Cache archiving etiquette

[+Simply Paul]

I'm curious as to what others think is ok and what isn't when a cache gets canned. My thoughts below apply equally to a single cache as they do to a mass archiving, so please don't go reading too much into this

 

i) Collect the box/es if still in place in a reasonable length of time to avoid it/them becoming geo-litter, or accept another cacher's help to do so. (Bonus points for being 'LTF'?)

 

ii) Previously adopted caches should be offered up for further adoption rather than put away for good. Even the box has vanished, and/or the location compromised, a new owner could replace it and/or move it a little to bring it back online. Historic caches are important and shouldn't be archived, especially if new rules would mean it'd be impossible to reanimate them.

 

iii) Grandfathered cache types; Webcams and Virtuals should be left active IF AT ALL POSSIBLE! They can't be adopted across so if there's any way they can be left live, even if that means changing the cacher's account email to send them to someone else to monitor (a sort of unofficial adoption), putting an email link on the page or finding other crafty methods of extending their life beyond the cacher who sent them.

 

iv) Give a reason for the cache being archived in the log. This is less of an issue for events (which don't always get closed down within the 4 weeks Groundspeak like anyway) but people do like to know why a cache has gone, especially if it was important enough for them to add to their watchlist.

 

v) Offering caches for adoption is a two edged sword. On the one hand, it protects a cache listing (which may or may not be worth 'saving'). On the other, it leaves the area taken up with an older cache which may have been logged by anyone who's likely to look for it (locals on a big multi, for example) when it could go, and be replaced by something else. This is a tricky one I guess.

 

vi) I'm sure there are other aspects to archiving I've forgotten to mention, so if you can add to this 'Best Practice' list, or have any other ideas for things I've missed, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Thanks

[+Jacobite]

I'm curious as to what others think is ok and what isn't when a cache gets canned. My thoughts below apply equally to a single cache as they do to a mass archiving, so please don't go reading too much into this

 

i) Collect the box/es if still in place in a reasonable length of time to avoid it/them becoming geo-litter, or accept another cacher's help to do so. (Bonus points for being 'LTF'?)

 

ii) Previously adopted caches should be offered up for further adoption rather than put away for good. Even the box has vanished, and/or the location compromised, a new owner could replace it and/or move it a little to bring it back online. Historic caches are important and shouldn't be archived, especially if new rules would mean it'd be impossible to reanimate them.

 

iii) Grandfathered cache types; Webcams and Virtuals should be left active IF AT ALL POSSIBLE! They can't be adopted across so if there's any way they can be left live, even if that means changing the cacher's account email to send them to someone else to monitor (a sort of unofficial adoption), putting an email link on the page or finding other crafty methods of extending their life beyond the cacher who sent them.

 

iv) Give a reason for the cache being archived in the log. This is less of an issue for events (which don't always get closed down within the 4 weeks Groundspeak like anyway) but people do like to know why a cache has gone, especially if it was important enough for them to add to their watchlist.

 

v) Offering caches for adoption is a two edged sword. On the one hand, it protects a cache listing (which may or may not be worth 'saving'). On the other, it leaves the area taken up with an older cache which may have been logged by anyone who's likely to look for it (locals on a big multi, for example) when it could go, and be replaced by something else. This is a tricky one I guess.

 

vi) I'm sure there are other aspects to archiving I've forgotten to mention, so if you can add to this 'Best Practice' list, or have any other ideas for things I've missed, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Thanks

 

A few quick answers to Paul's questions.

 

i) I don't need to collect the caches, they are still active and listed else where.

 

ii) I had two caches that I adopted. The owner intended them to be listed on GC.com, and I was unable to contact him, so I thought it only fair that they be adopted by another GC.com member (Which is done).

 

iii) I've not got any of these types of caches, but if I had they would have came with me.

 

iv) I did give a reason (of sorts) in the archive logs, but not the one should have given (the one I should have given would have breached GSP guidelines and resulted in a instant ban).

 

v) Good Point! As far a GSP are concerned, the areas that my caches are in are open to new GSP caches being placed there. GSP takes no account of existing non-GSP caches that are already in place.

However, I will continue to respect the proximity of ALL caches when placing new caches. (Because it's easy for me to check)

 

vi) I've got a few points to add here, but I'm not finished reading through this weeks hate mail yet, so I'll add them at a later date.

 

Bed Time!

[+maxkim]

The only extra point would raise is that of giving notice, esp. on puzzle caches. There may be cachers out there who have solved / almost solved them and to loose out without notice is a bit thick. I did this on one of ours recently and received two emails asking for an extention to the archive date.

Totally agree about the adoption of virts and webcams, although I was sure that they can still be adopted if the owner offers them, I unnderstood it is forced adoptions which are now not done???? MaxKim.

[+Icenians]

I'm curious as to what others think is ok and what isn't when a cache gets canned. My thoughts below apply equally to a single cache as they do to a mass archiving, so please don't go reading too much into this

 

i) Collect the box/es if still in place in a reasonable length of time to avoid it/them becoming geo-litter, or accept another cacher's help to do so. (Bonus points for being 'LTF'?)

 

ii) Previously adopted caches should be offered up for further adoption rather than put away for good. Even the box has vanished, and/or the location compromised, a new owner could replace it and/or move it a little to bring it back online. Historic caches are important and shouldn't be archived, especially if new rules would mean it'd be impossible to reanimate them.

 

iii) Grandfathered cache types; Webcams and Virtuals should be left active IF AT ALL POSSIBLE! They can't be adopted across so if there's any way they can be left live, even if that means changing the cacher's account email to send them to someone else to monitor (a sort of unofficial adoption), putting an email link on the page or finding other crafty methods of extending their life beyond the cacher who sent them.

 

iv) Give a reason for the cache being archived in the log. This is less of an issue for events (which don't always get closed down within the 4 weeks Groundspeak like anyway) but people do like to know why a cache has gone, especially if it was important enough for them to add to their watchlist.

 

v) Offering caches for adoption is a two edged sword. On the one hand, it protects a cache listing (which may or may not be worth 'saving'). On the other, it leaves the area taken up with an older cache which may have been logged by anyone who's likely to look for it (locals on a big multi, for example) when it could go, and be replaced by something else. This is a tricky one I guess.

 

vi) I'm sure there are other aspects to archiving I've forgotten to mention, so if you can add to this 'Best Practice' list, or have any other ideas for things I've missed, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Thanks

 

Left mine in place as it's listed elsewhere but I would add the one thing I forgot, GC travel bugs don't work well in non GC caches

 

Move them on.

 

Kev

[+purple_pineapple]

The only extra point would raise is that of giving notice, esp. on puzzle caches. There may be cachers out there who have solved / almost solved them and to loose out without notice is a bit thick. I did this on one of ours recently and received two emails asking for an extention to the archive date.

Totally agree about the adoption of virts and webcams, although I was sure that they can still be adopted if the owner offers them, I unnderstood it is forced adoptions which are now not done???? MaxKim.

 

AFAIK, grandfathered caches (ie virts and webcams) cannot be adopted, regardless of whether it is with owner consent.

[+Happy Humphrey]

It's a good idea to give notice of your intention to archive any type of cache. People often travel to an area as part of a longer trip and don't/can't always perform a daily check of every cache on their list. I'd recommend a temporary disable (with cache left in place) for about a month before finally archiving.

[+Simply Paul]

Ah, TBs, Geocoins and other Tracked Travellers! I know I'd forgotten something. These should be rescued and released as soon as possible, of course. If you'd be ill if you ever see another cache, they should be passed onto an active cacher ASAP.

 

Also a good point about notice being given- not always possible, but you're right, it is nice to be nice. Would a couple of weeks be reasonable? I suppose it depends on the cache, but as an average NOFA (Notice of Forthcoming Archival)

 

On Jacobite's key point (I wasn't thinking of any individual, but thank you to him for giving his take in it, and if the hate mail is coming via GS, he should be reporting it) when I said collect caches in, I was thinking if they'd become litter otherwise. Of course they can be listed elsewhere and are thus still 'live'. I'm not sure if it would be against GS rules (there was a time I'd have said guidelines...) if linking to another cache listing site (are these all commercial?) or even your own, non-commercial cache listing page from the GC archive log would be allowed. What is the official feeling on this?

[+Happy Humphrey]

Also a good point about notice being given- not always possible, but you're right, it is nice to be nice. Would a couple of weeks be reasonable? I suppose it depends on the cache, but as an average NOFA (Notice of Forthcoming Archival)

I suppose that two weeks would be a good rule of thumb for a minimum notice period.

I'm not sure if it would be against GS rules (there was a time I'd have said guidelines...) if linking to another cache listing site (are these all commercial?) or even your own, non-commercial cache listing page from the GC archive log would be allowed. What is the official feeling on this?

Hurley Lock is an example, although I don't know whether this approach would still be allowed.

[+The Blorenges]

This OP made me go and have a look at our list of caches, just to see what our "stats" were: 44 caches, of which 13 have been archived.

 

TBH, I'm not very sentimental about our caches: If we were moving from this area there are probably about 3 of them that I'd quite like to have adopted and they are a couple of the more interesting (IMO) multis and one puzzle cache.

 

When I've planned to archived a puzzle cache in the past I've logged my intent to archive it with a note, giving about a month's notice. I recently archived a short series of 3 with a bonus cache because the area was no longer as attractive as it had been when I set them 18 months previously and most of our local cachers had done them anyway.

 

As for caches which have been adopted by us: I think I'd contact the previous owners and ask them whether they would like the cache to be adopted on once more, or would they be content to see it archived.

 

It has crossed my mind occasionally that it would be nice if some particularly old and good caches could have an Historic Cache Preservation Order stuck on them... but then, who would decide? etc etc.

 

MrsB

[+Jonovich]

What about any paperwork/references in or on the cache container itself, that links back to www.geocaching.com? Shouldn't this be removed/altered to point at a new listing site if the cache is being migrated to a new listing service?

 

Jon.

[+martlakes]

It has crossed my mind occasionally that it would be nice if some particularly old and good caches could have an Historic Cache Preservation Order stuck on them... but then, who would decide? etc etc.

 

Maybe, like stately homes, they could be donated to the National Trust!

 

Personally, I'm not sure I get this idea of 'historic caches' and wanting to keep caches for a long time / ever. Surely, unlike a dog, caches aren't for life. I'm happy to archive any of mine if they're not being found much or if circumstances change. If the area's still brill, no doubt someone else will be along soon with a cache.

 

The very nature of caching is very 'disposable' in that you generally only visit a cache once. After you've found it, why should a cache owner have to devote the rest of their life to keeping the cache going? When it's archived the cache page is still there as a memorial. Maybe it should be easier to find cache pages of archived caches so that geocaching history doesn't just disappear. As the 'sport' grows, it might be good for prospective hiders to see if there was a previous cache in the area.

 

If a cache is archived, but the area is wonderful, there's nothing stopping you going back anyway. And if you do visit an area twice because it's great, on the second time do you really rummage in the bushes and find the box again, or just note the bush as you walk past? (Sure, visiting to drop TBs is different.)

 

I think caches that change after a few years are great - gives everyone another excuse to visit the same spot, and get another smiley! (Isn't that what it's about )

SPs points are good ones for when you are archiving a cache, but IMHO there's nothing wrong with archiving caches - fresh Tupperware!

[+Eclectic Penguin]

Sadly, most of the caches I've archived was because they were muggled and I felt that their location had either been compromised since placing or that they were probably not the best hiding locations in the first place, in retrospect.

 

When I moved area, I had 4 caches - 2 were adopted, one I forgot to adopt (and has since been re-established nearby when it died by the person I originally approached to adopt) and one was archived. I gave a week's notice for this one (that's about the notice I had as to the exact date of the move!) and duly collected the "trash" once it had been archived. Nobody had visited it for

 

With regard to another I decided to archive because of low traffic but mostly because people visiting said that the area had become rather unsavory with drugs paraphernalia being spotted nearby, I gave 1 month notice then left the cache there a while longer just in case. A few local cachers decided to bag it before it went.

 

Only in once case have I immediately archived a cache (later on to my regret) when someone emailed me to say that the area was imminently going to be renovated. This was many months ago and only now has a notice appeared on the gate stating the intention of making the place more accessible. Coincidentally I've just placed another cache very close to this location last weekend (currently awaiting review). It most of the same details in the cache description and even takes on the old title but its now also part of the Church Micro series (if it gets accepted).

[+The Blorenges]

...I think caches that change after a few years are great - gives everyone another excuse to visit the same spot, and get another smiley! (Isn't that what it's about )

SPs points are good ones for when you are archiving a cache, but IMHO there's nothing wrong with archiving caches - fresh Tupperware!

 

Despite my ponderings about the idea of an Historic Cache Preservation Order, I tend to agree with martlakes comments: Generally, I think it's good that caches should be archived at the end of their natural lifespan and new caches set, to keep this game fresh.

 

MrsB

[+Jacobite]

Sorry Paul, I forgot to mention the trackables situation in my caches.

They can't be tracked through my caches, but this has been fully explained on my site. But no doubt a cacher will come along at some point and plonk one in one of my caches, I'll nip out and rescue it, and get it moving from it's last known location (grabbed from the last cacher that had it) to save the stats getting messed up.

 

A very good point has been made about make cachers aware that the caches are about to be archived!

What I should have done (as has been suggested) is, disable the caches for a month, with a note saying that they will be archived in a months time, giving plenty of notice to cachers.

What happened is, I archived the caches and two cachers who never knew they'd been archived came along and found them, thinking that they were still active on GC.com. They contacted me wondering what had happened, I then explained the situation, and allowed them to log them on GC.com (which was only fair, as they never knew they'd be archived in the first place)

[+Simply Paul]

By historic, I was thinking of the UK's first few hundred hides. I'm lucky to have several surviving 2001 caches close to me, and several others set before I started caching in mid 2003. Where the line is drawn depends on personal factors I guess, but I'd certainly want to see very early caches maintained for as long as possible as places of pilgrimage, much like the First Ever Cache Plaque is in the US.

 

Other stuff, as a few people have agreed, may be rather less deserving of a HCPO and I think recycling an area once one cache has reached the end of its life makes perfect sense. In the past I've archived caches rather than put them up for adoption so that a (hopefully) quality area for a new hider would open, a new listing would appear, and I'd have another local cache to go and look for

 

Looking at Dakar 4x4's comment, that makes perfect sense; if moving to another listing site/page you'd want to update the info on and in the cache itself. Perhaps when doing a maintenance trip to ensure it's still up to scratch?

[+Alibags]

I agree with all of Paul's bullet points. This is a very timely posting as I was out this weekend doing some cache maintenance and I archived one of my caches. I have archived a couple more in the last few weeks and I have at least one more lined up for the chop.

 

I will always go back and retrieve the cache. My last three archivings were muggled caches and I was unable to find the box, which I found incredibly frustrating, as I hate the idea that I may have left geo-litter out there somewhere. I will try my best though.

 

I used to be quite sentimental about my caches, but now I am happy to zap them if I have changed my mind about the hide or my own caching ideas have just changed (or, lets face it, the cache is somewhere I cannot be bothered to go an maintain it any more!!).

 

I too would stress not archiving caches that you have adopted. The previous owner adopted them over to you to keep them going. If you don't want them, then I think you should offer them up for adoption in turn. I know of at least one historic cache which was put up for adoption, lots of people wanted to adopt it, but the 'winning' adopter archived the cache a bit later, because they couldn't be bothered with it, loosing an old, historic and popular cache. Yeah, you could go and put a new one in the same place, but it's not the same! I myself have adopted a cache from 2001 and reading the logs from when there seemed to be about 10 caches in the entire UK is very interesting. People drove 100s of miles and made a day trip to do this one cache that they had seen popping up.

[+vw_k]

Is it possible to change the co-ordinates of a webcam cache to another webcam if the original camera is not working anymore for some reason? It would be a shame to lose any of these grandfathered cache types.

[+Simply Paul]

Is it possible to change the co-ordinates of a webcam cache to another webcam if the original camera is not working anymore for some reason? It would be a shame to lose any of these grandfathered cache types.

Now that's what I call a cunning idea. Over 0.1miles would need Reviewer assistance, but I can't see an objection in theory. You could even say it was refindable/reloggable at the new location on the cache page.

[+Alibags]

Nope, you cannot do it, I am afraid. Grandfathered in caches are preserved in aspic... they can live as long as they are in their original form, but any sneaky wheezes to get round the rules will not work.*

 

* I refrain from voicing my opinion on the above, this would take the thread waaaay off topic (besides, it's all been said before).

[+Simply Paul]

Has anyone ever tried to relocate a webcam (or virtual?) cache. What if the virtual was at a statue, and in a road widening scheme, it was moved to a better location in the town. Couldn't the co-ords be updated to follow it?

[+Team Sieni]

I myself have adopted a cache from 2001 and reading the logs from when there seemed to be about 10 caches in the entire UK is very interesting.

Just read the first log ... "Left caviar" goodness ... those were the days.

[+careygang]

...I think caches that change after a few years are great - gives everyone another excuse to visit the same spot, and get another smiley! (Isn't that what it's about )

SPs points are good ones for when you are archiving a cache, but IMHO there's nothing wrong with archiving caches - fresh Tupperware!

 

Despite my ponderings about the idea of an Historic Cache Preservation Order, I tend to agree with martlakes comments: Generally, I think it's good that caches should be archived at the end of their natural lifespan and new caches set, to keep this game fresh.

 

MrsB

 

I agree.

Over here I have discovered a strange breed of cacher who go out of their way to maintain caches that are in dire need, yet whose owners have long since stopped caching. For some reason they just can't let go and allow it to be archived...

[+maxkim]

Is it possible to change the co-ordinates of a webcam cache to another webcam if the original camera is not working anymore for some reason? It would be a shame to lose any of these grandfathered cache types.

 

Just change the text to show the new co-ords, I assume the new location will be close to the old one, it would just be an offset webcam... no real change there then. Might not fit strictly with the rules, but would be fine with guidelines... MaxKim.

Edited September 10, 2008 by maxkim

[+purple_pineapple]

Is it possible to change the co-ordinates of a webcam cache to another webcam if the original camera is not working anymore for some reason? It would be a shame to lose any of these grandfathered cache types.

 

Just change the text to show the new co-ords, I assume the new location will be close to the old one, it would just be an offset webcam... no real change there then. Might not fit strictly with the rules, but would be fine with guidelines... MaxKim.

 

hmmm - you could put the new coords as additional waypoints...

 

in fact, you can have more than one additional waypoint - so you could have a set of coords for new more webcams -maybe dotted around the country - you only need to find one of them to log the cache!

 

...

[+Rosie's Rangers]

hmmm - you could put the new coords as additional waypoints...

 

in fact, you can have more than one additional waypoint - so you could have a set of coords for new more webcams -maybe dotted around the country - you only need to find one of them to log the cache!

 

...

... and call it YOSW (Ye Ole Surveillance Webcams)

[+Primitive Person]

Sadly, most of the caches I've archived was because they were muggled and I felt that their location had either been compromised since placing or that they were probably not the best hiding locations in the first place, in retrospect.

 

Exactly the case with one of mine - my first hide, in fact. It worked well for over a year, but was then literally used as a toilet by some idiot. I'm glad I discovered the resulting mess before anyone else did, so no cacher got an unpleasant surprise, but as it had been found and vandalised, I decided it was an unsuitable hide from that point onwards and archived it immediately.

 

It was never ideal, really, and I was lucky it lasted as long as it did - as I've gained experience at caching and got pretty good at it, I've realised it was a poor hide and I won't do one quite that obvious again.

 

Lee