Possible new type of find icon?

[+-= Dewski =-]

Here in central NY, there seems to be the start of a trend that is getting bigger by the month and I'm curious as to who I might talk to to suggest a possible "icon" for these specific caches...

 

Many people in our region who have reached there 1,000th cache, has a cache placed in their honor - a Golden Ammo Can! (See some examples below:)

 

 

 

 

The Golden Ammo Can is hidden, as is any cache, with the coords given only to the person that was placed for. *AFTER* that person has found the Golden Ammo can, then the owner of the cache opens the cache up to all th eother cachers.

 

I think it would be kinda neat to have a "Golden Ammo" icon for Golden Ammo Can caches!!!

 

Now, where do I post to get ahold of the powers that be???

 

-= Dewski =-

[+izce.nine]

Here in central NY, there seems to be the start of a trend that is getting bigger by the month and I'm curious as to who I might talk to to suggest a possible "icon" for these specific caches...

 

Many people in our region who have reached there 1,000th cache, has a cache placed in their honor - a Golden Ammo Can! (See some examples below:)

 

 

 

 

The Golden Ammo Can is hidden, as is any cache, with the coords given only to the person that was placed for. *AFTER* that person has found the Golden Ammo can, then the owner of the cache opens the cache up to all th eother cachers.

 

I think it would be kinda neat to have a "Golden Ammo" icon for Golden Ammo Can caches!!!

 

I think it sounds like a good idea. Though it is probably something best left to inner circles of friends.

 

Now, where do I post to get ahold of the powers that be???

 

-= Dewski =-

 

Wow for some reason my post didnt show. I blame my touch pad! I guess it would be cool, but at the same time hard to implement, and I'd rather keep it within a group of friends.

Edited August 14, 2008 by izce.nine

[+KoosKoos]

Nah, I don't see a reason to create an icon for an arbitrary milestone.

[+The Leprechauns]

I received my Golden Ammo can four years ago this month, and it was already an established tradition at that time. I don't foresee a special cache type being created for this. It's still a traditional cache, just with a delayed publication.

 

You'll find that Waymarking.com is much friendlier when it comes to milestone recognition. Perhaps that feature set will be extended to Geocaching in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[+flask]

i vote no.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Now, where do I post to get ahold of the powers that be???

 

You're asking for a website feature, so the website forum would be the place to do it

 

That said, I think Lep covered the history and facts, and i vote with flask

[+BoggyWoggy]

I just want gold. Give me gold when I hit 1000.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Nah, I don't see a reason to create an icon for an arbitrary milestone.

 

How is finding 1000 caches arbitrary. Maybe how many caches a specific geocacher has found means nothing to someone living outside the local community, and in many cache rich areas where there are well over 1000 caches available within a 10 mile radius it doesn't seem significant, but for many it's a significant personal milestone. I've met several of the people in those photos and know that it was a significant accomplishment to reach 1000 finds.

 

I don't think that a unique icon would ever be created for personal milestones but to dismiss the accomplishments of those that have put in a considerable amount of effort to reach a goal as arbitrary goes a bit far.

[+briansnat]

How is finding 1000 caches arbitrary.

 

Since the definition of a find has become arbitrary why do we even celebrate these milestones? For one person it means she found 1,000 geocaches. For another it means he found 1,000 caches or places that he thinks the cache might have been. For another it means he attended 10 events 100 times and another person might have found 1,000 instances of pocket lint and retirement cards.

 

Nah, I don't think we need a new icon for a milestone cache. It will just encourage expanding the definition of a cache find further in the quest for the icon.

[Dinoprophet]

Nah, I don't see a reason to create an icon for an arbitrary milestone.

 

How is finding 1000 caches arbitrary. Maybe how many caches a specific geocacher has found means nothing to someone living outside the local community, and in many cache rich areas where there are well over 1000 caches available within a 10 mile radius it doesn't seem significant, but for many it's a significant personal milestone. I've met several of the people in those photos and know that it was a significant accomplishment to reach 1000 finds.

 

I don't think that a unique icon would ever be created for personal milestones but to dismiss the accomplishments of those that have put in a considerable amount of effort to reach a goal as arbitrary goes a bit far.

It has nothing to do with the accomplishment. It's "arbitrary" because...why 1000? It's evenly divisible by 10, and it has more digits than all previous numbers*. Otherwise it's arbitrary. 1001 is even harder, why not that? Or 1111, that's much more interesting. Why not prime numbers, or squares? Squares are great because they start easier but get increasingly harder to achieve. Personally I like hexadecimal numbers. Celebrate however you want, whenever you want, but for the site to assign importance to a particular number...that would be arbitrary.

 

This comes from someone who made a small plaque for someone's 1000th find. And someone who's looking forward to my first Waymarking ribbon (which is still arbitrary. They could just as well have used 37 or 86 or 4 instead of 25).

 

 

* both of these are true in base 10, which itself is arbitrary, based on our number of fingers

[+KBI]

Since the definition of a find has become arbitrary ...

When did the definition of a find become arbitrary?

 

As I understand it, the definition of a find has always been whatever the cache owner and the cache finder mutually agree it is.

[+briansnat]

Since the definition of a find has become arbitrary ...

When did the definition of a find become arbitrary?

 

As I understand it, the definition of a find has always been whatever the cache owner and the cache finder mutually agree it is.

 

It became arbitrary when that became the standard. That definition by it's very nature is what makes it arbitrary.

Edited August 14, 2008 by briansnat

[+KBI]

I think it would be kinda neat to have a "Golden Ammo" icon for Golden Ammo Can caches!!!

I like the sentiment behind it, but I must also vote no on the new icon thing.

 

When I see suggestions for additional icons, additional categories, additional container size rankings, etc., I think of what has happened to the list of Geocoin icons and I imagine the clutter and confusion that would result if every other denotation on this website were allowed to expand the same way.

 

In general I prefer a short list of broadly-defined categories over a long list of specialized ones. Even with the short list, people muck it up. I can point you to a large park in Wichita where cachers regularly list multis as traditionals, traditionals as letterbox hybrids, mysterys as traditionals, traditionals as mysterys, etc. Too many people already use this website without ever really reading the basic instructions – there is even a current thread where a new cacher has expressed surprise that virtuals are no longer allowed. Adding to the complexity will not help.

 

What’s to prevent someone from using your new icon for unintended purposes, or just because they like the way it looks? Won't that take away from the intended purpose?

 

It’s a neat idea, but I see too many negatives. Sorry.

 

My alternate recommendation would be to instead create a spectacularly nice-looking banner to post in the cache description. Milestone cachers who log the cache could be invited to post a similar, matching banner in their profile.

 

Advantages:

• You wouldn’t have to convince the Powers to change anything about the website.
  
• It might be easier to control who uses the banner than the icon, depending on how you set it up. Here in Georgia, caches which are voted best-in-category are awarded GGA banners to post on their pages (example). I’m not sure, but I believe the banner is controlled – I doubt just anyone can post a GGA award banner on his cache page without being invited to do so. If Mtn-Man is reading this I’m sure he can elaborate.
  

[+KBI]

Since the definition of a find has become arbitrary ...

When did the definition of a find become arbitrary?

 

As I understand it, the definition of a find has always been whatever the cache owner and the cache finder mutually agree it is.

It became arbitrary when that became the standard. That definition by it's very nature is what makes it arbitrary.

I agree with you that one person's 1000 is guaranteed to be different from – and not comparable to – another person’s 1000. Every smiley is unique because every cacher, every hide and every experience is unique. That fact by its very nature is what makes each and every online find incomparable and unequal to each and every other online find.

 

I was only asking because you seemed to be implying that the definition had changed at some point. It “became the standard,” as you say, but as I understand it that standard has remained unchanged since the very first cache. You’ve been around longer than I have – I was just curious whether a previous "standard" definition had ever existed.

[+chuckwagon101]

Does....does.....does.....GULP!....(I'm getting all giddy here!)...does this "arbitrary" word mean that I can

ZOOM from my measly 30 catches....all the way....GULP! ....up to 1000 caches using the old "armchair" method and get me one them fine, gold ammo boxes?

 

I can be a............CONTENDER! Even if it is a bit.......arbitrary!!

 

Goodby shoeleather........HELLO LAZY-BOY!!!

[+briansnat]

I was just curious whether a previous "standard" definition had ever existed.

 

Yes, when I started this sport a "found it" meant that you found a geocache.

[+tozainamboku]

I think that it's nice to place a cache for your friend who has logged 999 'found it' logs online to use to log their 1000th 'found it' log. I am not suggesting that this person hasn't found 1000 caches either. Most of the time I've seen people who know a friend is hiding a tribute cache for them will stop logging their finds at 999 until after they find the tribute cache then log those cache online after they have entered their 1000th 'found it' log on the golden ammo can. So really this is seldom the person's 1000th find. More likely it's the 1005th or 1013th.

 

This emphasis on round numbers has little to do with geocaching. The point of geocaching is to have fun finding caches. Some people have fun finding as many caches as they can. Others prefer cache outings where they find only one or two caches. For people in the later group, it many take many years to get to 1000 finds. Yet these people may be active cachers who give back much to the geocaching community - hiding caches, maintaining other's caches, hosting events, mentoring newbies, etc. I prefer to measure geocachers by how much fun they are having, not by their find count. I'd prefer if Geocaching.com does not add more features to encourage emphasizing a person's number - there are enough already.

[+Stargazer22]

Where do you hide an ammo can like that so that the camo works? Fort Knox??

 

I'd vote no for an additional icon.

[+Moose Mob]

In some parts of the geo-world, the gold ammo can is presented to 1K cachers at an event.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

I'd have to vote no as well.

 

I'd still send along my congrats to anyone for finishing a milestone regardless of which one. think it's a great tradition and a really nice way for friends to recognize their friends' accomplishments even if it doesn't get an icon though.

[+Smokey Bear Collector]

I like the sentiment. I also would vote no as the cache type is still a traditional.

 

If they were to develop a new cache type based on milestones, then where would they start and end? A new icon for 100 finds? 1000 finds? 1500 finds? 2000? 10,000? The list would go on and on...and how could GS justify an icon for one milestone and not another? In the end, they would all be traditional caches anyway.

 

To document the achievement one can name the cache in anothers honor. And you can buy a milestone geocoin with icon from the various companies.

 

I like the sentiment, and admit it would be fun to find a golden cache. But I don't see the need for a new cache type icon.

[AZcachemeister]

Having some of your friends hide a Golden Ammo Can for you should be reward enough.

I'm sure those who have been so honored would probably enjoy having a special Icon as a reminder, but I'll bet my last set of AAs that getting the icon wouldn't be their most cherished memory of the event.

 

There are lots of other difficulties as well.

What about those who are about to find 1K, but nobody notices?

How do you control the delivery of the icon? The honoree would have to be the only finder, with the 'golden can' cache being immediately archived and then a new traditional created at the same spot.

The creation of such caches would need to be carefully monitored, or else I could just create a sock-puppet account to make one for myself.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Nah, I don't see a reason to create an icon for an arbitrary milestone.

 

How is finding 1000 caches arbitrary. Maybe how many caches a specific geocacher has found means nothing to someone living outside the local community, and in many cache rich areas where there are well over 1000 caches available within a 10 mile radius it doesn't seem significant, but for many it's a significant personal milestone. I've met several of the people in those photos and know that it was a significant accomplishment to reach 1000 finds.

 

I don't think that a unique icon would ever be created for personal milestones but to dismiss the accomplishments of those that have put in a considerable amount of effort to reach a goal as arbitrary goes a bit far.

It has nothing to do with the accomplishment. It's "arbitrary" because...why 1000? It's evenly divisible by 10, and it has more digits than all previous numbers*. Otherwise it's arbitrary. 1001 is even harder, why not that? Or 1111, that's much more interesting. Why not prime numbers, or squares? Squares are great because they start easier but get increasingly harder to achieve. Personally I like hexadecimal numbers. Celebrate however you want, whenever you want, but for the site to assign importance to a particular number...that would be arbitrary.

 

High school/college reunions which fall on five or ten year increments generally hold more significance than the years which do not.

 

Most married couples place a higher significance for the 10th anniversary of their marriage than the 9th or 11th.

 

Cities, towns, states, and even countries often have large celebrations for the 50th, 100th, or even 200th year anniversary of the date they were founded.

 

There are numerous other examples where 10, 100, or 1000 increment is celebrated to a greater extent than an iteration which does not fall on a "round" number.

 

As I said, I wasn't condoning the addition of a cache site for a personal milestone but only that personal milestones do exist and that 1000 finds *is* recognized in many geocaching communities as a milestone significant enough to warrant special celebration.

[+wimseyguy]

I received my Golden Ammo can four years ago this month, and it was already an established tradition at that time. I don't foresee a special cache type being created for this. It's still a traditional cache, just with a delayed publication.

 

You'll find that Waymarking.com is much friendlier when it comes to milestone recognition. Perhaps that feature set will be extended to Geocaching in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Congrats on the un-arbitrary anniversary Lep. I just checked the plaque on mine, and it reads 8/21/08 so I'll raise a virtual glass with you. Cheers!

 

We started the tradition here after seeing it in Nashville on our first visit there in April of that year. But we decided to add a twist-a really evil nasty multi was placed in your honor, and you had to complete that challenge before attending an event that evening for the presentation. Some of those graduation caches are still out there, but sadly as the interest in finding hard multis has waned, so has the interest in creating them.

 

Nope no reason for a new icon, there are already coins and perhaps waymarks to celebrate the achievement. Besides, someone who is really serious about finding 1000 caches can do so in a week in many cache dense areas these days.

[+KoosKoos]

 

High school/college reunions which fall on five or ten year increments generally hold more significance than the years which do not.

 

Most married couples place a higher significance for the 10th anniversary of their marriage than the 9th or 11th.

 

Cities, towns, states, and even countries often have large celebrations for the 50th, 100th, or even 200th year anniversary of the date they were founded.

 

There are numerous other examples where 10, 100, or 1000 increment is celebrated to a greater extent than an iteration which does not fall on a "round" number.

 

As I said, I wasn't condoning the addition of a cache site for a personal milestone but only that personal milestones do exist and that 1000 finds *is* recognized in many geocaching communities as a milestone significant enough to warrant special celebration.

 

Actually, I meant more that it was an arbitrary number because it may or may not mean the same thing to different people. Most everyone can agree that the anniversaries you gave are all based on the number of years...something that isn't arbitrary. (I'm sure there's some small minority that celebrates their 50th anniversary on the 50th week they've been married)

 

Do my 1000 "found it" logs mean that I found 1000 geocaches listed at geocaching.com? or do they mean I logged an event 1000 times to get credit for the temporary event caches? or do they mean I signed 1000 legs of multi caches? or that I logged 1000 caches I got near, but didn't actually sign a logbook?

 

All of my examples are accepted practices by some geocachers, but not by others...hence, the 1000 milestone has a personal meaning and maybe a meaning in a regional community, but globally, it's a bit arbitrary because as has been pointed out, a smiley just means that the finder and cache owner have agreed on what it means.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I vote no. Around here no one cares about milestones until you hit 3000. I guess that's because anyone can find 1000 lamp post caches within a year that that number is insignificant.

[+-= Dewski =-]

I'm glad to see that I got replies to my Golden Ammo Can post.

 

I'm a little disappointed about the general take on the idea. I guess that wasn't the viewpoint that I was expecting - at all.

 

It was mentioned that a 1000 cache milestone isn't any big deal. I honestly don't know of very many people that can claim that they have 1000 finds. While I would like to think that I am going to achieve 1000 at some point, I am a looooong ways off!

 

Some see it as having a Golden Ammo Can cache placed for someone is acknowledgement enough. And while that mey be true, it had virtually nothing to do with the idea of having a different icon for these caches. In other words, let's say "JoeBlo" finds 1000 caches and I put out a Golden Ammo Can cache for him in recognition of this. Now comes along "JaneNobody", who has 104 finds. She sees in the listings of caches close by, that there is a Golden Ammo Can cache that has been released. If she went to seek that cache out, she would get a Golden Ammo Can icon as a find. Just like a traditional, multi-stage, puzzle, event, mega, etc...

 

It would show a bit of "homage" to the cachers who really give this hobby a workout!

 

Cache on,

 

-= Dewski =-

[AZcachemeister]

I'm glad to see that I got replies to my Golden Ammo Can post.

 

I'm a little disappointed about the general take on the idea. I guess that wasn't the viewpoint that I was expecting - at all.

 

It was mentioned that a 1000 cache milestone isn't any big deal. I honestly don't know of very many people that can claim that they have 1000 finds. While I would like to think that I am going to achieve 1000 at some point, I am a looooong ways off!

 

Some see it as having a Golden Ammo Can cache placed for someone is acknowledgement enough. And while that mey be true, it had virtually nothing to do with the idea of having a different icon for these caches. In other words, let's say "JoeBlo" finds 1000 caches and I put out a Golden Ammo Can cache for him in recognition of this. Now comes along "JaneNobody", who has 104 finds. She sees in the listings of caches close by, that there is a Golden Ammo Can cache that has been released. If she went to seek that cache out, she would get a Golden Ammo Can icon as a find. Just like a traditional, multi-stage, puzzle, event, mega, etc...

 

It would show a bit of "homage" to the cachers who really give this hobby a workout!

 

Cache on,

 

-= Dewski =-

 

Your heart is in the right place.

 

The problem is that this would just open a BIG can of worms (with lots of folks lobbying for their own special interest icon) that grroundspeak would just rather keep in the refrigerator.