Caches on Foot Paths/dirt roads

[+ChaceGuild]

Dear all,

 

As a relative newbie to Geocaching (5th day in!), I'm keen to place my first caches(s) out in the local are, but would like some advice regarding permissions Having done a few searches on the forums, et cetera, I can't seem to find any info on the placement of caches on/immediately adjacent to Public Footpaths or "dirt" roads?

 

Basically, my situation is thus - quite a few "roads" in my area are actually dirt tracks, and some even have "Public Footpath" signs on them. Would I need to contact the landowner/Highways Agency/local Council regarding permission? Or am I free to just place my caches out there?

 

The caches I've got to place are very small lock-lid tupperware boxes, but if these are not suitable due to permission problems, would it be better to get a few "nano" caches and attach them to the aforementioned signs instead?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I'd love to get these caches setup asap

[+keehotee]

Dear all,

 

As a relative newbie to Geocaching (5th day in!), I'm keen to place my first caches(s) out in the local are, but would like some advice regarding permissions Having done a few searches on the forums, et cetera, I can't seem to find any info on the placement of caches on/immediately adjacent to Public Footpaths or "dirt" roads?

 

Basically, my situation is thus - quite a few "roads" in my area are actually dirt tracks, and some even have "Public Footpath" signs on them. Would I need to contact the landowner/Highways Agency/local Council regarding permission? Or am I free to just place my caches out there?

 

The caches I've got to place are very small lock-lid tupperware boxes, but if these are not suitable due to permission problems, would it be better to get a few "nano" caches and attach them to the aforementioned signs instead?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I'd love to get these caches setup asap

 

Hello.

 

1. I would make sure you have experience of a wide range of cache types and hides before placing your first cache. How much experience is up to you - but do not be too keen to rush out and hide a cache as soon as you get started...

 

2. When you submit a cache for publication, you state that it has "adequate permission" to be there. The reviewers will look at the location, and if there are any specific issues they will ask you to prove you have permission. Areas with permission issues will include (but are not necessarily limited to) SSSIs, National Trust property, Forestry Commission land, obvious private property, etc.

Have a good read of the "Permission" and "Help the Reviewer" sections here for more guidance...

 

3. A nano or a micro will need exactly the same amount of permission as a larger box - and larger boxes tend to be better received by landowners who can then see the "family treasure hunt" angle of the game.

And, of course, there are cachers out there who loathe nanos. Every time you hide one, you alienate one of these cachers

Edited March 10, 2010 by keehotee

[+Moote]

As all land is owned in the UK, you theoretically require permission to place any cache.

 

Offence of leaving litter

 

(1)If any person throws down, drops or otherwise deposits in, into or from any place to which this section applies, and leaves, any thing whatsoever in such circumstances as to cause, or contribute to, or tend to lead to, the defacement by litter of any place to which this section applies, he shall, subject to subsection (2) below, be guilty of an offence.

 

(2)No offence is committed under this section where the depositing and leaving of the thing was—

(a)authorised by law, or

(b)done with the consent of the owner, occupier or other person or authority having control of the place in or into which that thing was deposited.

 

(3)This section applies to any public open place and, in so far as the place is not a public open place, also to the following places—

(a)any relevant highway or relevant road and any trunk road which is a special road;

(b)any place on relevant land of a principal litter authority;

©any place on relevant Crown land;

(d)any place on relevant land of any designated statutory undertaker;

(e)any place on relevant land of any designated educational institution;

(f)any place on relevant land within a litter control area of a local authority.

 

(4)In this section “public open place” means a place in the open air to which the public are entitled or permitted to have access without payment; and any covered place open to the air on at least one side and available for public use shall be treated as a public open place.

 

(5)A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

 

(6)A local authority, with a view to promoting the abatement of litter, may take such steps as the authority think appropriate for making the effect of subsection (5) above known to the public in their area.

 

(7)In any proceedings in Scotland for an offence under this section it shall be lawful to convict the accused on the evidence of one witness.

[+lost!]

Dear all,

 

As a relative newbie to Geocaching (5th day in!), I'm keen to place my first caches(s) out in the local are, but would like some advice regarding permissions Having done a few searches on the forums, et cetera, I can't seem to find any info on the placement of caches on/immediately adjacent to Public Footpaths or "dirt" roads?

 

Basically, my situation is thus - quite a few "roads" in my area are actually dirt tracks, and some even have "Public Footpath" signs on them. Would I need to contact the landowner/Highways Agency/local Council regarding permission? Or am I free to just place my caches out there?

 

 

If the "dirt tracks" aren't public footpaths, bridleways or on open access land then personally I would either get permission from the landowner or avoid. Good luck with your first cache.

Edited March 10, 2010 by lost!

[+Happy Humphrey]

...Offence of leaving litter...

Not quite relevant as caches aren't litter. They're not abandoned, and so we generally have a legal right to leave them. Caching in Britain has been going on for centuries and has never been illegal per se. The status of the land isn't relevant either, except in relation to access rights, but if the cache causes a hazard (for instance) it might become illegal. Also, I suppose that if the cache listing is disabled then the physical cache could be regarded as abandoned and then become litter. So strictly speaking, you should remove a cache before its listing is archived.

 

On the "permission" question; if it's right at the side of a public footpath then it's a case of using common sense and take a view based on various other caches that you've found over the last few months. Apart from the special cases mentioned above, no-one can say whether it's right or wrong without knowing the exact location and background to the cache site; which is partly why it's left to the cache owner to decide on the level of permission necessary.

 

Note that SSSI's are not necessarily obvious on the ground. They may extend for miles and include roads, houses and various buildings within them, so you have to check using maps. Or just submit the cache and leave the reviewer to check!

Edited March 10, 2010 by Happy Humphrey

[+Moote]

...Offence of leaving litter...

Not quite relevant as caches aren't litter. They're not abandoned, and so we generally have a legal right to leave them. Caching in Britain has been going on for centuries and has never been illegal per se. The status of the land isn't relevant either, except in relation to access rights, but if the cache causes a hazard (for instance) it might become illegal. Also, I suppose that if the cache listing is disabled then the physical cache could be regarded as abandoned and then become litter. So strictly speaking, you should remove a cache before its listing is archived.

 

On the "permission" question; if it's right at the side of a public footpath then it's a case of using common sense and take a view based on various other caches that you've found over the last few months. Apart from the special cases mentioned above, no-one can say whether it's right or wrong without knowing the exact location and background to the cache site; which is partly why it's left to the cache owner to decide on the level of permission necessary.

 

Note that SSSI's are not necessarily obvious on the ground. They may extend for miles and include roads, houses and various buildings within them, so you have to check using maps. Or just submit the cache and leave the reviewer to check!

If left without permission on another person's property, it is classed as littering. If you leave anything without prior consent, it is litter.

[+keehotee]

...Offence of leaving litter...

Not quite relevant as caches aren't litter. They're not abandoned, and so we generally have a legal right to leave them. Caching in Britain has been going on for centuries and has never been illegal per se. The status of the land isn't relevant either, except in relation to access rights, but if the cache causes a hazard (for instance) it might become illegal. Also, I suppose that if the cache listing is disabled then the physical cache could be regarded as abandoned and then become litter. So strictly speaking, you should remove a cache before its listing is archived.

 

On the "permission" question; if it's right at the side of a public footpath then it's a case of using common sense and take a view based on various other caches that you've found over the last few months. Apart from the special cases mentioned above, no-one can say whether it's right or wrong without knowing the exact location and background to the cache site; which is partly why it's left to the cache owner to decide on the level of permission necessary.

 

Note that SSSI's are not necessarily obvious on the ground. They may extend for miles and include roads, houses and various buildings within them, so you have to check using maps. Or just submit the cache and leave the reviewer to check!

If left without permission on another person's property, it is classed as littering. If you leave anything without prior consent, it is litter.

 

Doesn't it have to be discarded or abandoned to be litter?

It strikes me that if that is the case, the fine for littering around here is far less than the parking tickets are....I can see an opportunity there

[markandlynn]

...Offence of leaving litter...

Not quite relevant as caches aren't litter. They're not abandoned, and so we generally have a legal right to leave them. Caching in Britain has been going on for centuries and has never been illegal per se. The status of the land isn't relevant either, except in relation to access rights, but if the cache causes a hazard (for instance) it might become illegal. Also, I suppose that if the cache listing is disabled then the physical cache could be regarded as abandoned and then become litter. So strictly speaking, you should remove a cache before its listing is archived.

 

On the "permission" question; if it's right at the side of a public footpath then it's a case of using common sense and take a view based on various other caches that you've found over the last few months. Apart from the special cases mentioned above, no-one can say whether it's right or wrong without knowing the exact location and background to the cache site; which is partly why it's left to the cache owner to decide on the level of permission necessary.

 

Note that SSSI's are not necessarily obvious on the ground. They may extend for miles and include roads, houses and various buildings within them, so you have to check using maps. Or just submit the cache and leave the reviewer to check!

If left without permission on another person's property, it is classed as littering. If you leave anything without prior consent, it is litter.

 

Doesn't it have to be discarded or abandoned to be litter?

It strikes me that if that is the case, the fine for littering around here is far less than the parking tickets are....I can see an opportunity there

People have lots of opinions on this but until there is some actual case law we wont really know the answer and based on the ammount of real litter we see arround i doubt we will ever see a geo cacher prosecutted under the littering laws especially if they have attended CITO events.

 

In response to the OP just check who's land the PF goes through if its a nature reserve, country park etc ask yourself what would be considered adequate permission to place a well hidden box ??

[+ChaceGuild]

Cheers for all the responses so far

 

It's really interesting how many different views there are on this topic, as any other really, but I've come to realise "The Law" is incredibly variable in meaning in certain circumstances

 

In response to questions as to whether this will be on a SSSI/Reserve/Park etc., no it's not, it'll be a normal part of the village. It's confusing because technically it's a "road", but in fact there's no tarmac, and it does have "Public Footpath" signs on it. That's why I was asking the questions.

 

Kehotee - thanks for the pointers, I think that given your info, it'd be best if I just contact the local council's PRoW section Funnily, I do know a few people who work there, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get some clarification.

 

Cheers again folks, and I'll be sure to let you all know how I get on with permissions

[+Happy Humphrey]

Sorry to the OP for going slightly off-topic, but I think your question has been answered now.

If left without permission on another person's property, it is classed as littering. If you leave anything without prior consent, it is litter.

Only if you abandon it; if it's clear that there's an intention to visit the cache then it's not litter. And consent doesn't make any difference.

For example, say a track across the moors is owned by the Water Authority. You leave a small box of supplies under a boulder next to the track, ready for some scouts to retrieve as part of an exercise later in the week. As far as I know; if it has a label making it clear that someone intends to recover it, it isn't litter (and "Geocache" infers this). Nor can the Water Authority prosecute you for not asking permission to leave it. Nor can they steal it without risking prosecution themselves.

 

Remember when the New Forest authorities took against geocaching? They removed all the caches but were careful to ensure that they were kept safe and available to the owners. In fact they were probably on thin ice by moving them at all unless they could find a bylaw specifically prohibiting caching. Had they dumped them like so much litter they could have been open to prosecution.

[+ChaceGuild]

Sorry to the OP for going slightly off-topic, but I think your question has been answered now.

 

No probs, it has been answered, and your point is interesting

 

What this discussion has raised, in my opinion, is the issue of a non-concensus on the obtaining of permissions for placing caches. This seems fairly odd, given our law-crazed state, and perhaps could do with some structure?

 

Granted, a lot of local councils, as well as national organisations have given their permission, but it seems there's no hard-and-fast rule for obtaining permission Are we to just carry on applying individually to these organisations? Or should there be a national structure for people applying for permission to place a cache?

 

All opinions, experience etc. are welcome, but please don't put anyone down - this is an open discussion, and will help not only me as a newbie, but all newbies

[+Moote]

Sorry to the OP for going slightly off-topic, but I think your question has been answered now.

If left without permission on another person's property, it is classed as littering. If you leave anything without prior consent, it is litter.

Only if you abandon it; if it's clear that there's an intention to visit the cache then it's not litter. And consent doesn't make any difference.

For example, say a track across the moors is owned by the Water Authority. You leave a small box of supplies under a boulder next to the track, ready for some scouts to retrieve as part of an exercise later in the week. As far as I know; if it has a label making it clear that someone intends to recover it, it isn't litter (and "Geocache" infers this). Nor can the Water Authority prosecute you for not asking permission to leave it. Nor can they steal it without risking prosecution themselves.

 

Remember when the New Forest authorities took against geocaching? They removed all the caches but were careful to ensure that they were kept safe and available to the owners. In fact they were probably on thin ice by moving them at all unless they could find a bylaw specifically prohibiting caching. Had they dumped them like so much litter they could have been open to prosecution.

 

The act of Parliament does not make reference to the word abandoned you can't add that to the act, this is taken directly from the act, (unedited)

 

Environmental Protection Act 1990

 

1990 CHAPTER 43

 

Section 87

 

Offence of leaving litter

 

( 1 )If any person throws down, drops or otherwise deposits in, into or from any place to which this section applies, and leaves, any thing whatsoever in such circumstances as to cause, or contribute to, or tend to lead to, the defacement by litter of any place to which this section applies, he shall, subject to subsection ( 2 ) below, be guilty of an offence.

 

( 2 )No offence is committed under this section where the depositing and leaving of the thing was—

( a )authorised by law, or

( b )done with the consent of the owner, occupier or other person or authority having control of the place in or into which that thing was deposited.

 

( 3 )This section applies to any public open place and, in so far as the place is not a public open place, also to the following places—

( a )any relevant highway or relevant road and any trunk road which is a special road;

( b )any place on relevant land of a principal litter authority;

( c )any place on relevant Crown land;

( d )any place on relevant land of any designated statutory undertaker;

( e )any place on relevant land of any designated educational institution;

( f )any place on relevant land within a litter control area of a local authority.

 

( 4 )In this section “public open place” means a place in the open air to which the public are entitled or permitted to have access without payment; and any covered place open to the air on at least one side and available for public use shall be treated as a public open place.

 

( 5 )A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

 

( 6 )A local authority, with a view to promoting the abatement of litter, may take such steps as the authority think appropriate for making the effect of subsection (5) above known to the public in their area.

 

As this is the UK legal Statute instrument, please refer to this and inform me where you have the right to leave something without permission on another persons land.

[+keehotee]

Sorry to the OP for going slightly off-topic, but I think your question has been answered now.

If left without permission on another person's property, it is classed as littering. If you leave anything without prior consent, it is litter.

Only if you abandon it; if it's clear that there's an intention to visit the cache then it's not litter. And consent doesn't make any difference.

For example, say a track across the moors is owned by the Water Authority. You leave a small box of supplies under a boulder next to the track, ready for some scouts to retrieve as part of an exercise later in the week. As far as I know; if it has a label making it clear that someone intends to recover it, it isn't litter (and "Geocache" infers this). Nor can the Water Authority prosecute you for not asking permission to leave it. Nor can they steal it without risking prosecution themselves.

 

Remember when the New Forest authorities took against geocaching? They removed all the caches but were careful to ensure that they were kept safe and available to the owners. In fact they were probably on thin ice by moving them at all unless they could find a bylaw specifically prohibiting caching. Had they dumped them like so much litter they could have been open to prosecution.

 

The act of Parliament does not make reference to the word abandoned you can't add that to the act, this is taken directly from the act, (unedited)

 

Environmental Protection Act 1990

 

1990 CHAPTER 43

 

Section 87

 

Offence of leaving litter

 

( 1 )If any person throws down, drops or otherwise deposits in, into or from any place to which this section applies, and leaves, any thing whatsoever in such circumstances as to cause, or contribute to, or tend to lead to, the defacement by litter of any place to which this section applies, he shall, subject to subsection ( 2 ) below, be guilty of an offence.

 

( 2 )No offence is committed under this section where the depositing and leaving of the thing was—

( a )authorised by law, or

( b )done with the consent of the owner, occupier or other person or authority having control of the place in or into which that thing was deposited.

 

( 3 )This section applies to any public open place and, in so far as the place is not a public open place, also to the following places—

( a )any relevant highway or relevant road and any trunk road which is a special road;

( b )any place on relevant land of a principal litter authority;

( c )any place on relevant Crown land;

( d )any place on relevant land of any designated statutory undertaker;

( e )any place on relevant land of any designated educational institution;

( f )any place on relevant land within a litter control area of a local authority.

 

( 4 )In this section “public open place” means a place in the open air to which the public are entitled or permitted to have access without payment; and any covered place open to the air on at least one side and available for public use shall be treated as a public open place.

 

( 5 )A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.

 

( 6 )A local authority, with a view to promoting the abatement of litter, may take such steps as the authority think appropriate for making the effect of subsection (5) above known to the public in their area.

 

As this is the UK legal Statute instrument, please refer to this and inform me where you have the right to leave something without permission on another persons land.

 

That refers to the offence of leaving litter - without defining what IS litter. It also gives occasions where it is NOT litter (with the owners consent etc) but again, does not say what is and what isn't litter.

 

The only phrase that even comes close to being a definition within that text is "any thing whatsoever in such circumstances as to cause, or contribute to, or tend to lead to, the defacement by litter", and it would be quite simple to argue in a court that a hidden cache (or a car parked at the side of the road!) has not lead to the "defacement by litter".

[+t.a.folk]

quoting from Mootes posting

 

"Section 87

 

Offence of leaving litter

 

( 1 )If any person throws down, drops or otherwise deposits" (bold added by me )

 

Wouldn't a cache come under the " or otherwise deposits "?

Edited March 11, 2010 by t.a.folk

[+keehotee]

quoting from Mootes posting

 

"Section 87

 

Offence of leaving litter

 

( 1 )If any person throws down, drops or otherwise deposits" (bold added by me )

 

Wouldn't a cache come under the " or otherwise deposits "?

 

Yes - if it causes the area to be defaced by litter!!! That's the whole point - litter itself isn't defined, just the act of littering!

 

Putting a picnic blanket down is "or otherwise deposits". So are you going to consider that litter as well?

No - because you haven't abandoned it, or caused the "defacement of the area by littering".

[+uktim]

Sorry to the OP for going slightly off-topic, but I think your question has been answered now.

 

No probs, it has been answered, and your point is interesting

 

What this discussion has raised, in my opinion, is the issue of a non-concensus on the obtaining of permissions for placing caches. This seems fairly odd, given our law-crazed state, and perhaps could do with some structure?

 

Granted, a lot of local councils, as well as national organisations have given their permission, but it seems there's no hard-and-fast rule for obtaining permission Are we to just carry on applying individually to these organisations? Or should there be a national structure for people applying for permission to place a cache?

 

All opinions, experience etc. are welcome, but please don't put anyone down - this is an open discussion, and will help not only me as a newbie, but all newbies

 

We have confusion because we seem to use a double standard where land owned by a few select bodies requires proof of permission but the rest of it doesn't. I'd suggest we need a single standard, either permission is required for all caches or it is never required.

[+Moote]

quoting from Mootes posting

 

"Section 87

 

Offence of leaving litter

 

( 1 )If any person throws down, drops or otherwise deposits" (bold added by me )

 

Wouldn't a cache come under the " or otherwise deposits "?

 

Yes - if it causes the area to be defaced by litter!!! That's the whole point - litter itself isn't defined, just the act of littering!

 

Putting a picnic blanket down is "or otherwise deposits". So are you going to consider that litter as well?

No - because you haven't abandoned it, or caused the "defacement of the area by littering".

Tim, If the land owner finds a cache on his land (be that publicly or privately owned) if they think it is litter, then legally it is litter, If they think, hey this is a great Idea I'll keep that where it is, and look it up on the internet, then that is good. The issue is, if permission has not been granted, then the placer can only guess on the reaction of the landowner.

 

I guess it's placer beware, what I find laughable these days, is that an Earthcache requires permission, even though most are in publicly accessible areas, and require no more input into the area than any inquisitive tourist, yet real tupperware caches are allowed usually without question

[+natterjacktoad]

And how many prosecutions for littering have you seen recently.......?? People can be seen littering every day of the week, or failing to clear up after their dog, but very very few are ever prosecuted (or even reprimanded!) More chance of winning the lottery

[markandlynn]

And how many prosecutions for littering have you seen recently.......?? People can be seen littering every day of the week, or failing to clear up after their dog, but very very few are ever prosecuted (or even reprimanded!) More chance of winning the lottery

 

Its an ubelievably low number and considering you would have to go to court to prove that a geo cache is litter before levying the £50 fine it very unlikely to ever occur unless its £50 for every offence in which case all those power trails may just cost you a lot

 

Depositing and leaving litter

2004 51 prosecutions with £50 fine

2005 737 prosecutions with £50 fine

2006 1,169 prosecutions with £50 fine

2007 1,374 prosecutions with £50 fine

2008 1,202 prosecutions with £50 fine

 

Ofences of fly tipping are separate from this

[+ChaceGuild]

I guess this confusion can be somewhat cleared up by reading the GAGB guidelines - "Respect property rights and seek permission where appropriate.

Seek permission on all private property that's not generally open to public access. "

 

Under that guideline, referring back to my original question, I wouldn't need to seek permission. This is because the locations in question are not seen as "private property", and ARE "generally open to public access"

 

However, I'm still going to ask someone at the local council's Public Rights of Way (PRoW) team, just to cover my back When I've got a response from them, I'll be sure to post back here with it.

Edited March 11, 2010 by ChaceGuild

[+t.a.folk]

Putting a picnic blanket down is "or otherwise deposits". So are you going to consider that litter as well?

No - because you haven't abandoned it, or caused the "defacement of the area by littering".

 

I would consider my picnic blanket to be litter if I forgot to take it with me when I leave .

[+Flyfishermanbob]

Putting a picnic blanket down is "or otherwise deposits". So are you going to consider that litter as well?

No - because you haven't abandoned it, or caused the "defacement of the area by littering".

I would consider my picnic blanket to be litter if I forgot to take it with me when I leave .

 

So lets say you left it or your mobile phone or whatever on a train...... would you go to the nearest rubbish dump to see if it were there .....or "lost property" ?

 

Does this mean if I find a wallet with squillions of pounds in the countryside ...I don't need to hand it in to police ...because "Its Litter" ???

 

Edited March 11, 2010 by Flyfishermanbob

[+keehotee]

I guess this confusion can be somewhat cleared up by reading the GAGB guidelines - "Respect property rights and seek permission where appropriate.

Seek permission on all private property that's not generally open to public access. "

 

Under that guideline, referring back to my original question, I wouldn't need to seek permission. This is because the locations in question are not seen as "private property", and ARE "generally open to public access"

 

However, I'm still going to ask someone at the local council's Public Rights of Way (PRoW) team, just to cover my back When I've got a response from them, I'll be sure to post back here with it.

 

It gets worse.....

Just because an area is publicly accessible or open to the public does not make it public property - and a public right of way only gives you the right to "pass and repass" on the path, NOT to carry out recreational activities such as hiding or looking for tupperware.....

[+Flyfishermanbob]

[quote name='ChaceGuild'

Just because an area is publicly accessible or open to the public does not make it public property - and a public right of way only gives you the right to "pass and repass" on the path, NOT to carry out recreational activities such as hiding or looking for tupperware.....

 

 

in Engerland

[+t.a.folk]

Putting a picnic blanket down is "or otherwise deposits". So are you going to consider that litter as well?

No - because you haven't abandoned it, or caused the "defacement of the area by littering".

I would consider my picnic blanket to be litter if I forgot to take it with me when I leave .

 

So lets say you left it or your mobile phone or whatever on a train...... would you go to the nearest rubbish dump to see if it were there .....or "lost property" ?

 

Does this mean if I find a wallet with squillions of pounds in the countryside ...I don't need to hand it in to police ...because "Its Litter" ???

 

[+t.a.folk]

Putting a picnic blanket down is "or otherwise deposits". So are you going to consider that litter as well?

No - because you haven't abandoned it, or caused the "defacement of the area by littering".

I would consider my picnic blanket to be litter if I forgot to take it with me when I leave .

 

So lets say you left it or your mobile phone or whatever on a train...... would you go to the nearest rubbish dump to see if it were there .....or "lost property" ?

 

Does this mean if I find a wallet with squillions of pounds in the countryside ...I don't need to hand it in to police ...because "Its Litter" ???

 

 

 

You are correct in picking me up on my words " forgot to take it with me " instead of "don't take it with me".

[+ChaceGuild]

OK, just going back to my original post for a sec...

 

Having sent an email to the local Public Rights of Way team last week, I've received no reply whatsoever Very disappointing, given that the local council workers have regular access to email (I know, I am one), but I also acknowledge that not everyone in our glorious organisation can be bothered.

 

So instead, I've emailed the local Countryside Rangers, as they're always nice people (I've worked with them in the past). Hopefully, they should be able to clarify a few things, and may possibly be able to provide some help with the project

 

As ever, I'll let you all know what happens!

[+cagney37]

My family and I have been caching for about a year. At a guess, I would say that 80% of the caches that we have visited have been set without any prior permission being granted by the various and many landowners - particularly, those placed on Public Rights of Way, major road signs, on railway bridges etc.

 

For my part, I have obtained land owner permission for all my caches; unfortunately, I am considering withdrawing all them as a result of inconsistencies amongst the GC reviewing cadre. Five of my caches were approved last year with a single statement from me that 'I have landowner permission'. When I have tried to place additional caches in the same general area, the reviewer has asked to see the detailed approval. Ironically, last week he approved a cache without the need for this level of reassurance. The landowner that I am dealing with knows that other caches have been set on his land with GAGB consent but without his approval.

 

The issue as I see it is one of rather confusing GAGB guidelines:

 

Ensure the cache container is clearly marked, stating that the content is harmless and giving the placers e-mail address or other contact method (eg GAGB contact phone number)

 

Only items that would be deemed safe and acceptable for an unaccompanied child to find should be placed in a cache.

 

No cache should be placed in such a way as to risk damage or disturbance to any Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) or Scheduled Ancient Monument (SAM)

 

When placing a cache, the onus is on the placer to seek the permission of the landowner.

 

Caches should be placed in a way that they will not be accidentally found by non-geocachers.

 

No items of food or drink of any kind should be placed in the cache.

 

Caches should not be buried. Holes should not be dug in order to place a cache.

 

Caches should not be hidden in animal holes or runs.

 

Cache containers should not be placed inside a polythene bag.

 

Fences should never be crossed (other than through a gate or by a stile) when placing or seeking a cache.

 

No caches should be of a commercial nature, either in location or content.

 

Maintenance of the cache is the responsibility of the placer.

 

When leaving the cache site, after hiding or placing a cache, there should be no visual sign of disturbance.

 

No cache should be placed in or on a dry stone wall.

 

Please do not bring geocaching into disrepute, never drive your car anywhere other than on the highways and byways, and always park legally.

 

Where, for example, do the guidelines state specifically that SSSIs are in a special approval category? Many SSSIs are in AONBs which are marketed for recreational use by the responsible bodies; eg; hiking, mountain biking, horse riding, para-gliding etc. Compared to these types of activities, GCing is hardly like to cause any significant damage!

 

My point is that if the GAGB rules are open to interpretation by the reviewers then there is no hope whatsoever for those of us who can be bothered to set caches. For a start, the sentence 'When placing a cache, the onus is on the placer to seek the permission of the landowner. ' needs to be looked at. What is the level of evidence that is required? Or is this a case of the GAGB just protecting itself?

 

Commonsense must surely apply. The GAGB could protect itself by insisting that all listings contain a sentence to the effect that 'The Cache owner has confirmed to the GAGB/GC.Com that land owner permission has been granted to place this cache.' The responsibility then sits squarely outwith the GAGB.

 

Puts on hard hat, kevlar jacket and withdraws to a safe location.

[+t.a.folk]

quote from above posting

 

"The landowner that I am dealing with knows that other caches have been set on his land with GAGB consent but without his approval."

 

???

[+naffita]

 

The issue as I see it is one of rather confusing GAGB guidelines:

 

(snip)

 

My point is that if the GAGB rules are open to interpretation by the reviewers then there is no hope whatsoever for those of us who can be bothered to set caches. For a start, the sentence 'When placing a cache, the onus is on the placer to seek the permission of the landowner. ' needs to be looked at. What is the level of evidence that is required? Or is this a case of the GAGB just protecting itself?

 

Commonsense must surely apply. The GAGB could protect itself by insisting that all listings contain a sentence to the effect that 'The Cache owner has confirmed to the GAGB/GC.Com that land owner permission has been granted to place this cache.' The responsibility then sits squarely outwith the GAGB.

 

Puts on hard hat, kevlar jacket and withdraws to a safe location.

 

GAGB are in no position to insist on anything. They are a club, who seek to help cachers by giving guidelines and seeking blanket permission from landowners.

The reviewers are bound by Groundspeak's rules and any interpretation of those rules is something that has been frowned on in the past.

[+cagney37]

GAGB are in no position to insist on anything. They are a club, who seek to help cachers by giving guidelines and seeking blanket permission from landowners.

The reviewers are bound by Groundspeak's rules and any interpretation of those rules is something that has been frowned on in the past.

 

I beg to differ. They are insisting on seeing permissions when it suits them to do so and not on other occasions: whatever you choose to call it, this is interpretation of the rules. Most of my caches are situated within an AONB/SSSI with the full permission of the landowners. The issue is one of consistency.

 

If the GAGB is not in a position to insist on anything they should trust people setting caches and not refuse to list. Not all land owners are prepared to sign blanket agreements. In my case, I live 200 yards from the landowner's office and I meet with them as and when required.

 

I refer to my earlier point, where does it state in the GAGB guidelines that the approval for caches set on SSSIs differs from that for caches placed on Rights of Way?

[+Team Noodles]

GAGB are in no position to insist on anything. They are a club, who seek to help cachers by giving guidelines and seeking blanket permission from landowners.

The reviewers are bound by Groundspeak's rules and any interpretation of those rules is something that has been frowned on in the past.

 

I beg to differ. They are insisting on seeing permissions when it suits them to do so and not on other occasions: whatever you choose to call it, this is interpretation of the rules. Most of my caches are situated within an AONB/SSSI with the full permission of the landowners. The issue is one of consistency.

 

If the GAGB is not in a position to insist on anything they should trust people setting caches and not refuse to list. Not all land owners are prepared to sign blanket agreements. In my case, I live 200 yards from the landowner's office and I meet with them as and when required.

 

I refer to my earlier point, where does it state in the GAGB guidelines that the approval for caches set on SSSIs differs from that for caches placed on Rights of Way?

 

GAGB != Groundspeak. I think you might wanna read up on who does what here.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Ryuchan

[+drdick&vick]

There seems to be some confusion here regarding the GAGB and GC.com.

 

The GAGB is an independant association whereas GC.com is the main cach listing site.

The guidelines listed on the GAGB are just that GUIDELINES, also if you read the GAGB Code of Conduct it states at the start 'This is a voluntarycode'.

The GAGB does not approve and list the caches, that is done by GC.com and the volunteer reviewers.

With regards to the placing of caches on SSSI's I would suggest that this is covered by the GC.com section on Off Limit Caches, which is in the Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines

[+cagney37]

There seems to be some confusion here regarding the GAGB and GC.com.

 

The GAGB is an independant association whereas GC.com is the main cach listing site.

The guidelines listed on the GAGB are just that GUIDELINES, also if you read the GAGB Code of Conduct it states at the start 'This is a voluntarycode'.

The GAGB does not approve and list the caches, that is done by GC.com and the volunteer reviewers.

With regards to the placing of caches on SSSI's I would suggest that this is covered by the GC.com section on Off Limit Caches, which is in the Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines

 

I apologize if I do not understand the relationship between the GAGB and GC.Com. If there are guidelines then why is a reviewer insisting on seeing an approval? The paragraph that you refer to states:

 

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location.

 

I would respectfully suggest that your view on the applicability of this paragraph to SSSIs is an interpretation which is the nub of the problem.

 

If it is the case that this paragraph is relevant then I have given the required assurance so what is the problem in getting my caches listed?

 

The problem is that the 'reviewer' pulls the listing lever and therefore his opinion seems to prevail come what may.

[+Pieman]

 

I would respectfully suggest that your view on the applicability of this paragraph to SSSIs is an interpretation which is the nub of the problem.

 

If it is the case that this paragraph is relevant then I have given the required assurance so what is the problem in getting my caches listed?

 

The problem is that the 'reviewer' pulls the listing lever and therefore his opinion seems to prevail come what may.

Groundspeak guidelines can't cover all local situations so the local reviewers interpret them. This covers things such as dry stone walls and SSSIs. Unfortunately, you are never going to get away from this so the reviewers opinion will prevail. Personally, I don't see that as a problem. Where I have been planning caches that I was worried may fall foul of the guidelines I have checked first with the reviewers who have always been very helpful.

 

In the specific case of SSSIs, they are on average going to be in more environmentally sensitive areas than normal so a cache is more likely to cause disturbance; therefore, it seems reasonable to me that the reviewers go further than normal in checking permission has been obtained. I am sure there are SSSIs where a cache placed anywhere would not be a problem but the reviewers aren't to know the detail of every SSSI.

[+cagney37]

Pieman. My final point on this issue.

 

When I placed 5 caches on a SSSI/AONB last year, the reviewer was content with my assurance that I had obtained landowner permission. I was not asked to provide copy of the approval

 

Since then, 3 caches have been placed on the same SSSI - by 3rd parties - but with no landowner approval to do so. I know because I have brought them to the attention of the landowner and I have assured him that they are sound and safe caches.

 

Last week, I placed another cache on the SSSI and it was approved. As a courtesy, I e-mailed the reviewer a copy of the landowner approval after the cache had been listed.

 

This week when I want to place 4 more, the same reviewer got 'cold feet' and he was again making an issue out of it. That said, he has now agreed that I have the necessary approval to place caches.

 

I am struggling to understand why reviewers think that they have the power to act in such a cavalier way. Rules should be applied consistently - this is clearly not the case with GCing reviews. What is the process of Appeal if one was inclined to do so?

 

I am reluctant to continue to place caches - which from logs appear to have given many people a lot of fun - in an AONB which attracts 10s of Thousands of visitors per year.

 

Which party is the loser if people do not place caches? I will leave it to you and others to judge.

[+Graculus]

From the guidelines: By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location and In addition, there may be local regulations already in place for certain types of parks in your region (state parks, county preserves, etc.). There are many local caching organizations that would be able to help you out with those regulations.

 

This means when you list a cache for review you are assuring us that you have adequate permission to hide it. We don't ask for proof unless it falls into one of the 'local regulations'. The GAGB has a list of these. This means if your cache is in a location where a landowner (like the National Trust as an example) has asked that they assess the cache location first and give approval or not then we reviewers will ask to see that you have complied with this request and got the necessary permission. We will always respect the landowners requirements. In the case of SSSI's and SAM's the guideline on the GAGB says, No cache should be placed in such a way as to risk damage or disturbance to any Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) or Scheduled Ancient Monument (SAM). How do we reviewers know whether your cache will damage an SSSI or SAM? We don't. How do we know that you have sufficient knowledge of the environment or archaeology to tell us the location is OK? Again we don't. So we ask that the landowner/manager asses your cache location and you give us proof you have permission to place it there.

 

From the guidelines, A reviewer may request that you provide contact information for the person who gave you permission to hide your cache. You may have provided permission information on the cache(s) you had published a year ago but if you put out a new one in the same location then the reviewers may ask again because we don't go back and check all your caches for what you may have told us previously. The 6 of us cover the whole country so it may be one reviewer who reviews your cache today but next month another reviewer may look at your new cache.

From the guidelines, Most caches that are temporarily put on hold or archived are done so due to a lack of information. Having all the relevant information up front during the review process will help ensure a speedy listing.

 

We don't have 'rules', we have guidelines and these can like any guideline be open to interpretation. Please be assured that if there is any doubt over a cache listing or a cache owner has questioned our opinion or decision then the reviewer concerned will refer it to the rest of the UK team for a second opinion. If that still doesn't satifsy the cache owner we can refer it to the worldwide reviewer community for a third opinion.

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

[+cagney37]

From the guidelines: By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location and In addition, there may be local regulations already in place for certain types of parks in your region (state parks, county preserves, etc.). There are many local caching organizations that would be able to help you out with those regulations.

 

This means when you list a cache for review you are assuring us that you have adequate permission to hide it. We don't ask for proof unless it falls into one of the 'local regulations'. The GAGB has a list of these. This means if your cache is in a location where a landowner (like the National Trust as an example) has asked that they assess the cache location first and give approval or not then we reviewers will ask to see that you have complied with this request and got the necessary permission. We will always respect the landowners requirements. In the case of SSSI's and SAM's the guideline on the GAGB says, No cache should be placed in such a way as to risk damage or disturbance to any Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) or Scheduled Ancient Monument (SAM). How do we reviewers know whether your cache will damage an SSSI or SAM? We don't. How do we know that you have sufficient knowledge of the environment or archaeology to tell us the location is OK? Again we don't. So we ask that the landowner/manager asses your cache location and you give us proof you have permission to place it there.

 

From the guidelines, A reviewer may request that you provide contact information for the person who gave you permission to hide your cache. You may have provided permission information on the cache(s) you had published a year ago but if you put out a new one in the same location then the reviewers may ask again because we don't go back and check all your caches for what you may have told us previously. The 6 of us cover the whole country so it may be one reviewer who reviews your cache today but next month another reviewer may look at your new cache.

From the guidelines, Most caches that are temporarily put on hold or archived are done so due to a lack of information. Having all the relevant information up front during the review process will help ensure a speedy listing.

 

We don't have 'rules', we have guidelines and these can like any guideline be open to interpretation. Please be assured that if there is any doubt over a cache listing or a cache owner has questioned our opinion or decision then the reviewer concerned will refer it to the rest of the UK team for a second opinion. If that still doesn't satifsy the cache owner we can refer it to the worldwide reviewer community for a third opinion.

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

 

Sadly, this is not the whole story. I received this message today regarding my 4 latest caches:

 

Quote The UK Reviewers have only recently gained the specialised access to MAGIC-Multi Agency Geographic Information for the Countryside, a UK Government owned and run website. This provides a single resource for locating Land Designations, previously to this that meant accessing multiple web sites for each cache. As unpaid Volunteers who give up their free time to review caches. This was not practical for every cache, so many issues were not spotted during review.

 

With the usage of MAGIC, the UK Reviewers are catching 99.5% of all land designation issues. When we brought in MAGIC, we decided that we would follow Site Policy regarding Guideline/Policy Changes. Treating all published caches up to that time as being Grandfathered In.

 

In regards to areas designated as SSSI or Nature Reserves, we have a policy even where there is a Blanket Agreement in place. To require Permission be actually obtained, even when not required by the Agreement. This is due to several incidences involving Landowners with Blanket Agreements.

 

In on case a cache located in a park under a Blanket Agreement with the local Council, was treated in the same way your caches have been. Due to the Park being designated a SSSI. The cache in question happened to be located up a tree, in which Bats were roosting. As these are a Protected species, disturbing them can result in a fine of up to £20,000.

 

Another case being on Snowdon. The mountain is owned by CCW the Welsh Assemblies Department responsible for Designated areas within Wales. They have no objections to caches on Snowdon, however they refused permission for one cache. Due to the location being home to a rare protected plant.

 

From the above we require actual permission for Designated areas, so as to avoid serious issues. Unquote

 

I was pleased to get this clarification; however, it does not address the issue of where is the policy laid down so that potential cache owners can steer away from placing caches within SSSIs? Is it reasonable to expect a landowner to assess every cache as you suggest? Note that this is not even mentioned in the message above.

 

The UK Reviewers need to get their collective act together and update the Guidelines. Not to do so is generating extra work for everyone: more importantly, it is implying that setting caches is difficult when it need not be.

[+Graculus]

<snip>I was pleased to get this clarification; however, it does not address the issue of where is the policy laid down so that potential cache owners can steer away from placing caches within SSSIs? Is it reasonable to expect a landowner to assess every cache as you suggest? Note that this is not even mentioned in the message above.

You should not steer clear of SSSI's just because you need to get permission - of the caches I review that are in SSSI's many cache owners are able to successfully and easily get permission.

 

Do landowners check every request for permission? Yes they appear to do so. The National Trust, the Forestry Commission and Woodland Trust all do and in just about every case are happy for the caches to go ahead and give permission. It is quite rare to get a refusal.

 

With regard to why the GAGB guideline doesn't specifically say, "Thou shalt not place caches in SSSI's without permission" then you may want to read this thread in the GAGB forum where this very subject was discussed in some detail.

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

[Pajaholic]

With regard to why the GAGB guideline doesn't specifically say, "Thou shalt not place caches in SSSI's without permission" then you may want to read this thread in the GAGB forum where this very subject was discussed in some detail.

I was interested, but I suspect that discussion was limited to the cognoscenti since when I tried to follow your link I got:

Pajaholic

, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
   
   
2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
   
   

Geoff

[Neath Worthies]

As has been explained GAGB have formulated a set of suggestions relevant to the situation in the UK. Groundspeak who own this forum and the Geocaching.com website set the rules and decide what can and cant be listed on the geocaching.com website. A team of local volunteers vet all applications and apply those rules and take into consideration the GAGB suggestions but are not bound by them.

 

You have two realistic options:

 

1) Accept what the local volunteers say and publish your cache on geocaching.com

2) Decide to list your cache elsewhere

 

AFAIK its not permitted to mention other local listing sites here but if you're determined you'll find a link somewhere.

 

GAGB have no infulence over Groundspeak.

[+cagney37]

As has been explained GAGB have formulated a set of suggestions relevant to the situation in the UK. Groundspeak who own this forum and the Geocaching.com website set the rules and decide what can and cant be listed on the geocaching.com website. A team of local volunteers vet all applications and apply those rules and take into consideration the GAGB suggestions but are not bound by them.

 

You have two realistic options:

 

1) Accept what the local volunteers say and publish your cache on geocaching.com

2) Decide to list your cache elsewhere

 

AFAIK its not permitted to mention other local listing sites here but if you're determined you'll find a link somewhere.

 

GAGB have no infulence over Groundspeak.

 

Sadly, none of this squares my particular circle. I have a landowner who is happy for me to set caches within a SSI/AONB and tell him about them afterwards, and a GC reviewer who wants me to clear the location and siting of each cache that I set with the landowner prior to it being listed. I fail to see how the reviewer or GC.com is at any legal risk if a cache is placed in an inappropriate place; eg, in the middle of a bat colony.

Edited March 17, 2010 by cagney37

[+Graculus]

With regard to why the GAGB guideline doesn't specifically say, "Thou shalt not place caches in SSSI's without permission" then you may want to read this thread in the GAGB forum where this very subject was discussed in some detail.

I was interested, but I suspect that discussion was limited to the cognoscenti since when I tried to follow your link I got:

Pajaholic

, you do not have permission to access this page. Geoff

 

My apologies, I should have said the thread was in the GAGB members only section.

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website

www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk

[Deceangi]

As has been explained GAGB have formulated a set of suggestions relevant to the situation in the UK. Groundspeak who own this forum and the Geocaching.com website set the rules and decide what can and cant be listed on the geocaching.com website. A team of local volunteers vet all applications and apply those rules and take into consideration the GAGB suggestions but are not bound by them.

 

You have two realistic options:

 

1) Accept what the local volunteers say and publish your cache on geocaching.com

2) Decide to list your cache elsewhere

 

AFAIK its not permitted to mention other local listing sites here but if you're determined you'll find a link somewhere.

 

GAGB have no infulence over Groundspeak.

 

Sadly, none of this squares my particular circle. I have a landowner who is happy for me to set caches within a SSI/AONB and tell him about them afterwards, and a GC reviewer who wants me to clear the location and siting of each cache that I set with the landowner prior to it being listed. I fail to see how the reviewer or GC.com is at any legal risk if a cache is placed in an inappropriate place; eg, in the middle of a bat colony.

 

Two points. if you going to quote a email from me in the forums, please attribute that email to me, and advice me that you have done so.

 

Secondly, you have missed the point about the Bats in the Tree. The point being that the cacher did not know about them until he had actually asked the Landowner [the Council] for permission. By then he had already climbed the tree to place the container. If he had asked the Landowner before placing the container, he would not have placed himself at risk of a possible prosecution. Or alternatively alienated a supportive Landowner, who had not full thought through the consequences of a blanket agreement covering SSSI's.

 

Neither my colleagues or myself, or you unless your actively involved in the management of the SSSI. Will know if the location you have chosen is a extremely sensitive one. As I pointed out in the email, CCW who are the Designating Authority in Wales, are happy for caches to be placed on Snowdon. And have only refused one cache there, due to the plant life there being extremely sensitive and protected. CCW as the Landowner were aware of this fact.

 

Unlike the other activities you've quoted , Geocaching tends to take people to out of the way locations. Meaning that there is a greater risk of encountering a sensitive location.

 

One question, why are you so vehemently objecting to contacting the Landowner, who is quite happy for you to place caches. To confirm that the location is ok for a Geocache, before placing the container. When you actually have to contact that them any way, to inform them of the placement. Does it make any difference if contact is made before or after placement?

 

And requiring Permission be obtained before Publication. Has absolutely nothing to do with any Legal issue against Groundspeak or it's Volunteer Reviewers. But is in fact all about the best interest, of Geocaching in the UK! This has been developed over the last 8-9 years the UK has had local Reviewers, and will continue to be developed into the future.

 

Deci

[Pajaholic]

My apologies, I should have said the thread was in the GAGB members only section.

Thanks. However, I am a GAGB member (signed up last November) and I've just checked on the GAGB website that I'm a full member and not just a forum member. That's why I thought the thread might be in a section reserved for the cognoscenti!

 

Geoff

[+drdick&vick]

My apologies, I should have said the thread was in the GAGB members only section.

Thanks. However, I am a GAGB member (signed up last November) and I've just checked on the GAGB website that I'm a full member and not just a forum member. That's why I thought the thread might be in a section reserved for the cognoscenti!

 

Geoff

 

Hi Geoff

I have just been into the records and corrected the problem that was stopping you viewing the thread in question. If you use the link now you should be able to read it. If not please cotact me.

Cheers

Richard

[+ChaceGuild]

Graculus & Deci - thank you kindly for your very well structured, and highly informative posts on the matters raised

 

Some people seem to be getting quite tied up over the issue of gaining permissions, and it seems quite silly of them, given that even I as a complete newbie have asked about it and received brilliant responses

 

Getting back on topic for a while...

 

The local town council's secretary, who responded blindingly fast to my email, has kindly said that it's not something they can deal with and has forwarded my request to the local borough council! Thankfully, someone from the latter's PRoW team had emailed me back earlier, and gave a much satisfying response:

Their basic message was - you're fine to place caches along our PRoW network

 

Given that all of this information was transported via email, it will be very easy to provide evidence should the final reviewer request it, and it has proved to me that the process is relatively simple!

 

So just for reference - Doncaster Metropolitan Borough Council (DMBC)'s "Public Rights of Way" (PRoW) team have given me blanket permission to place caches on the local PRoW network. If anyone is interested in placing a cache on it anywhere, I can ask them for a formal "Blanket Agreement" to post up.

Edited March 17, 2010 by ChaceGuild

[+keehotee]

So just for reference - Doncaster Metropolitan Borough Council (DMBC)'s "Public Rights of Way" (PRoW) team have given me blanket permission to place caches on the local PRoW network. If anyone is interested in placing a cache on it anywhere, I can ask them for a formal "Blanket Agreement" to post up.

 

Probably a silly question - but how can they give you blanket permission to place caches on land they don't own?

 

A public right of way gives the public the right to "pass and repass" along a path, and not to perform any recreational activity. As far as I know a PRoW team will administer the definitive map and deal with issues on the PRoW network (blocked paths, landowner issues etc) - but unless those paths are owned by DMBC, the PRoW team would be in no position to override a landowners wishes on any matter except rights of way?

Edited March 18, 2010 by keehotee

[Pajaholic]

Hi Geoff

I have just been into the records and corrected the problem that was stopping you viewing the thread in question. If you use the link now you should be able to read it. If not please cotact me.

Cheers

Richard

Hi Richard, and thanks.

 

That thread makes interesting reading and tells me that our reviewers are doing all they can to ensure we can place as many caches as Groundspeak's rules permit and without bringing caching into disrepute. I can now see the reasons why there are no stated "hard and fast rules" WRT permission for SSSIs and SAMs. Yet from reading that thread I have a very strong feeling that reviewers treat all cache submissions fairly and consistently.

 

Geoff

[+Graculus]

This is for cagney37 who raised the issue about being asked for permission details. As you've already got an agreement with the conservators of the AONB to place caches there without seeking prior permission it would be very useful to have a formal agreement to place in the GAGB landowner database so other cachers know that caching in the AONB is approved. I'm sure this would be appreciated by everyone. It would also be helpful to us reviewers as then we wouldn't need to ask for proof of permission each time but just check the cache meets the agreement and so can be published. If a map of the boundary of the AONB can be obtained I can create a Google maps overlay for the GAGB database so everyone can see the exact location.

So may I suggest that you approach your contact and see if such an agreement can be negotiated?

 

Chris

Graculus

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk