# Please don't hog the GPS signals

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This is no joke. I’m old enough to remember when magnetic compasses were all the rage and the devastating affect they had on the earth’s magnetic field. Deviations and variations of ten, fifteen, even twenty degrees in some areas were the disastrous results that we still live with today. Signal sharing seems like a good idea whose time has come.

Bahahahah! That's awesome.

This frustrates me every time the topic comes up in the forums. People panic and think that their GPSr will just "run out" one day.

What they don't understand is that the actual problem is due to a geodetic effect. Although the mathematics have only been worked out in spaces containing up to 9 units (the equations become exponentially more difficult) it is not impossible to extrapolate to larger numbers, at least in theory.

In a typical Riemannian manifold, defined as a smooth manifold with a smooth section of the positive-definite quadratic forms on the tangent bundle, the computation of geometric dilution of precision of any unit should be understood to be affected by the presence of other GPS units in the defined space. Although this effect theoretically extends to infinite distances, for practical purposes (and to simplify the math), units greater than 528 feet away are usually ignored (you didn't think that number was just made up, did you?)

Anyway, to make a long story short, the theory actually seems to indicate that additional GPS units in the defined space actually stabilize the effect of any other given unit in the space. So the most stable situation would be to have a GPS unit placed in a grid every foot in a circle 528 feet in radius around a cache.

All of this ignores the Lense–Thirring effect, which (theoretically) should also add to the difficulty of getting an accurate reading (i.e. during the drunken bee dance). This may have as much (or even more) effect than the de Sitter effect, although it has not yet been measured - or even proven to exist on the scale of recreational geocaching.

Well.....you know who the real signal hogs are.....

.....it's the hams (aka Amateur Radio Operators). They have many bands and almost the entire band plans allow for band hogging analog voice.....they should give up the frequencies so our GPS receivers will work better.

The state of Hawaii has placed a value added tax to anyone using any GPS device that gets collected when the device is turned on and when it locks to at least 1 satellite signal. It is currently exempt from the general sales tax, but not for long.

This is no joke. I’m old enough to remember when magnetic compasses were all the rage and the devastating affect they had on the earth’s magnetic field. Deviations and variations of ten, fifteen, even twenty degrees in some areas were the disastrous results that we still live with today. Signal sharing seems like a good idea whose time has come.

Bahahahah! That's awesome.

No it's not. Just wait till the earths polarity switches again..

See? That's why I do most of my caching at night. WAY more available signals at night when everyone is asleep.

But watch out for cops who bum rush you into a cold body of water...

See? That's why I do most of my caching at night. WAY more available signals at night when everyone is asleep.

But watch out for cops who bum rush you into a cold body of water...

Ahhh.....you see I'm an amateur astronomer and my computer controlled telecope has a GPS built in so it knows where it is. Of course I only use the 'scope at night so I'm sorry to say you are not necessarily getting more signal at night.... we stargazers are stealing it

Chris (MrB)

See? That's why I do most of my caching at night. WAY more available signals at night when everyone is asleep.

But watch out for cops who bum rush you into a cold body of water...

Ahhh.....you see I'm an amateur astronomer and my computer controlled telecope has a GPS built in so it knows where it is. Of course I only use the 'scope at night so I'm sorry to say you are not necessarily getting more signal at night.... we stargazers are stealing it

Chris (MrB)

Fair warning: you still have to manually log (by hand) the caches. It doesn't count to see it through the telescope ;-)

I'm having problems with the reception on satellite #11. The next time it passes over, I'm gonna take it out with my .30-06 modified automatic Springfield. Then y'all will have to share the signals from all the other satellites. Muahahaha.

I know how to fix it, really I do!! Place all the caches 20 feet apart, then we will only use .0378787 of the original signal required to find them if they were 528 feet apart. Also the number hungriest could get their numbers up much much faster and they wouldn't use near as much signal. Problem solved!!

I'm having problems with the reception on satellite #11. The next time it passes over, I'm gonna take it out with my .30-06 modified automatic Springfield. Then y'all will have to share the signals from all the other satellites. Muahahaha.

Go for it. I never use #11 anyway. Just leave #6 alone.

I do my part. I turn off the GPS when driving to the cache, and give other people dirty looks if I see a Nuvi on their windshield.

And for goodness sakes, close the blinds if you're not in the room and needing the light to read or something. We should all conserve solar energy.

I do my part. I turn off the GPS when driving to the cache, and give other people dirty looks if I see a Nuvi on their windshield.

And for goodness sakes, close the blinds if you're not in the room and needing the light to read or something. We should all conserve solar energy.

Sunshine is over-rated. Since I started using Moonshine I've found that I don't see much sunshine, so use all you want to.

I'm glad to see this topic coming up again. It is even more pertinent now than it was when originally written.

We've got so many more cachers using so many more machines, now even cell phones!!

I guess the good news is caches will get harder and harder to find, so that will keep up the challenge level for me as I get better and better at this game.

With the increase in number of geocachers, there is a shortage of GPS signals to go around. This results in longer time for the GPSr to lock on to the satellites, and in wildly inaccurate coordinates.

Obviously, if this is allowed to continue, geocaching as a hobby may well cease to exist.

How, then, should we go about solving this problem?

I propose that all geocachers be divided into 12 groups, and each group be given a 2 hour window every day to go geocaching. This should provide a temporary relief to the situation until a more permanent solution is found.

Your group ID and geocaching timetable will be sent to you shortly. Please do your part and keep geocaching alive. And have a good April 1st.

In the 15 months since this thread started, things have only gotten worse. Before Smartphone technology, unused gps signals just floated around randomly in space. Now some phone carriers are letting customers download signals directly onto their phones, and keep "rollover signals" that are unused in a given month stored for later use.

==>

eh?

I do my part. I turn off the GPS when driving to the cache, and give other people dirty looks if I see a Nuvi on their windshield.

And for goodness sakes, close the blinds if you're not in the room and needing the light to read or something. We should all conserve solar energy.

Sunshine is over-rated. Since I started using Moonshine I've found that I don't see much sunshine, so use all you want to.

Please pass me some of that Moonshine.

You know, I really think some of you need some serious time off, if you think this thread is for real.

Your GPS receiver is Not a transmitter, THUS it cannot hog or obliterate the signal from a satellite transmitter, unless it is designed to send a signal (like a SPOT locator) in the frequency range. (granted, there are some newer cordless phones are getting into that band, and there was talk about a Cellular provider somehow obtaining rights to occupy a good chunk of the GPS satellite frequency band.)

to those who continue to feed the paranoia that every time you turn your GPS on, the government can track you to a pinpoint, You're mistaking your Garmin or Magellan for a Smart-Phone. (which it is not.) and despite recent news of the news media getting access to some smart phones, It takes a court order (and should ALWAYS) to be able to gain that access, and there had better be a bloody good reason to need that kind of tracking & locating.

You know, I really think some of you need some serious time off, if you think this thread is for real.

I don't see anyone who thinks this thread is for real...

You know, I really think some of you need some serious time off, if you think this thread is for real.

I don't see anyone who thinks this thread is for real...

It isn't? Then howcome my acuracy is now at +/- 8" thanks to signal sipper and the dramatic increase in vehicular units locally for it to sip from?

8 feet? That's what I get on a good day.

8 feet? That's what I get on a good day.

'=foot

"=inch

Feet, inches, who actually pays attention to this stuff?

Feet, inches, who actually pays attention to this stuff?

Hey there is 88" in between 8" and 8'.

You know, I really think some of you need some serious time off, if you think this thread is for real.

Your GPS receiver is Not a transmitter, THUS it cannot hog or obliterate the signal from a satellite transmitter, unless it is designed to send a signal (like a SPOT locator) in the frequency range. (granted, there are some newer cordless phones are getting into that band, and there was talk about a Cellular provider somehow obtaining rights to occupy a good chunk of the GPS satellite frequency band.)

to those who continue to feed the paranoia that every time you turn your GPS on, the government can track you to a pinpoint, You're mistaking your Garmin or Magellan for a Smart-Phone. (which it is not.) and despite recent news of the news media getting access to some smart phones, It takes a court order (and should ALWAYS) to be able to gain that access, and there had better be a bloody good reason to need that kind of tracking & locating.

Of course it's real. Why else would they have to keep putting up satellites, if we're not using up all the existing signals? Huh? Tell me that.

The military.. oh, don't get me started. They act like they own the whole thing. They even think they invented the Internet, the nerve.

We all know the internet was invented by Dr. Frankenstein's assistant, Algore.

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