Birdseye

[+Unobtainium]

Am I missing something, but why pay for a service that I can get for free with this?

 

I have seen in another thread that the birdeye image is identical to google maps, which is available in the Mobile Atlas Creator.

[+Red90]

It is an easy way to get large amounts of aerial images on a Garmin GPS and they work along with the normal maps.

 

You could use the "custommaps" route as well, which is free, but they limit to only 100 1MP images making it not very usable. Birdseye does not have any limits AFAICT. Also the Birdseye images run much faster on the GPS. The $30/year cost is reasonable for providing the service.

[+Cache Liberation Front]

It is an easy way to get large amounts of aerial images on a Garmin GPS and they work along with the normal maps.

 

You could use the "custommaps" route as well, which is free, but they limit to only 100 1MP images making it not very usable. Birdseye does not have any limits AFAICT. Also the Birdseye images run much faster on the GPS. The $30/year cost is reasonable for providing the service.

 

I had really been dancing around the OP's question as well, and Red90 is right, that 100 map count limit for custom maps is really rather constraining, esp. is you're using Google Maps which fill that 100 map count up in a snap. I think Garmin intends it's Custom Map function for tiny little, maybe fun or historical maps, but nothing for the hiker or serious cacher.

 

It look like I'll be paying the $30 for Birdseye here in a second, too. But since this thread is a few days old...can anyone confirm or deny the NO limitations in using Birdseye maps (well, perhaps for the size of your SD card)?

 

Also, can the maps you install using Birdseye be saved/archived off your GPS and on your PC for use later, even after you maybe unsubscribe from the service? I can't recall the demo extension I tried, I think it was something like ./Garmin/Birdseye/Demo.JNX or something like that. Can we just save these files on our PC for later use?

 

Thanks.

 

[edit: added .jnx]

Edited April 16, 2010 by Cache Liberation Front

[+Triple Crown]

It is an easy way to get large amounts of aerial images on a Garmin GPS and they work along with the normal maps.

 

You could use the "custommaps" route as well, which is free, but they limit to only 100 1MP images making it not very usable. Birdseye does not have any limits AFAICT. Also the Birdseye images run much faster on the GPS. The $30/year cost is reasonable for providing the service.

 

I had really been dancing around the OP's question as well, and Red90 is right, that 100 map count limit for custom maps is really rather constraining, esp. is you're using Google Maps which fill that 100 map count up in a snap. I think Garmin intends it's Custom Map function for tiny little, maybe fun or historical maps, but nothing for the hiker or serious cacher.

 

It look like I'll be paying the $30 for Birdseye here in a second, too. But since this thread is a few days old...can anyone confirm or deny the NO limitations in using Birdseye maps (well, perhaps for the size of your SD card)?

 

Also, can the maps you install using Birdseye be saved/archived off your GPS and on your PC for use later, even after you maybe unsubscribe from the service? I can't recall the demo extension I tried, I think it was something like ./Garmin/Birdseye/Demo.knz or something like that. Can we just save these files on our PC for later use?

 

Thanks.

 

The subscription allows you to download all you want for a year. Whatever you download you keep forever. Yes, you can save them on your hard drive, they are .JNX files. You can build your own library and swap the files on your microSD card or internal memory as needed.

[+northernpenguin]

 

It look like I'll be paying the $30 for Birdseye here in a second, too. But since this thread is a few days old...can anyone confirm or deny the NO limitations in using Birdseye maps (well, perhaps for the size of your SD card)?

 

Well, I've got over 10,000 square kilometers loaded up on my Colorado right now, and I'm still downloading

[+Cache Liberation Front]

The subscription allows you to download all you want for a year. Whatever you download you keep forever. Yes, you can save them on your hard drive, they are .JNX files. You can build your own library and swap the files on your microSD card or internal memory as needed.

 

Thanks for the help, looks like it's time to subscribe.

[+Cache Liberation Front]

 

Well, I've got over 10,000 square kilometers loaded up on my Colorado right now, and I'm still downloading

 

Well then I suppose that makes YOU the man to ask which SDHC card you prefer?

[+Red90]

I doubt it matter. I'm running a 16 GB card and it works fine.

 

Each download is limited to 20000 images, but there does not seem to be any limits on the amount you can do or use.

[+northernpenguin]

 

Well, I've got over 10,000 square kilometers loaded up on my Colorado right now, and I'm still downloading

 

Well then I suppose that makes YOU the man to ask which SDHC card you prefer?

 

Non critical data, in a non highspeed device? I went with cheapest. $45 CDN for a Lexar 16GB works fine for me.

[+Walts Hunting]

Non critical data, in a non highspeed device?

 

That's a point many miss. I always wondered about people recommending the fast cards when I don't think the interface in the Oregon is of the same quality.

 

Sort of like hooking up cable internet to a 8088.

[JBRcbatv]

Are any of you guys seeing poor performance with BaseCamp? It grinds to a halt with me after designating a dozen or so pieces of imagery. This is the only way to acquire and transfer BirdsEye Imagery that I am aware of. I have called Garmin and they are working on the problem... I hope.

 

Others are seeing the same thing...

 

http://garminoregon.wikispaces.com/message...w/home/22683903

 

https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=7366

 

https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=7734

 

Anybody have workarounds other than transferring .jnx files to HD , cleaning of SD card and then downloading more? You eventually hit a wall with just having them loaded into BaseCamp. I guess the only thing to do now is to delete them from BaseCamp, but then if I want to see the images on my computer, I will have to download them again??? Anybody try saving off a .jnx file to the HD, deleting it from BaseCamp, and then try to reload the .jnx file back into BaseCamp?

[+Red90]

It is a slowish program, but I'm running it on my home desktop, which was purchased in 1997 as it works fine...

[+jerpete]

I'm finding Basecamp and the Garmin servers to be biggest problem, my connection is 4Mbps down and it still takes about 8 hours to download one 300mb image set. It then takes almost a 1/2 hour to transfer one 300mb to my sd card (in a reader, not in my CO). If I select more then two image sets Basecamp shuts down. My computer isn't slow, it's a P4 3ghz, w 2gb of RAM. Most everything runs quickly except for Basecamp.

[+Orienteering]

I'm finding Basecamp and the Garmin servers to be biggest problem, my connection is 4Mbps down and it still takes about 8 hours to download one 300mb image set. It then takes almost a 1/2 hour to transfer one 300mb to my sd card (in a reader, not in my CO). If I select more then two image sets Basecamp shuts down. My computer isn't slow, it's a P4 3ghz, w 2gb of RAM. Most everything runs quickly except for Basecamp.

BaseCamp is painfully slow. I downloaded 18 imageries (between 10 and 60 MB each) and everything came to a grinding halt. I needed to delete them (which was almost impossible becasue the UI didn't react any longer to mouse clicks) to be able to use BaseCamp again. So now I download only one imagery, save it to my Oregon and then delete it in BaseCamp. In the future I might make backups from my Oregon to the HD to keep them around -- although I wouldn't know how to use them on demand in BaseCamp. Where would I have to copy them to use them in BaseCamp?

[eaparks]

It is a slowish program, but I'm running it on my home desktop, which was purchased in 1997 as it works fine...

 

Hi Red90, How many Mbs of RAM are you using? I also am running an older desktop (only 512 Mb of RAM; Windows XP Pro) and I've seen where Garmin recommends at least 1 Gb of RAM for Birdseye. I also gave Garmin a call and they said I would not be able to run Birdseye. I question whether this is 100% correct and wondered if any other actual users are able to run Birdseye with 512 Mb of RAM. Thanks.

[+Red90]

P4-1.4 GHz. 1 GB RAM. XP Pro. I have not found Basecamp to be a RAM hog. IME, as long as you do not use up all the physical RAM there should be no RAM caused slowness in any program.

 

These guys with crashing, freezing problems have something else wrong. Hopefully the developers can figure out the common reason. It is best to comment WITH DETAILED FACTS on the Garmin forums. The actual programmers are there reading and responding. You need to see it from their viewpoint. They run it on the machines that the company provides and it works..... It is tough to troubleshoot a machine specific problem.

[eaparks]

P4-1.4 GHz. 1 GB RAM. XP Pro. I have not found Basecamp to be a RAM hog. IME, as long as you do not use up all the physical RAM there should be no RAM caused slowness in any program.

 

These guys with crashing, freezing problems have something else wrong. Hopefully the developers can figure out the common reason. It is best to comment WITH DETAILED FACTS on the Garmin forums. The actual programmers are there reading and responding. You need to see it from their viewpoint. They run it on the machines that the company provides and it works..... It is tough to troubleshoot a machine specific problem.

Thank you for the quick reply. I've held off downloading Base Camp due to my 512 Mb of RAM. Edited April 16, 2010 by eaparks

[hoyshnin]

P4-1.4 GHz. 1 GB RAM. XP Pro. I have not found Basecamp to be a RAM hog. IME, as long as you do not use up all the physical RAM there should be no RAM caused slowness in any program.

 

These guys with crashing, freezing problems have something else wrong. Hopefully the developers can figure out the common reason. It is best to comment WITH DETAILED FACTS on the Garmin forums. The actual programmers are there reading and responding. You need to see it from their viewpoint. They run it on the machines that the company provides and it works..... It is tough to troubleshoot a machine specific problem.

Thank you for the quick reply. I've held off downloading Base Camp due to my 512 Mb of RAM.

You should look into doubling or quadrupling your RAM, it's EXTREMELY cheap and easy to pop the ram out and pop the ram in (at least on a pc). You'd probably be looking at less than $10 to double your RAM, and not much more to quadruple it.

[+GeekBoy.from.Illinois]

...

Anybody have workarounds other than transferring .jnx files to HD , cleaning of SD card and then downloading more? You eventually hit a wall with just having them loaded into BaseCamp. I guess the only thing to do now is to delete them from BaseCamp, but then if I want to see the images on my computer, I will have to download them again??? Anybody try saving off a .jnx file to the HD, deleting it from BaseCamp, and then try to reload the .jnx file back into BaseCamp?

I have done this, well, essentially this. Since BirdsEye doesn't store the data as JNX files, but rather as the image tiles that make up the JNX file. On my Mac, I have made a backup of my BaaseCamp data directory (specifically the GcsOverlays and the "Database" data), and then moved the data out of the GcsOverlays folder. This didn't help as much as I had hoped it would, and I have since learned that the issue appears to be more with the "AllData.gdb" file in the database folder. I am currently sitting with my "AllData.gdb" file at about 68-69MB and BaseCamp is working fine for me. A few days ago, my "AllData.gdb" file was up to about 160MB and BaseCamp would crash any time I tried to do anything. My GcsOverlays folder is curently sitting at about 5.5GB of downloaded image tiles that I have downloaded since I started on April 2 (2 weeks ago). When I "deleted" the downloaded images from BaseCamp, it removed something from the "AllData.gdb" file, but it left the corresponding folders in my GcsOverlays alone.

 

I do not see the images that I have deleted when I look in BaseCamp, but I have not yet tried to re-download to see if it checks to see that they are already there or if it will just blindly download a second copy of them.

[+Venture Crew 210]

I don't know why my comp double posts. I'm sorry. Someone please delete this.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Venture Crew 210

[+Venture Crew 210]

I have read elsewhere about a program called mapsource. Will this do the same thing, does it work any better?

[+Walts Hunting]

Unfortunately Garmin chose to release Birdseye on BaseCamp. I for one don't understand it either but you are stuck with if for that use.

[+Cache Liberation Front]

I have read elsewhere about a program called mapsource. Will this do the same thing, does it work any better?

 

Birdseye does not work with MapSource, only Basecamp.

 

Has anyone been tracking any Garmin dev action and perhaps have any updates on the status of Birdseye/Basecamp? I sure would like to hear from the horse's mouth that they're working on this horrible (yet potentially wonderful) software.

[+Cache Liberation Front]

There's a new update to Basecamp, now, which appears to handle some of the loading/memory problems that occur with a few Birdseye maps downloaded. Nice.

[+cache4pat]

Am I missing something, but why pay for a service that I can get for free with this?

 

I have seen in another thread that the birdeye image is identical to google maps, which is available in the Mobile Atlas Creator.

 

I have tried using the FREE GoogleEarth based generated overlays and they are great for small areas.

 

But if you want anything for a reasonable day's geocaching, you will hit the 'size limits' of that process fast, and aligning subsections 'by hand' is a time consuming pain. For real field work with your GPS, the small annual fee for BirdsEye is a bargain and a huge pre-time saver ... unless you like spending hours at your PC before heading out.

 

And, if you want to overlay a high-res subsection on a lower-res general map enhancement; that is very easy with BirdsEye and BaseCamp.

 

I've been using BirdsEye for a few months and it is great ) My only hick-up was caused by my virus scan firewall randomly BLOCKing BaseCamp, which was easy to fix once I realized what was going on.

[+splashy]

Custom maps made with ' Mobile Atlas Creator' are very sharp and takes about 1 > 2 minutes to make, it's useless to zoom in to far so you can strick to bigger tiles = a bigger area.

Maps I've seen from birdseye where not that nice.

[+user13371]

Splashy, you're onto one of my favorite talking points

 

With so many easy, freely available sources of maps and imagery, it's gotta be hard for map bundles or subscription services like DeLorme and Garmin to be profitable. An advertising blurb on the box ("Great maps included! Downloads available!") might help sell the GPS, but I think by and large people are going to turn to other sources for maps than the GPS vendor.

 

So how does a GPS maker who historically derived a big chunk of revenue from maps retool their business model?

[+TotemLake]

Splashy, you're onto one of my favorite talking points

 

With so many easy, freely available sources of maps and imagery, it's gotta be hard for map bundles or subscription services like DeLorme and Garmin to be profitable. An advertising blurb on the box ("Great maps included! Downloads available!") might help sell the GPS, but I think by and large people are going to turn to other sources for maps than the GPS vendor.

 

So how does a GPS maker who historically derived a big chunk of revenue from maps retool their business model?

I don't think that's going to be an issue. There are those that want to roll their own and those that want to have it delivered without much effort. A little something for everyone to suit their own personal needs.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Splashy, you're onto one of my favorite talking points

 

With so many easy, freely available sources of maps and imagery, it's gotta be hard for map bundles or subscription services like DeLorme and Garmin to be profitable. An advertising blurb on the box ("Great maps included! Downloads available!") might help sell the GPS, but I think by and large people are going to turn to other sources for maps than the GPS vendor.

 

So how does a GPS maker who historically derived a big chunk of revenue from maps retool their business model?

I don't think that's going to be an issue. There are those that want to roll their own and those that want to have it delivered without much effort. A little something for everyone to suit their own personal needs.

10-4, I buy my songs for 99¢ each from Amazon.com.

 

Do you think that I'd make a one time karaoke machine purchase and then roll my own?

[+user13371]

I don't think that's going to be an issue. There are those that want to roll their own and those that want to have it delivered without much effort. A little something for everyone to suit their own personal needs.

I don't see it as a choice between "rolling your own" versus "(packaged product) delivered without too much effort." I see it as new products, different packaging and delivery methods, and expanded functionality beating the crop out of the traditional players on BOTH sides of that question.

 

Right now any PC or Mac or iPhone or Android user has more mapping choices -- both "roll your own" or "prepack" -- available more easily and economically than Garmin or DeLorme can provide. Speciality products might keep a small company afloat, but those will remain a relatively small niche compared to the mass market of folks just wanting driving directions or a tool for finding geocaches. And eventually the mass market will erode even those niches.

 

If you're tired of me overusing the ""evolve or die"" cliche, I can switch back to Danny DeVito's "buggy whip" speech from "Other Peoples' Money". And at the end of that story, the folks who wanted to save small, endangered "New England Wire and Cable" did find new product positioning for a happy ending.

 

I hope our friends at New England Maps and GPS have seen the movie and are taking those lessons to heart.

Edited July 10, 2010 by lee_rimar

[+splashy]

" 10-4, I buy my songs for 99¢ each from Amazon.com."

The only good thing here is for the end user we select only the songs we like.

 

This is EXACTLY the wrong thing to do, how much is the artist getting from the 99¢ ?

The time of paying to much to COMPANIES has ended and people like to have an escape from paying to much, therefore we make free maps together, we make free/shareware programs we have craigslist and ebay, we have free maps on cellphones, free apps on Iphones and so on.

[+RangerR47]

The free map creator is sweet for a small park or something along those lines. I have created 2 so far and one was in town and the other in the boonies, both maps would just barely cover what I wanted , and this is a small area, prolly not even a square mile. If you want anything more than this, you will have to get the $30 service which really isnt a bad price to get all the maps you want.

 

If they didnt have the limit on the free stuff I would not think twice, but like most have said, if you plan on hiking or venturing more than a few miles and still want decent zoom, the free stuff wont cut it.

[+dfx]

The free map creator is sweet for a small park or something along those lines. I have created 2 so far and one was in town and the other in the boonies, both maps would just barely cover what I wanted , and this is a small area, prolly not even a square mile. If you want anything more than this, you will have to get the $30 service which really isnt a bad price to get all the maps you want.

 

If they didnt have the limit on the free stuff I would not think twice, but like most have said, if you plan on hiking or venturing more than a few miles and still want decent zoom, the free stuff wont cut it.

i just tried that app myself and bumped into the same limitation. the readme says that the max tile size on the garmins is 1024x1024 pixels, and that you can have max 100 tiles per custom map. that doesn't give you a lot of area for a map.

 

do the birdseye maps not have the limitations? or is there any way to get around this?

 

PS: reading the older posts in the thread kinda answered that.

Edited July 12, 2010 by dfx

[+splashy]

As I said before, you don't need a big zoom, it will show a (few) sq yard of a path/trees/dessert,

this gives no reference an therefore it's useless.

 

See youtube

 

PDF

http://www.tritonforum.com/morel/A%20Guide...s%20Creator.pdf

[+TotemLake]

" 10-4, I buy my songs for 99¢ each from Amazon.com."

The only good thing here is for the end user we select only the songs we like.

 

This is EXACTLY the wrong thing to do, how much is the artist getting from the 99¢ ?

The time of paying to much to COMPANIES has ended and people like to have an escape from paying to much, therefore we make free maps together, we make free/shareware programs we have craigslist and ebay, we have free maps on cellphones, free apps on Iphones and so on.

While you may believe it is time to stop paying such prices, I just transferred almost 40GB of iTunes while rebuilding a friend's system. This is not atypical of users who enjoy the convenience of one stop shopping. There is room for both styles of gaining maps and imagery; be it by sweat equity or by cash. It doesn't have to be a one way or no way at all, nor will it be.

Edited July 12, 2010 by TotemLake

[+Team CowboyPapa]

" 10-4, I buy my songs for 99¢ each from Amazon.com."

The only good thing here is for the end user we select only the songs we like.

 

This is EXACTLY the wrong thing to do, how much is the artist getting from the 99¢ ?

The time of paying to much to COMPANIES has ended and people like to have an escape from paying to much, therefore we make free maps together, we make free/shareware programs we have craigslist and ebay, we have free maps on cellphones, free apps on Iphones and so on.

While you may believe it is time to stop paying such prices, I just transferred almost 40GB of iTunes while rebuilding a friend's system. This is not atypical of users who enjoy the convenience of one stop shopping. There is room for both styles of gaining maps and imagery; be it by sweat equity or by cash. It doesn't have to be a one way or no way at all, nor will it be.

Roger that, TL, and what the self-appointed critic of my music purchasing preferences was not aware of was my history of such.

To wit, when individual songs became available for 99¢ each, I went from buying no music at all, CDs or otherwise, to buying those songs.

Consequently, the money from my pocket to the artists' was a step function of infinite quantity. 10-4?

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Furthermore......

Edited July 13, 2010 by Team CowboyPapa

[+dfx]

ok, so who's actually using birdseye? on what devices? how's the performance, map redraw speeds and things like that? how usable is it really? is it worth the money?

[+kentwoodkrew]

ok, so who's actually using birdseye? on what devices? how's the performance, map redraw speeds and things like that? how usable is it really? is it worth the money?

 

Using birdseye with my oregon 450. Well worth the money. For a normal idiot it is a lot easier to get great maps from birdseye than MAC. Thanks to the mobile atlas creator people but birdseye works for me.

Edited July 14, 2010 by kentwoodkrew

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

My take is that it can be good for people in open landscapes (western US, and urban areas). For my primary use (eastern forests) it's just not that helpful at currently available resolutions.

[+kentwoodkrew]

My take is that it can be good for people in open landscapes (western US, and urban areas). For my primary use (eastern forests) it's just not that helpful at currently available resolutions.

Try it you might like it. I found it very useful wandering around some gamelands a few weeks back here in the eastern US. Around Falls Lake in North Carolina to be more precise. Not too huge clearings and the little used roads between them showed up fine. When the heat got too much my shortcut back was obvious. Well worth the money. You cannot get the good detail for any reasonable area from GAC.

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

I have a subscription and have tried it. I think we just have thicker tree cover up here in the mountains! ;-) Or maybe lower resolution imagery?

[yogazoo]

I find that it works well until you start to compile a larger library of images. Basecamp is the most sluggish and frustrating piece of software I can stand using and it takes a looong time to render the tiles you already have on your GPS in order to keep cutting out adjacent areas to download. Maybe it has something to to with USB 1 protocal on the Oregon 300's or maybe it's a bit of both but it would be nice if Garmin fixed Basecamp or change how they handle the image library in some way. Other than that I couldn't imagine not having aerials on my GPS for so many reasons.