the clue. I will sometimes spend hours with the cache description, making everything just right.

 

People have come to realize that if I misspell something, or have some weirdly composed sentence, it usually is not an accident, and is a clue.

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