Driving where you shouldn't

[Andronicus]

I recently had a long log deleted with full explination and actions because they didnt like the fact that i drove to within .1 mile of the cache, and didnt want to encourage others to do this.

 

here is my new log to reclame my find count: ....

 

Well, driving were you shouln't is a big issue, and probably deserves a thread all to itself.

 

I have a mini power trail I am building and some people (well respected local cachers) have been bragging about driving around the locked gate. I haven't deleted the logs, but I did add to the cache listing that if this behavior continues I will have to archive the caches. I am all for driving off road if allowed. It is fun, and can save huge amounts of time, but when it is obvious that you are not allowed, and you still do it, well that will just give geocaching a bad name, and may well end up in heart ache for us all.

 

***I am not accusing daveindeal of driving where he shouldn't, but his comment made it appear that he may have, and that got me thinking.

[+DragonsWest]

I'm curious if any finds on 5 terrain caches I make, with the assistance of a personal Zeppelin, would stand.

[Andronicus]

I'm curious if any finds on 5 terrain caches I make, with the assistance of a personal Zeppelin, would stand.

I guess that depends on if Zeppelins are permited in the area...

[+DragonsWest]

I'm curious if any finds on 5 terrain caches I make, with the assistance of a personal Zeppelin, would stand.

I guess that depends on if Zeppelins are permited in the area...

 

I've yet to see a sign saying - No Zeppelins Allowed

[Andronicus]

I'm curious if any finds on 5 terrain caches I make, with the assistance of a personal Zeppelin, would stand.

I guess that depends on if Zeppelins are permited in the area...

 

I've yet to see a sign saying - No Zeppelins Allowed

I guess there are no fly zones. Not sure it that applies to Zeppelins or not? Maybe that depends on how high you fly them..

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I'm rather well-known in my area for making difficult caches into drive-ups if I can.

 

That said every situation is different... it's okay in some places and not in others.

 

Hopefully geocachers are capable of determining the difference.

 

This argument that every infraction of some rule or law 'is going to give geocaching a black eye' is hyperbole.

[+RIclimber]

It's people like this I wish we could ban.

http://www.timesreporter.com/local_news/x8...cost-geocachers

[Andronicus]

I'm rather well-known in my area for making difficult caches into drive-ups if I can.

 

That said every situation is different... it's okay in some places and not in others.

 

Hopefully geocachers are capable of determining the difference.

 

This argument that every infraction of some rule or law 'is going to give geocaching a black eye' is hyperbole.

It may be hyperbole, but many land managers are passionate about keeping off roaders where they belong. More than most topics, I think off-roading is the biggest potential for a black eye.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I'm rather well-known in my area for making difficult caches into drive-ups if I can.

 

That said every situation is different... it's okay in some places and not in others.

 

Hopefully geocachers are capable of determining the difference.

 

This argument that every infraction of some rule or law 'is going to give geocaching a black eye' is hyperbole.

It may be hyperbole, but many land managers are passionate about keeping off roaders where they belong. More than most topics, I think off-roading is the biggest potential for a black eye.

If you ignore the part where I said:

 

That said every situation is different... it's okay in some places and not in others.

 

Hopefully geocachers are capable of determining the difference.

[+LadeBear68]

And than there was the time in Mexico, didn't you have help from border patrol?

Edited May 26, 2010 by LadeBear68

[+lavender_rabbit]

It's people like this I wish we could ban.

http://www.timesreporter.com/local_news/x8...cost-geocachers

 

At least the reporter who Googled geocaching didn't completely blunder the description and quoted positive aspects of the game.

[Clan Riffster]

I've yet to see a sign saying - No Zeppelins Allowed

I did see this sign, in a very dense forest.

[+ADTCacheur]

It's people like this I wish we could ban.

http://www.timesreporter.com/local_news/x8...cost-geocachers

We've got to teach these new geocachers that not every cache is a park-and-grab...

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

It's people like this I wish we could ban.

http://www.timesreporter.com/local_news/x8...cost-geocachers

We've got to teach these new geocachers that not every cache is a park-and-grab...

If I remember correctly, the driver was charged criminally, AND had an exorbitant tow bill plus had to pay for damage caused by his driving and the tow truck. The scene is a sportsfield -- cannot remember, soccer, football, baseball.

 

Stupid is as stupid does.

 

EDIT...and yes, he and his buddies were geocaching.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Gitchee-Gummee

[AZcachemeister]

I've yet to see a sign saying - No Zeppelins Allowed

I did see this sign, in a very dense forest.

 

Which also means no 'personal property' can be left for over thirty days (or something like that), therefore, no cache to try and drive to (or fly your personal Zeppelin to) in the first place.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

And than there was the time in Mexico, didn't you have help from border patrol?

You mean when the Border Patrol and National Park Rangers had to tow us out of the sand after we drove past the "Do Not Drive Past This Point" sign? I didn't know that meant me!

 

And, there was a cache there, what can I say?

 

Always following the rules doesn't lead to having friends who can share great memories like "Remember that time in Mexico..."?

Edited May 26, 2010 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+Chokecherry]

I had an experience last weekend where I was seeking a cache that was allegedly a park and grab and rated with a 1 terrain. So we followed the road on the map and it turned into a dirt road which got narrower and narrower until it was evident we were suddenly driving a little car down an ATV trail. At which point we turned around and took the DNF. Even at that point in the trip we were still half a mile away.

 

Reassessing after I got home comparing various maps I found either of the two "actual" roads near the cache that were accessible by car were over a mile away and the trip to the cache was over some gnarly terrain. Totally bummed me out because my mom was really looking forward to that cache that day and I had to tell her someone screwed up the terrain rating and I screwed up thinking park and grab meant park a car not an off roading vehicle.

 

That being said a TON of local caches are accessible by ATV and for many of them if one owns an ATV it makes getting them a lot easier. As long as it's allowed in the area I wouldn't delete a log because someone used their creative caching to find a cache that way.

[+LadeBear68]

. Edited May 26, 2010 by LadeBear68

[+DENelson83]

It's people like this I wish we could ban.

http://www.timesreporter.com/local_news/x8...cost-geocachers

That's called vandalism, and if it's not against the rules of geocaching, it's certainly against common sense (and the law).

[+StarBrand]

I had a cache (now archived) that requested no off road travel beyond the rather obvious parking area. Not only were there hazards out in the marshy area but the land manager didn't want vehicles out in the middle of it. I clearly noted the hazards and request in the description.

 

I'd venture to guess about 1/4 of finders noted driving up as close to the cache as they could in thier logs. Several of those noted getting stuck briefly or running over some of the wire and debris buried in the marsh.

 

Some folks just want to believe that thier vehicle (or driving skills) is just a tad bit tougher than everybody else's.

[Andronicus]

Driving where you should:

 

Driving where you shouldn't:

Edited May 26, 2010 by Andronicus

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I had a cache (now archived) that requested no off road travel beyond the rather obvious parking area. Not only were there hazards out in the marshy area but the land manager didn't want vehicles out in the middle of it. I clearly noted the hazards and request in the description.

 

I'd venture to guess about 1/4 of finders noted driving up as close to the cache as they could in thier logs. Several of those noted getting stuck briefly or running over some of the wire and debris buried in the marsh.

 

Some folks just want to believe that thier vehicle (or driving skills) is just a tad bit tougher than everybody else's.

That's the problem with common sense... it isn't common! Laws and guidelines are not always evenly enforced, and that often leaves it to the cacher to determine what is and is not acceptable in any given circumstance. That is why this site has Guidelines instead of Rules, so that the cacher and the Reviewer have some discretion and flexibility. Sometimes even posted laws are flexible.

 

The thing about the oft-posted and soundly criticized pic of the guy stuck in the mud when he attempted to drive around a ball field fence is that despite the long-running thread we never got his side of the story. Was there any indication that this was a prohibited driving area? The grass is cut so obviously landscape maintenance vehicles drive there. Why did he think it was okay to drive there? We don't know if he didn't care or if he really thought it was okay.

 

Obviously driving onto soft ground where you would leave tracks is a dumb move in any area like this, even if it was allowed under normal conditions.

 

The reason I think that he may have thought that driving there is okay is that I had a cache which was accessible exactly like this for years. Irondale Park Cache was in a creek bed behind the Irondale Baseball Park and one of the ways that you could get to it was to drive around the outfield fence just like is shown in that picture. There were no signs indicating that you could not, it was the way city trucks accessed the lights and scoreboards for maintenance, and that is the route I drove the city park Superintendent to look at the cache site and get his permission. Most folks parked in the parking lot which was 100' from the cache, but I saw several cachers who drove around the fence. I did for maintenance trips and once to take a reporter who was writing a story on geocaching. The Irondale Chief of Police and the Parks Superintendent are friends of mine and neither had a problem with it, though if pressed I am sure that either would say that the public driving back there is not allowed. I looked at it as a 'don't ask, don't tell' situation. They knew about it but were never asked directly. As I said, I drove the Superintendent back there but if I had asked him "Can I drive back there" he would likely have had to say no.

 

I also feel sure that if someone had driven back there when it was muddy and tore the place up like the guy in the picture that he would have been charged in the same way. Call it a 'stupid tax'.

 

That cache also had another interesting issue; overgrown by brush was a No Trespassing sign about six feet before you reached the cache. I never saw it until a cacher pointed it out in a log about six months after I hid the cache. The cache was along a trail that locals had made over the years using it as a shortcut from the ball field to a residential community behind the park. The sign was old, rusted and almost completely hidden in vines and brush, so when it was pointed out to me in a cache log I talked to the Superintendent who told me that the sign had been placed 20 years ago to avoid liability if someone got hurt crossing the creek, that he knew kids used the trail daily, and that geocachers should ignore the sign. So we did. He never had the brush cleared off of it and no cacher ever mentioned it again.

 

That cache was interesting in another way as well. Eventually a kid found it and word got out amongst his friends, some of whom signed the log. One day it went missing. After a couple of DNFs I took a new container to replace it and it was back... all contents inside with a note from a Mom that said "My son found this and didn't know that he wasn't to take it." A few weeks later a local reporter wanted to do a story on geocaching so I took him and a photographer to that cache, among others. It was gone. Oops. That was embarrassing. I went back the next day to replace it and there it was, properly re-hidden and all contents inside! A few weeks later it was gone again, so I archived it since obviously the local kids weren't going to leave it alone. Still, I thought it pretty interesting that they had twice put it back properly and with all contents!

Edited May 26, 2010 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+sbell111]

Driving where you should:

That wasn't much of a hill after all, was it?

Edited May 26, 2010 by sbell111

[+StarBrand]

Thanks sbell - you save me the trouble of rotating the picture to get the trees growing straight!!

[+BulldogBlitz]

 

That's the problem with common sense... it isn't common! Laws and guidelines are not always evenly enforced, and that often leaves it to the cacher to determine what is and is not acceptable in any given circumstance. That is why this site has Guidelines instead of Rules, so that the cacher and the Reviewer have some discretion and flexibility. Sometimes even posted laws are flexible.

 

just because you can cache this way:

 

 

doesn't mean you should. the laws aren't flexible. the ones enforcing the law are (sometimes).

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

...the laws aren't flexible. the ones enforcing the law are (sometimes).

Exactly! And therein lies the challenge for cachers - to know if, when and how far the rules can be bent in the eyes of the enforcer.

 

'Obey the letter of the law in all things and in all circumstances' will rarely get you in trouble but frankly I have never met a person who can, much less will, do that...even if they say they do.

[+BulldogBlitz]

...the laws aren't flexible. the ones enforcing the law are (sometimes).

Exactly! And therein lies the challenge for cachers - to know if, when and how far the rules can be bent in the eyes of the enforcer.

 

'Obey the letter of the law in all things and in all circumstances' will rarely get you in trouble but frankly I have never met a person who can, much less will, do that...even if they say they do.

 

i don't know many people who say they "obey the letter of the law" and go off-roading in a prohibited area. if they are going to see where the law bends... it might be not updating their address on their driver's license in the given time period - that's pretty much invisible to everyone.... unlike the monster truck running through the playground in order to get that FTF.

 

it is pretty humorous to read the logs of some of these caches and see the FTF... or the second place folks explain how fast they drove.... over curbs... right up to the cache... just to get to say they were first - and passed the next cacher on the way to the next. i wonder if they hit someone on the way to the cache... if they'd put that in the log too.

[+DragonsWest]

Thanks sbell - you save me the trouble of rotating the picture to get the trees growing straight!!

 

Sitting in a pub a few years ago I was watching one of these shows on what was formerly known as Outdoor Life Network (it's called something else now, hype, extreme, wossname) There was a home video of a big ol' hopped up Suburban with a ratted out motor trying to go up what looked like a 25% grade - it made it about half way and the rear axle snapped. There was a slight pause then it started rolling back down hill, then tumbled and shed windows, doors, wheels, etc. until at the bottom of the climb about all that came to rest was what looked like the carcass of a stripped vehicle.

 

I can see a 4x4 for going over rough terrain, but I could never understand taking a vehicle with a high center of gravity up a steep grade.

 

Heck, I had to remove the 32 sprocket from my mountain bike cassette because whenever I accidently shifted into it on steep climbs I would flip!

[Andronicus]

Driving where you should:

That wasn't much of a hill after all, was it?

Ok, I admitn that I tilted the camera when I took that pic.

 

The hill was actualy quite steep, but when you take a pic from the side, it just doesn't seem nearly as sevear. So to make up for it, I tilted the camera. It looks a lot cooler that way, and most people don't notice.

[+ADTCacheur]

Ok, I admitn that I tilted the camera when I took that pic.

 

The hill was actualy quite steep, but when you take a pic from the side, it just doesn't seem nearly as sevear. So to make up for it, I tilted the camera. It looks a lot cooler that way, and most people don't notice.

shame, shame, shame

[+DragonsWest]

 

Here's a picture of a 4x4 in Australia - note person trying to keep it from falling off the earth into space.

[+roziecakes]

Best. Post. Ever.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

I was driving in the back country roads of an old midwest city, trying to find a pioneer cemetery that hosted a geocache. I was watching my GPS and saw a little sign that pointed towards the cemetery, so I turned. In the 2 seconds that it took me to realize that was a bad idea, I was already stuck. You might be able to spot my youngest child in the backseat.

 

 

At least in Spring and Summer, there is an actual road under all that white stuff.

 

Here's a picture of the County Sheriff Deputy and the tow truck that helped me out. Because it was Christmas Eve, my insurance (Progressive) couldn't get any towing company in their network to respond. This towing company (who was in town) not only responded when the Deputy called, they billed my insurance only, not collecting a dollar from me.

 

 

Also to note that people who did drive down that deserted road on that cold day did stop to try to help me out but just weren't successful because their cars wouldn't handle a tow or they couldn't push my car out.

 

Thank heavens the world is full of good people when Geocachers drive where they shouldn't!

 

PS: I returned in the Spring to find the cache. I also waymarked the heck out of that old cemetery, and a grave within that cemetery was the inspiration for this Waymarking category.

[daveindeal]

as the offender in question........

 

The cache location i cant say as its a puzzle but the access i took was via a public road, half way along it turns to an unkept road, bumpy bumpy.........

 

following this road i got to within 0.1 mile of the caches location, after my log was deleted i looked into it further, and the part of the unkept road is public and the rest of the road/track was infact own by the farmer and used daily for a big salads factory nearby

 

However, there was no difference from the unkept part of the road, to the farm's part, also at no point did i pass any locked gates, signs or fences (one cattle grid tho) that deemed it as private.

 

The route followes between two fields, it is clearly marked with yellow 1 foot posts to indicate the area to drive and the field.

Edited May 26, 2010 by daveindeal