Dartmoor Antiquities

[alanwilbourne]

This is extremely serious.

I am a Dartmoor Letterboxer and I have found two geocaches actually sited in the walls of Dartmoor Antiquities. The letterboxing, and I believe, the geocaching code of coduct clearly states that this is strictly prohibited. If the Dartmoor National Park was to find out about this practice we would all be banned from carrying on our respective hobbies. I'm afraid that I don't know who to contact about this so I have put this topic in your forum in the hope that someone will pick it up and take some action

[+HouseOfDragons]

Are you able to identify which caches they are? If so, you can contact the reviewer who published them (the very first log on the page) and voice your concerns.

[+third-degree-witch]

This is extremely serious.

I am a Dartmoor Letterboxer and I have found two geocaches actually sited in the walls of Dartmoor Antiquities. The letterboxing, and I believe, the geocaching code of coduct clearly states that this is strictly prohibited. If the Dartmoor National Park was to find out about this practice we would all be banned from carrying on our respective hobbies. I'm afraid that I don't know who to contact about this so I have put this topic in your forum in the hope that someone will pick it up and take some action

 

you say you are a letterboxer on Dartmoor,what were you looking for in the 'walls of Dartmoor Antiquities' in the first place in order to find these 2 caches?...letterboxes perhaps ?

[+Pharisee]

Oooo.... Hope the Modern Antiquarians don't get to hear about it

[+NickandAliandEliza]

Oooo.... Hope the Modern Antiquarians don't get to hear about it

 

Naughty naughty!

[+HouseOfDragons]

This is extremely serious.

I am a Dartmoor Letterboxer and I have found two geocaches actually sited in the walls of Dartmoor Antiquities. The letterboxing, and I believe, the geocaching code of coduct clearly states that this is strictly prohibited. If the Dartmoor National Park was to find out about this practice we would all be banned from carrying on our respective hobbies. I'm afraid that I don't know who to contact about this so I have put this topic in your forum in the hope that someone will pick it up and take some action

 

you say you are a letterboxer on Dartmoor,what were you looking for in the 'walls of Dartmoor Antiquities' in the first place in order to find these 2 caches?...letterboxes perhaps ?

 

Does it matter? The fact is they shouldn't be there (by the sound of it).

[alanwilbourne]

This is extremely serious.

I am a Dartmoor Letterboxer and I have found two geocaches actually sited in the walls of Dartmoor Antiquities. The letterboxing, and I believe, the geocaching code of coduct clearly states that this is strictly prohibited. If the Dartmoor National Park was to find out about this practice we would all be banned from carrying on our respective hobbies. I'm afraid that I don't know who to contact about this so I have put this topic in your forum in the hope that someone will pick it up and take some action

 

you say you are a letterboxer on Dartmoor,what were you looking for in the 'walls of Dartmoor Antiquities' in the first place in order to find these 2 caches?...letterboxes perhaps ?

 

Does it matter? The fact is they shouldn't be there (by the sound of it).

 

Absolutely right. They shouldn't be there. Both were found because they had covering stones that were very visible when walking past. As responsible letterboxers, we check what's there and remove as appropriate. We would do the same if we found a letterbox thus sited.

One was found in a hole in the wall of a bridge over the old Princetown railway line. It was called Plymouth and Dartmoor Railway 20 by Hobo & Miss. The other was in a wall at Browne's House but I don't know who sited this one.

It has to be said that it can be quite difficult sometimes to recognise man-made features on Dartmoor but I think that if we all bear this in mind when siting everything will be OK.

Please be assured that I am not trying to be confrontational but I want to ensure that we can all carry on our respective hobbies happily in the future.

[+rob.marsh]

Have you removed them then?

 

If so you really ought to add a note to the owner on the cache page (admittidly I haven't check if you have). The owners have the right to know if you have removed them, and why. If it is as you say a breach of rules, then they deserve have that (politely) explained as they may not know this.

 

Have you notified a reviewer too? There was obvioulsy a reason that they got published, perhaps they got permission for instance. Equally, if reviews are unaware of the rules you mention, they need to have it brought to thier attention for future caches.

[+Happy Humphrey]

Have you removed them then?

 

If so you really ought to add a note to the owner on the cache page (admittidly I haven't check if you have). The owners have the right to know if you have removed them, and why. If it is as you say a breach of rules, then they deserve have that (politely) explained as they may not know this.

 

Have you notified a reviewer too? There was obvioulsy a reason that they got published, perhaps they got permission for instance. Equally, if reviews are unaware of the rules you mention, they need to have it brought to thier attention for future caches.

I think that the OP explained in his initial post that he hasn't contacted the reviewer. It was very good of him to post on the forum and I think it's now up to geocachers to sort this out. Why should a letterboxer need to put any more effort in? A note to the owner is a bit much to ask.

 

The cache description of the one identified says

THE CACHE CAN BE FOUND WITHOUT MOVING ANY STONES. DO NOT PULL ANY STONES OUT OF THIS STRUCTURE.

However, the cache placer might not have known that this bridge is classified as a "Dartmoor Antiquity". I'm not sure what the significance of that is, but possibly it's not a good place to have a cache and the placement should be clarified. There's always the chance that the cache was not actually in the bridge stonework when placed; they do get moved, and I note that the last two visits were DNFs.

 

Hopefully this thread will be enough for a reviewer to check.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Happy Humphrey

[+keehotee]

The cache is not actually in the brickwork, but in a void under one end where wash-out has eroded the soil (or at least it was when I visited a year or two ago).

I contacted the OP privately asking about the caches yesterday but have not yet had a reply from him......

 

Edited to add - as far as I know, neither the granite railway bridge or Brownes House are "archaeologically sensitive" sites, as listed in the agreement - but I will clarify this. There is no written prohibition on placing caches or letterboxes on or near man-made objects or antiquities on the moor.

Edited March 30, 2010 by keehotee

[Pajaholic]

The cache is not actually in the brickwork, but in a void under one end where wash-out has eroded the soil (or at least it was when I visited a year or two ago).

I contacted the OP privately asking about the caches yesterday but have not yet had a reply from him......

 

Edited to add - as far as I know, neither the granite railway bridge or Brownes House are "archaeologically sensitive" sites, as listed in the agreement - but I will clarify this. There is no written prohibition on placing caches or letterboxes on or near man-made objects or antiquities on the moor.

I agree. For info, I'm also working with the OP to resolve this. I've pm'd Hobo and Miss to alert them of this thread and invite them to take the matter up with the OP, who AFAICT has retained the cache.

 

Further info: the OP sent me the grid ref for the second cache, which AFAICT is GCPQ5T (Tom Brown's House). The cache has been there since July 2005 and is allegedly under a pile of stones rather than in a wall.

 

HTH,

 

Geoff

Edited March 30, 2010 by Pajaholic

[+CANTOR CLAN]

THIS CACHE BELONGS TO ME

this cache has been here for 5 years now with 45 hits and NOBODY has said any thing about it being placed in an unppropriate place and some of the cachers that have found it i consider to be an authority on dartmoor and they would of emailed me if they thought it was a problem ,if geocache are going to start moving goal posts on placing caches then i will remove all 86 of my caches and close my account,the cache is placed under a large stone (look at the pictures) you don`t have to move any thing ,i have seen caches in worse places and ps whoes alan wilbourne his never done a cache in his life

[+Happy Humphrey]

...ps whoes alan wilbourne his never done a cache in his life

I am a Dartmoor Letterboxer ...

I wouldn't get too upset. There might be a hidden agenda here (it's been known to happen) and you're surrounded by geocaching buddies. If you're confident that there's no problem with the cache placement then there's no need to worry. Alan Wilbourne may be genuine, but your assurances as an experienced cacher ring true to me; and if he's on the level he'll be satisfied that he's been mistaken in this case.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Happy Humphrey

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

Paul..

 

If you read the thread, nobodies said that Geocaching are changing the rules.

 

It appears that Alan ( A letterboxer) has concerns about two caches being placed in "Dartmoor Antiquities" one of which is your cache, one of which is a Hobo and Miss Dartmoor & Princetown Railway cache.

 

The Letterboxing code of conduct which was agreed with the National Park says:

LETTERBOX OWNER'S CODE.

 

1. Boxes should not be sited:- In any kind of antiquity, in or near stone rows or circles, cists or cairns; nor in any kind of building, walls or ruins, peatcutters' or tinners' huts etc.

 

Alan believes (and I tend to agree) that Geocaches should follow the same Code re hiding caches.

 

I've not done your cache, so can make no comment, but I agree I've seen caches in totally inappropriate places.

[+drdick&vick]

It would seem that Letterboxers do have a down on this one, read pearlywhirly's entry.

 

Must say that judging from the spoiler it is ok and not in the ruins.

[+Von-Horst]

Paul..

 

The Letterboxing code of conduct which was agreed with the National Park says:

LETTERBOX OWNER'S CODE.

 

1. Boxes should not be sited:- In any kind of antiquity, in or near stone rows or circles, cists or cairns; nor in any kind of building, walls or ruins, peatcutters' or tinners' huts etc.

 

 

errmmm, but that's not what the National Park's own website states;

 

"Please remember that a user, and National Park friendly letterbox is sited...in a natural hole or cavity away from archaeologically and ecologically sensitive sites...".

 

No more, no less.

 

Presumably archaeologically and ecologically sensitive sites are Scheduled Ancient Monuments and SSSIs respectively...

 

Mike

[+keehotee]

Paul..

 

The Letterboxing code of conduct which was agreed with the National Park says:

LETTERBOX OWNER'S CODE.

 

1. Boxes should not be sited:- In any kind of antiquity, in or near stone rows or circles, cists or cairns; nor in any kind of building, walls or ruins, peatcutters' or tinners' huts etc.

 

 

errmmm, but that's not what the National Park's own website states;

 

"Please remember that a user, and National Park friendly letterbox is sited...in a natural hole or cavity away from archaeologically and ecologically sensitive sites...".

 

No more, no less.

 

Presumably archaeologically and ecologically sensitive sites are Scheduled Ancient Monuments and SSSIs respectively...

 

Mike

 

I agree - and so do Dartmoor National Park.

 

When I originally spoke to them, the code of conduct they asked us to adhere to was the one they publish themselves, which makes no mention of antiquities or man made objects.

[+t.a.folk]

Quick google ,found this linky to D.N.P.A. info on arch's etc .

Maybe helpful ...or not .

 

http://www.dartmoor-npa.gov.uk/au-arch.pdf