# Puzzle Cache Distance

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I'm fairly new to geocaching so I don't know if there a rule for this or not.

Today I noticed a new cache fairly close to my house and I figured I could walk to it. It was a puzzle cache and I figured it out. I plugged the coordinates into google maps to get an idea of where it was and it turns out the location of the cache is over 13 miles away from the posted coordinates. I've figured out other puzzle caches and the actual location seems to be within a mile of it.

So are there any rules about the distance of the actual cache from the posted coordinates for a puzzle cache?

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So are there any rules about the distance of the actual cache from the posted coordinates for a puzzle cache?

According to the guidelines for Mystery caches: "Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 km) away from the true cache location."

That hasn't always been the case, so sometimes you come across an older cache where the actual location is further away than that. You mention this is a new cache, so perhaps the owner was able to convince the Reviewer that "a good reason was provided"?

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Well the puzzle involved science fiction books and the posted coordinates were at a space and science museum so I guess that's a decent reason. But 13 miles?

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Well the puzzle involved science fiction books and the posted coordinates were at a space and science museum so I guess that's a decent reason. But 13 miles?

That's the closest space and science museum to the cache site.

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Maybe you solved it wrong?

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not crazy about the guideline[2mi or closer], specially if its in a cache dense area. one could setup a 2 mile grid and place the puzzle in the center and tell the likely spots the cache could be without even solving the puzzle.

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That's 12.5 square miles to search. Even if you could eliminate the areas around other caches, that's a lot of ground to search for something as small as a cache. Good luck with that.

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not crazy about the guideline[2mi or closer], specially if its in a cache dense area. one could setup a 2 mile grid and place the puzzle in the center and tell the likely spots the cache could be without even solving the puzzle.

I know of at least one FTF hound who does this if he can't solve the puzzle the intended way.

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On 4/6/2010 at 11:13 PM, narcissa said:

I know of at least one FTF hound who does this if he can't solve the puzzle the intended way.

I can't blame that person. I do like the 2mi guideline, especially when puzzles make so little sense that the coordinates appear to be way off where they should be.

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On 4/7/2010 at 4:13 AM, narcissa said:
power69 said:

not crazy about the guideline[2mi or closer], specially if its in a cache dense area. one could setup a 2 mile grid and place the puzzle in the center and tell the likely spots the cache could be without even solving the puzzle.

I know of at least one FTF hound who does this if he can't solve the puzzle the intended way.

I know of at least one cacher who scatter-guns areas around puzzle caches with their own fake cache pages in a bid to battleship the puzzle.

Some of those locations actually do end up having caches hidden at them though - although it's usually easy to tell which they are as they are such pointless locations - probably just intended to try to keep the local reviewer from detecting what's going on.

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On 4/6/2010 at 3:03 AM, power69 said:

not crazy about the guideline[2mi or closer], specially if its in a cache dense area. one could setup a 2 mile grid and place the puzzle in the center and tell the likely spots the cache could be without even solving the puzzle.

Yeah, that's sad when the cache density is so thick (spaced 0.1 mile apart) that you can determine where the final is located on a mystery or multi-cache just by looking for the only available gap on the map.

Edited by medoug
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It is true that currently, no physical cache placement should be further than 2 miles from the posted coordinates unless there is some specific reason for that, but that guideline hasn't always been around. There is a puzzle cache near me that is 30 miles from the posted coordinates (and yes I have confirmed that both with personal experience and with correspondence with the cache owner). The cache was placed in 2004, when evidently the rules were not as strict. My advice to you is to be sure that it wasn't a red herring. I always check the gallery to verify coordinates when a checker isn't available. I also read previous logs to see if other cachers' experiences could be applied to the location I have in mind. A large museum seems like something that people would mention, intentionally or not.

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18 minutes ago, TheLimeCat said:

It is true that currently, no physical cache placement should be further than 2 miles from the posted coordinates unless there is some specific reason for that, but that guideline hasn't always been around. There is a puzzle cache near me that is 30 miles from the posted coordinates (and yes I have confirmed that both with personal experience and with correspondence with the cache owner). The cache was placed in 2004, when evidently the rules were not as strict. My advice to you is to be sure that it wasn't a red herring. I always check the gallery to verify coordinates when a checker isn't available. I also read previous logs to see if other cachers' experiences could be applied to the location I have in mind. A large museum seems like something that people would mention, intentionally or not.

There's one from 2001 posted right at the Atlanta airport that's actually hidden about 54 miles to the northeast.

Of course, this CO also happens to be a reviewer and has several caches that have been disabled for over ten years, so it's clear they get a pass when it comes to the rules.

Edited by J Grouchy
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4 hours ago, TheLimeCat said:

It is true that currently, no physical cache placement should be further than 2 miles from the posted coordinates unless there is some specific reason for that, but that guideline hasn't always been around.

GC has set the create & edit cache pages to not let you update if the distance is more than 2 miles - so the 'guideline' is now a hard rule.  No grandfathering this time.  It does make it "fun" for us that have finals beyond that limit (especially my Challenge cache that used to be updated weekly with peoples finds).

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What is with all the zombie thread bumping lately? Does this seem spammy to anyone else?

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22 minutes ago, narcissa said:

What is with all the zombie thread bumping lately? Does this seem spammy to anyone else?

No.

Just looks like a relative newcomer to the forums not noticing the last post date.

I myself didn't even realise it was a zombie thread until I scrolled back again to your last post.

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2 hours ago, narcissa said:

What is with all the zombie thread bumping lately? Does this seem spammy to anyone else?

Would you rather they start a whole new thread on a subject that's been discussed at length already?   Usually when people do, they get directed to those old threads anyway.

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shame the first post does not include the GC number  jeff = bones1.

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On 1/2/2018 at 2:57 PM, J Grouchy said:

There's one from 2001 posted right at the Atlanta airport that's actually hidden about 54 miles to the northeast.

I didn't start caching until 2002, and my memory might be fuzzy, but it's quite possible that the guideline wasn't in effect back in 2001. You didn't start until 2010, but have been around long enough to know that caches are reviewed under current guidelines, and there's never been any rules about retroactive application of the guidelines.

Quote

Of course, this CO also happens to be a reviewer and has several caches that have been disabled for over ten years, so it's clear they get a pass when it comes to the rules.

AFAIK those long disabled caches are on NPS land. So those caches are not blocking any new hides nearby. And since they've softened their position on caches placed on their properties there's really no reason for archival if there's a chance that permission might be granted is there? Perhaps you're just taking it personally since your NA log from 2016 was ignored?

Also since you're local you're probably aware that Erik retired from his position as a volunteer reviewer after 15 years of service to the community over a year ago, so really you're just posting to grind an anti HQ axe aren't you?

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On 02/01/2018 at 7:57 PM, J Grouchy said:

There's one from 2001 posted right at the Atlanta airport that's actually hidden about 54 miles to the northeast.

There are a number of antipodean/reflection/gravity train puzzles, where the icon is as far away as the other side of the world. These all date from before the 2 mile limit was brought in.

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7 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:

There are a number of antipodean/reflection/gravity train puzzles, where the icon is as far away as the other side of the world. These all date from before the 2 mile limit was brought in.

Like this one?

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16 hours ago, wimseyguy said:

AFAIK those long disabled caches are on NPS land. So those caches are not blocking any new hides nearby. And since they've softened their position on caches placed on their properties there's really no reason for archival if there's a chance that permission might be granted is there? Perhaps you're just taking it personally since your NA log from 2016 was ignored?

A - I did not post an NA log.  Nice try.

B - What is the point in disabling?  Why not just archive and publish when they are allowed...like any other cache on earth would be?  The only possible reason is to have the really old "hidden on" date for a cache that hasn't been there in a decade.  Don't insult our intelligence...it's all about the stupid Jasmer.

He may not be a reviewer, but claiming he doesn't get preferential treatment is ridiculous.  Show me one non-reviewer that had his or her cache disabled for ten years without archival.  I'd honestly like to see one because I'm HOPING there isn't preferential treatment.

Edited by J Grouchy
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I apologize-the NA log follows your posted note that essentially asks for archival.

I don't know Erik all that well but I have cached with him a few times and shared a meal or two. I suspect that he's more interested in preserving your local history and not enabling challenge chasers. I didn't see any challenge finds on his profile. He's a Charter Member and was one of the first volunteers outside of Seattle. Perhaps that's why he's been granted some latitude in this unusual situation?

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On 4/5/2010 at 6:54 PM, DanOCan said:

According to the guidelines for Mystery caches: "Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 km) away from the true cache location."

That hasn't always been the case, so sometimes you come across an older cache where the actual location is further away than that. You mention this is a new cache, so perhaps the owner was able to convince the Reviewer that "a good reason was provided"?

Sometimes the puzzle cache may be a multy also. I recently found one of that type. It took me on about 200 miles of driving. The to the final about 70 miles as the crow flys from the ? icon. But stage one was within the two mile limit. That cache was not too old.

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