How can I eliminate/reduce lost bugs at an event I'm hosting?

4.2k · January 29, 2009

After recently watching one of my bugs get sucked into a black hole at an event and having seen it happen before with other trackables I'd like to know what methods you've seen for reducing/eliminating this problem at events.

I'm going to be hosting an event in late March and I'd like to not contribute to the problem if at all possible. I know that ultimately, the it's the cacher that picks up the trackable at the event and never logs the find that is the source of the problem and that I can't control their actions or events in their lives that may prevent them from logging the find, but I'm hoping that some of you have seen some really effective solutions for event-related bug and coin loss.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Castle Mischief

22k · January 29, 2009

...(Heads off to find Snoogans)

January 29, 2009

Perhaps a signout sheet nearby so that if someone takes a trackable they sign up saying what they took. That way you, as the event host, could follow up on the trackables and if they're not logged, you can send a friendly reminder. Maybe set up the sheet with a sign in for who brought the trackable and then sign out for who takes it home. After setting up a sheet, I'd mention it on the event page so that folks dropping and taking trackables know what to do.

I know the feeling because I had a bug that wasn't logged until a good month after an event that it was dropped. I thought it was gone for good, but fortunately someone finally logged it.

January 29, 2009

Hello. I'm pretty much a newbie here so I know I'm not an expert or anything, but here's my 2 cents. I don't understand what would make somebody want to take a trackable to an event. I haven't been to an event yet, but my understanding is all the TBs get put in a container of some sort and then people just take those they are supposedly going to move along (and lots end up going MIA from what I've read)? To me that is at best negligent. If I pick up a TB I feel it's my responsibility to make 100% sure it gets put into a cache in a reasonable timeframe. If I grab one near my home and throw it in a container at an event with a bunch of others I'm being totally unresponsible. I certainly hope nobody would ever show so little concern about my TBs as to take one to an event. The solution is so simple I'm amazed it wasn't mandated long ago. If you are having an event then having a container for the exchange of TBs should be prohibited. That solves the problem. Why do event sponsors feel they need to assist others in being irresponsible with other peoples property? I feel the person who initially picks up a TB is the one who should be responsible. If that person will not be responsible with TBs why would an event put out a container to encourage such lack of concern for others properties. I just don't understand why the geocaching community lets this kind of irresponsible behavior continue!!! :laughing:

Edited January 29, 2009 by Michigan Cacheman

22k · January 29, 2009

Now we all know that it is extremely unlikely gc.com is going to prohibit people taking travel bugs to events. And whether or not we agree with the practice of taking them, people are going to do it so you might as well try to facilitate the process so bugs are less likely to fall through the cracks. Or you can host an event and say I am not responsible for travel bugs. Either is fine.

Personally I've never really seen an event assist a travel bug any better than simply leaving it in a cache.

January 29, 2009

Now we all know that it is extremely unlikely gc.com is going to prohibit people taking travel bugs to events. And whether or not we agree with the practice of taking them, people are going to do it so you might as well try to facilitate the process so bugs are less likely to fall through the cracks. Or you can host an event and say I am not responsible for travel bugs. Either is fine.

Personally I've never really seen an event assist a travel bug any better than simply leaving it in a cache.

BlueDeuce I read lots of your Forum answers and have learned a lot from you so I don't want to appear disrespectful in any way, but I have to disagree with you on this one. To me trying to facilitate irresponsible behavior makes no sense. If I know it's a problem and I encourage it then I am part of the problem. It's like saying somebody encouraging a drunk to drive is not at fault too. I know DWI is a million more times more serious than TBs going missing, but it's still encouraging irresponsible behavior. That's my 2 cents and I'll shut up on this topic now and let others put in their say. BTW BlueDeuce thanks for steering me to where I could get a corner trimmer for trimming corners on laminated TB cards. I finally bought it yesterday and will be using it in about 10 minutes. Happy caching everybody!

4.2k · January 29, 2009

Hello. I'm pretty much a newbie here so I know I'm not an expert or anything, but here's my 2 cents. I don't understand what would make somebody want to take a trackable to an event. I haven't been to an event yet, but my understanding is all the TBs get put in a container of some sort and then people just take those they are supposedly going to move along (and lots end up going MIA from what I've read)? To me that is at best negligent. If I pick up a TB I feel it's my responsibility to make 100% sure it gets put into a cache in a reasonable timeframe. If I grab one near my home and throw it in a container at an event with a bunch of others I'm being totally unresponsible. I certainly hope nobody would ever show so little concern about my TBs as to take one to an event. The solution is so simple I'm amazed it wasn't mandated long ago. If you are having an event then having a container for the exchange of TBs should be prohibited. That solves the problem. Why do event sponsors feel they need to assist others in being irresponsible with other peoples property? I feel the person who initially picks up a TB is the one who should be responsible. If that person will not be responsible with TBs why would an event put out a container to encourage such lack of concern for others properties. I just don't understand why the geocaching community lets this kind of irresponsible behavior continue!!!

Like Blue Deuce said, having a spot to drop the TBs will not prevent folks from taking them to events and swapping them. While I agree, clearly, that there seems to be a higher correlation to lost TBs and events I don't think the responsibility lies solely with the person that drops off the TB. There are these other containers that I find in the woods that other people have just tossed TBs and coins into- they're called geocaches. When my bug gets lost in these I don't blame the dropper. I'm not going to blame the dropper at an event either.

Actually, while it may be negligent behavior by definition on the part of the finder that never logs or logs then keeps a bug I'm not really going to "blame" them either. When you release a bug you accept that it could go missing.

January 29, 2009

Hello. I'm pretty much a newbie here so I know I'm not an expert or anything, but here's my 2 cents. I don't understand what would make somebody want to take a trackable to an event. I haven't been to an event yet, but my understanding is all the TBs get put in a container of some sort and then people just take those they are supposedly going to move along (and lots end up going MIA from what I've read)? To me that is at best negligent. If I pick up a TB I feel it's my responsibility to make 100% sure it gets put into a cache in a reasonable timeframe. If I grab one near my home and throw it in a container at an event with a bunch of others I'm being totally unresponsible. I certainly hope nobody would ever show so little concern about my TBs as to take one to an event. The solution is so simple I'm amazed it wasn't mandated long ago. If you are having an event then having a container for the exchange of TBs should be prohibited. That solves the problem. Why do event sponsors feel they need to assist others in being irresponsible with other peoples property? I feel the person who initially picks up a TB is the one who should be responsible. If that person will not be responsible with TBs why would an event put out a container to encourage such lack of concern for others properties. I just don't understand why the geocaching community lets this kind of irresponsible behavior continue!!!

Like Blue Deuce said, having a spot to drop the TBs will not prevent folks from taking them to events and swapping them. While I agree, clearly, that there seems to be a higher correlation to lost TBs and events I don't think the responsibility lies solely with the person that drops off the TB. There are these other containers that I find in the woods that other people have just tossed TBs and coins into- they're called geocaches. When my bug gets lost in these I don't blame the dropper. I'm not going to blame the dropper at an event either.

Actually, while it may be negligent behavior by definition on the part of the finder that never logs or logs then keeps a bug I'm not really going to "blame" them either. When you release a bug you accept that it could go missing.

Hi Castle Mischief. OK, you've got me thinking with your reference to TBs going missing in caches in the woods and not blaming the dropper. I think that upon further review I'm going to back down from my previous call for a ban on TB containers for swapping TBs at events. You and BlueDeuce are correct and I was wrong. Thanks for the education. Happy caching.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Michigan Cacheman

4.2k · January 29, 2009

Perhaps a signout sheet nearby so that if someone takes a trackable they sign up saying what they took. That way you, as the event host, could follow up on the trackables and if they're not logged, you can send a friendly reminder. Maybe set up the sheet with a sign in for who brought the trackable and then sign out for who takes it home. After setting up a sheet, I'd mention it on the event page so that folks dropping and taking trackables know what to do.

I know the feeling because I had a bug that wasn't logged until a good month after an event that it was dropped. I thought it was gone for good, but fortunately someone finally logged it.

I'll be doing this at the very least. I've also considered using a bicycle lock or a chain and lock to run all the TBs through (wouldn't work for some/most coins) and only turning over a bug for further travels after the person has signed it out. There's a fine line between being a cautious host and being a ruthless Travel Bug Nazi. (Did you sign sheet? No? NO BUG FOR YOU.) Surely somebody has meditated on this and reached a perfect balance that made most of the cachers happy.

4.2k · January 29, 2009

Hi Castle Mischief. OK, you've got me thinking with your reference to TBs going missing in caches in the woods and not blaming the dropper. I think that upon further review I'm going to back down from my previous call for a ban on TB containers for swapping TBs at events. You and BlueDeuce are correct and I was wrong. Thanks for the education. Happy caching.

My internet sarcasm detector blew out during the last election so I'm sure how to take the rolleyes emote you tacked on the end of your post.

What I'm about to tell you I can only do so because I haven't just lost your TB or your Geocoin: Trackables released into the wild are not your precious babies. They are not the souls of your ancestors, nor are they the love of dedicated partner. When you drop it into that first cache to release it- let it go.

(The two coins my wife got me for X-mas however are my precious and I will love them and pet them and put them under my pillow to keep them safe from the filthy hobbitses. However, I haven't released them either.)

But I can't assume that everybody else feels the same to I'm trying to avoid being part of the problem at my future event- to the extent that's realistic.

22k · January 29, 2009

To me trying to facilitate irresponsible behavior makes no sense. If I know it's a problem and I encourage it then I am part of the problem.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I don't feel like I am a passive participant in travel bugs getting lost by hosting an event and allowing people to bring bugs. And I don't feel like an active participant by setting up some control measures concerning travel bugs. I feel I have zero impact on whether or not a bug goes missing regardless of what I do.

Do I think having people sign out bugs will make a difference? Not really. I think the main problem is that bugs are being made easily available to people who probably wouldn't have pick up a bug in the wild. I haven't come across any real method to only allow bugs to be taken by people who can be counted to move them.

People are going to bring bugs to events, there's nothing I can or will do about that. And there is no way I am going to accept that I am part of the problem for how other people mis-handle bugs. And I think that saying the solution is no bugs allowed is a cop out answer.

January 29, 2009

Hey Castle Mischief. The rolleyeyes were not meant to be sarcastic. I just felt real silly having to admit to the whole world I was not to brilliant and I thought the rolleyeyes looked silly too so that was why I chose them to kind of match how I was feeling. It didn't occur to me that they could have been interpretted the way you wondered about. I guess I've learned a couple things today. Now that I've explained my last goof up I'm getting out of here and will just come back later to see if I can learn some more. Sorry if I came across wrong. Good luck with your event and happy caching! :laughing:

2.3k · January 29, 2009

The only way, the only guarranteed way, to elimiinate lost bugs at an event is to "not host an event". :laughing:

January 29, 2009

How big is the event? If it's only a few dozen people, and you know most of them personally, perhaps you could just send everyone a friendly email a few days afterwards - thanks for attending, hope you had fun, don't forget to log any bugs, etc. Of course if there are hundreds of people, that's impractical. Otherwise, just let the bugs come and go and hope for the best. We're really all mature, thoughtful, intelligent people, who just happen to have lousy memories.

1.3k · January 29, 2009

Events can be a great way to help bugs move toward their goals!

I usually won't drop a bug into a box of bugs (but I will root through the box to see if there's anyone I can help) but rather seek out a cacher who can help. I've never had somebody that I handed a bug directly to, forget to log it :laughing:

2.4k · January 29, 2009

Hi Castle Mischief. OK, you've got me thinking with your reference to TBs going missing in caches in the woods and not blaming the dropper. I think that upon further review I'm going to back down from my previous call for a ban on TB containers for swapping TBs at events. You and BlueDeuce are correct and I was wrong. Thanks for the education. Happy caching.

Hi there... I think (at first glance, anyhow) that you have finally hit the nail on the head...

the original question was how best to reduce the chances of trackables dissappearing into 'somewhere'.

For those of us who have attempted to solve some of the mysteries involved, one thing seems to be clear.

There are far to many cachers who don't grasp the fundamentals of logging caches and trackables.

So perhaps we should be doing more about that... as well as helping recover some...

I'd vote for a process for educating everyone (newbies and old hands), on the process of logging.

People don't seem to grasp the concept of describing what they do at a cache... took this, left that, in some

small detail... (not tracking numbers of course)... the details help track down mistakes and oversights...

I just did one easy cleanup of a goof... and discovered that someone else simply logs taking and dropping in the cache log but not the trackable logs...

and that is only one of several done by others lately, and continuously... Experienced cachers wait to clear high volumes... we know that... personally I understand

the possible reasons but it doesn't happen the way I do my few caches... but the key is to log it out of and into caches before you forget it...

and the more you do the more likely you'll blow at least one.

Again we are all supposed to know this, aren't we... it's in the FAQS... and it certainly appears time after time in the forums...

So set up a display to help spread the word at events...

A simple poster of the techniques should not be hard to make or procure... That alone would help get people thinking about

it, new and old. Include the need for mission tags on TBs if they have one, and photos of the coin/tb

to aid in locating an errant one... and other unique identification marks... Tags and travellers get separated.

One could even ponder the circumstances of posting a Missing Trackables Board,

it would be interesting to see how long before a few 'missing' TBs and GCs showed up in a collection...

Someone could also speak to that end...

that there are indeed collectables and travellers and they should not get intermingled.

Anyway your comment on education along with friendly encouragement should provide some good results.

The more who give and receive a bit of knowledge, the better the pastime will be at all levels.

This isn't policing, but educating... we do it here and in the field, classes, why not events... and club sessions.

Seems to me it's a good thing micros and nanos exist... no trackables to deal with... I'm not sure I will ever

put one out there... caring for others pieces seems a full time task.

Of course it will mean a few less mysteries to play with off season... darn it all...

Guess there will always be technical problems and puzzles..

Doug

4.2k · January 30, 2009

<snip>So set up a display to help spread the word at events...

A simple poster of the techniques should not be hard to make or procure... That alone would help get people thinking about

it, new and old. Include the need for mission tags on TBs if they have one, and photos of the coin/tb

to aid in locating an errant one... and other unique identification marks... Tags and travellers get separated.

<snip>

Now you have me thinking... I've seen a few iterations of hand-outs and info cards that that are designed to inform the average muggle on what geocaching is. Maybe there should be a similar hand-out/info card/brochure for trackable items. Or maybe there are already is. If there isn't, there should be. That might be my new pet project when I get home...

22k · January 30, 2009

<snip>So set up a display to help spread the word at events...

A simple poster of the techniques should not be hard to make or procure... That alone would help get people thinking about

it, new and old. Include the need for mission tags on TBs if they have one, and photos of the coin/tb

to aid in locating an errant one... and other unique identification marks... Tags and travellers get separated.

<snip>

Now you have me thinking... I've seen a few iterations of hand-outs and info cards that that are designed to inform the average muggle on what geocaching is. Maybe there should be a similar hand-out/info card/brochure for trackable items. Or maybe there are already is. If there isn't, there should be. That might be my new pet project when I get home...

Some club in Missouri has one. I'll link it when I get home in a coupe hours. I can't remember who it was but I have an email from them on my home PC.

22k · January 30, 2009

Okay I found the site St. Louis Area Geocachers Association but I can't find the doc on their webpage.

They did send me a word doc with the info so if you want to email or PM me your email address I can forward it you.

4.2k · January 30, 2009

Okay I found the site St. Louis Area Geocachers Association but I can't find the doc on their webpage.

They did send me a word doc with the info so if you want to email or PM me your email address I can forward it you.

Just send it to the one that I list in my profile: king(at)castlemischief(dot)com (Obfuscated for email trawling spam bots.)

Thank you very much!

Here's a line I'm putting at the end of my event listing. Maybe it will help.

If you are bringing Travel Bugs or Geocoins to the event, please place them in one of the two provided bins labeled “discover only” or “take me home and log me on the website or so help me I’ll run your GPS unit over with my minivan”.

January 30, 2009

I agree that there may be newbies that just don't know that they should be logging. I recently had a large bug go missing from my cache. I have a whole family that signed my log book, but they never logged their find on the website. Since the person before them was the one that left the bug and the finders after them were veteran cachers who are friends of mine that I know would have logged properly, they have to be the ones that took it. Since the bug was a big furry monkey, I'm afraid one of their kids kept it. Maybe they didn't even realize what the little metal tag meant. Hard to say.

10.1k · January 30, 2009

AARGH! EEEP! UMMMM... :antenna:

Education! That's the solution!!!! While events do seem to have the added disadantage of people grabbing bugs and forgetting them in their pack, the major problem is that people do not know how to log them properly. (Had someone grab a TB from an event before I got home to log it into the event. "Well. You didn't log it properly. You should have logged it into the event before you went!!!! It's your fault!" This from someone who grabbed it by cell phone whilst sitting across the table from me!) AARGH!!! (Not to mention my pink flamingo (camoed) still sitting at a bar in New Hampshire...)

And, thus, I suggest a concise but definitive paragraph on the cache page detailing the proper way to drop, and retrieve travel bugs from the event.

Good luck.

2.2k · January 31, 2009

The two coins my wife got me for X-mas however are my precious and I will love them and pet them and put them under my pillow to keep them safe from the filthy hobbitses.

This is not really germane to the point of the OP, but I love love LOVE this (I also call my favorite coins "my Precious"). From now on, I will refer to all geocoin and TB thieves as "filthy hobbitses". : )

Now I will read the rest of the threadses. : )

2.2k · January 31, 2009

I like the suggestion of education. Like having a TB panel, to talk about TB issues, to educate about logging, and then perhaps to distribute the bugs that want to go places.

The other idea that I had was to distribute scrip (slips of money-like paper with bogus number or colors on them, Monopoly money, or something) and then have a TB "auction". Announce the TB's name and mission and have people "bid" on them. That way, you can surreptitiously keep a list of who gets what by tracking who "wins" each bug. Keep the ones that no one "buys" and distribute them to local caches when the event is over.

I don't know if this would work, but perhaps in the excitement and "fun" of an activity of this, people will take more interest and ownership in the bug they have "bought". (Though I would not want to get the impression that people have actually bought them; rather, what they're buying is the honor of moving the bug along and being part of the bug's history). Has anyone ever tried anything like this?

8.6k · January 31, 2009

The following procedure is used at some of our local events here in south Wales. It requires a few dedicated souls, with clear and accurate hand-writing, who are willing to commit time to the Trackables Table and it requires the patience and co-operation of those bringing items to the event. It works something like this...

A few hours before the event starts they print off a list of all the trackables which have been logged into the event.

As folks arrive they stand at the table to hand in their trackable items:

Each item gets ticked off on the printed list to show it's been received.

Each item gets a label tied to it, or placed into its plastic bag - on each label the helpers write the tracking number of the item and its mission (if known).

The items are laid out all over the table so that they can be clearly seen and their missions read.

If a cacher sees an item they would particularly like to take they can 'reserve it' by writing their caching name on the label.

When folks are leaving and want to take the trackable items they just pick up the trackable from the table, write their caching name onto the label and hand it in to the helpers at the table who keep them all safe.

I know many will read all that and think, "What a lot of fuss and bother!" and yes, it is. But it works well if you can find enough volunteers to help out with it.

MrsB

22k · February 1, 2009

I know many will read all that and think, "What a lot of fuss and bother!" and yes, it is. But it works well if you can find enough volunteers to help out with it.

MrsB

I think - did it help?

Does it?

February 1, 2009

I saw recently at an event a post by the cache host what he did to help with TB's and coin's so they where "check" out as they left.

He made up a list of all the trackable's the morning of the event. As they got dropped off at the table he wrote down who brought them. they where all placed on the table for people to discover if they wanted. Then he made a check out system. By writing down as people where leaving who was taking the bug's. The left over bug's that nobody took he took and left in caches over the next couple of day's.

A day after the event everybug was logged out of the event. It was set up so well, the process really didn't add much extra to the event.

Just something I saw done not too long ago and it seemed like it worked well.

8.6k · February 1, 2009

I know many will read all that and think, "What a lot of fuss and bother!" and yes, it is. But it works well if you can find enough volunteers to help out with it.

MrsB

I think - did it help?

Does it?

(referring to my post #25)

Yes. The labels are kept for reference in case 6 weeks later someone contacts the Event organiser saying, "My TB is still logged into your Event - Have you any idea where it is?" If it's been handed in at the table then there's a label to show what's happened to it. If there's no label then at least the organiser can say, "Well, it never got handed in officially - perhaps you should contact the last cacher who had it and ask them about it."

Of course, it can't take account of the 'casual encounters' of trackables and cachers - items that are never logged into the event and are just passed over by hand - but otherwise it seems to work very well. As far as I know they haven't had any trackables 'disappear' unaccounted for at the last few events.

I've only seen this procedure done at relatively small events (30 - 50 people): It may be too much to organise where larger numbers are expected.

MrsB

10.1k · February 2, 2009

Knowing how neurotic I get about TBs at events, wish me luck. One of our TBs is at an event in Bonn, that started this evening at 6. Last finder was hoping to find someone to bring her back to the US.

February 3, 2009

The following procedure is used at some of our local events here in south Wales. It requires a few dedicated souls, with clear and accurate hand-writing, who are willing to commit time to the Trackables Table and it requires the patience and co-operation of those bringing items to the event. It works something like this...

A few hours before the event starts they print off a list of all the trackables which have been logged into the event.

As folks arrive they stand at the table to hand in their trackable items:

Each item gets ticked off on the printed list to show it's been received.

Each item gets a label tied to it, or placed into its plastic bag - on each label the helpers write the tracking number of the item and its mission (if known).

The items are laid out all over the table so that they can be clearly seen and their missions read.

If a cacher sees an item they would particularly like to take they can 'reserve it' by writing their caching name on the label.

When folks are leaving and want to take the trackable items they just pick up the trackable from the table, write their caching name onto the label and hand it in to the helpers at the table who keep them all safe.

I know many will read all that and think, "What a lot of fuss and bother!" and yes, it is. But it works well if you can find enough volunteers to help out with it.

MrsB

Might seem like a lot of fuss, also some cost in providing the print outs, bags, etc...BUT it makes alot of sense and if I am ever involved in planning an event, I will be using this or something close to it.

Thanks for the great advice MrsB!!!

February 18, 2009

For me the primary danger zones for my trackables (always have 30 missing) are new cachers and events. Do I take other peoples trackables to events ... yes, do I watch out for them .... yes again but there are limits. With all my missing bugs will I still release more ... yes of course it is a fun part of caching and of course there is always the anticipation of one coming back to life after a year or more. Happens regularly, I do wonder what they have been up to. :laughing:

How can I eliminate/reduce lost bugs at an event I'm hosting?

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