straight to the end of a multi

[+syfun]

There is a multi near me that has several DNF's over the last several months. The last find was November of 2007. My son and I went out looking for it (we were in the area for other caches) and also didn't find it. But because of the hints and a little research, I had a pretty nice hunch as to where the final was. We ended up not finding it, but after getting home, I looked at all the logs, and I'm pretty sure where the cache is.

 

So my question is: If we go back and find the final without the 1st stage, should we still log it as a find? A part of me says yes since I have seen some logs where people go out knowing the area where a micro is stuck to a light pole and find it without GPS and log that as a find. Another part says no since we didn't do the whole multi. Maybe part of my dilema is that we haven't done a multi yet, and this just seems cheesy doing it this way. Should we go do a couple of other multi's and come back to this one?

 

A couple reasons why we really want to find this is: It's a themed cash which we are into (sports), nobody has found it in 6 months, there may be travel bugs or geocoins (one of each maybe) stuck in the cache that need to be moved.

 

What should we do?

 

edited for spelling - sheesh

Edited May 20, 2008 by syerson

[CoyoteRed]

What should we do?

Go find it, log it as found, and blow raspberries to all the "losers" that failed before you.

 

Just kidding about that last part.

 

If the cache owner takes exception to you not finding all the stages and deletes your find, few will, then take it with a grain of salt and move on. I see the find as using your noggin to overcome, adapt, and persevere in the face of adversity which was the earlier stages of the hunt. If the owner cares anything about you shortcutting the multi then he should take it as a failure on his part and fix his cache, not delete your find.

 

Have fun.

[+hukilaulau]

Go get it! Get them TB's and coins movin'!

[+Pegasi]

Go get it! Get them TB's and coins movin'!

If you find the cache it's a find. If you accidently stumble upon a cache you've also found it, no reason not to log it. The log lets the owner know the cache was found, they may want to alter the hide.

 

I have found a few without the GPS, still found.

[+edscott]

I have found a few without the GPS, still found.

 

Yep, me to.. ..but finding Multis without a GPS is more difficult than finding a regular cache. It requires making a separate trip for each stage, then returning home to print out a new map with the next set of coordinates, or doing some math work and plotting some precise lines on the original map.. hoping the lines do not lead off the edge of the map. Because of this I always look for ways to skip stages if possible. The multis that simply give the coordinates to the next stage are just about impossible to short cut, but those that give a part of the final coordinates in each stage are often susceptible to cracking early. With coordinates like xx_xn.nnx by xx_xn.nnx only the n values are usually needed. The final is probably close enough to the starting coordinates to use the first 3 digits and the final one isn't really that critical on most caches. I often plug in potential solutions to see what coordinates are in logical or legal spots and which ones aren't. Getting a stage or two will decrease your error. If I can narrow it down to a 50 x 60 foot square or a 500 or 600 foot line, I'll head out and go for it.

[+joranda]

I have done at least two multis like that when a stage was missing. Sometimes you can read into the logs and figure where the final is. A find is still a find. Just sign the log then all is good.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Sign log, get smiley. It doesn't make any difference how you find the actual cache with the log book. Rescue those poor TBs, for goodness sake! It does sound as though the owner may not be paying attention, and stage 1 is missing.

[+Totem Clan]

As for me, I say..........

 

"Yeah, what they said!

[+Skillet68]

Last month I was visiting my sister in North Carolina. There was a multi near by that we wanted to do. It was along the side of a river in a park. There were caches hidden all along the side of the river path. When we got to the park there was a dog show going on. The first stage was surrounded by about 50 people. We went on and started finding the other caches along the river path. We looked for the clues for the multi while we were walking but never saw them. Got to the end of the path and headed back. It was then I realized that only 1 stretch of the path didn't have a cache hidden on it. (caches were hidden every .10) There was an area of .15 that didn't have a cache. Using the clue for the final stage, we found the final without finding the other 2 stages by going right to the middle of the .15.

[+syfun]

Thank you everyone for your advise and encouragement. We are just getting started into geocaching and we love it. One of the main issues I had was that I wanted to actually do all the stages in our first multi. So today, after my son got out of school, we went straight to a local park and did a three stage multi. Now that we have that one under our belt, I don't feel so bad about skipping a stage in the future.

 

As for the sports cache, we went back later this evening and searched where I thought it would be, but no luck. I'll try emailing the owners and see what they have to say. I find it hard to believe that both stages are missing. Especially since there are two other caches in the same area that are fine.

 

Thanks again for all your comments.

[+Bat-Bubba]

What should we do?

 

If the cache owner takes exception to you not finding all the stages and deletes your find, few will, then take it with a grain of salt and move on. I see the find as using your noggin to overcome, adapt, and persevere in the face of adversity which was the earlier stages of the hunt. If the owner cares anything about you shortcutting the multi then he should take it as a failure on his part and fix his cache, not delete your find.

 

I agree with this statement. If a cache owner truly wants all stages found, then they will add a feature to the cache stages that lets them know you found them all. I've seen lots of multi's that have simple verifications for each stage.

[+briansnat]

There is a thread over in the general forum regarding this very subject. The OP in that thread did what you are proposing and the cache owner was perturbed and deleted his log. I think most people in that thread sided with the OP in that if you find it you should be able to log it, but the cache owner is the ultimate authority. If it's OK with him great, but be prepared to have your log deleted if the owner does not approve of your method.

[Dinoprophet]

In my opinion it's a legitimate find.

 

That said, Tozainamboku made an excellent point in the thread that Briansnat linked: ask yourself why you want to jump to the end. When you hunt a cache, is your goal to experience the cache as it was created, or is your goal to find the logbook quickly and get the smiley? People cache for both reasons, both are legitimate, but you ought to know which is your reason.

 

The hides I currently have are hikes in a beautiful, hilly area. If somebody rents a helicopter and flies right to the cache, it's still a find, congratulations on the smiley, but they missed out on a big part of the reason I placed the cache.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Dinoprophet

[+syfun]

That said, Tozainboku made an excellent point in the thread that Briansnat linked: ask yourself why you want to jump to the end. When you hunt a cache, is your goal to experience the cache as it was created, or is your goal to find the logbook quickly and get the smiley? People cache for both reasons, both are legitimate, but you ought to know which is your reason.

 

My son and I have just recently started geocaching. We love it, especially the hiking and trail caches. I don't see us jumping to the last stage just to get the cache logged and get our smiley. But if we give a best effort at a stage, can't find it and manage to figure it out another way, I'm sure we would continue on. After reading the above referenced thread, I agree with most all that a find is a find. We are out caching for the experience and the time spent together. Others may find the challenge in trying to outsmart the cache owner. To each their own.

 

My concern on this particular cache is that it was found 10 times in it's first 2 months of placement, then nothing for the next 6 months. There are some DNF's logged from some experienced cachers. Assuming stage 1 is lost or muggled, stage 2 (final) could still be there. The owner gives two pretty clear hints as to where the final is. If I were the owner, I would appreciate it if someone were to post a find that said "hey, couldn't find the first stage, but the final is still there and in good shape".

 

We did go back last night and searched for the final but didn't find it. I then emailed the owner and I am currently waiting for his reply. Next time we go, we'll probably search for both locations again.

[Dinoprophet]

Makes sense, especially since you're not jumping to the end simply because you can.

 

Is the hider even still active? After 6 months of nothing but DNFs, there ought to have been a maintenance run and accompanying "it's still there" log.

[leifnordberg]

Quite a while ago I had a multicache that was set up. Several of the cachers mentioned by doing some extra research they were able to get the coordinates for the actual cache location. While I certainly didn't intend to allow for that and felt like it really wasn't in the spirit of the whole thing, I really just felt like I had screwed up and not them.

 

I say go ahead and do it.

[+Rattlebars]

Consider - you just turned a multi-cache with a difficulty of maybe 2 into a puzzle cache with a difficulty of 4 or 5. Nice work!

 

Log it and just keep silent about how you found it (unless you wanna brag a bit). But if there are that many DNF's maybe the cache needs maintenance.

 

Spell corrected by Google Toolbar before submission.

[+Team Black-Cat]

In my opinion it's a legitimate find.

 

That said, Tozainamboku made an excellent point in the thread that Briansnat linked: ask yourself why you want to jump to the end. When you hunt a cache, is your goal to experience the cache as it was created, or is your goal to find the logbook quickly and get the smiley? People cache for both reasons, both are legitimate, but you ought to know which is your reason.

 

The hides I currently have are hikes in a beautiful, hilly area. If somebody rents a helicopter and flies right to the cache, it's still a find, congratulations on the smiley, but they missed out on a big part of the reason I placed the cache.

 

Yes, but they got to ride in a helicopter!!!

Edited May 22, 2008 by Team Black-Cat