Question to answer vs reference point

[toczygroszek]

As I see some cachers mark their virtual waypoints as "question to answer" and some as "reference point". What is the difference between these waypoints? Sometimes people use "reference point" as just interesting spot but not necessary to find a cache. Didn't find much in "knowlegdebase" about it, except information that you can use both types as waypoints in multi-cache.

 

Any suggestions/clarifications/ideas/experiences?

[+Renegade Knight]

In surveying a reference point is a known point that you can use to find the more important point of interest. They guide the way to the real deal.

 

In geocaching, it beats me how it's being used other than I'd draw on the survey version and think that this reference point should be telling me something about how to find the cache.

[+Okiebryan]

Here is my understanding of it...

 

A reference point could be a metal tag with coords hanging from a fencepost. In other words, here is something to find with coords, but it's not a container like "stages of a multi" would be.

 

A question to answer is more like a puzzle point... lok at this location for information that will let you solve for the coords.

 

That's how I understand it to be from the guidelines. Your understanding (and mileage) may vary.

[+Cache O'Plenty]

A real guess here but I think I'd interpret a "reference point" as a set of coordinates, say for "parking" or "trailhead" or some such (although I know there are those types of waypoints used here as well). I'm not sure I've even seen "reference point" used. I do think the "metal tag" idea has merit since there isn't any physical cache here but I question whether the "tag" is a stage of a multicache since you do have to find something.

 

A "question to answer" waypoint, to me, would be coordinates of a placque or sign where I'd have to extract some information in order to get a new set of coordinates or information to put into some equation. In effect, it's a virtual location (no cache) and thus not subject to the proximity rules.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Cache O'Plenty

[toczygroszek]

 

A reference point could be a metal tag with coords hanging from a fencepost. In other words, here is something to find with coords, but it's not a container like "stages of a multi" would be.

 

No, reference point is virtual waypoint. Metal tag is definitely "stage of multicache" (physical stage) what you can read in guidelines.

 

The only text in knowledgebase I found is:

 

For virtual waypoints in puzzles and multi's, you can choose to code them as "question to answer" or "reference point" -- in which case the virtual waypoints can be closer than 528 feet from another cache -- or as "stages of a multicache" -- in which case your special virtual location will be protected from having a physical cache placed nearby.

Edited October 29, 2009 by toczygroszek

[+Prime Suspect]

As I see some cachers mark their virtual waypoints as "question to answer" and some as "reference point". What is the difference between these waypoints? Sometimes people use "reference point" as just interesting spot but not necessary to find a cache. Didn't find much in "knowlegdebase" about it, except information that you can use both types as waypoints in multi-cache.

 

Any suggestions/clarifications/ideas/experiences?

A Reference Point is just an interesting area you want to draw attention to, or perhaps a handy location for the cacher to have (a bridge over a creek, for example). Caches can be found without needing the Reference Points.

 

Question to Answer (QtA), is a virtual cache stage, and must be visited in order to complete the cache, because it contains information that eventually leads you to the cache. Getting a date from an historical plaque, and adding a number to it to get coordinates, is an example of a QtA. It is the same as a multi-cache stage, except that the stage is an existing object, rather than something placed by the CO, and it doesn't have the same proximity protection that a physical cache stage does (with a few exceptions).

[+wimseyguy]

Reference point= trail head, trail split, something of interest to look at on the way to finding the cache.

Stage of a Multi=anything placed by the CO-tag/container

Question to Answer=stage of a multi/puzzle that involves anything already in place and isn't put there by the CO-historical marker, # of panes in a window/colors on the trail blaze, etc.

 

At least that is my understanding of how the options should be applied.

 

There may be a few rare instances where the object in the Q2A deserves to have 528' of protection around it where another cache cannot be placed. In those cases coding it as a Stage of a Multi would be appropriate.

YMMV

[toczygroszek]

A Reference Point is just an interesting area you want to draw attention to, or perhaps a handy location for the cacher to have (a bridge over a creek, for example). Caches can be found without needing the Reference Points.

 

And that I thought till last week when I found this:

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/Support/ind...325&nav=0,5

 

* For a complex cache, you could have entries for the parking area, trailhead, questions to answer, stages of a multicache, as well as the final location.

* For a traditional cache, you might want to enter the parking area and/or the trailhead.

* For a puzzle/mystery cache or a multicache, it will be necessary to make an entry for each stage and for the final cache location.

* For virtual waypoints in puzzles and multi's, you can choose to code them as "question to answer" or "reference point" -- in which case the virtual waypoints can be closer than 528 feet from another cache -- or as "stages of a multicache" -- in which case your special virtual location will be protected from having a physical cache placed nearby.

 

So it looks is waypoint for multis only and you can use it as virtual stage. And that told me reviewer when I asked him. And I was confused, because last 2 years I thought "reference point" is just like POI. And now I'm more confused, because you told me that what I exactly thought before. And I know multi-caches where waypoints are set as "reference points"

 

I know it doesn't really matter because both waypoints are virtual (and is no proximity limit), but now is little bit of mess with this.

[+niraD]

In practical terms, there isn't much difference between a Question to Answer and a Reference Point. They're both virtual locations that are ignored for the saturation guidelines.

 

As others have said, Stages of a Multicache applies to anything physical that the cache owner places, whether it's a container, a tag with information on it, or anything else. Stages of a Multicache can also be used for virtual waypoints if the CO wants the saturation guidelines to apply to them.

 

Question to Answer would be a location where the seeker gets information from existing objects (historical plaques, fenceposts, public scupltures, whatever...).

 

A Reference Point is anything else. Parking Area and Trailhead already have their own waypoint types, but Reference Point could be appropriate for some of the other suggestions (e.g., a bridge, a fork in the trail, a point of interest). I've also seen Reference Point used in puzzle caches, when puzzle solvers use the coordinates of virtual locations to determine the solution. There isn't anything of interest at those virtual locations; they're just coordinates that are needed to solve the puzzle.

[+Prime Suspect]

A Reference Point is just an interesting area you want to draw attention to, or perhaps a handy location for the cacher to have (a bridge over a creek, for example). Caches can be found without needing the Reference Points.

 

And that I thought till last week when I found this:

 

http://support.Groundspeak.com/Support/ind...325&nav=0,5

 

* For a complex cache, you could have entries for the parking area, trailhead, questions to answer, stages of a multicache, as well as the final location.

* For a traditional cache, you might want to enter the parking area and/or the trailhead.

* For a puzzle/mystery cache or a multicache, it will be necessary to make an entry for each stage and for the final cache location.

* For virtual waypoints in puzzles and multi's, you can choose to code them as "question to answer" or "reference point" -- in which case the virtual waypoints can be closer than 528 feet from another cache -- or as "stages of a multicache" -- in which case your special virtual location will be protected from having a physical cache placed nearby.

 

So it looks is waypoint for multis only and you can use it as virtual stage. And that told me reviewer when I asked him. And I was confused, because last 2 years I thought "reference point" is just like POI. And now I'm more confused, because you told me that what I exactly thought before. And I know multi-caches where waypoints are set as "reference points"

 

I know it doesn't really matter because both waypoints are virtual (and is no proximity limit), but now is little bit of mess with this.

I think the section you quoted is probably in error. For example, the same article also says:

Example 2: If a puzzle cache starts off with an information gathering stage from a sign at the posted coordinates, you do not need to create an "Question to Answer" waypoint called "SIGN." The feature is programmed to reject additional waypoints which match the cache's posted coordinates.

which is incorrect. If your initial coordinates are virtual, you CAN create a Question to Answer waypoint at the same coordinates to indicate there's nothing physical placed there.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Prime Suspect

[+rob3k]

 

* For virtual waypoints in puzzles and multi's, you can choose ...[snip]... "stages of a multicache" -- in which case your special virtual location will be protected from having a physical cache placed nearby.

 

 

Ooo, that's not good IMO. Didn't know that was in the official guidelines.

[+DarkZen]

 

* For virtual waypoints in puzzles and multi's, you can choose ...[snip]... "stages of a multicache" -- in which case your special virtual location will be protected from having a physical cache placed nearby.

 

 

Ooo, that's not good IMO. Didn't know that was in the official guidelines.

It is and it's caused me problems in the past.

Also a clarification point, if the first stage of a multi is a pre-existing feature (sign, marker, etc) it does not need to fall farther than the 528 ft boundry of existing caches. If it is a marker that you are placing it will need to.

[toczygroszek]

http://support.Groundspeak.com/Support/ind...325&nav=0,5

 

Fatal error: ERROR: You are not allowed to view this article or the article does not exist. in E:\Inetpub\Kayako\Support\modules\knowledgebase\client_knowledgebase.php on line 150

 

It looks this article will be reissue...