S.O.S!

[+Phil&Phil2008]

Hi all,

 

Dad and I have just been bested by yet another woodland cache, this is getting really frustrating.

 

Is there anyway I can get a straight signal when I'm under heavy treecover? Do I need to buy something better (Like a 60CX?) Or is there some trick to finding a woodland cache?

 

Thanks,

 

Phil

 

PS-This isn't just minor wobbling, we're going in circles!

[+Miragee]

I started caching with the Vista and found the same problem. Getting a newer Garmin GPS unit with the 'H' in the name, like the Legend HCx or Vista HCx would help the problem you encountered with the woodland cache. You don't have to spend the extra money for a 60Cx.

[vagabond]

Try holding it in the horizontal position that usually helps some

[+GO CACHN]

I also had the Vista and same problem. I just recently spent them money and bought the Colorado and have not problem with tree coverage. but the vista hcx works great I hear from a friend of mine.

[+Trucker Lee]

Give the unit more time to lock and settle when arriving at GZ. Take a bearing from two different directions before approaching GZ, then go in and set the gizmo down to settle while you start the search. Check back and refine the search.

[+Phil&Phil2008]

Hmm.. thanks miragee, yours seemed most helpful. (No offence to others, yours help also!)

[+froggybear]

I have a similar problem with my Garmin eTrex Legend HCx. Whenever I am in a wooded area, even here in the Buffalo area where there is no tree cover in the winter, my gps seems to be whacky when near GZ. The arrow points any which way. I try to follow the "distance to Cache" and make sure it keeps going down, but sometimes that has me going in circles. My fellow cacher has a Magellan Explorist 210, and hers doesn't seem to have this problem. I have also noticed that [b]after[/b] finding a cache, and going to "Find Next" the arrow often takes a few minutes to point in the right direction. Usually I know the general direction so I start walking and the arrow eventually adjusts. But sometimes, when I am mixed up, and/or haven't seen a map or a visual of where I want to go, I do feel like I am walking in circles.

[+gof1]

Hi folks,

 

Try keeping those units horizontal, like they are laying on the table. The type of antenna those use wors better that way.

 

You could try getting an external antenna if your GPS is equipped to handle it.

 

Don't try to do the drunken bee dance at ground zero. Instead at some point about 100-50 feet out look at the area you are approaching and start thinking like a hidden cache. Once you get within about 30 feet you are as close as you can expect the GPS to get you, put it in a pocket and start using "the force".

 

If you own a unit that doesn't have the full electronic compass feature you need to start walking before it will figure out what way is north, and what way to the cache after that.

 

Froggybear you are in my area, you found one of my caches today. Go on over to the NYGO site and ask. I know you'll get lots of hands on help there. Someone will be happy to go out with you and work on that technique.

 

New York Geocaching Organization.

[+Phil&Phil2008]

Thanks, Dad and I are going to buy a eTrex Legend HCx.

[+Harry Dolphin]

But! The dizzy bee dance is all part of the game! I went three years with my yellow Etrex. My Etrex Vista HCx seems to do better under tree cover. But, once you're within thirty feet (or so), the inaccuracies of the satellite/receiver will point in every which direction. Stop expecting the GPS to get you to within a foot of the cache. It is not that accurate.

[+briansnat]

Try holding it in the horizontal position that usually helps some

 

That's the key. It needs to be held flat, face up to the sky at all times. If you hold it in your hand dangling at your side, clip it to your belt, hang it around your neck or put it in your pocket you will lose reception under trees. You need to hold it flat, like waiter carrying a tray of beer.

 

If you do that it should work fine. I used a Vista for many years and it's still my backup and I've found many a cache under heavy tree cover.

 

Also turn it on well before entering the woods. Finally and most important, the Vista's compass needs to be calibrated every time you change your batteries and sometimes if it's been sitting around for a while. If it's not calibrated you will get strange readings.

Edited March 17, 2008 by briansnat

[+briansnat]

I have a similar problem with my Garmin eTrex Legend HCx. Whenever I am in a wooded area, even here in the Buffalo area where there is no tree cover in the winter, my gps seems to be whacky when near GZ. The arrow points any which way. I try to follow the "distance to Cache" and make sure it keeps going down, but sometimes that has me going in circles. My fellow cacher has a Magellan Explorist 210, and hers doesn't seem to have this problem. I have also noticed that [b]after[/b] finding a cache, and going to "Find Next" the arrow often takes a few minutes to point in the right direction. Usually I know the general direction so I start walking and the arrow eventually adjusts. But sometimes, when I am mixed up, and/or haven't seen a map or a visual of where I want to go, I do feel like I am walking in circles.

 

You don't have a magnetic compass in your Legend HCX so, you need to be moving at a fairly quick pace for the GPS to be able to determine direction. People tend to slow down as they approach GZ and the GPS doesn't know which direction it's going, hence the needle getting whacky. What I would do is backtrack about 50 yards and approach GZ at a brisk pace and it usually straightens the arrow out.

[+gof1]

beer.

 

Briansnat you need to keep your posts down to only the necessary length.

[+Phil&Phil2008]

I have a similar problem with my Garmin eTrex Legend HCx. Whenever I am in a wooded area, even here in the Buffalo area where there is no tree cover in the winter, my gps seems to be whacky when near GZ. The arrow points any which way. I try to follow the "distance to Cache" and make sure it keeps going down, but sometimes that has me going in circles. My fellow cacher has a Magellan Explorist 210, and hers doesn't seem to have this problem. I have also noticed that [b]after[/b] finding a cache, and going to "Find Next" the arrow often takes a few minutes to point in the right direction. Usually I know the general direction so I start walking and the arrow eventually adjusts. But sometimes, when I am mixed up, and/or haven't seen a map or a visual of where I want to go, I do feel like I am walking in circles.

 

You don't have a magnetic compass in your Legend HCX so, you need to be moving at a fairly quick pace for the GPS to be able to determine direction. People tend to slow down as they approach GZ and the GPS doesn't know which direction it's going, hence the needle getting whacky. What I would do is backtrack about 50 yards and approach GZ at a brisk pace and it usually straightens the arrow out.

 

Thank you! Yet more Briansnat wisdom!

[+Phil&Phil2008]

But! The dizzy bee dance is all part of the game! I went three years with my yellow Etrex. My Etrex Vista HCx seems to do better under tree cover. But, once you're within thirty feet (or so), the inaccuracies of the satellite/receiver will point in every which direction. Stop expecting the GPS to get you to within a foot of the cache. It is not that accurate.

 

Mate, my problem is, it doesn't matter wether I'm 30-300 ft from the GZ, its always wacky!

[+gof1]

Also make sure your batteries are fresh. My old Etrex Legend would go nuts if the batteries were even thinking of being old.

[Neos2]

Hey Phil&Phil2008, here are a couple of hints that may until you get your new unit (or in case you keep the old one and try to use it too while you cache together).

 

When I used my Legend, I had a couple of tricks that helped. I rarely had to do all of these things, but sometimes one or two of them were needed. Your vista should get at least as good reception as the Legend did.

 

Make sure you aren't "hovering" over the unit. It needs a clear shot at the satellites.

 

Yes, do keep it as level as you can--and at least a foot away from your body.

 

Don't try to use the compass page if your compass doesn't work unless you are moving. Try the pointer on the map page instead. I used to do this and I'd beat my husband to the cache every time. He liked the compass page, I preferred the map page.

 

Turn the unit on at least 15 minutes before you plan to look for the cache. I'd turn mine on and leave it on all day while we were caching. It seemed like the longer I had it on, the better it locked in the satellites.

 

If the GPS goes completely whacky, loses a signal, or just won't point anywhere--go back to the last clear spot you had (no trees) and let it figure out where it is again.

 

If the compass on the GPS just spins and spins no matter how you move, try looking near your feet. In some units, when you are right on top the cache the compass will do that.

 

Sight toward the cache from three different points. Wherever the GPS points the first time is "ground zero #1" Find a point to mark that location so you won't "lose" the spot it pointed to (tree stump, etc) and imagine that spot is in the middle of a big circle and you are on the outside edge of the circle. Walk about a third of the way around the circle to a spot about the same distance away from the original ground zero, and see if it still points to the same place. Mentally mark the new spot if it doesn't. Rinse, lather, and repeat one or twomore times from another spot farther along the outside circle. By now, you should have a much smaller set of points your GPS "liked" for ground zero. Start your hunt from the center of those points.

 

And one more--Lay your GPS down somewhere flat near where the cache is supposed to be according to the GPS at that moment, look around for that area for 5 minutes or so while the GPS settles. If you don't find the cache, go look at the GPS again. If it's pointing somewhere else now, try there for a few minutes. Just make sure to pick up the GPS again when you are done!

[+briansnat]

But! The dizzy bee dance is all part of the game! I went three years with my yellow Etrex. My Etrex Vista HCx seems to do better under tree cover. But, once you're within thirty feet (or so), the inaccuracies of the satellite/receiver will point in every which direction. Stop expecting the GPS to get you to within a foot of the cache. It is not that accurate.

 

Mate, my problem is, it doesn't matter wether I'm 30-300 ft from the GZ, its always wacky!

 

Do you calibrate your compass after every battery change?

 

Thank you! Yet more Briansnat wisdom!

 

That post only refers to units that don't have a magnetic compass. Your Vista does.

Edited March 17, 2008 by briansnat

[+Mudfrog]

We still use my older Garmin 76s so know what you are talking about when you say that you lose signal while under tree cover. The better sensitivity and color screen on the newer units are definitely on my list of things i want on a GPSr but user operation is more important to me and because of this, i haven't found a unit that i want to replace mine with at this time.

 

I run with cachers who use top of the line units and i can tell you now that allthough they get better signal under tree cover, they don't seem to spot caches any faster than me. I think that developing your "geosense" is the key to having a better find to dnf ratio. Let your GPSr take you to the general area and as you approach the area, start looking for places where you think the cache might be hidden. Woodsie type caches are usually easy since the majority of these hides are placed very similar. Look for that hollow in the tree, or that pile of sticks, pile of leaves, or a nice big tree where a cache might be hidden next to. I can't tell you how many times i have found the cache then watched as others were still too busy just trying to zero out with their units.

 

Remember that alot of these caches were probably put out using the older technology so even if you have the latest and greatest, it might not help as much as you think because of the fact that the original coordinates can be a little off in the first place.

[+Mudfrog]

But! The dizzy bee dance is all part of the game! I went three years with my yellow Etrex. My Etrex Vista HCx seems to do better under tree cover. But, once you're within thirty feet (or so), the inaccuracies of the satellite/receiver will point in every which direction. Stop expecting the GPS to get you to within a foot of the cache. It is not that accurate.

 

Mate, my problem is, it doesn't matter wether I'm 30-300 ft from the GZ, its always wacky!

 

Do you calibrate your compass after every battery change?

 

Thank you! Yet more Briansnat wisdom!

 

That post only refers to units that don't have a magnetic compass. Your Vista does.

My recommendation is to turn off the electronic compass feature when finding straightforward caches. It serves no purpose when you're simply trying to follow the "goto" arrow to find a cache...

[+briansnat]

My recommendation is to turn off the electronic compass feature when finding straightforward caches. It serves no purpose when you're simply trying to follow the "goto" arrow to find a cache...

 

You can set up the Vista (and other units) to turn off the electronic compass over a certain speed and kick in when you show down. That way if you are walking quickly and don't need the compass, it switches off, but it turns on when you slow down or stop and need the magnetic compass.

[+Happy Humphrey]

Thanks, Dad and I are going to buy a eTrex Legend HCx.

I have one and it's excellent in tree cover.

 

Obviously, it has no electronic compass so you have to keep moving to get the direction arrow to stay steady, but I tested it in heavy forest (tall, dense coniferous trees) on the side of a steep hill, and the GPS track going up the zig-zag path and the track back down an hour later were pretty much identical (and accurate).

[+Prime Suspect]

I have a similar problem with my Garmin eTrex Legend HCx. Whenever I am in a wooded area, even here in the Buffalo area where there is no tree cover in the winter, my gps seems to be whacky when near GZ. The arrow points any which way. I try to follow the "distance to Cache" and make sure it keeps going down, but sometimes that has me going in circles. My fellow cacher has a Magellan Explorist 210, and hers doesn't seem to have this problem.

That's normal with any GPS, once you're very close to GZ. The GPS is just correctly reporting where it thinks it is, at that particular moment. The amount of error hasn't changed, it's just more noticeable the nearer you are to the center of the error zone. Some Magellan units have an auto-averaging function that will kick in. That makes it seem like they are holding a steady position, but it's not necessarily a correct one.

[+Viajero Perdido]

It could be that your unit is having some sort of "brain fart" episode, as this fellow's unit did (it's a funny read).

 

You might want to do a hard reset of your unit. It's equivalent to rebooting a computer, and it's a more serious operation than just removing the batteries - a hard reset will remove all your waypoints and so on. But it might fix the problem.

 

You'll need to google for the magic keystrokes that reset your unit; it varies. Good luck!

[+Phil&Phil2008]

Do you calibrate your compass after every battery change?

 

 

-Briansnat.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

 

Does charging the batteries count, it does.. right?

[Mag Magician]

I can only post again what I have found with the Etrex. If you are in an area where satellite coverage is minimal, (tree cover or whatever) turn off the WAAS! Lower end units spend so much time searching for the WAAS satellites when they are not available, that they tend not to be very accurate. Both the little blue Etrexes will take me within 5-10 feet of a well placed cache, but I still need to be aware of whether the signal is strong enough to count on the extra memory the WAAS enabled mode is pulling.

[+froggybear]

Thanks for all the hints...carry it like a tray of beer keeps going through my head - I will remember that...I think I have been developing pretty good geosense. I probably get a little impatient when I am searching since I have been doing a lot of caching in the cold, snow and wind, and I keep hoping the gps will get me closer, quicker. Some of the areas I've been to seem to have a MILLION spots that would be good hiding places - our October storm in 2006 creating a lot of downed trees. I don't know what "calibrate" means - I mean, I know what the word means, but I don't know how to do it on my gps. I'll try looking at the manual, although I don't ever find it too helpful. Hopefully the weather will take a turn for the better, and I can try out all this helpful advice.

[+briansnat]

Do you calibrate your compass after every battery change?

 

 

-Briansnat.

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

 

Does charging the batteries count, it does.. right?

 

If you take the batteries out, you need to recalibrate the compass. SOmetimes you need to recalibrate if it just sat on the shelf for a while.

[+briansnat]

Thanks for all the hints...carry it like a tray of beer keeps going through my head - I will remember that...I think I have been developing pretty good geosense. I probably get a little impatient when I am searching since I have been doing a lot of caching in the cold, snow and wind, and I keep hoping the gps will get me closer, quicker. Some of the areas I've been to seem to have a MILLION spots that would be good hiding places - our October storm in 2006 creating a lot of downed trees. I don't know what "calibrate" means - I mean, I know what the word means, but I don't know how to do it on my gps. I'll try looking at the manual, although I don't ever find it too helpful. Hopefully the weather will take a turn for the better, and I can try out all this helpful advice.

 

You don't need to recalibrate a Legend. It doesn't have a magnetic compass. Recalibration only applies to units with a magnetic compass. The Vista, Vista HCX, Summit, Summit HC, 60CSX and 76CSX are units that have the magnetic compass.